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    Halfling in the Playground
     
    Chells's Avatar

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    Default Wemic as an LA0 playable race - 3.5

    The idea was to tone down a centaur like creature to LA0. The wemic from war-drum was a pretty small miniature for a large so I build a lion-taur. I figured that having all the disadvantages of a large but loosing the big advantages (large weapons & reach) should give me some room to build with.

    I would have like to add strength but I recalled somewhere reading that if the attribute +'s & -'s gave more attribute points then it was automatically a LA1+

    Opinions please
    Thanks

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Wemic
    Wemic are fierce hunters that roam the plains. Female wemics are masters of ambushes and strategy while the males are dominate leaders.
    Wemics have a body of a lion with a humanoid torso extending from what would be the lion’s neck. From head to rump, they are 10 to 12 feet long and when standing erect reach 5 to 7 feet tall . Their entire bodies are covered in dusky golden fur, and the tail is tipped with a brush of black hair. Adult males have a mane of long black hair that covers the top and back of the head and extends down to the neck and shoulders. Their underbellies are white. A wemic’s face is a mixture of human and leonine features, with a black or russet nose, gold eyes with catlike pupils, and high-set ears. All six limbs end in claws; the claws on the humanoid arms and leonine forelimbs and retractable.

    Racial traits:
    • Male: +2 Cha, -2 Int / Female: +2 Dex, -2 Cha
    • Monstrous Humanoid
    • Large Quadruped: –1 penalty to Armor Class, –1 penalty on attack rolls, –4 penalty on Hide checks, +4 bonus on grapple checks, +4 bonus on ability checks made to resist being bull rushed, overran, or tripped, lifting and carrying limits three times those of Medium bipedal characters.
    • Undersized Weapons: although a Wemic is Large, its upper torso is the same size as that of a Medium humanoid. As a result, they wield weapons as if they were one size category smaller than their actual size.
    • Unanimity: Wemics are singular creatures and so cannot use mounted combat feats, unless they are riding another suitably sized creature.
    • Space/Reach: 10 feet/5 feet.
    • Speed: A wemic’s base land speed is 40 feet.
    • Senses: Low-light vision, scent
    • Natural Armor: +1 natural armor bonus.
    • Natural Weapons: Bite (1d6)
    • Racial Skills: Wemic have a +2 racial bonus on Hide, Move Silently and Spot checks.
    • Frightful Roar(Male): Once per encounter a male wemic can make a demoralization attempt on all enemies who can see and hear him as a swift action with a +4 circumstance bonus. This is a sound based fear effect.
    • Pack Tactics(Female): When a female wemic is flanking an opponent, her allies that are not flanking the same opponent receives a +1 bonus to their melee attacks. Her flanking allies retain their normal +2 bonus.


    Level Adjustment: +0
    Last edited by Chells; 2013-09-09 at 09:35 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Flumph

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    Default Re: Wemic as an LA0 playable race - 3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by Chells View Post
    The idea was to tone down a centaur like creature to LA0. The wemic from war-drum was a pretty small miniature for a large so I build a lion-taur. I figured that having all the disadvantages of a large but loosing the big advantages (large weapons & reach) should give me some room to build with.

    I would have like to add strength but I recalled somewhere reading that if the attribute +'s & -'s gave more attribute points then it was automatically a LA1+

    Opinions please
    Thanks

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Wemic
    Wemic are fierce hunters that roam the plains. Female wemics are masters of ambushes and strategy while the males are dominate leaders.
    Wemics have a body of a lion with a humanoid torso extending from what would be the lion’s neck. From head to rump, they are 10 to 12 feet long and when standing erect reach 5 to 7 feet tall . Their entire bodies are covered in dusky golden fur, and the tail is tipped with a brush of black hair. Adult males have a mane of long black hair that covers the top and back of the head and extends down to the neck and shoulders. Their underbellies are white. A wemic’s face is a mixture of human and leonine features, with a black or russet nose, gold eyes with catlike pupils, and high-set ears. All six limbs end in claws; the claws on the humanoid arms and leonine forelimbs and retractable.

