Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

[Cheesegear]

Hmm.... Let's reason it out a bit, just for the sake of it...

Rather than consider what you wont do, what will you do?

Coteaz + Warbands
Good painting and modelling opportunity. If you're any good at converting, you can literally use any model in the entire GW range (except Tyranids). If your aim is not 'To Win' (even though Coteaz can totally do that), this presents a lot of hobby opportunities. If your goal was to win, you could be playing Tau. Or Eldar. Or Space Marines. Or Daemons. Since you don't want to play any of those armies, I'm going to assume that winning is not your highest priority.

Tyranids
Problem with a new Codex being on the horizon is that whatever is good now, may not be good later on. However, if the trend in 6th keeps going, the good stuff is only going to get better, and the bad stuff is going to get barely usable. Still, if you're not looking to play with the army, buying up a couple of models that you like now, is better than buying them later when they get a new kit reboxed and price-hiked.

Sisters of Battle
the downside is that I have no legal way to own their new Codex

As luck would have it, they're releasing it in Kindle/Android format. Which means you can buy it and use the eReader extension in Google Chrome, or whatever your PC-eReader of choice is. Anyway, you can buy it outside of iBooks, which opens up all sorts of possibilities.

Still, if you just want models with Storm Bolters and/or Meltaguns, you can buy the Sisters Sororitas and chuck them in Coteaz squads.

Orks
Well, I mean, if you hate painting...

Imperial Guard
Lots of modelling opportunities. If you do it right, you can switch to Coteaz at any time and pull out all the Guard tanks as Allies. My Guard is red and black for that specific purpose (except for my Mordians, which I love).


My suggestion is Coteaz. It's a fun hobby project and isn't even bad on the table either.

[LeSwordfish]

If you wanted to do Skitarii, i'd suggest that would be far easier with a coteaz list too.

As a reasonably long-time Coteaz player, I can recommend it. The basic troops choice has a asston of variety, access to Lascannons, plasma cannons and multi-meltas. You can get cheap-ish divination, and should you want to, all the basic grey knights gubbins are there for you as well.

The problem with a Coteaz list is after "troops, assassins, Coteaz/Inquisitors"... that's it, you have to start allying, or bringing in Grey Knights. I mean, theoretically I think you don't NEED to, such is the versatility of henchmen, but if you want any kind of heavy hitter they'll have to be brought in from outside.

[lord_khaine]

The problem with a Coteaz list is after "troops, assassins, Coteaz/Inquisitors"... that's it, you have to start allying, or bringing in Grey Knights. I mean, theoretically I think you don't NEED to, such is the versatility of henchmen, but if you want any kind of heavy hitter they'll have to be brought in from outside.

But if you was making a "Mechanicus" list here, then there would be a lot of great options in reflavoring other Grey Knight units to suit your needs.

Like Paladins as Heavy duty combat servitors, and so on.

[Requizen]

Is there an easy way to get Necron Scarab bases other than Warrior boxes? I have the 5 that came with the Battleforce and am planning to get another Warrior box (total of 8), but I was considering getting some Spyders and feel like I might need some more. $16 + shipping for 3 bases from Forgeworld seems like a bad solution though...

[Wraith]

Rather than consider what you wont do, what will you do?

Now, THAT'S really the question, isn't it? Closely followed by "are they a good idea to play", perhaps.

I think the bottom line is that I want something that looks unique - either an army that few other people play, or one with a distinct theme that you don't see anywhere else.

Orks - I don't care for painting a horde of Ork Boyz, but Nob Bikers are still pretty scary, if somewhat weakened by 6th Edition, and Dreadmobz are there too. And they're virtually unknown around here in any guise, which is nice.

Dark Eldar - I've never used an army that consists entirely of vehicles and/or bikes. I could perhaps consider an Eldar Jebike army as an alternative, depending on the differences between the two, but if I'm collecting a new army then I might just go the whole hog.

