SW Saga Edition Thread 2: The Sith Lords

[Hyena]

I am eight level.

While it's true that my character is as poor as a monk, turns out, he has the highest military rank in the party and can requisit Katarn-class medium armor, which is pretty awesome.

[kreenlover]

While it's true that mine character is as poor as a monk, turns out, he's has the highest military rank in the party and can requisit Katarn-class medium armor, which is pretty awesome.

Oh god that Katarn armour. That is one of my favourite thing out there, not only because it comes from Republic Commando

[Sidmen]

Oh god that Katarn armour. That is one of my favourite thing out there, not only because it comes from Republic Commando

It actually kinda annoyed me, because it should've been Heavy armor, not Medium.

Although it does look the most BA of any armor yet presented by Star Wars.

[Alejandro]

Always remember that Tech Specialist can be used on armor to boost it. Worked well for my PC. :)

[Mando Knight]

Rule idea:

Cost of the Dark Side (Rules for allowing but curbing Dark Side characters, particularly Force Users)

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If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will, as it did Obi-Wan's apprentice.
Vader... Is the dark side stronger?
No, no, no. Quicker, easier, more seductive.
-Yoda and Luke

One of the main balancing factors for the strength of the Force and various Dark Side abilities is the default rule that fallen (Dark Side Score = Wis) characters automatically become NPCs. However, some tables may wish to allow Dark Siders in their game, or even play a game where the Dark Side is the focus. In such a case, if the GM wishes to curb rampant abuse of the Dark Side (or give advantages to the Light Side as it valiantly opposes the Dark), the following measures are suggested. Most of these suggestions are for player characters only, as the players are assumed to be the mitigating force against Dark Side antagonists.

Balance to the Force: Whenever a character commits an action that would increase his Dark Side score (even if his score already equals his Wisdom modifier) and does not soon repent of it (by spending a Force Point to reduce his Dark Side Score), the GM may grant a free Force Point to a character (player or NPC) to be used only to oppose the encroachment of the Dark Side. The GM may allot as many such Force Points to other characters as the actor had gained Dark Side points.

When a character first fully falls to the Dark Side, the Force empowers a foil from the Light Side to oppose them. Though it may not come into fruition for years or even decades, this nemesis is a heroic character who will challenge the fallen character, and will frequently have the Redemption or Destruction destiny. This new hero will not necessarily win (in which case, the Force will eventually raise another hero), but should always challenge the Dark Side character, either in combat or philosophically.

All is as I have forseen: Destiny and the will of the Force tends to disrupt the plans of Dark Side adepts, though not always in the short term. Characters fully given to the Dark Side should not explicitly know their Destiny (although they may believe they know or have control over it), rather, the Secret Destiny option should be used. The results of the Visions talent may also be particularly volatile, inaccurate, or misleading if used by these characters. (The subtitle is an echo of Palpatine's incomplete foresight, leading to his demise over Endor.)

Mark of the Dark Side: Force Sensitives who immerse themselves in the Dark Side are often physically marred by it, almost always in an immediately obvious fashion. Any character not allied with the Dark Side is generally off-put by such a supernaturally wicked appearance, even if she does not know the true source of it, and any Deception, Persuasion, or Use the Force check used to influence her behavior takes a -5 penalty. This penalty can be temporarily mitigated by a successful Moderate Deception to disguise one's own appearance (as did Palpatine before the end of the Clone Wars).

[kreenlover]

I love those dark side rules!

As my table is a band of smugglers and assassins who work for the Hutts the Dark Side is an ever encroaching issue.

I am going to use these rules if you don't mind

[Mando Knight]

I am going to use these rules if you don't mind

That's why I posted them.

[Spellblade]

New Build Idea:

HOBO WITH A SHOTGUN! A.K.A. Circle Strafing Doomguy

Scout 3
STR:13 DEX:15 CON:13 INT:11 WIS:12 CHA:8
FORT: 15 REF: 17 (19 with Rebel Military Training) WILL: 14
Speed: 8 Squares (10 while Run Attack)
BAB: +2

Ballistic Scattergun: +4 (3d8+1)


Talents: Evasion, Fleet of Foot
Feats: Running Attack, Rebel Military Training, Fleet Footed, Point Blank Shot

Planned Feats: Zero Range, Acrobatic Strike, Rapid Shot, Combat Reflexes
Planned Talents: Fade Away, Swerve

Anything else I should look at for my hobo shotgun craziness? Story is only going to be levels 3-8.

