General WoD Discussion #3 Third time's the charm - No wait, that sounds too Exalted

[Mewtarthio]

Heck, just skip all that campaigning work. Make a Pact with a mortal politician in which he gains vast temporal power at the cost of his soul. Then come by to collect later.

[Gareth3]

Yeah, stretch Pacts far enough and campaigning becomes redundant. As far as I can see it is possible to get "I am President of the United States" from a Pact, but the effects of that are going to be very weird.

[SaurOps]

Interesting. So didn't have anything to do with the worldly power of the position?

He was already the owner of the multinational Thorn corporation by then.

[MugaSofer]

Yeah, stretch Pacts far enough and campaigning becomes redundant. As far as I can see it is possible to get "I am President of the United States" from a Pact, but the effects of that are going to be very weird.

How many dots in Status: Government does the President have?

[Nerd-o-rama]

How many dots in Status: Government does the President have?

All of them.

[Yuki Akuma]

How many dots in Status: Government does the President have?

Six. He has six dots.

Because obviously he has a merit letting him have six dots.

[Mono Vertigo]

There's only a few days left for backing the D:tD Kickstarter.
I'd like to point out that a bunch of nice stretch goals have been achieved already (plot seeds, a complement about children with one or more demonic parents, etc); unless a lot of pledges are withdrawn at the last second, you're guaranteed to get them as long as you pledge for the .pdf of the game.
The next stretch goal is a pay increase for the writers. If you're not interested by that, with a little luck, we may reach the seeds beyond that.

[SiuiS]

Six. He has six dots.

Because obviously he has a merit letting him have six dots.

Higher political merit cap is a symptom of having a really high Patrotism power stat.



So how far into the test PDF is the demon character generation stuff? I don't have much computer time and I don't want to just start scrolling and miss it.


E: crap!

Uh... What is the minimum backing amount for a PDF? I'm almost a hundred in the hole on my bills, but I may just be able to finagle something; I'm going to be several hundred in surplus next paycheck.

[Mono Vertigo]

It starts at p.107 of the unedited text!


EDIT: and you need to pledge 25$ for the .pdf and be eligible for the virtual bonuses.

[SiuiS]

Huzzah! Ican actually see what I think of the mechanics now! XD

And that should just be doable. If I can move around some funds for a week... I went in on my phone and couldn't make sense of the pay this much at five dollars to get a book but only if you're already getting the book but not a PDF or whatnot. Should really use full screens for some of these things.

EDIT: And now, I have joined the ranks of the Unchained.

[Lady Serpentine]

So! Just got Werewolf: The Forsaken. While Uratha are interesting, I'm honestly more into Spirits, and I made a Lesser Jaggling, known as The Grove Defiled, which is a swamp-spirit with aspects of decay, death, and fury spirits.

Anyone up for looking it over?

Spoiler: The Grove Defiled

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Lesser Jaggling/Baron - The Grove Defiled

Power - 9
Finesse - 4
Resistance - 5

Corpus - 7
Willpower - 14
Initiative - 9
Speed - 23

Influence (Decay) - 3

Numen -

Blast: A shower of razor-tipped shards of wood and bone, trailing toxic muck and strands of diseased flesh.
Materialize: As standard. (Shadow/physical form.)
Chorus: Can commune with all forest-spirits in nine miles.
Discorporation: As standard; discorporates into a flood of stinking swamp water.
Harrow: Fills target with overwhelming rage.
Silent Fog: As standard Gift.
Sense Weakness: As standard Gift.

Ban - The Grove Defiled must seek a safe place each night or be completely exposed to its enemies, as it goes dormant the moment that the sun is fully set.

[Kesnit]

I have an idea to use on my players in a game, but want to make sure this isn't a jerk move...

The game is VtR, set in London in the mid-15th Century. Party is a Bron (Ventrue), Malkovian (Ventrue), Gulikan (Daeva), and a Meket without a bloodline. The Gulikan is the second character that player made, because her first character (though some very bad rolls), ended up frenzying in public and got herself staked and burned. Which led to the current questline...