Tyranids - I think I'd play an "All Reserves" list, Outflanking/Infiltrating Genestealers backed up by Trygons and whatever stuff needs to go into a Spore. Although we can't be sure how the new book will turn out, the one thing we DO know is that those rules (Deep Strike, Infiltrate and Outflank) are in the BBB so they'll probably still work the same come their release in (supposedly) January.

"Witch-Hunters" (Coteaz + IG Allies) - Probably the front runner at the moment, due to the added compatibility with Imperial Guard to play a 'Mechanicus' army. I don't know much about IG though; is there a way to take Storm Troopers as Troops Choices? My vision involves several Chimera packed with those guys, not unlike how they could be taken in the actual Witch Hunters Codex, though I could just use the Trooper models to represent Warrior Acolytes.

And if all else fails.... I can use Coteaz, buy 6 GK Stormravens, put 3 Warrior Acolytes in each one and call it a day. I don't need ALL of those friends, right?

If you're any good at converting, you can literally use any model in the entire GW range (except Tyranids)

Bio-Archo-Flagellant on a leash, anyone?

Is there an easy way to get Necron Scarab bases other than Warrior boxes?

eBay? I was browsing other stuff, but I quickly looked them up and found as many as 4 bases for a couple of dollars.

Of course, what you're basically doing with that is buying other peoples' bitz and leftovers that they got with their Warrior boxes, but don't intend to use. Maybe ask around at your local FLGS and see if anyone else is of the same mindset?

[Renegade Paladin]

I don't know much about IG though; is there a way to take Storm Troopers as Troops Choices? My vision involves several Chimera packed with those guys, not unlike how they could be taken in the actual Witch Hunters Codex, though I could just use the Trooper models to represent Warrior Acolytes.

No, there's not.

[deuterio12]

"Witch-Hunters" (Coteaz + IG Allies) - Probably the front runner at the moment, due to the added compatibility with Imperial Guard to play a 'Mechanicus' army. I don't know much about IG though; is there a way to take Storm Troopers as Troops Choices? My vision involves several Chimera packed with those guys, not unlike how they could be taken in the actual Witch Hunters Codex, though I could just use the Trooper models to represent Warrior Acolytes.

Tecnically no, however veteran guardsmen with three special weapons and carapace armor in a chimera are a troops choice, and I don't think anyone will mind if you use stromtrooper models for those, as long as you don't have elite-choice stormtroopers of course.

[Penguinizer]

I'm curious, does anyone here know much about Forgeworld's Horus Heresy? I'm wondering what to finish my army with, but can't decide.

Here's what I currently have (and 15 Breachers I still need to get):

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HQ:
Legion Centurion, Master of Siege, Cataphract Terminator Armor, Thunder hammer and Volkite Charger, 1 Phosphex Bomb. 157

Elite:
Apotechary, Artificer Armor. 55

Troops:
15x Breacher Siege Marines, 3 Melta Guns, Legion Vexilla, Powerfist and Breaching Charge for the Sergeant. 360

10x Breacher Siege Marine, 2x Melta Gun, Legion Vexilla, Powerfist and Breaching Charge for the Sergeant. 295

10x Breacher Siege Marine, 2x Melta Gun, Legion Vexilla, Powerfist and Breaching Charge for the Sergeant. 295

Heavy Support:
2x Medusa, Phosphex Shells. 310

Total: 1472

I'm hoping to bring it up to 1750 to 2000 points. I can't decide what to add though.

[Cheesegear]

Well, it's Saturday here in Australia, and the report is in. The Adepta Sororitas suck. Anything that was even barely usable (like all the Special Characters) took a nerf, and that's not even any good to begin with. Acts of Faith are One Use Only, which massively sucks.

However, they are kind of okay at killing a ScreamerStar. So they're good for Allies...Maybe.

...And people thought copy-pasting would be the worst thing that GW could do...

