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  1. - Top - End - #241
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    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Re: SW Saga Edition Thread 2: The Sith Lords

    Well, I'm not sure how force light can become a genocidal power, but I'm really curious now.

    Those are cool powers. I guess I was just looking at force blast compared to move object, wondered what's the point of force blast, and got hung up on the core powers being better.

  2. - Top - End - #242
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    Default Re: SW Saga Edition Thread 2: The Sith Lords

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahrimon View Post
    Well, I'm not sure how force light can become a genocidal power, but I'm really curious now.

    Those are cool powers. I guess I was just looking at force blast compared to move object, wondered what's the point of force blast, and got hung up on the core powers being better.
    Plain and simple, Force Blast is a cone effect and can hit multiple targets, with the added bonus of knocking them prone. Move Object you have to have an object nearby and can hit 1, may 2 targets with the object.
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  3. - Top - End - #243
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    Default Re: SW Saga Edition Thread 2: The Sith Lords

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrysierius View Post
    Plain and simple, Force Blast is a cone effect and can hit multiple targets, with the added bonus of knocking them prone. Move Object you have to have an object nearby and can hit 1, may 2 targets with the object.
    You're thinking Force Slam. Force Blast is the single-target attack power from Force Unleashed. The damage scaling is worse and Move Object says the damage is determined by the check result, not the object size.

  4. - Top - End - #244
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    Default Re: SW Saga Edition Thread 2: The Sith Lords

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahrimon View Post
    Well, I'm not sure how force light can become a genocidal power, but I'm really curious now.
    You need:
    • a willing gm (this realy should not be allowed when it is not "story appropriate")
    • the distant power force secret (range: entire solar system )
    • 1 Destiny point
    • hatred or force light force power

    maintain for a while, and voila one dead(with hatred)/mostly dead (with force ligth, assuming a lot of people have 1+ dark side score) Solar system population, aka genocide level

  5. - Top - End - #245
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    Default Re: SW Saga Edition Thread 2: The Sith Lords

    Quote Originally Posted by Waar View Post
    You need:
    • a willing gm (this realy should not be allowed when it is not "story appropriate")
    • the distant power force secret (range: entire solar system )
    • 1 Destiny point
    • hatred or force light force power

    maintain for a while, and voila one dead(with hatred)/mostly dead (with force ligth, assuming a lot of people have 1+ dark side score) Solar system population, aka genocide level
    You forgot 5. Being ok with having your character instantly become an NPC

    Because murdering a Star System is worth more than a few Dark Side points
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  6. - Top - End - #246
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    Default Re: SW Saga Edition Thread 2: The Sith Lords

    GMs can waive the "any character whose Dark Side score equals their wisdom becomes an NPC" rule - especially in anti-hero games.
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  7. - Top - End - #247
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    ElfWarriorGuy

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    Default Re: SW Saga Edition Thread 2: The Sith Lords

    Quote Originally Posted by Waar View Post
    You need:
    • a willing gm (this realy should not be allowed when it is not "story appropriate")
    • the distant power force secret (range: entire solar system )
    • 1 Destiny point
    • hatred or force light force power

    maintain for a while, and voila one dead(with hatred)/mostly dead (with force ligth, assuming a lot of people have 1+ dark side score) Solar system population, aka genocide level
    How is it just 1 dead with Hatred? I thought hatred was an AoE so it's gonna be more than 1 dead since it doesn't discriminate, whereas Force Light only affects those with a darkside point and I'd say not even half the population should even have 1 much less a quarter of it. Say hello to the darkside if you use either however.
    Last edited by Vertharrad; 2013-10-15 at 03:17 PM.

  8. - Top - End - #248
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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: SW Saga Edition Thread 2: The Sith Lords

    Quote Originally Posted by Vertharrad View Post
    How is it just 1 dead with Hatred? I thought hatred was an AoE so it's gonna be more than 1 dead since it doesn't discriminate, whereas Force Light only affects those with a darkside point and I'd say not even half the population should even have 1 much less a quarter of it. Say hello to the darkside if you use either however.
    It's the parentheses messing upp your reading, sorry about that (it's one dead solar system population not one dead person).

    Given the things that can increase you dark side score you would claim over 75% of the population never did any of this (of an unspecified solar system as well).
    For insatnce: Nal hutta+ Nar shadda a non representative example, I would be quite surprised if the (playable living species) population of that solar system would not be mosty dead given both the direct and indirect damage caused.

    note: this assumes that non-heroics "can't" atone (since they lack force Points) and that many/most heroics have >0 dark side score
    Last edited by Waar; 2013-10-15 at 03:36 PM.

