Atypical Neurologies in the Playground thread 1(let's try to keep this in one thread)

[NihhusHuotAliro]

Thank you for your kind welcome.

(Nice username, by the way.)

[Hiro Protagonest]

I have this thing called AD... AD... um...

(okay not really, but I know a guy who does. He forgets stuff a lot and one time he even said "your shoes are shiny" to a kid when explaining an archery shoot. )

[golentan]

I'm not sure if this is the place for it, but oh well. I'm Schizoaffective (suffer persistent delusions and depression), diagnosed end of high school. I started with the symptoms back... I don't know how long, but as long as I can remember. I'm extremely high functioning, and for years after I realized I was different from the other folks around me I covered it up, because I had seen the "crazy" people who talked to themselves on the street, and I knew there were people who couldn't function in everyday life who got locked up in asylums, and I was afraid that even if I didn't become like that (an ongoing fear in weaker moments) people would treat me that way. A valid fear, since I believe that I was wrongfully fired for my condition one time. So, I used a ton of mental energy sorting through which thoughts were and weren't symptomatic, and suppressed those that were around adults.

Finally, though, things got too tough to deal with by myself. I went to a therapist, then a psychiatrist, and I got diagnosed, and I got on meds. At first, they only caught the delusional side of things. Things improved, a bit, anyway. No medicine has ever "cured" me, but it's made it easier to deal with. When I went off my meds for a while in college, though, I tried to commit suicide. Just like in my worst fears, I found myself in an asylum. It was the worst thing that ever happened to me. When I got out, I limped on through college for a little while before dropping out. That gave me time to recover a little bit, and after a few years of minimum wage drudgery I returned to school and at least pulled an associates out of the fire. I'm still coping with my mental illness, and probably will be forever, but now I'm on track to become a veterinary technician, and things are looking up for me.

[theangelJean]

Hi everyone!

I'm a doctor with an anxiety disorder tending towards depression, as well as some difficult obsessive and perfectionist personality traits. So of course I spent about ten minutes deciding how to compose this paragraph, as well as arguing with myself about whether I belong in this thread (my "neurology" is definitely not "typical", but I'm also aware that "neurotypical vs atypical" is a distinction mainly used by people who deal with the autism spectrum). Anyway, I'll let others decide whether this becomes a thread specifically for the autism spectrum or for other psychological conditions in general.

I have these particular labels ... and I also consider myself to be a "success story" for psychiatric treatment. That is, I still live with anxiety and obsessiveness and perfectionism, but having had two major episodes since I was 20, I can say that right now I am well. Sure, I haven't been able to work for four years now (I haven't even been able to manage volunteer work one day a week recently) but over the years I've learned to manage my mood (with lots of help from my psychiatrist), to the point that between January and July last year I was able to slowly be weaned off my medication, and I've managed to stay relatively stable without meds since then. Of course I know that relapses can happen, especially as I'm expecting my first child in a couple of months, but at least I know that it is possible to live with anxiety, and still be happy.

So, if people eventually decide whether psychological conditions other than the autism spectrum are relevant to this thread, I'm happy to be listed in the first post to be contacted by PM to answer questions about:
- anxiety and depression
- psychiatric therapy and counselling
- medications and medication weaning (it's not fun!)
- personality traits that aren't full-blown mental disorders

All in a general sense, of course, I can't and won't give actual medical advice here. But as you can probably guess, I am biased towards psychiatric treatment for some conditions, as it has definitely worked for me. Having said that, I also understand that not everything requires treatment all the time, and that it's possible to live with who you are.

Apologies for the excessively long and pedantic post :P

On topic; so... it's pretty likely that I have some form of anxiety disorder and it's been getting worse and worse. My gender therapist recommended I contact an anxiety therapist and gave me a list of phone numbers... but it's been weeks now and I still haven't been able to contact any of them because I just get so anxious about it and I'm not sure how to handle the fact that I'm trans... (like, legal name wise and such.) And it's just, really frustrating me that my anxiety is getting in the way of getting help for my anxiety.

I know what it's like to be frustrated when anxiety gets in the way of ... well, everything. For me, just knowing it was the anxiety didn't help, in fact it made it worse because I was more aware of it ... But have hope, one day you'll be able to know it's the anxiety and get past it and go and do things anyway. It takes a while (much longer than I hoped, unfortunately). But getting help is a good first step!