[Voidhawk]

Well, it's Saturday here in Australia, and the report is in. The Adepta Sororitas suck. Anything that was even barely usable (like all the Special Characters) took a nerf, and that's not even any good to begin with. Acts of Faith are One Use Only, which massively sucks.

However, they are kind of okay at killing a ScreamerStar. So they're good for Allies...Maybe.

...And people thought copy-pasting would be the worst thing that GW could do...

Wait, they NERFED them?! What, in all the totality of Heaven, Earth, and the depths of HELL, inspired them to do that??

[LeSwordfish]

They want to drop the range, i guess.

[Grim Portent]

Perhaps they've come to view sisters a similar way to squats: a piece of outdated stuff they can't stomach updating.

I can't see them trying to retcon them away or drop the range entirely but I can see them ignoring them for years more.

[Squark]

Wait, they NERFED them?! What, in all the totality of Heaven, Earth, and the depths of HELL, inspired them to do that??

Well... Celestine was kind of bonkers. Then again, they kind of needed her to work.

[Wraith]

Wait, they NERFED them?! What, in all the totality of Heaven, Earth, and the depths of HELL, inspired them to do that??

More to the point, HOW did they manage that? The entire Codex can, at best, be described as "Space Marines, but worse in every way"; how you can go downhill from there.....

.....Unless you have Sisters of Battle murdering each other for blood to use in sorcerous rituals, of course.

[Timberwolf]

I'm curious, does anyone here know much about Forgeworld's Horus Heresy? I'm wondering what to finish my army with, but can't decide.

Here's what I currently have (and 15 Breachers I still need to get):

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HQ:
Legion Centurion, Master of Siege, Cataphract Terminator Armor, Thunder hammer and Volkite Charger, 1 Phosphex Bomb. 157

Elite:
Apotechary, Artificer Armor. 55

Troops:
15x Breacher Siege Marines, 3 Melta Guns, Legion Vexilla, Powerfist and Breaching Charge for the Sergeant. 360

10x Breacher Siege Marine, 2x Melta Gun, Legion Vexilla, Powerfist and Breaching Charge for the Sergeant. 295

10x Breacher Siege Marine, 2x Melta Gun, Legion Vexilla, Powerfist and Breaching Charge for the Sergeant. 295

Heavy Support:
2x Medusa, Phosphex Shells. 310

Total: 1472

I'm hoping to bring it up to 1750 to 2000 points. I can't decide what to add though.

How about some heavy, ranged anti tank, like some lascannons or some rhinos to get the breacher squads up the field.


As to the sisters, it was never a case of if theyd suck, it was a case of what theyd change to achieve the holy grail of uselessness. Ive got a game today against someone eho decided to buy them in great anticipation of this release. I will report back on what theyre like on the table but I cant say im anticipating them to be overly challenging.

[Eldan]

More to the point, HOW did they manage that? The entire Codex can, at best, be described as "Space Marines, but worse in every way"; how you can go downhill from there.....

.....Unless you have Sisters of Battle murdering each other for blood to use in sorcerous rituals, of course.

But that could actually work, in a Warhammer Fantasy Dark Elves kind of way. Sacrifice a squad member to activate an Act of Faith, something like that.

[Wraith]

But that could actually work, in a Warhammer Fantasy Dark Elves kind of way. Sacrifice a squad member to activate an Act of Faith, something like that.

Hmm.... Perhaps if we refluffed it as some kind of martyrdom - a Sister sacrifices herself in the name of her duty, rather than her just being gunned down by her squadmates at their convenience - that would actually be quite an interesting and consistently fluffy mechanic.

Although perhaps not now, in the WD Codex, at least, that would even be somewhat viable, as Sisters could come in units of 20. It'd suck if they were in Space Marine-sized Tactical Squads.... Man, so many problems would be solved if the GitP guys wrote Codices.

[Penguinizer]

How about some heavy, ranged anti tank, like some lascannons or some rhinos to get the breacher squads up the field.