[Alejandro]

Put some Soldier in there instead, and take Ambusher talents, boost your shotgun up to 4d8. :) And then add in Rapid Shot.

[Hyena]

By the way, can anyone exlain supression fire to me? Because I totally don't get, why it's so powerful.

[kreenlover]

So, suppression fire allows you to choose a single enemy.
The attack does no damage (I believe), and gives them the negative for one turn.

Improved Suppression Fire on the other hand (Legacy, soldier talent) is insanely broken. Everyone targeted by your autofire attack takes a -2 to attack rolls for one round. Add to Autofire Sweep and other fun Autofire weapons and you get massive debuffing abilities

[Spellblade]

So, suppression fire allows you to choose a single enemy.
The attack does no damage (I believe), and gives them the negative for one turn.

Improved Suppression Fire on the other hand (Legacy, soldier talent) is insanely broken. Everyone targeted by your autofire attack takes a -2 to attack rolls for one round. Add to Autofire Sweep and other fun Autofire weapons and you get massive debuffing abilities

Like what autofire weapons and stuff, out of curiosity?

And is there any way to increase magazine size?

[Mando Knight]

Like what autofire weapons and stuff, out of curiosity?

Controlled Burst for only -2 with Autofire (or no penalty if braced), the generally high damage dice of autofire weapons (due to being primarily rifles and heavy weapons), etc.

And is there any way to increase magazine size?

Ride an Aratech 74-Z (also gives you more damage than any other available weapon at that size).

[The_Snark]

Like what autofire weapons and stuff, out of curiosity?

The riot gun from the Rebellion book gives a bonus to autofire attacks. Burst Fire (feat, core book) gives you an alternate-attack mode for when you don't want to use area attacks; Autofire Sweep (feat, Legacy book) lets you hit a larger area. The Controlled Burst talent, already mentioned, is nice if you can get it. The Autofire Assault talent from Galaxy at War will let you brace weapons even if they aren't autofire-only. The Autofire Assault feat from the Legacy book (confusing, I know; I guess there are only so many names) gives a boost to accuracy and damage when hitting the same area over and over.

There's a fair amount of stuff you can do with autofire. And yes, the Improved Suppressive Fire feat is very nice, though I'm not sure a -2 penalty qualifies as "insanely broken."

[Spellblade]

After some figuring out the character with the rest of the group, the concept changed a little into an Autofire based suppression character. A little background is that she was a street urchin on a planet that has indentured servitude for people without the means to support themselves. An offworlder bought her contract (A ratfolk arms dealer, another PC) and now she is fiercely loyal to him, a bodyguard of sorts.

Are there any other feats and talents I should take a look at for a bodyguard type feel? Also...Intimidation. Is there any way I could be good at that with a negative charisma? Any feats or talents to look at there? I know it's based off of Persuade (yuck) but it does sort of fit her character.

[Alejandro]

There are multiple Soldier: Commando talents that are precisely about being a bodyguard, such as Draw Fire, Dedicated Guardian, Dedicated Protector, etc. There is also an Elite Soldier talent tree, Protector, that is all about this, just better.

[Xaragos]

Question: Do pilot checks work the same way as deflect and block with regards to being flat footed?

Example: For some reason pilot X is considered flat footed in the round, perhaps because he/she got ambushed or something to that effect. Does that negate the opponent's chance to try to dodge the shot using vehicular combat?

Follow up: If it does negate the pilot check, what about against someone who is using Juke fighting defensively?

Apologies if this is clear in the books, I just don't have them on me right now.

[Krazzman]

Our DM came up with a rather awesome houserule (at least for me...)

Everyone get's 2 additional "skillpoints" or trained skills or how you call them. But with these 2 points and only these two points you can take a cross-class skill and be trained in it (costs those 2 points).

I think it is quite awesome but I invested it in two more class skills which gave me 8 skills in which I am trained.

As such the character is done:
Kel Monras - Human "Jedi" 1 - Dark Side Score: 12
Stats:
Str 16 Dex 13 Con 13 Int 16 Wis 12 Cha 13
Feats:
Force Sensivity, Martial Arts 1, Skill Focus UTF.
Talents: Block (UTF check against attack to block melee attack)
FDef: 12, RDef 13, WDef 12
Equiment:
Up to DM + Selfmade Lightsaber (2d4 dmg, our of broken class, energy cells and a stun baton)
Invested Skills:
Acrobatics
Endurance
Initiative
Kn Technology
Mechanics
Use the Force
Perception
and I think Jump.

Going to see if we get along.