Also, remember that when it comes to getting help, there is no such thing as "doing it wrong". Things will not always work out as planned, there is no perfect therapist or practice, and yes there may be times when things upset you, including name and gender issues. But getting in contact with someone is still a step forwards, and once you've done that they can probably help you to find a better person to suit your needs. I know that eventually, you can be brave enough to make sure people know what you need from them.

[Mina Kobold]

That's not late at all. I was diagnosed at 17. I remember getting diagnosed for Generalized Anxiety Disorder and Major Depression, too, although that was even earlier.

Funny how I went through all of my childhood with no one suspecting at all. That's not meant to sound bitter. But by considering Asperger, it made much light of my childhood and adolescent behaviour.

I see, I was under the impression that it was mostly diagnosed pretty early on. It must be a conspiracy! O_O

That, I was wrong, or we're both outliers, but a conspiracy makes much more sense.

That does sound like a pretty stressful situation. In my case, they apparently did notice, but didn't even know to consider Asperger's until a doctor friend asked about it. Maybe people just don't know much about it? ^_^'

[/Worse communication skills, GO!]

[Lentrax]

Hello, folks.

I have many many problems, beginning with depression. They then run the gamut from there, branching into egomania, severe paranoia,and probably many mor that I am not aware of.

I also have a five year old son with Autism and a daughter with selective mutism.

So yeah, wide variety of issues to talk about over here.

[AtlanteanTroll]

I have "Over-Foceusd" AD(H)D as diagnosed by the Amen Clinic in D.C. So yeah. IDK, I guess that's atypical?

The "symptoms" are as follows: Primary ADD symptoms plus cognitive inflexibility, trouble shifting attention, stuck on negative thoughts or behaviors, worrying, holding grudges, argumentative, oppositional, and a need for sameness.

So hi. May check in again.

[Moriwen]

I also have a five year old son with Autism and a daughter with selective mutism.

Hey! One of the main reasons I was interested in this thread is that my (much) younger sister has selective mutism. It's a little exciting to "meet" someone else in the same position, since it's pretty rare.

If you ever want to chat or whatever, I'm around here a lot and my PM box is always open. Hoping to see you around the thread!

[Nameless Ghost]

When I was growing up I reasonably often went through periods of refusing to speak, though it never lasted more than a few hours. There were a few occasions of wanting to say things, but absolutely being unable to speak, that stick in my memory. When I started writing this post I didn't expect there to be any mention of mutism in it.

Looking back it kind of surprises me that nobody ever seemed to question this or any other unusual behaviours I displayed (social reclusiveness, obsessiveness, reacting logically rather than emotionally to most things, and more recently bouts of anxiety - though these are my own observations) as odd.

Even when I went through a period of severe depression at university and stopped attending my classes and pretty much locked myself in my room for several months before dropping out the most that happened was to be asked on one occasion by a member of the faculty why I wasn't going to lectures; and to just be told in response, "well you have to", with no follow-up.

Which in my mind puts me in situation of being pretty sure my neurology isn't exactly typical but not having any specific descriptor for it. I'll probably be hanging around the thread (most likely just lurking), but hey anyway.

[bluewind95]

I was diagnosed with ADD, though I have a nagging suspicion I might fall into the autistic spectrum. But can't really say I have it if I don't have a diagnosis!

Mostly, the ADD gave me a big amount of trouble at school. I managed to teach myself ways to cope, though it was always a struggle!

[GoblinArchmage]

I'm sorry if this counts as thread necromancy, but this caught my attention:

Hey there! Mildy autistic (maybe asperger's?) person here

Apparently my parents always knew something was odd about me, and thought that it might be autism, but nothing was ever figured out for certain. I was not told this, though, so I had to figure it out for myself. When I realized I'm trans, I started following other trans people online, and several of them are autistic as well. Because I related to them so much, I looked into it and saw how amazingly well it fit me and explained things that I had always thought were different and wrong about me.

I haven't been diagnosed yet, and I'm not sure what the benefit of it would be. I know I'm autistic, I don't need a doctor to tell me it. Does anyone know if there is a point in seeking a diagnosis, as a (barely) adult?

Actually, yes you do need a doctor to tell you. Regardless of how much research you did, you probably don't have the medical knowledge to accurately judge whether anybody, let alone yourself, has an atypical neurology. Furthermore, I don't think that self diagnosis is ever really legitimate. I'm not saying that you aren't autistic, and if you think you are then you very well may be, but you can't just claim that you are without an actual diagnosis.

Edit: I'm sorry if this came off as confrontational.

Also, if this thread is for all varieties of mental illness and not just Autism, then I guess I'll just mention that I have OCD.