    Racial traits:
    • Male: +2 Cha, -2 Int / Female: +2 Dex, -2 Cha
    • Monstrous Humanoid
    • Large Quadruped: –1 penalty to Armor Class, –1 penalty on attack rolls, –4 penalty on Hide checks, +4 bonus on grapple checks, +4 bonus on ability checks made to resist being bull rushed, overran, or tripped, lifting and carrying limits three times those of Medium bipedal characters.
    • Undersized Weapons: although a Wemic is Large, its upper torso is the same size as that of a Medium humanoid. As a result, they wield weapons as if they were one size category smaller than their actual size.
    • Space/Reach: 10 feet/5 feet.
    • Speed: A wemic’s base land speed is 40 feet.
    • Senses: Darkvision 60ft, low-light vision, scent
    • Natural Armor: +1 natural armor bonus.
    • Natural Weapons: 2 claws-front legs (1d4), 2 claws-hands (1d3) and bite (1d6)
    • Racial Skills: Wemic have a +2 racial bonus on Hide, Move Silently and Spot checks.
    • Frightful Roar(Male): Once per encounter a male wemic can make a demoralization attempt on all enemies who can see and hear him as a swift action with a +4 circumstance bonus. This is a sound based fear effect.
    • Pack Tactics(Female): When a female wemic is flanking an opponent, her allies that are not flanking the same opponent receives a +1 bonus to their melee attacks. Her flanking allies retain their normal +2 bonus.


    Level Adjustment: +0
    While technically your stat adjustment line with the LA, your base characteristics do not at all. Keep in mind this character has 5 natural attacks and has a further option to consider itself mounted for dealing additional charge damage with certain feats and weapons. Also being large helps him dominate in combat maneuvers. Then finally you get Darkvision, Scent, increased speed, and a classic rage feat/skill trick combo. All this at an ECL 1, it is outright insanely powerful. A bonus in strength is the least of your worries. Remember, a Half-Giant has an LA 1 and it is still regarded as very optimal.
    I would at least treat this exactly like a Centaur.
    Last edited by Amnoriath; 2013-09-09 at 08:42 AM.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    Chells's Avatar

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    Default Re: Wemic as an LA0 playable race - 3.5

    Thanks Amnoriath. I was not thinking about the natural attacks. Dropped them down to just the bite. I killed Darkvision too.

    As for the mounted combat feats, is that from Forgotten Realms only or is that from a standard book. I could not find that rule. If it is a D&D standard then I will write it out. This race cannot take mounted combat feats.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Flumph

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    Default Re: Wemic as an LA0 playable race - 3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by Chells View Post
    Thanks Amnoriath. I was not thinking about the natural attacks. Dropped them down to just the bite. I killed Darkvision too.

    As for the mounted combat feats, is that from Forgotten Realms only or is that from a standard book. I could not find that rule. If it is a D&D standard then I will write it out. This race cannot take mounted combat feats.
    Lance is a core martial weapon that deals double damage of the back of a mount. Spirited Charge is a core feat that also deals double damage on a charge while mounted. You are probably thinking of Battle Jump which really isn't a mounted combat feat.
    Though I think just giving it an LA+1 by adding a strength and constitution would actually be far more acceptable as these bonuses well lend better to melee than a single hit die that could be bought back later.
    Last edited by Amnoriath; 2013-09-09 at 09:46 AM.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    Chells's Avatar

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    Default Re: Wemic as an LA0 playable race - 3.5

    I guess that might be the best way to go. How much STR & CON would you suggest?


    One more thought about LA0.
    I was thinking that a creature with all the disadvantages of a large and very few advantages would give me some extra to work with over a straight medium creature.
    Does the -1 AC & hit plus the increased flanks more than offset the combat maneuvers?
    I was thinking is does. Which is why I added the 10 move and +1 Natural armor. If Large is adding to my problem then maybe building this guy as a medium creature might be be safer.

    My logic was:
    • Stability, Skills, Bite & Roar/Pack-Tactics is ok for a racial basic
    • +10 move trade for -1 Hit
    • +1 Nat. Armor for -1 Size AC
    • +4 Grapple vs increased number of flanks is a passable trade



    Is the +10ft movement a deal breaker for an LA0?

    The thing is this group is very old fashioned. There is no buying back the LA. Forgotten realms material is not allowed. So I need something that is fair compared to core races. Also I was hoping to build something that was suitable for a non-fighter class.
    Last edited by Chells; 2013-09-09 at 11:03 AM.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Troll in the Playground
     
    PirateGirl

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    Default Re: Wemic as an LA0 playable race - 3.5

    Unanimity hamstrings these too much for me to like it. I know you need it for level buy off but I don't think these should be LA 0.

