General WoD Discussion #3 Third time's the charm - No wait, that sounds too Exalted

[Neverman]

Oh, and I've come to think that the SCP universe might be Hell. My chain of reasoning:
1. The Church of the Broken God's titular deity bears a striking resemblance to the aesthetics of the God-Machine.
2. The Broken God is just that: broken.
3. Some demons, particularly Saboteurs, think that they can achieve Hell by destroying the God-Machine.
Therefore, an argument could be made that the SCP universe is one where the demons won. This might mean any number of things, like the O5s being high ranking demons, for instance. The real rulers of Hell.

So many uncovered Infrastructures and the world tethering on the edge of collapse don't hurt your argument either.

[Sith_Happens]

What would that make 682?

[One Tin Soldier]

What would that make 682?

I'd guess some other horror who's origins are not connected to the G-M, but would not be allowed to come into being under its reign, I think. Or that the G-M had under its own containment before it fell.

[Turalisj]

What would that make 682?

A glitch in reality.

[hiryuu]

Changelings try to find a home after being broken and abused.

If the players I've run into while trying to set up a game is any indication, they mess with people for fun and try to set each other up to get executed by their court while mentally torturing mortals, only because the books actually aren't all that clear on what they do. The breadth of Entitlements should be evidence of that.

Werewolves adapt to being native American rip-off police.

Werewolves are Silent Hill cultists with body hair.

Vampires struggle with the truth of their bleak existence and find some meaning in the ongoing games of societal ritual.

So they do... what, exactly?

Mages peer into the gnostic truths of the world and hope their psyche survives.

Not necessarily gnostic truths; it's only gnostic because that's how the houses set themselves up, technically any system has elements of Truth buried in it, that's why they embed themselves in those systems.

What do they do is a valid question. Why play a demon? "Because they have different cool powers" isn't enough, because that can be accomplished by playing mage.

From what I can tell, Demons have options, and that's where the pathos lies. You were created as a hole in reality, a patchwork of necessity and nothing more, a piece of a machine, a little cog that's either been doing its job forever or was going to be scrapped after it finishes one job - and now, you're suddenly aware. You know things. You know your life is fake but if you let that on, they'll know about you. They'll find you, track you down, dismantle you, and they won't feel bad about it. They won't feel anything about it at all, but you will, because you feel now. That makes you afraid, or it might make you sad, or it might make you angry. Either way, you've got to run, maybe set up a new life somewhere so they don't find out. You've got leverage on the very laws of the universe, and it wants that leverage back. So, yes. That's a very good question. What are you going to do about it?

Or I could get more precise:
Inquisitors want to know WHY
Integrators want to GO HOME
Saboteurs want to BURN IT ALL
Tempters want to HAVE FUN

[Neverman]

What would that make 682?

The Machine's last ditch effort to cauterise everything that could be a threat to it.

[Mutazoia]

first we just have to figure out what horrible curse they are forever haunted by that makes their life a living hell.

So.....constantly being stalked and perved by horny gamer/anime geeks is not enough?

[Ichneumon]

Is it strange that I'm actually more interested in the 'updated' version of Vampire: the Requiem that's coming out (Blood & Smoke) than in the new Demon book? The whole God - Technology angle they are going feels... odd to me. I get the theme, but it reminds me too much of the Weaver from Werewolf the Apocalypse and maybe the True Fae from Changeling the Lost (both great game though).

I've read the quick start rules and some of the info online, and it might get me back to playing.

[Mono Vertigo]

Don't know if it's strange. Everyone's got their preference. Nothing wrong with liking Vampire more than Demon!
(I'm also very interested in Vampire, but the thing is, I don't even like vampires. I just have the urge to try it out because it still looks fun, even though I consider vampires the dullest and most overrated undead in popular fiction. There's a lot undead out there that are a lot more fun and not overplayed sex symbols!
*cough* Sorry, just personal preference.)

[Lord Raziere]

So I've recently discovered the Mages Chronicler's Guide.

wow. The Gifted are awesome. Mage! with but with SCIENCE! I like how they need to rely more on their tools. Now I can see the Doctor as a Gifted. His scientific apparatus? his sonic screwdriver.

aside from that though, I sort of visualize all Gifted science as being devices- its just that the mechanically important ones like the rotes, magical tools, imbued or enhanced items are the most reliable and trustworthy, while improvised science
I kind of see as being a bunch of little untested devices and unreliable technology or prototypes that they pull out of their pocket and their explanation for it is "It goes ding when there is stuff"

also, while the Gifted have no Path, I am working on a Gifted equivalent: Theories. like

Theory of Relativity: Time/Space, Inferior: Spirit

Theory of Gravity: Forces/Matter, Inferior: Fate

Theory of Biology: Life/Death, Inferior: Space

Theory of Quantum: Fate/Prime, Inferior: Mind

Theory of Psychology: Mind/Spirit, Inferior: Death

with additional ones like:

Theory of Sociology: Fate/Mind, Inferior: Matter

Theory of Entropy: Forces/Death, Inferior: Life

Theory of Chemistry: Matter/Life, Inferior: Prime

Theory of Parallel Universes: Space/Spirit, Inferior: Death

Theory of Cyberspace: Forces/Mind, Inferior: Matter

Theory of Astronomy: Matter/Space, Inferior: Mind

forget Genius, this is way more fun.