[Serpentine]

Mm, I agree. Thinking you might have a condition is a good reason to go talk to a doctor and have it confirmed, or find an alternative explanation. Deciding that you have one without having the medical expertise to know that (heck, with the expertise - doctors see other doctors, after all!) can be harmful, to yourself and to others. And if there's no point getting a diagnosis as an adult (which I'm not so sure about), surely there's equally no point claiming you have something without a diagnosis?

Starting to think I might be atypical somehow. I mean, my GP mum used to think I might be OCD or have Asberger's, and retrospectively I think Tourrette's (the milder cases, not the extreme swearing and outburst versions) could fit, but eh. With the stuff I'm thinking/worried about now, could be something, dunno what, but I'm probably just lazy and hormonal. *shrug*

[Temotei]

Yeah, there's a bias there you just can't get past. People see characteristics of disorders and relate to them. It's natural, everyone does it. You just can't make diagnoses based only on those.

[sktarq]

Atypical.....That about sums it up for me. Have not seen a doctor for my issues (except for the test with various psychoactive pharmaceuticals in a hospital to test which ones other members of bloodline may react atypically to-which turned out to be a considerable percentage).
After years of just being "weird" or "odd" I have had to deal with every Tom, **** (edit Richard), and Harry trying to tell me I had/have various ailments...Asperger's being by far the most common. The only one I have had was depression-badly enough that I usually describe as I would watch the ceiling fan for hours-get bored and so turn it on. But it would take returning to that point below suicidal activity (where you don't care enough to kill yourself) or a firearm to get me to see a doctor.
A but atypical....yeah I couldn't deny that with a strait face.
So Good-day-morning-afternoon-evening-nigh-whatnot everybody.

Hi everyone!...Apologies for the excessively long and pedantic post :P

Thank you for this post fragment...Its structure, placement, and tone amused me greatly.

[Castaras]

Question to those who have various anxieties - do you find that if you're under stress / getting anxiety quite a bit, you start finding other anxieties that you rarely get popping up more regularly?

Been having issues recently with my academic anxiety seeping into my social life, which is worrying.

[theangelJean]

Mm, I agree. Thinking you might have a condition is a good reason to go talk to a doctor and have it confirmed, or find an alternative explanation. Deciding that you have one without having the medical expertise to know that (heck, with the expertise - doctors see other doctors, after all!) can be harmful, to yourself and to others. And if there's no point getting a diagnosis as an adult (which I'm not so sure about), surely there's equally no point claiming you have something without a diagnosis?

I agree that self-diagnosis isn't particularly accurate. The definition of of a 'syndrome' is that it involves a combination of multiple symptoms - and in the case of psychological disorders, these may include personality traits, some of which are shared with much of the 'typical' population. So it would be quite common to be able to identify with some of the aspects of the description of, say, Asperger syndrome, but not all.

About the usefulness of diagnosis at all: I think it depends on the situation. Certainly if you are having personality/psychological issues that are making life difficult, then being able to identify them is the first step to managing them, although it can be the first step on a long journey. There's also an argument to be made that recognising personal issues can help with self-improvement or self-acceptance, even if they're not interfering with everyday life. (This is the main reason I continue to see my psychiatrist regularly, although my high risk for a relapse in the near future is also a factor.) On the other end of the scale, the reason Asperger syndrome is often categorised as "high-functioning" is that people may have it while never having any problem managing their lives, and in that case just having a label may not be of any practical use. There's an argument often made, in medicine, that if a diagnosis is not going to actually change anything you do, then it's often not worth going to any particular lengths to establish the exact diagnosis in the first place.

Thank you for this post fragment...Its structure, placement, and tone amused me greatly.

Glad to be of some entertainment value :) Of course I should probably add that particular disclaimer to just about everything I write...

Question to those who have various anxieties - do you find that if you're under stress / getting anxiety quite a bit, you start finding other anxieties that you rarely get popping up more regularly?

Been having issues recently with my academic anxiety seeping into my social life, which is worrying.

I definitely find that anxiety about one issue will heighten my other anxieties even if they are unrelated. I think it's at least partly a physiological response thing - the adrenaline system in action. Conversely, if I'm in a relatively stable period, like now, then it's much easier to shrug off the same issues and get past them.

I realise that the mere knowledge that "When you're well, this won't actually bother you so much any more" may not be so helpful to you right now - if you're finding things stressful, then you're going to react to that stress until you learn to respond differently. But for me, I'm hoping that holding on to that idea - knowing that despite having an anxiety disorder, I am capable of brushing off minor stresses - will help to carry me through the next stressful period.