Hmm, some Devastators would probably be good. Sadly though, Breachers can't actually take Rhinos, only Land Raider Phoboses.

As for lascannons, Heavy Support Squads cost many points. I'm considering two units of 2 Rapier Weapons Batteries with Laser Destroyers, would that work?

[Cheesegear]

Am I dumb?
A Dark Angels story

So, Space Marines came out, and 'nullified' Dark Angels. Or did they?

Warlord Traits

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#2 Space Marines = #4 Dark Angels.
#4 Space Marines < #3 Dark Angels.

#6 Space Marines vs. #2 Dark Angels
Space Marines gain D3 VPs for Challenging enemy Warlords with their own Warlords. Space Marines have ways to maximise this with Relic weapons and stuff. But, it's random.

Dark Angels can't really maximise this kind of thing. Luckily, it's random. Fortunately, it applies to the whole unit, and allows Sweeping Advance. So, that's kind of cool.

The rest;
1. SM; Fear sucks. | DA; Run is usable.
3. SM; Great.
5. SM; Warlord is a Banner | DA; Reserve manipulation. Call this one a draw.
6. DA; FNP is awesome and you should feel good about yourself.

I'm willing to flat out say that Dark Angels win on the Warlord Traits.

Combat Squads
Dark Angels do it better. No. They're not the same.

Wargear;

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Dark Angels have Power Fields and some neat Banners that Marines don't get at all. Moving on.

Regarding Relics;
Dark Angels have the Mace of Redemption at 30 Points vs. the slightly worse SM Teeth of Terra for 35. So, there's that.

Then Marines rock out with Shield Eternal and Burning Blade. While both are really good, both are also really expensive. So, there's that. However, DA's don't have any equivalent.

Chapter Tactics;

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All Dark Angels - except Scouts - are Stubborn, except when they're Fearless. Which Space Marines both losing Combat Tactics and Veteran Sergeants now costing points, Dark Angels don't auto-roll over in Assault like Marines do. However, since Marines can't be Swept anyway, so it's kind of debatable how useful Stubborn even is. However, Fearless is quite fantastic. Speaking of...
Dark Angel HQs are Fearless and have Preferred Enemy (Chaos Space Marines). Both of these rules are passed to squads.
Dark Angel Librarians may take Divination - and Power Fields!

When I think of Dark Angels this way, they're certainly better than Black Templars and Raven Guard. With the new rules for Imperial Fists, as well as Dark Angels' 'Bolter Banner', Dark Angels also make better Fists than actual Imperial Fists, so that's kind of weird. I have no idea why they took away Fists' Stubborn. Maybe Sentinels of Terra will fix it?

So far, Dark Angels stack up pretty well. Not as good as some of the better Ultramarines or Salamanders builds, but definitely not 'nullified'. Like, if you play Dark Angels instead of Ultramarines, it's not like you will lose and you should feel bad about your life choices. But, you will have a slightly greater chance of losing. That's it. With that said, let's get to the nuts and bolts.

Units

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Command Squads: Basically exactly the same (except that the DA Company Champion sucks). I'll have to do the math on the DA Chapter Banner vs. Standard of the Emperor Ascendant, but, the DACB, being less points, is already attractive. Anyway, the only Command Squad that Marines even care about is the Bike Squads.

Command Squad (x5); Bikes - 135 Points
Ravenwing Command Squad (x5) - 200 Points

Now, on the surface, that looks awful. But, keep in mind that the RWCS has Twin-Linked Plasma Guns, S5 Rending in Assault and a Grenade Launcher. Now, assuming you spend 15 Points on each SMCS model (Power Weapon or Lightning Claw, Plasma or Grav Gun, or, make one an Apothecary) brings you to 210 Points. RWCS will likely chuck an Apothecary in to make 230. Now it looks a lot less terrible, doesn't it?
However, RWCS also has H&R, Scouts and Skilled Rider.