  9. - Top - End - #249
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    Default Re: SW Saga Edition Thread 2: The Sith Lords

    Quote Originally Posted by Mando Knight View Post
    You're thinking Force Slam. Force Blast is the single-target attack power from Force Unleashed. The damage scaling is worse and Move Object says the damage is determined by the check result, not the object size.
    It does, and you are certainly welcome to play it that way. I generally base Move Object's damage on the size of the object being moved, mostly to keep a cheese character from carrying around a bag of ball bearings and uses of Move Object. If you want to do big damage, you need a big object handy (or make one, by ripping something free with a good roll.)

    Hasn't ever caused problems.

  10. - Top - End - #250
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    Default Re: SW Saga Edition Thread 2: The Sith Lords

    Quote Originally Posted by Waar View Post
    It's the parentheses messing upp your reading, sorry about that (it's one dead solar system population not one dead person).

    Given the things that can increase you dark side score you would claim over 75% of the population never did any of this (of an unspecified solar system as well).
    For insatnce: Nal hutta+ Nar shadda a non representative example, I would be quite surprised if the (playable living species) population of that solar system would not be mosty dead given both the direct and indirect damage caused.

    note: this assumes that non-heroics "can't" atone (since they lack force Points) and that many/most heroics have >0 dark side score
    Oh sure bring up the cesspool of the galaxy and expect it to fly statistics wise...I would go with half most times more if the survival or societal conditions are less than ideal, and less if better than ideal conditions. Do I expect half of Alderaan to die when I do a star system Force Light? No. Rest of the star system...depends.
    Last edited by Vertharrad; 2013-10-15 at 07:25 PM.

  11. - Top - End - #251
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    Default Re: SW Saga Edition Thread 2: The Sith Lords

    Quote Originally Posted by Vertharrad View Post
    Oh sure bring up the cesspool of the galaxy and expect it to fly statistics wise...I would go with half most times more if the survival or societal conditions are less than ideal, and less if better than ideal conditions. Do I expect half of Alderaan to die when I do a star system Force Light? No. Rest of the star system...depends.
    I said it was a rare extreme, but then again the likely targets for force light +destiny point of doom would probably be.

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    personally I interpret the force light + solar system radius as an act carried out by a powerful fallen/falling "light sider" (otherwise you would probably use hatred insted) deciding to go and exterminate that evil faction (or head of faction) you are no doubt facing, no matter the consequences. And as such the rare hearts of darkness such as Korriban,Nal hutta or Coruscant (depending on era) would probably be the most likely targets

  12. - Top - End - #252
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    ElfWarriorGuy

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    Default Re: SW Saga Edition Thread 2: The Sith Lords

    How many lightsiders would have a reason or motivation to use Force Light on a star system(I would think very few since they take the civilians consideration into account) compared to how many darksiders would use Hatred on a star system(too many to count)? I would think most lightsiders would use Force Light in a few battles and be picky about when they use it so as not to hurt their own comrades...whereas darksiders would "light up" a star system either for fun, to destroy a powerful enemy force, as a frame up, or a panic tactic. Lightsiders tend to be more picky with their force use.

  13. - Top - End - #253
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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: SW Saga Edition Thread 2: The Sith Lords

    Quote Originally Posted by Vertharrad View Post
    How many lightsiders would have a reason or motivation to use Force Light on a star system(I would think very few since they take the civilians consideration into account) compared to how many darksiders would use Hatred on a star system(too many to count)? I would think most lightsiders would use Force Light in a few battles and be picky about when they use it so as not to hurt their own comrades...whereas darksiders would "light up" a star system either for fun, to destroy a powerful enemy force, as a frame up, or a panic tactic. Lightsiders tend to be more picky with their force use.
    Yes quite, which leads to potentiall targets such as korriban or Nal hutta to be much more likely to be hit by a solar wide force light than say alderaan. And for almost all populated systems you wouldn't be a "lightsider" afterwards .

    Now seeing as destiny Points are hard to come by, burning them for (in character) fun seems unlikely even for a sith.

    Note that the fact that this combination relies on willfull misiterpertation of a Power/a force secret, and that it shouldn't be allowed in most cases. Are both sidelined for the purposes of this discussion

  14. - Top - End - #254
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    Default Re: SW Saga Edition Thread 2: The Sith Lords

    I don't know, it seems like a useful thing to make a plot-point out of. Although even the nastiest evil Force users in canon so far have only really managed to take out planets, why shouldn't a game get in the spirit of the EU and constantly one-up everything?