Since one of my players let out the secret that vampires are in the city, a group of Hunters formed. There's 4 Hunters:

Spoiler

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1) The Founder, who is moderately well educated.
2) The Academic, who is a noble, very well educated, and in the past had ties to Malleus Maleficarum (MM). He is also rather old.
3) The Thug, who is a Master Stonemason who spends most of his money on alcohol and prostitutes, and
4) The Barkeep/Inkeeper, who owns the tavern where the Thug lives and drinks.
(All have real names, but for simplicity sake, I am calling them by their archetype.)

Founder knew Academic, and when he decided to take matters into his own hands, went to his friend for help. Thug overheard Founder talking about his plans to "rid the city of the Spawn of Satan" and volunteers. Barkeep mostly serves as a go-between between Thug and Founder.

The story so far...

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One of the NPC vampires showed up at the Meket's Haven with a staked vampire. (This is how I introduced the Gulikan.) The NPC said she'd seen several prostitutes attacked and staked like that, but this was the first actual vampire who got attacked. After waking the Gulikan up, the Prince ordered the PCs to find out who was attacking prostitutes and stop them.

With some investigation, the party found Thug, kidnapped him, and interrogated him. From that, they learned Founder's name, and Thug referenced the "Malleus Maleficarum," but they got no other information. They released Thug (with his memories altered) and watched him to see who he met. After several days of him going to work, getting drunk, and passing out drunk, the party decided to speed things up.

In last night's session, they kidnapped Thug again and Dominated him into answering questions. Then, while the party discussed what to do, I gave them a hint that there is more to Thug than they thought. He activated Shepard's Blessing. The Meket succeeded in a Clash of Wills and knew he was still tied to the chair, but the rest thought he had vanished. When asked why he did it, he answered "Sometimes the Shepard must hide in order to protect the sheep from the wolves." When asked how, he said "God's power is great."

The party released him again. This time, they altered his memories to make him think he had been captured by a coven of witches. They also implanted a command to give a coded message to Founder next time Thug saw Founder. (It was phrased in such a way that Thug would never say it on his own, but gives a time and place for the meeting.)

What the party does not know:
1) Both Founder and Thug have been attacking and killing prostitutes. The Gulikan was the first actual vampire they attacked.
2) The Hunters are members of the Malleus Maleficarum conspiracy.
3) They know Barkeep saw the kidnapping. They don't know he sent a message to Founder.
4) That Barkeep is a member of the conspiracy.

My plans

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When I statted up the Hunters, I gave both Founder and Academic the Benediction "Blessed Protection of St. Agrippina." The benediction wards an area against supernatural creatures. (Strength of the warding is the casters Benediction level. Ward strength is subtracted from a supernatural's Presence. If the result is 0, the supernatural cannot enter the area. If the result is greater than 0, the supernatural can enter, but all their Strength, Intelligence, and Presence rolls are reduced by ward strength as long as they are in the area.) Academic has a Benediction level of 5. Founder has a level of 3. I don't think any of the party has a Presence of 4, and I know none have a Presence of 5.

What I am thinking of doing is having Founder go to the meeting place (which is inside the sewers) during the day to scout it. Then Founder, Academic, and Thug will go back (again during the day) and set the wards at strength 5. The party will be unable to enter, but will be able to talk to Founder, Academic, and Thug. Academic will tell the party to meet him at a cottage outside the city. That cottage will also be warded, but only at ward strength 2 (so all should be able to enter). There, they will meet all four Hunters, who will be prepared with "Armor of St. Martin," "Epipodian Safeguard" (protection against mental powers), and "Wrathful Sword of St. Michael the Archangel" (weapons do agg damage to supernaturals).

I fear this is a jerk move for two reasons
1) The party assumes Malleus Maleficarum refers to the book, not the Hunter conspiracy. Even though Thug used a power, they do not know what they are really dealing with.
2) They have elaborate plans to ambush Founder when he arrives at the sewer. Those plans will go right out the window.

My arguments against this being a jerk move
1) Thug used a power, so they know there is something strange about him. (I think their current thought is that Founder is a Changling.)
2) Per the book, Hunters are planners.
3) I had statted out the Hunters, including the rituals known, before last night's game. Founder has INT 4, and Academic INT 5/WITS 5. They are not so stupid as to fall into an obvious trap.
4) It seems they have forgotten that mortals can walk around during the day, and that they have no set date for this meeting (since there was no way to know when Thug would see Founder).