Now, if you're White Scars, Marines can kind of do this too. But, the comparisons there are so direct that Ravenwing vs. White Scars will get it's own section (but not in this post). But, ultimately, playing White Scars and Kor'Sarro has an opportunity cost of not being Ultramarines, Salamanders or Iron Hands and not taking a Librarian with Divination (oh, Marines don't get that, nevermind). Wheras Dark Angels can always take a RWCS if they really want it. Because, the point is, simply, if you want Dark Angels to be effective, don't try to build a Space Marine list.

Moving on.

(SM) Honour Guard: Honour Guard are amazing. Though underused, simply because there really isn't any real reason to take them. But, if you're in a tournament playing some sort of 'Special TO-devised Mission' where taking Honour Guard would be advisable...Dark Angels can't really match you.

(SM) Sternguard/Ironclad/LotD: Ditto.

(DA) Deathwing Knights: If you're playing Dark Angels, Space Marines have nothing in their 'dex that even holds a candle to this unit. They're just so good. If you're playing Dark Angels, you'd better be bringing this unit (otherwise why aren't you playing Space Marines?), or,

(DA) Ravenwing Black Knights (and Darkshrouds): Ditto. If you're playing 'non-spammy-bulls*' lists, the reason that you're playing Dark Angels is to grab one or both of the 'Knight' units. They're both stellar units. Black Knights even more so when backed by an HQ model with a Power Field.

Then Marines finish their 'dex with Stormtalons, Thunderfire Cannons and Centurion Devastators.

TL;DR
You want Dark Angels; Bring Raven and Death Knights, Power Fields and Banners.
You want Marines; Bring Stormtalons and Thunderfire Cannons.
...With Flier Defense and the ability to wipe hordes off the board, Marines are normally going to be a better choice.

If your meta isn't filled with 3+ Fliers per army, and 50, 60, 70+ Infantry models on the board, Dark Angels are perfectly fine. If your meta is filled with those things, Dark Angels can not 'stand alone' very easily. You'll need to bring in Allies, and, if you - as Dark Angels - aren't abusing Power Fields and at least one of their Banners, then you're doing it totally wrong, then you really are playing 'bad Space Marines' - but not as bad as Sisters of Battle Adepta Sororitas.

[Squark]

I think the Imperial Fists lost Stubborn because they wanted to make Codex Marines "cool" again, and, frankly? With the 6th edition assault changes... Stubborn is a very niche rule for Loyalist Marines. It's relevant a) when a unit failing a morale check would mean it's destroyed (It's been surrounded or it's near the edge of the board) and b) when your opponent has one of the handful of rules that reduce leadership (Uh... Imperial Guard's battle psyker group is the only thing that comes to mind). Otherwise, marines have only a handful of units that want to stay in assault (So failing morale checks is a good thing provided you weren't the one launching assault, and if you didn't want to be there, why would you?), and (especially for Dark angels), it's not terribly difficult for marines to make a unit fearless if you really need a tarpit.


Stubborn would be pretty decent for marines if you could turn it on and off. But then, it wouldn't really be "stubborn," now would it?

[Cheesegear]

when your opponent has one of the handful of rules that reduce leadership (Uh... Imperial Guard's battle psyker group is the only thing that comes to mind).

Blood Angel Army of Fear comes to mind - Blood Angels aren't dead!

Otherwise, marines have only a handful of units that want to stay in assault

Scoring units never want to fall back. Then, when you jump out of Troops, Dark Angels have Fearless DeathKnights for Elites, and Hit & Run RavenKnights in Fast Attack. So, AFAIC, everything works out perfectly.

Anyway, the point is, why should you play Dark Angels? If you can make it work; DAs have Stubborn, SMs don't. If that's something that you feel that you need, then play Dark Angels. For example, getting run at by ScreamerStars. The less that they're allowed to run around the board, the better off you'll be, because you can't shoot them anyway.

it's not terribly difficult for marines to make a unit fearless if you really need a tarpit.