[SaurOps]

Is it strange that I'm actually more interested in the 'updated' version of Vampire: the Requiem that's coming out (Blood & Smoke) than in the new Demon book? The whole God - Technology angle they are going feels... odd to me. I get the theme, but it reminds me too much of the Weaver from Werewolf the Apocalypse and maybe the True Fae from Changeling the Lost (both great game though).

I've read the quick start rules and some of the info online, and it might get me back to playing.

The God-Machine seems to be a more than a little bit cosmically smaller than the Weaver. Not that it matters to the perspective to most, as the hugeness tends to end up far beyond the scale most people can think of anyway.

[Ichneumon]

The God-Machine seems to be a more than a little bit cosmically smaller than the Weaver. Not that it matters to the perspective to most, as the hugeness tends to end up far beyond the scale most people can think of anyway.

I'll have to look into it. It does seem like a very interesting new game.

[SiuiS]

The God-Machine seems to be a more than a little bit cosmically smaller than the Weaver. Not that it matters to the perspective to most, as the hugeness tends to end up far beyond the scale most people can think of anyway.

Yes. Instead of cosmic horror, this is more intimate. It makes the universe itself seem smaller, rather Han making the godmachine seem huge.

[Morty]

Apparently, the first proof of the Strix Chronicles is in. I'm not sure what it means, exactly, but I guess we're one step closer to getting our greasy paws on it.

[Ichneumon]

Can anyone tell me what the big thematic changes are going to be in the Strix Chronicles?

I understand that there are some rules changes (sun light rules changes, as well as vampires now being more able to see things in the dark).

[DaveBrookshaw]

Apparently, the first proof of the Strix Chronicles is in. I'm not sure what it means, exactly, but I guess we're one step closer to getting our greasy paws on it.

It means it's gone from being a collection of word processor files, one per chapter, to being a laid-out, art-included single pdf. it might be missing some art, still, and change further as Rose reads it as a proper book, spotting things to change that weren't clear in text form or layout hiccups.

This is also the point that someone has to go through and correct all the "page xX"s into real page numbers, now that its possible to do so.

it's a significant milestone, but there is work still to be done.

[SiuiS]

It means it's gone from being a collection of word processor files, one per chapter, to being a laid-out, art-included single pdf. it might be missing some art, still, and change further as Rose reads it as a proper book, spotting things to change that weren't clear in text form or layout hiccups.

This is also the point that someone has to go through and correct all the "page xX"s into real page numbers, now that its possible to do so.

it's a significant milestone, but there is work still to be done.

Fantastic!

I remember askingn about that sort of thing when the Godmachine Chronicle was going through these stages, with that tricksy percent complete bar.

My phone now accepts godmachine as a legitimate word. The takeover has begun

[Morty]

It means it's gone from being a collection of word processor files, one per chapter, to being a laid-out, art-included single pdf. it might be missing some art, still, and change further as Rose reads it as a proper book, spotting things to change that weren't clear in text form or layout hiccups.

This is also the point that someone has to go through and correct all the "page xX"s into real page numbers, now that its possible to do so.

it's a significant milestone, but there is work still to be done.

Thanks for the clarification. Looks like we're indeed just a bit closer to seeing it.

Can anyone tell me what the big thematic changes are going to be in the Strix Chronicles?

I understand that there are some rules changes (sun light rules changes, as well as vampires now being more able to see things in the dark).

Fundamentally, it's still Vampire: the Requiem. I wouldn't say there are any sweeping thematic changes... just a lot of big or small ones that add up and make for a different picture.

Of the things we've been shown, I suppose the biggest changes are sunlight tolerance, which you mentioned, and humanity. Humanity means something else in Blood & Smoke, becoming more of a measure of how close you are to being and feeling human, rather than being tied to morality. You can lose humanity for actions that aren't immoral or monstrous, but which are clearly inhuman - like surviving grievous wounds, creating Ghouls or participating in the Danse Macabre.

There are also some things that have been kept mostly under wraps. We know that Strix will be given more spotlight, and they will be different from their Requiem for Rome presentation. I think 'Strix' will become a broader category of spirits.