[Mewtarthio]

Sounds perfectly reasonable. As you pointed out, one of the Hunters used a supernatural power right in front of them, so they can't exactly call foul when the others also have supernatural powers. Even if they don't know all the details of the Conspiracy, they should at least be ready for some holy-themed magic getting thrown their way. As for the ambush, if they blithely walk onto an enemy's turf even after it's been obviously enchanted with anti-vampire magic, they deserve what happens next.

[SiuiS]

Looks like the Demon Prestige kick starter is done. Hurrah! I spent fifty bucks just to make sure I knew how demon babies worked!

[sktarq]

I have an idea to use on my players in a game, but want to make sure this isn't a jerk move......I fear this is a jerk move for two reasons.....4) It seems they have forgotten that mortals can walk around during the day, and that they have no set date for this meeting (since there was no way to know when Thug would see Founder).

How jerk a move is this? Not very overall but if your players are fairly new then it is more a matter of inexperience and PC-centrism than anything. If you are worried that the move could be game disrupting leave places for them to get out easily from the little shed they are being drawn to. See if you can hint that they may want to scout the place out themselves via a ghoul during the day if they have one. Also make sure to calculate the overall costs of casting the ward at level 5 regularly since the warder wouldn't know when the meeting is regularly. If you can make discression a greater part than valour and have it be a learning experience.

[Lady Serpentine]

Actually, it doesn't take casting it regularly - they know when and where the meeting is, to show up at it. They're going in when the vampires are not there and casting it, the day of the meeting; seems like that's pretty much a one-time casting, no?

[Kesnit]

Not very overall but if your players are fairly new then it is more a matter of inexperience and PC-centrism than anything.

They aren't new. They've been playing tabletop and LARP for years. One of my players is an ST for the local LARP group.

See if you can hint that they may want to scout the place out themselves via a ghoul during the day if they have one.

They don't. However, 2 of the NPC vampires have ghouls, and they are doing this job for the Prince. If they ask, they would be allowed to borrow a ghoul for a day. Or they can do what they have done before, and hire a gang of street urchins to so their spy work.

Also make sure to calculate the overall costs of casting the ward at level 5 regularly since the warder wouldn't know when the meeting is regularly. If you can make discression a greater part than valour and have it be a learning experience.

Actually, it doesn't take casting it regularly - they know when and where the meeting is, to show up at it. They're going in when the vampires are not there and casting it, the day of the meeting; seems like that's pretty much a one-time casting, no?

Exactly.

The meeting in the sewers is supposed to happen at midnight, but the PCs don't know what day. So they plan to rotate going to the sewer every night around 11 to set up their "ambush." All they know is that it will happen sometime in the next two months (because that is how long the Malkovian's suggestion will last).

The Hunters are the ones who will be setting the wards. They know when the meeting will occur because it will happen the night that they (the Hunters) are actually there. I know that Thug will see Founder 3 weeks after the suggestion was given. (I rolled for some timing issues before the last game session.) So the meeting will likely be about a month after the suggestion was given.

Even if the meeting at the cottage takes place the night after the meeting in the sewers, different Hunters will set the wards each night. Academic has to set the wards in the sewer because he is the only one with Benediction 5. Founder will likely set the wards on the cottage.

Also, I came up with a slightly different plan. Rather than have the Hunters in the cottage, there will be a dying beggar and a note saying something like "we're watching you. We know who you are." The walls will be soaked in something flammable. Once the PCs are inside, the Hunters will light up the building...

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Also, I came up with a slightly different plan. Rather than have the Hunters in the cottage, there will be a dying beggar and a note saying something like "we're watching you. We know who you are." The walls will be soaked in something flammable. Once the PCs are inside, the Hunters will light up the building...

That would give the PCs a good chance to figure out it's a trap beforehand if they haven't prepared a way out before. Flammable liquids tend to be somewhat... pungent.

[Lady Serpentine]

Still hoping for someone to look over this...