[Temotei]

Question to those who have various anxieties - do you find that if you're under stress / getting anxiety quite a bit, you start finding other anxieties that you rarely get popping up more regularly?

Been having issues recently with my academic anxiety seeping into my social life, which is worrying.

I have so many anxieties right now that they're piling onto each other like leaves in autumn. And yes, the biggest ones push others into the forefront.

On a brighter note, I went to an appointment with student counseling today. First time in counseling in almost...ten years? I think. I didn't want to go then, but this time I do. Maybe talking about it in person with someone trained to deal with it and who I can talk to about anything (as opposed to Mum) will help me sleep and stop obsessing and being sad and everything else. I hope.

Being a psych student is really an odd experience when you know what's up but your mind/body can't handle it. Cognitive-emotional disconnect here.

[Astrella]

Yeah, I'm back at dorms now and still not having heard whether I get to re-enroll again is just making all the other stuff I'm anxious about worse and is making me anxious about things that don't usually bother me that much. Bleh.

[Temotei]

Yeah, I'm back at dorms now and still not having heard whether I get to re-enroll again is just making all the other stuff I'm anxious about worse and is making me anxious about things that don't usually bother me that much. Bleh.

*pat*

To everyone else: *pat*

Take my hugs if you would prefer them, though. *hugs*

[Lord Raziere]

I think I am starting to recognize my own online communication problem.

basically, there are various stages or steps or whatever to communication, various things information needs to go through until it reaches the other person and understood.

things like noise, gatekeepers and so on.

but I'm going to focus on two: encoding and decoding.

basically? I seem to somehow be encoding my words differently then how people are decoding them. this is not in itself surprising, because people probably do this all the time, and my encoding is probably just does things differently a little more extremely to cause so many misunderstandings.

thing is, I might be decoding other peoples words differently than they are encoding them sometimes. basically, coding problems. what I think is acceptable doesn't seem to match what other people think is acceptable.

thing is its hard to know when I'm saying something inappropriate because its invisible to me. I'm right in the middle of it. so yeah. encoding/decoding.

this is important to autism, because autistics, which I am a light case of, code things differently from others. and if I am a light case, imagine what its like for someone thats farther on the spectrum to decode/encode all this. its like there is not one language at work, but three. the internal language of myself, the external language "English" and the internal language of the person listening to me. technically they might all be "English" but I bet the meanings is different when communicating internally.

[sktarq]

On Oct 2nd Jon Stewart interviewed a gentleman about a book that had been written by a 13 year old Japanese boy about living with autism (who it was implied was largely non verbal but could use a typewriter to communicate) call "Why I Jump". I was just wondering if anyone here had read this book or know someone that has and what the readers' judgments were.

As for the above coding issue. I understand what you mean. I use a translation metaphor myself. That language is a set of symbols that should hopefully allow another person to recreate a thought process in their head that you had in yours. The assumption present in this process of how ideas described may fit together for example are, I believe, one of the key markers of "Atypical" thinking. Hence the often highly precise manner of speech-for example, the desire to be perfectly clear about the name and scope of this thread led to far more than discussion of the topic than found in a median exemplar on this site.

[Salbazier]

Just a bit of rant, here in my country it seems t be common to use 'Autis' as a word to disparage (did I use that word correctly) others, epecially in regard to a eccentric/annoying/funny behavior. Obviously this is annoying, especially since I have a cousin with Autism.

I myself, are not diagnosed with any atypical neurology, because I've never checked .

Sooooo, a question, what's actually valid as disorder or atypical neurology? Like, does a child throwing tantrums easily and slow maturity possibly count or it likely just, err, personality issues or whatever? I'm better nowadays, but looking back, I think that the young me perhaps could benefit from psychiatric aid.

[Lord Raziere]

Hm.

well thing is, I think Atypical Neurologies are kind of things with specific conditions and traits? while even "Atypical" people are full of variance and differences, its assumed that they mostly fall into what they have been diagnosed with, otherwise the diagnosis wouldn't be useful. y'know?

but then there is the fact that some scientists or whatever don't even want to consider these atypical traits as their own condition, and more like traits everyone has but in different amounts than what people "usually" have?

a child like that? umm, hm, it kind of depends, if thats all they have, thats probably an immaturity problem, if they have other behaviors that add up to something that is a reasonably accurate picture of something atypical? maybe.
the only way to be sure is to get a real diagnosis by a real doctor/psychologist.

the whole psychological diagnosis thing is pretty murky, at least to me, thats why you get so many people self-diagnosing and weird myths about various conditions popping up because this sort of thing is intimately tied to human nature and how people think about think about themselves. sorry, but its not something I can say for sure.