    But yeah this is more something to give your Jedi an epic fall to the darkside or, if you for some reason wanted to, mechanically model Darth Nihilus.
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  15. - Top - End - #255
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    Default Re: SW Saga Edition Thread 2: The Sith Lords

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    I don't know, it seems like a useful thing to make a plot-point out of. Although even the nastiest evil Force users in canon so far have only really managed to take out planets, why shouldn't a game get in the spirit of the EU and constantly one-up everything?

    But yeah this is more something to give your Jedi an epic fall to the darkside or, if you for some reason wanted to, mechanically model Darth Nihilus.
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    Or the Emperor in the Jedi Knight storyline for SWTOR.
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  16. - Top - End - #256
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    Default Re: SW Saga Edition Thread 2: The Sith Lords

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
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    Or the Emperor in the Jedi Knight storyline for SWTOR.
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    That's just Bioware having to one-up Obsidian anyway, because someone way back in antiquity somewhere decided that the stakes always have to get continuously higher, and Bioware's kinda bad at originality.
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  17. - Top - End - #257
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    Default Re: SW Saga Edition Thread 2: The Sith Lords

    So, a medium concussion missile... I do know that, at least RAW, there is no attack roll penalty if you fire the missile at a character scale target. My fellow players and GM, incidentally, believe there should be a penalty, and we might houserule one in. Does anyone have experience with that?

    Also, the missile has a 4 square burst. Is that starship scale, or character scale?

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    Default Re: SW Saga Edition Thread 2: The Sith Lords

    Is there an official conversion scheme between character-scale and ship-scale size categories? Because that seems like it would be the most consistent way to go about that.
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  19. - Top - End - #259
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    Default Re: SW Saga Edition Thread 2: The Sith Lords

    Quote Originally Posted by Alejandro View Post
    So, a medium concussion missile... I do know that, at least RAW, there is no attack roll penalty if you fire the missile at a character scale target. My fellow players and GM, incidentally, believe there should be a penalty, and we might houserule one in. Does anyone have experience with that?
    There are vehicles with those kinds of weapons that only interact at character scale, but do not have such a penalty.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alejandro View Post
    Also, the missile has a 4 square burst. Is that starship scale, or character scale?
    Character scale.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sith_Happens View Post
    Is there an official conversion scheme between character-scale and ship-scale size categories? Because that seems like it would be the most consistent way to go about that.
    There is no conversion scheme between character and starship scales. Starship scale is excessively abstract, such that an Imperial Star Destroyer (completely) takes up exactly as much space as the Executor or Eclipse.

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    Default Re: SW Saga Edition Thread 2: The Sith Lords

    Quote Originally Posted by Alejandro View Post
    So, a medium concussion missile... I do know that, at least RAW, there is no attack roll penalty if you fire the missile at a character scale target. My fellow players and GM, incidentally, believe there should be a penalty, and we might houserule one in. Does anyone have experience with that?
    Try a -5 or -10 penalty (so it's hard to hit but you might easily do half damage)

    Quote Originally Posted by Alejandro View Post
    Also, the missile has a 4 square burst. Is that starship scale, or character scale?
    Character scale, in generall no area of effect weapon target multiple starship cale squares unless the opposite is explicitly stated.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sith_Happens View Post
    Is there an official conversion scheme between character-scale and ship-scale size categories? Because that seems like it would be the most consistent way to go about that.
    To my experience there isn't, since the size of a starship scale square varies (arguably due to terrain/obstacles). but there are rnage conversions for different weapons between the two scales (in the core book and in clone wars)

    edit:
    Quote Originally Posted by Mando Knight View Post

    There is no conversion scheme between character and starship scales. Starship scale is excessively abstract, such that an Imperial Star Destroyer (completely) takes up exactly as much space as the Executor or Eclipse.
    I would disagree about the "completely" part, I would certainly allow smaller friendly ships to occupy/traverse those squares and possibly do the same for bigger/same size friendly ships. (that is unless I missunderstod you)
    Last edited by Waar; 2013-10-18 at 11:18 AM.

  21. - Top - End - #261
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    Default Re: SW Saga Edition Thread 2: The Sith Lords

    Quick question that came up in tonight's session: can you use Rapid Shot when your weapon is set to autofire? Thanks

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    Default Re: SW Saga Edition Thread 2: The Sith Lords

    No, you can use Burst Fire though.