[Xaragos]

Our DM came up with a rather awesome houserule (at least for me...)

Everyone get's 2 additional "skillpoints" or trained skills or how you call them. But with these 2 points and only these two points you can take a cross-class skill and be trained in it (costs those 2 points).

I think it is quite awesome but I invested it in two more class skills which gave me 8 skills in which I am trained.

As such the character is done:
Kel Monras - Human "Jedi" 1 - Dark Side Score: 12
Stats:
Str 16 Dex 13 Con 13 Int 16 Wis 12 Cha 13
Feats:
Force Sensivity, Martial Arts 1, Skill Focus UTF.
Talents: Block (UTF check against attack to block melee attack)
FDef: 12, RDef 13, WDef 12
Equiment:
Up to DM + Selfmade Lightsaber (2d4 dmg, our of broken class, energy cells and a stun baton)
Invested Skills:
Acrobatics
Endurance
Initiative
Kn Technology
Mechanics
Use the Force
Perception
and I think Jump.

Going to see if we get along.

Has your DM seen the Background options for players where they can choose a special Event, Occupation, or Origin (aka planet) each doing something similar to what was proposed. Might be worth a look as the Background rules are in the books.

[Alejandro]

Generally, if someone is flat footed, they can't make reactions like a vehicle dodge.

And yes, I would just use the Backgrounds. Why reinvent the wheel?

[Krazzman]

Has your DM seen the Background options for players where they can choose a special Event, Occupation, or Origin (aka planet) each doing something similar to what was proposed. Might be worth a look as the Background rules are in the books.

And yes, I would just use the Backgrounds. Why reinvent the wheel?

Ok, where are they? Because we really only have the SAGA Core Rulebook and I don't remember seeing something like that.

Also the extra skillpoints were there because we thought that it were quite few and so she raised everyone by 2.

[Alejandro]

I believe they are in the Rebellion book.

And holy crap, do your best to get your hands on some of the other books (print or digital) ASAP. Some of them are jammed with great material.

Scum and Villainy, Rebellion, Jedi Academy, Starships of the Galaxy...

[Xaragos]

Please review my Imperial Starfighter Pilot build. I was trying to go for someone who was more of an offensive/military trained pilot. Starts out with evasion since that is almost a must vs projectile weaponry and then focuses on ambush talents. He is not a lone wolf per say, but is the type of pilot that pics a target and doesn't let it get away. Perhaps send his wingman in to engage the enemy in dogfights while he blasts them.

Tactics: Target enemy, declare him prime target gaining +2 to attack roll and 1dX damage roll, use swift action for opposed init checks to make flat footed, opponent then cannot vehicular combat block your shot, use rapid shot at no penalty (Trigger Work), do massive damage, reduce CT -1 (dastardly Strike) with the possibility of slowing movement by 2 squares, preventing opponent from attacking next round. Advantageous opening in case someone rolls a nat 1 for a free shot.

Ship to-hit roll: 1d20+BAB 17+ship int+2 starfighter+1 weapon focus+1 greater weapon focus+2 prime target+1 point blank shot

Damage: (assume 3d10*2 base) (3d10 + 1d10 (Prime Target) + 1d10 (Rapid Shot) + 1 point blank shot + 2 weapon specialization + 2 greater weapon specialization + half heroic level)*2

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Imperial Pilot CL 20

Medium Human scout 2/soldier 10/scoundrel 3/gunslinger 1/ace pilot 1/elite trooper 3
Init +26; Senses Perception +19
Languages Basic, Binary, High Galactic

Defenses Ref 41 (flat-footed 34), Fort 35, Will 36; Evasion, Vehicular Combat
hp 134; second wind +33/67; DR 1; Threshold 35

Speed 6 squares
Melee by weapon +16
Ranged blaster pistol +23 (3d6+10) or
Ranged blaster pistol +20 (4d6+10) with Rapid Shot
Base Atk +17; Grp +23
Atk Options Assured Attack, Dastardly Strike, Destructive Ambusher, Heavy Hitter, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Trigger Work
Special Actions Advantageous Opening, Ambush Specialist, Keep It Going, Keep Them Reeling, Quick Draw, Shake it Off
Starship Maneuvers (Pilot +26) I have you now, Segnor's loop, Skywalker loop, Tallon roll, attack formation zeta nine, engine hit, evasive actions, shield hit, skim the surface, snap roll