Spoiler

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So! Just got Werewolf: The Forsaken. While Uratha are interesting, I'm honestly more into Spirits, and I made a Lesser Jaggling, known as The Grove Defiled, which is a swamp-spirit with aspects of decay, death, and fury spirits.

Anyone up for looking it over?

Spoiler: The Grove Defiled

Show

Lesser Jaggling/Baron - The Grove Defiled

Power - 9
Finesse - 4
Resistance - 5

Corpus - 7
Willpower - 14
Initiative - 9
Speed - 23

Influence (Decay) - 3

Numen -

Blast: A shower of razor-tipped shards of wood and bone, trailing toxic muck and strands of diseased flesh.
Materialize: As standard. (Shadow/physical form.)
Chorus: Can commune with all forest-spirits in nine miles.
Discorporation: As standard; discorporates into a flood of stinking swamp water.
Harrow: Fills target with overwhelming rage.
Silent Fog: As standard Gift.
Sense Weakness: As standard Gift.

Ban - The Grove Defiled must seek a safe place each night or be completely exposed to its enemies, as it goes dormant the moment that the sun is fully set.

[Morty]

Just so you all know, the Strix Chronicles have hit the virtual shelves.

[SiuiS]

Still hoping for someone to look over this...

It's a spirit.

What do you want it for?
What should it do?
What is its niche?
What is its narrative purpose?
How well does it achieve what it is designed to achieve?

Without context, all we can say is "yes. That certainly looks like a spirit or similar monster with numen or similar powers, alright".

[Kaun]

So i have just signed up for a W:tF game. Never played W:tF before but i have played a bit of nWoD.

Any tips? Not really looking for min max tips, more...

... i don't know... highlight any parts of the game/mechanics that is should pay more attention too that may not appear to be important to people new the game. Any general W:tf tips, that kinda thing.

Point me at any related articles or blogs worth reading.

Cheers in advance.

[Lady Serpentine]

It's a spirit.

What do you want it for?
What should it do?
What is its niche?
What is its narrative purpose?
How well does it achieve what it is designed to achieve?

Without context, all we can say is "yes. That certainly looks like a spirit or similar monster with numen or similar powers, alright".

That was, to be honest, all I needed. >.> It was a first run through the spirit rules, and I wished to ensure that I hadn't messed up somehow.

[sktarq]

Exactly.

The meeting in the sewers is supposed to happen at midnight, but the PCs don't know what day. So they plan to rotate going to the sewer every night around 11 to set up their "ambush." All they know is that it will happen sometime in the next two months (because that is how long the Malkovian's suggestion will last).

The Hunters are the ones who will be setting the wards. They know when the meeting will occur because it will happen the night that they (the Hunters) are actually there. I know that Thug will see Founder 3 weeks after the suggestion was given. (I rolled for some timing issues before the last game session.) So the meeting will likely be about a month after the suggestion was given.

Even if the meeting at the cottage takes place the night after the meeting in the sewers, different Hunters will set the wards each night. Academic has to set the wards in the sewer because he is the only one with Benediction 5. Founder will likely set the wards on the cottage.

Also, I came up with a slightly different plan. Rather than have the Hunters in the cottage, there will be a dying beggar and a note saying something like "we're watching you. We know who you are." The walls will be soaked in something flammable. Once the PCs are inside, the Hunters will light up the building...

While the game may have already happened I'd like to make a point. The hunters have no way of getting a date back to the vampires to set a date. thus in order to meet at midnight someone would have to be going there every night. Or a rep. The Hunters wouldn't know if they are going to meet someone each night. In the fifteen C meeting without such dates required lots of waiting around and mix ups. The vampires don't have to engage them when they show up in the sewers. A hint that following them home might produce better info....also they could just leave a note at 7 pm. The thing is the coterie has far more options and control than they seem to realize. Throw a couple hints and see if they bite. If not you have a pretty good backup.

[One Tin Soldier]

So i have just signed up for a W:tF game. Never played W:tF before but i have played a bit of nWoD.

Any tips? Not really looking for min max tips, more...

... i don't know... highlight any parts of the game/mechanics that is should pay more attention too that may not appear to be important to people new the game. Any general W:tf tips, that kinda thing.