    Debby
    P.E.A.C.H. Please Evaluate And Critique Honestly. Being nicer and kinder doesn't hurt either. Note I generally only critique 3.5 and Pathfinder material.
    Please, please, please when using non-core material, cite to the books. There are too many books to wade through to find the one with the feat, special ability or spell you use.
    my creations in homebrew signature thread

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Flumph

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    Default Re: Wemic as an LA0 playable race - 3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by Chells View Post
    I guess that might be the best way to go. How much STR & CON would you suggest?


    One more thought about LA0.
    I was thinking that a creature with all the disadvantages of a large and very few advantages would give me some extra to work with over a straight medium creature.
    Does the -1 AC & hit plus the increased flanks more than offset the combat maneuvers?
    I was thinking is does. Which is why I added the 10 move and +1 Natural armor. If Large is adding to my problem then maybe building this guy as a medium creature might be be safer.

    My logic was:
    • Stability, Skills, Bite & Roar/Pack-Tactics is ok for a racial basic
    • +10 move trade for -1 Hit
    • +1 Nat. Armor for -1 Size AC
    • +4 Grapple vs increased number of flanks is a passable trade



    Is the +10ft movement a deal breaker for an LA0?

    The thing is this group is very old fashioned. There is no buying back the LA. Forgotten realms material is not allowed. So I need something that is fair compared to core races. Also I was hoping to build something that was suitable for a non-fighter class.
    Well, you have a bit of a dilemma. You have a centaur like creature but it actually doesn't gain any benefits of being a quadraped or being upright in any way(you only gave the benefits of being large). The only way I would say to fix this is have racial hit die so they could actually gain what you first set down without a whole bunch of racial feats. It doesn't set them back a lot frame wise, like LA can, but it does take away from class levels. Though I view this as highly acceptable as they probably have a pack-like culture and therefore probably are less prone to sedintary life-style and role specialization. While not intentional, classes represent different cultural specializations. Otherwise though you may want to abandon the centaur lion look for a bigger, alternate catfolk.
    You should also distinguish females and males a bit more possibly by adding feats.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Solaris's Avatar

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    Default Re: Wemic as an LA0 playable race - 3.5

    I created something similar with my Cervitaur, a deer-human tauric critter modeled after the centaur. When I posted it on here, it received fairly positive reviews (alas, I don't have the link to the thread).

    With that in mind, how about this as the basis for your wemic?
    • +2 Str, -2 Dex, -2 Int (male)/ +2 Dex, -2 Con, -2 Cha (female)
    • Speed 40 ft.
    • Medium quadruped
    • +1 natural armor
    • 2 claws, 1d4 each (maybe 1d6 if they're secondary) - and perhaps a feat tree that opens up the pounce/rank attack?
    • +2 racial bonus to Hide, Listen, and Move Silently checks
    • Frightful Roar/ Pack Tactics (as appropriate)


    Powerful Build is an option, methinks, at least for the males. Also, bonus points for having a dimorphic race where the female is the one with the Charisma penalty.
    My latest homebrew: Majokko base class and Spellcaster Dilettante feats for D&D 3.5 and Races as Classes for PTU.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Griffon

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    Default Re: Wemic as an LA0 playable race - 3.5

    First off, I have some resources for you.

    The Liontaur as LA0 PC race in the Wold, an daily online PF play-by-post game site.

    The Liontaur as a LA0 race for D&D3.5, on my own wemic site.

    Other D&D3.5 resources on my site.

    Large PCs are problematic because of the reach and the weapon damage bump, primarily. You've solved those problems here. The bonus to Intimidate is balanced by the penalty on Stealth. The bonus to grappling and other special attacks is an important benefit, though I will note that in Pathfider the CMB and CMD bonuses for being Large were nerfed from +4 to +1.

    That said, I do not think your proposal as revised is a game breaker. Personally, I prefer to think of liontaurs and wemics, like centaurs, being basically humanish from the waist up, so I would advise against the bite attack and instead give two foreclaw attacks at 1d4/1d4 damage. I would allow rear claw attacks after the PC takes a Rake-like feat.

    Hope that helps!
    Cayzle
    Cayzle's Wemic Site -- dishing liontaur stuff since 1999, a D&D blog since 2004, and a Web comic since 2007.

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