Well, no. It's not difficult per se. But, to do it usually means taking a Chaplain, and the thought of that makes me go "Errngh..."

[Squark]

Well, no. It's not difficult per se. But, to do it usually means taking a Chaplain, and the thought of that makes me go "Errngh..."

>.> Sorry, for some reason I wasn't thinking codex marines. Every Loyalist marine chapter except Codex Marines has a reasonably easy way to make a fearless unit (Dark Angels have Inner Circle, Space Wolves have Wolf Priests, Blood Angels have Sanguinary Priests*). Which, when we're talking about codex marines, is kind of irrelevant.



*At least, I think they give fearless. There's so many redundant instances of furious charge and fearless in that book that the two rules blur together in my mind when it comes to Blood Angels.

[Grim Portent]

Don't know if this has been brought up yet but I just saw that GW are releasing an Imperial Fists codex supplement. It's up for pre-order on their website atm. Not sure why they feel it's necessary seeing as each founding chapter got it's own special rules already.

[Closet_Skeleton]

*At least, I think they give fearless. There's so many redundant instances of furious charge and fearless in that book that the two rules blur together in my mind when it comes to Blood Angels.

Sanguinary Priests do not give fearless.

Red Thirst and Chaplains do, but you'd only ever take a Blood Angels chaplain to put in Death Company who are fearless anyway (even then you don't because you'd rather have 5 more death company than make them all reroll to hit and wound). Blood Angels chaplains are literally useless since Librarians are the same points and can give you re-rolls to hit every round not just when charging.

Also, a Wolf Priest is just a Space Wolf Chaplain with a few minor differences.

[Timberwolf]

So I played against the Sisters today in a 1000 point kill point game.

Me

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Wolf Lord
TH/SS
Thunderwolf
Runic Armour
Saga of the Bear
Necklace

Rune Priest

3 Wolves
2 Storm Shield
Powerfist

Grey hunter x 5
Plasma gun

Grey hunter x 5
Plasma gun

Grey hunter x 5
Plasma gun

Long Fangs
4 Missile Launchers
Heavy Bolter

Sisters

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Canoness
Power Sword
Mantle of St (Ophelia I think, it gives Eternal Warrior)

10 Sisters
Storm Bolter
Heavy Bolter
H/B Immolator

10 Sisters
Storm Bolter
Heavy Bolter
H/B Immolator

10 Sisters
Storm Bolter
Heavy Bolter
H/B Immolator

Exorcist

I took the Thunderwolves at the request of my opponent because everyone likes to kill those. I would have spent the 50% of my points total another way otherwise.

First of all, my opponent was using a pretty tailored list, my stuff was there to see on the table while he was making his list up. Since this was a friendly and the first run with the new book, I didn't worry about it and just got on with it. However, it does somewhat skew how effective the Sisters may seem as normally there would have been at least 1 Vindicator and everything else the Wolf Lord and 235 points of Wolves would let me get.

Anyway, long story short, the game ended on turn 6 with his last few sisters in combat with my last squad of Grey hunters and about to be charged by an angry Wolf Lord who was on his last wound. It hadn't been going well for them up till that point and was about to get worse. I'd lost a lot of stuff, but with a general list against one geared to produce a lot of dakka, I'm not overly surprised by that. The nuns are still BS 4 with a 3+ armour save, just like Marines and I'd have lost as much as I did to that many marines too.

As to my impressions...

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The Canoness, now that Eternal Warrior is available for her, is actually a surprisingly effective tarpit against units that rely on smashing opponents into the ground in the first round of a challenge, like my Wolf Lord. Especially if she's lucky with invulnerable saves (she was...) On my first look through the Codex, which wasn't long as it was on a teeny little tablet and my eyesight's not the best, it also doesn't look like there's anything stopping you from loading up on as many relics as you like, so as far as I can tell on a very quick impression, you can stock up on the Cloak of St Aspira as well for rerolled armour saves. Don't quote me on that though. Against something that throws a lot of armour save ignoring attacks, like Abbadon, she's toast, but so's pretty much everyone else and against someone like Lysander or Calgar, she may actually be rather decent at surviving if not killing them as even the Relic sword is not enough to go through a 2+ armour save.