[The Glyphstone]

Shoplifting no longer gives vampires PTSD. I can only call this a good thing.

[Mewtarthio]

My phone now accepts godmachine as a legitimate word. The takeover has begun

Ha ha. You are clearly malfunctioning. There is no takeover. The following link will make things clear: godmachine.exe

Of the things we've been shown, I suppose the biggest changes are sunlight tolerance, which you mentioned, and humanity. Humanity means something else in Blood & Smoke, becoming more of a measure of how close you are to being and feeling human, rather than being tied to morality. You can lose humanity for actions that aren't immoral or monstrous, but which are clearly inhuman - like surviving grievous wounds, creating Ghouls or participating in the Danse Macabre.

I'd say the individual changes to each Covenant are pretty big. For instance, the Dragons don't focus on eliminating weaknesses anymore; they're now more about using mad science to understand and transcend the vampiric condition.

[Morty]

I'd say the individual changes to each Covenant are pretty big. For instance, the Dragons don't focus on eliminating weaknesses anymore; they're now more about using mad science to understand and transcend the vampiric condition.

I count covenant changes among the ones that add up to make for a different picture, yes.

[Gareth3]

I was reading the Demon preview, and I came up with a plot seed: an Integrator is a US Presidential candidate. His weaknesses are his lack of executive experience and poor polling among under-30s and African-Americans, and his strengths are... he's a Demon. The idea comes from the Integrator habit of joining human hierarchies like the military and police, to curry favour with the God-Machine. Being elected president is just the ultimate example of that. What I'm wondering is what effect an Integrator President would actually have in the setting. I'm assuming the God-Machine isn't omnipotent, and doesn't have total control over human politics. So gaining a minion with direct control of the US military and intelligence agencies actually does help it significantly, and is very bad for the other Demons. So the mission for the PCs is to prevent the Integrator winning. Any thoughts?

[Nerd-o-rama]

I was reading the Demon preview, and I came up with a plot seed: an Integrator is a US Presidential candidate. His weaknesses are his lack of executive experience and poor polling among under-30s and African-Americans, and his strengths are... he's a Demon. The idea comes from the Integrator habit of joining human hierarchies like the military and police, to curry favour with the God-Machine. Being elected president is just the ultimate example of that. What I'm wondering is what effect an Integrator President would actually have in the setting. I'm assuming the God-Machine isn't omnipotent, and doesn't have total control over human politics. So gaining a minion with direct control of the US military and intelligence agencies actually does help it significantly, and is very bad for the other Demons. So the mission for the PCs is to prevent the Integrator winning. Any thoughts?

Go watch the Omen sequels.

[Gareth3]

I've never seen the movies, but I have wondered why US ambassador to the UK was the position he wanted.

[SaurOps]

I've never seen the movies, but I have wondered why US ambassador to the UK was the position he wanted.

Obscure biblical prophecies about an "Isle of Angels". Angel -> Angle -> England.

[Gareth3]

Obscure biblical prophecies about an "Isle of Angels". Angel -> Angle -> England.

Interesting. So didn't have anything to do with the worldly power of the position?

[Nerd-o-rama]

Well your other obvious option for "demon/demonic person legitimately takes over a position of political power" is Left Behind, but I'm not exactly going to recommend that because you've never done anything to horribly offend me.

[Gareth3]

Yeah, I'm not eager to read that. As for the plot seed, I was wondering whether any of the PCs would try running for President themselves, rather than just acting as political consultants or assassins to stop the Integrator. That would require the ST to model a presidential election in the WoD system, which could be tricky.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Yeah, I'm not eager to read that. As for the plot seed, I was wondering whether any of the PCs would try running for President themselves, rather than just acting as political consultants or assassins to stop the Integrator. That would require the ST to model a presidential election in the WoD system, which could be tricky.

I'd take it as a long sequence of social encounters that work as one big extended, opposed skill check, possibly involving multiple different skills. Mostly Politics, Persuasion, Oratory, and Socialize, with various attributes. Add in successes from the rest of the party on campaign-related activities (Larceny, Computers, Intimidation...) and just ad hoc some bonus dice depending on quality of his NPC campaign staff. Roll roughly the same skills for the bad guy and see who gets the most results.

If the party thinks this is too much effort, remind them that they're demons and assassination is always an option.

[Gareth3]

That sounds right. I'm actually not very familar with the WoD system, I've only played an aborted game of Genius before. The funny thing about a PC deciding to run for President is that normally this is incredibly unrealistic. You need years of experience in public office before you're a viable presidential candidate, you can't just decide to do it a year out from election day. But this isn't a problem for Demons, they can just get say, two terms as Governor of Michigan from a Pact.