[Salbazier]

Ah, Okay. It just a thought that suddenly occurred to me, when I typed that 'never diagnosed' sentence.

[sktarq]

There are a mass of issues that surround your question.
Firstly the various conditions for giving a diagnosis throughout the autism spectrum (and bipolar, and "confrontational disorders", and the ADD family) are opinion based. Very subjective judgments based on the doctors view, often through the lens of teachers or parents. This has led to massive regional and social differences in what gets someone a diagnosis. Give two doctors the same patient on two different days and come up wit three opinions. Changes in attitude over time have led to major expansions of what were rare conditions. The condition didn't change and there is little evidence that population from which the diagnoses changed, but the number of diagnoses has exploded. Some, including me, would point to various group who profit from a larger customer base (big pharma and the diagnosing doctors themselves) or who are able to dismiss issues or work if a diagnosis is present (teachers or parents who have something to point to) as pressures that have changed how people interpret actions relative to the diagnostic criteria.
Secondly local "civilian" populations have, at least in the US, become highly familiar with terms used in this branch of treatment. This has led people with little or no training to describe behaviors, mostly ones they dislike, in diagnosis terms used in the DSM. This includes (actually is especially true) how teachers, parents, co-workers, and others will describe actions to a doctor looking into a person for possible diagnosis. However Joe Blog's idea of what constitutes "obsessive behavior patterns" for example is rather different than used for actual treating the issues in the DSM.
Thirdly the criteria are vague and often silly. The former allows for the above two issues to exist and grow. The latter is just annoying. For example many of the conditions say that unless the symptoms are causing disruptions to someones life they are not bad enough to count in a diagnosis. They also say that once diagnoses a person can never be "cured" only managed. Lets run a thought experiment. Two people, lets say boys for pronoun issues, with identical issues-lets say 10 year-olds. One "A" struggles and learns various coping mechanisms through trial and error and social support. The other "B" is taken by his parents to a doctor who makes a diagnosis. years of drugs and therapy (if he is lucky) later he too learns various coping mechanisms, comes off his meds. Both go with their lives basically asymptotically. However if any issues come up later in life there are large differences in how they will be treated. Trying to get a government job 15 years later A will have an advantage. If they are analyzed for say a top secret clearance or a scientific study A will not only come up as not being "mentally ill" as his issues do not cause life disruption but B will still be considered "mentally ill" even though there is no difference in their lives at this time other than a note in a medical file. So the diagnostic criteria comes to logically include access to a doctor, without exposure to one at the proper stage there is no mental illness 15 years later. I find this externality to throw question onto much of the field's day to day results. I got very uncomfortable looks from the professors of psychology I ran this thought experiment by in Uni but they agreed that the scenario was valid (as in could and even does happen). While some doctors and therapists will note and even use such old information in ways that get around the above kind of scenario they are actually bending or breaking the diagnostic rules-and while the DSM V (the most recent update) may allow for the above to be dealt with more logically at times (with a few syndromes) it doesn't with others.

[Reality Glitch]

*snip*

Towards the end I started thinking, "Yes, they can't be cured, but they can go away or be rendered inert." Coping mechanisms fit under the latter, they're mentally ill by name alone.

[Reality Glitch]

Bumping since this was going so well, I would like this to keep going.

[Astrella]

*sigh*

Fifth anxiety therapist in a row that's not taking new clients, I'm starting to get a bit desperate about finding one. And the new term is starting and just leaving my room to go to the kitchen is hard, let alone doing groceries or going to class and I'm just really worked up all the time and it's really tiring and draining and I can't turn my head off even though I'd really like to. :/

[Iruka]

Those with Asperger syndrome often also have strange manners of speaking, such as the technically correct and yet strange way in which I am currently writing.

Huh? Your writing doesn't seem that strange to me.

My best friend is convinced I have Asperger's, but in my opinion, I'm mostly just lazy.

[Eldan]

I've been diagnosed with a lot of things by different doctors, but nothing ever properly, since I never stayed with any one doctor for more than a handful of sessions. Non-hyperactive ADD, gifted, major depression, (social) anxiety, Aspergers and a few others. Except for a case of Dyspraxia, which I mostly grew out of by now.