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    Default Re: SW Saga Edition Thread 2: The Sith Lords

    Can you use rapid or burst fire with starship weapons?
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    Default Re: SW Saga Edition Thread 2: The Sith Lords

    Quote Originally Posted by Echobeats View Post
    Quick question that came up in tonight's session: can you use Rapid Shot when your weapon is set to autofire? Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by Vertharrad View Post
    No, you can use Burst Fire though.
    RAW does not explicitly specify one way or another, but implies that you may by explicitly stating that Rapid Shot and Burst Fire do not stack (it would have been easier to specify that the weapon could not be set to autofire for Rapid Shot).

    That said, Rapid Shot uses twice as much ammo as a normal shot, and if you chose to make a normal attack rather than an area attack with an autofire weapon (without using Burst Fire), you still use 10 shots... which means you waste either 11 or 20 rounds with a Rapid Shot (depending on GM interpretation), as well as taking a -7 penalty to the attack.
    Quote Originally Posted by kreenlover View Post
    Can you use rapid or burst fire with starship weapons?
    Yes, though the latter still requires that you have an autofire weapon (most starfighter or transport laser/blaster cannons do have an autofire function, however). This also negates the penalty for not having sufficient Strength while using Rapid Shot/Burst Fire (introduced in the updates, clarifications, and errata file, replacing the Strength prerequisite).
    Last edited by Mando Knight; 2013-10-19 at 07:53 PM.

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    Default Re: SW Saga Edition Thread 2: The Sith Lords

    Quote Originally Posted by Echobeats View Post
    Quick question that came up in tonight's session: can you use Rapid Shot when your weapon is set to autofire? Thanks
    Yes, but with a -7 penalty to hit, no double damage on a crit, no partial damage if your modified attack roll is <10, (as well as burning iirc 20 shots per such attack) it is a very niche thing to do.

  26. - Top - End - #266
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    Default Re: SW Saga Edition Thread 2: The Sith Lords

    Quote Originally Posted by Waar View Post
    no double damage on a crit,
    It would be treated as a normal attack, so you would deal the extra damage on a crit.

    The niche is when your Gunslinger (or other character that uses Rapid Shot instead of Burst Fire) is stuck with a subrepeating blaster or other autofire-only weapon, but needs to deal more damage against a target with low Reflex.

  27. - Top - End - #267
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    Default Re: SW Saga Edition Thread 2: The Sith Lords

    Quote Originally Posted by Mando Knight View Post
    It would be treated as a normal attack, so you would deal the extra damage on a crit.

    The niche is when your Gunslinger (or other character that uses Rapid Shot instead of Burst Fire) is stuck with a subrepeating blaster or other autofire-only weapon, but needs to deal more damage against a target with low Reflex.
    Sure you can treat autofire as a normal attack that just uses 10x as much ammo, that is specified in the rules, but I assumed the situation was using autofire rules and trying to apply rapid shot to a 2x2 square area...

  28. - Top - End - #268
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    Default Re: SW Saga Edition Thread 2: The Sith Lords

    Quote Originally Posted by Waar View Post
    Sure you can treat autofire as a normal attack that just uses 10x as much ammo, that is specified in the rules, but I assumed the situation was using autofire rules and trying to apply rapid shot to a 2x2 square area...
    You can't. Rapid Shot specifies that you need to shoot at a single target.

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    Default Re: SW Saga Edition Thread 2: The Sith Lords

    Quote Originally Posted by Mando Knight View Post
    You can't. Rapid Shot specifies that you need to shoot at a single target.
    Then no autofire...unless you also use Burst Fire.
    Last edited by Vertharrad; 2013-10-20 at 11:10 PM.

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    Default Re: SW Saga Edition Thread 2: The Sith Lords

    Quote Originally Posted by Mando Knight View Post
    You can't. Rapid Shot specifies that you need to shoot at a single target.
    fair enough, now personally I would still allow rapid shot to be used with say a grenade launcher, and I see little reason to weaken autofire in relation to burst weapons even more. (great, another houserule )


    Quote Originally Posted by Mando Knight View Post
    and if you chose to make a normal attack rather than an area attack with an autofire weapon (without using Burst Fire), you still use 10 shots... which means you waste either 11 or 20 rounds with a Rapid Shot (depending on GM interpretation), as well as taking a -7 penalty to the attack.
    But in that case you would only get a -2 penalty not a -7 (see the normal: description for burst fire, counting it as a ordinary attack (except for ammo) means no -5 penalty for autofire)

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