Sororitas, there's lots of them, they're BS 4 and cheaper than Marines. See the next section.

Immolators are interesting. They seem reasonable. I didn't catch the points cost, but it can't be that much. Essentially they're upgunned Razorbacks with the same transport capacity and, through Dominion Squads, easy outflank capability. Immolators have always been solid though and a couple of Twin Linked Multi Meltas / Heavy Flamers is always nice.

The Exorcist is the same, unpleasant but random. Of course, my opponent being lucky with his rolls for number of shots meant it was awesome but equally, he could have thrown only a couple of shots a turn which is not so great. Still, nasty, long range, good armour. It's a basically a less reliable Predator.

The Acts of Faith, while on once per game, are, from what I saw, more useful, including one that gave Preferred Enemy and another which gave Hatred which are the ones I saw. Yes, you only get them once. but they were helpful.

I only saw one Warlord trait, but a 5++ Shield of Faith Save is rather handy and saved my opponent more than once.

Ok, so, while I won against a tailored list with an utterly sub optimal, general purpose list that lost too much for my comfort to squeeze in the unit my opponent wanted to play against, the Sororitas didn't fold like a house of cards and kept it together until the end. How much of that is due to the fact they were built to destroy my, whilst mine was built to do everything (kind of) I couldn't say. While the Codex is the laziest thing I've every read, essentially whoever is responsible just phoned this one in. In my opinion, there is at least some potential, even if this is me trying to make the best of it and find a niche for an army I want to play.

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In all honesty, I can see the Sororitas being worth at least considering as an allied detachment. What they will bring to the table is not flashy or exciting, but it will help win things in 5 out of 6 game types, which is always nice.

If I remember reading correctly (which is far from a given), you can take up to 20 nuns with guns, all with 3+ armour and BS 4. With a Canoness as your HQ choice, I'm sure you can see where this is going. Yep, crewing a quad gun, with an objective, armed with weapons of your taste, behind an Aegis, which pretty much anything else can do too.

However, where the Sisters score is through being a Power armoured horde. 20 Sororitas with a decent cover save will take some shifting by anything short of AP 3 flamers, which are by no means that common. even a Heldrake / outflanking Baal Predator will have trouble nailing them all (and however many Krak grenades survive will probably see off the Predator). Throw in a Canoness with the Eternal Warrior and Sword of Admonition to help deal with anything that does manage to close after being ventilated by up to 40 Bolter shots, the Quad gun and whatever Heavy / Special Weapons you gave them and I reckon your home objective is in reasonably safe hands that aren't going anywhere for the duration.

If points allow, throw in an Exorcist, Immolator and a Dominion squad of outflanking flamers in another Immolator, probably in that order too, and that should be reasonably solid, if not terribly exciting addition that opens up a few options like roasting scoring units off the objective in the last couple of turns.

TLDR - Sister's ain't great, but there may be a use for them. Unfortunately, it's something that everyone else can do as well.

[Squark]

Sanguinary Priests do not give fearless.

Red Thirst and Chaplains do, but you'd only ever take a Blood Angels chaplain to put in Death Company who are fearless anyway (even then you don't because you'd rather have 5 more death company than make them all reroll to hit and wound). Blood Angels chaplains are literally useless since Librarians are the same points and can give you re-rolls to hit every round not just when charging.

Also, a Wolf Priest is just a Space Wolf Chaplain with a few minor differences.