Abilities Str 8, Dex 22, Con 13, Int 14, Wis 18, Cha 10
Special Qualities delay damage
Talents Advantageous Opening, Ambush Specialist, Dastardly Strike, Destructive Ambusher, Evasion, Greater Weapon Focus (heavy weapons), Greater Weapon Specialization (heavy weapons), Keep It Going, Keep Them Reeling, Trigger Work, Vehicle Focus (starfighter), Weapon Specialization (heavy weapons)
Feats Armor Proficiency (light, medium), Assured Attack, Heavy Hitter, Martial Arts I, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Quick Draw, Rapid Shot, Shake it Off, Skill Focus (Initiative, Pilot), Starship Tactics (2), Tactical Genius, Vehicular Combat, Vehicular Surge, Weapon Focus (heavy weapons), Weapon Proficiency (pistols, rifles, simple weapons)
Primary Skills Endurance +16, Initiative +26, Knowledge (technology) +14, Mechanics +17, Perception +19, Pilot +26, Stealth +21, Treat Injury +19, Use Computer +17
Secondary Skills Acrobatics +16, Climb +9, Deception +10, Gather Information +10, Jump +9, Knowledge (bureaucracy) +12, Knowledge (galactic lore) +12, Knowledge (life sciences) +12, Knowledge (physical sciences) +12, Knowledge (social sciences) +12, Knowledge (tactics) +12, Persuasion +10, Ride +16, Survival +14, Swim +9
Possessions blaster pistol

Progression

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1 Scout
2 Soldier
3 Soldier
4 Soldier
5 Scoundrel
6 Soldier
7 Soldier
8 Gunslinger
9 Ace Pilot
10 Scoundrel
11 Soldier
12 Soldier
13 Scoundrel
14 Soldier
15 Soldier
16 Scout
17 Soldier
18 Elite Trooper
19 Elite Trooper
20 Elite Trooper

Any ways you can think of to make this better or perhaps reveal something I missed? Also, definitely willing to swap around Starship Tactics if need be. Thanks!

[Thrysierius]

Too long, didn't quote. :D

Seriously though I like the build. I've asked my saga DM Alejandro to make an NPC based off of this to fight. My PC has Starship Maneuvers: Snap Roll (x2) Ace Pilot: Vehicular Focus: Space Transports, Skill Focus: Initiative. I'm thinking this build would be an awesome challenge without having to go Capitol Ship Turbo Laser Battery crazy.

On a side note, Alejandro and I have been discussing an item that I picked up. The Hypoinjector Wristband (Unknown Regions page 40) as written can be horribly abused, especially in combat or against environmental traps. There is no definition of when it activates or how quickly it works, just that it takes a standard action to refill a dose and 4 rounds to refill the whole thing.

My suggestion to him was to rule that the initial effects of the poison/chemical apply, the wristband kicks in the following round though and negates any ongoing effects (assuming of course the wearer is not still actively exposed). This prevents the "I'm wearing X so I'm immune" type scenarios while still providing a benefit or reason to own such a device. What are everyone else's thoughts?

[kreenlover]

That sounds pretty fair.
I'd even go so far to say that you suffer it for a round or two and then the counter-agent removes the negative (but after a time)
Either that or what you said. Either one is fine.

[Seatbelt]

Starships of the Galaxy...

costs a hundred bucks. :P


edt: or it used to. Guess the price has gone down.

[kreenlover]

{{Scrubbed}}

[Echobeats]

{{Scrubbed}}

[Krazzman]

I think our Houserule is better than the "background" stuff (which seems to be from another system all together when I see it right, haven't really been able to check).

It's effectivly getting 2 more skills trained or one crossclass skill trained.

So far we have the KOTOR Campaign book on our iPad and the Core Rulebook in hardcover. That + a list that I received a link for really make for quite a selection of books. But we will look over them after testing the system and implementing them later if we see the need for them.

[Xaragos]

Krazzman:

I don't disagree. The GM giving you the equivalent of adding +4 to your intelligence to unlock two extra skills is definitely keen, though it can somewhat lessen the need/desire to take classes like noble or scout that give you more starting skill points at level 1. For me, even though it is a cool GM move, kind of dilutes the more skill monkey classes and makes more viable the pure combat ones. Jedi and Soldier in particular. So I think from a gameplay aspect it is actually hurting the game by watering down the utility of your skill focused characters. And remember, outside of some more specific applications...you can pretty much use any skill as a hero. That is the way SAGA was designed. Just not as well as someone trained in it. Backgrounds are just an option available to GMs and recommended as less overpowering than the Destiny system.

My 2 cents! Enjoy your game! I always have fun playing SAGA.