Point me at any related articles or blogs worth reading.

Cheers in advance.

Partial Change is an all-around great Gift. It combines the usefulness of Gauru claws in Dalu form or a wolf nose in human form, with the creepy silliness of a wolf with human hands.

[Kesnit]

While the game may have already happened

Due to my schedule and the fact Christmas is a Wednesday (which is the day we play), the next game won't be until New Year's.

thus in order to meet at midnight someone would have to be going there every night.

As of now, that is what the PC's plan to do. They will go to the sewer every night around 11PM until the Hunters show.

The vampires don't have to engage them when they show up in the sewers.

The PCs can always walk away, especially since they won't be able to do anything except talk to the Hunters. I don't think they will, though, since (1) they are rather peeved about the Hunters, and (2) the Prince told them to deal with the Hunters.

A hint that following them home might produce better info....also they could just leave a note at 7 pm.

What do you mean?

The thing is the coterie has far more options and control than they seem to realize. Throw a couple hints and see if they bite. If not you have a pretty good backup.

Thing is, I WANT them to talk to the Hunters and go to the hut outside the city.

[sktarq]

As for leaving a note. at 7 thing

It the vampires or their ghoul left a note to the Hunters at say just after sunset it would lead the hunters to a different neutral place. Now that is just an option your players have. While you want to get them to the hut if you are worried about fairness then hint at the ways the coterie could avoid the ambush. If you are no longer worried about the "fairness" of your setup now that you've tweaked it then don't bother. but it was your original concern.

[Grytorm]

I have a lore question about Mage the Awakening. What sort of conflicts do the free council get into with the Adamantine Arrow and the Silver Ladder. i can imagine why they would fight with the Mysterium and the Guardians but the other two orders are more elusive.

[Shadowy]

I have a lore question about Mage the Awakening. What sort of conflicts do the free council get into with the Adamantine Arrow and the Silver Ladder. i can imagine why they would fight with the Mysterium and the Guardians but the other two orders are more elusive.

Free Council: HIERARCHY FOSTERS THE LIE

SL: THE SLEEPERS FOLLOW, IMPERIUM IS THE RIGHT OF MANKIND.

Adamantium Arrow: Yay war! War has generals and a clear chain of command. It's not exactly democratic.

[SiuiS]

I have a lore question about Mage the Awakening. What sort of conflicts do the free council get into with the Adamantine Arrow and the Silver Ladder. i can imagine why they would fight with the Mysterium and the Guardians but the other two orders are more elusive.

I've got a ST who flips a coin every chronicle to decide if the bad guys are the Seers or the Libertines.

The free council has no ties to Atlantis and actually threatens the primacy of awakened orthodoxy. Their stance is that sleepers are magic in their own right, and don't need to be awake and don't need the awakened. The fallen world isn't quite so fallen as everyone lets on, it's worth having for it's own merits. It's just those jackass seers who keep everyone down who are a problem, enforcing exarchial rule that would be supplanted by time and human enlightenment.

Their goals include "kill the servants of the lie", which could mean the throne, or any hierarchical structure including world governments (suddenly: terrorism) or destroying the pentacle. They have no hierarchies themselves, and since hierarchy comes from one of the Exarchs (I forget which) this is an actual, effective ideological blow against the throne. There is no sympathy to their ways they can use to control the libertines.

There is also a lot of "pfff, your sacred traditions are no more valid despite millennia of backing than the scribbles I wrote on an acid triple at Tuesday" that really gets to the Diamond. Because if the free council is wrong they are leading astray wizards who should by rights be taught the truth and angled against the evils of the Exarchs, and if they're right, then the diamond is full of liars and fools and we can't believe that because it invalidates us entirely!

The arrow, meanwhile, glorify conflict. It is a catalyst for growth. The personal growth of a soldier outweighs the burning of a nation which prompted it. Hell, World War II was one of the greatest awakening events in world history; there are those in the silver ladder and Adamantine arrow who want that to happen again.

E'ery order is a mystery cult, too. They're wizard religions. Any conflict you could find in history based on "guy with authority says X, defends it against all comers because HOLY TRUTH" can be applied to Mage inter council conflict.