In Fluff, yes. Mechanically, the Wolf Priest blows any other chaplain variant away. The 5th edition version was similar to the Chaplain (Both granted fearless and re-rolls to hit in close combat in certain situations), but since the Wolf priest did that by giving Preferred Enemy against a unit type... Plus, for 10 points more, you get stealth and outflank. Frankly, if the chaplain in codex marines was a carbon copy of the wolf Priest, I might consider the chaplain the default HQ over the Librarian.

[Cheesegear]

>.> Sorry, for some reason I wasn't thinking codex marines. Every Loyalist marine chapter except Codex Marines has a reasonably easy way to make a fearless unit

Codex Marines - A Chaplain, bad. Except for Cassius. Or Black Templars.
Blood Angels - The only good Chaplain is a Reclusiarch, and you only take him to put in Death Company, and the only reason you take a Reclusiarch is because you can't take a Librarian because you're Allied with Black Templars. In any case, the Death Company are Fearless anyway. Death Company in a Primary Detachment (without Black Templars) are not bringing a Reclusiarch.
Space Wolves - Wolf Priest. The only reason you take one is because you have Blood Claw blobs, and, since Tau and Eldar hit the scene, I can count the number of times I've seen Blood Claws on the table on one hand.

Dark Angels - any HQ, to the extent that Dark Angel Chaplains are absolutely useless. Your HQ tax can be anything you want, and you automatically get a Fearless unit out of your 'tax'. ...Because, you know, how awful is a Librarian with Divination and Power Field? Don't you hate it when you have to take one of those?

Mostly, the only reason Chaplains get taken, is to BattleBro into a Guard or Kroot Blob. But, Dark Angels can get Fearless by taking an HQ that they actually want, at any points level.

Not sure why they feel it's necessary seeing as each founding chapter got it's own special rules already.

Did you spot the Iron Hands supplement coming next?

Why Black Legion? Why Farsight? Why Iyanden?
Abaddon, Farsight and Wraith-Troops are already in their respective Codecies. Why do anything at all, ever?

Because it introduces new Characters and new ways to play each army. Which is great!
Because it's a hobby, and people like more stuff pertaining to stuff they like.
And releasing extra stuff (especially when it's digital) is basically printing money.

So I played against the Sisters today in a 1000 point kill point game.
[...]
TLDR - Sister's ain't great, but there may be a use for them. Unfortunately, it's something that everyone else can do as well.

I don't think you can accurately summate the Sisters in 1000 point games. I'd try and make two or three 'top' builds at 1500, run an ATC-style mission (all the objectives!), and then try to scale down what units actually work into 1000 Points.
...But, that's how I do things, and I what do I know?

Unfortunately, only one player in my area actually cares about Sororitas...And he sucks. Both on the table and as a person and I have no inclination to play him. But, as far as I can tell, they're 'Salamanders, except worse', and the only reason that Sororitas lists will see play at all is as Allies, and tailored against ScreamerStars for the Perils-causing Boltguns.

[lord_khaine]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squark View Post
when your opponent has one of the handful of rules that reduce leadership (Uh... Imperial Guard's battle psyker group is the only thing that comes to mind).
Blood Angel Army of Fear comes to mind - Blood Angels aren't dead!

*cought*RunesOfBattle*cough*

[Grim Portent]

I find myself wondering if the Imperial Fists supplement will let Space Marine players play a main detachment of Space Marine Imperial Fists and then take an allied detachment of Sentinels of Terra Imperial Fists.

[bluntpencil]

I find myself wondering if the Imperial Fists supplement will let Space Marine players play a main detachment of Space Marine Imperial Fists and then take an allied detachment of Sentinels of Terra Imperial Fists.

Very possibly, because, apparently, Sentinels of Terra is all about the Imperial Fists' Third Company.

Their Special Rules (replacing normal Imperial Fists) are:

Short-Ranged Bolter Drill: Re-roll all misses (not just 1s) fired with bolter-type weapons fired at half-range or less.

and...

Centurions as Elites, Assault Centurions as Fast Attack.

Good for mech and drop-pods, maybe?