Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

[Wraith]

So, I've finally gotten around to updating my 'usual' lists with the new Codex: Space Marines, and - as well as a delightful points reduction in my existing units - I've decided to drop the Assault Squad from my Black Templars.

As I like to play at a round 2000pts, the cuts mean that I am delighted to announce that I have 180pts left over to play with. What does the Playground think would be a good way to round out the Sons of Sigismund?

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HQ: Chaplain
+ Terminator Armour
+ Combi-melta
+ Meltabombs
+ The Shield Eternal

HQ: Emperor's Champion

TROOP: 10x Crusader Squad
+ CCW & Bolt Pistols
+ Sword Brother
+ Melta Bombs

TROOP: 10x Crusader Squad
+ CCW & Bolt Pistols
+ Sword Brother
+ Melta Bombs
+ Land Raider Crusader

TROOP: 10x Crusader Squad
+ CCW & Bolt Pistols
+ Sword Brother
+ Melta Bombs
+ Land Raider Crusader

HEAVY: Land Raider

HEAVY: Predator ("Annihilator")
+ Lascannon Turret
+ Lascannon Sponsons

HEAVY: Predator ("Annihilator")
+ Lascannon Turret
+ Lascannon Sponsons

I like Land Raiders.

I'm very keen to keep the Chaplain as my HQ since they're decent fighters, relatively cheap and adore the BT Chaplain-Terminator model, but I think I can possibly do without the Shield if I have to.
If I *do* drop that, I have enough left over for a squad of five Sternguard with Combimeltas, in a Drop Pod. I also like Sternguard. Anyone have any better ideas?

[Renegade Paladin]

So, since I haven't had a chance to open the book yet, I'll ask my usual Marine codex release question: Does the codex contain any way to make Terminators into Troops, in an allied detachment or otherwise?

[Alex Knight]

A purely fluff list for perusal. 2,002 points.

Phaeron Jayzen of the Sukethanem Dynasty

HQ

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Necron Overlord (Jayzen)
Phaeron, Warscythe, Sempiternal Weave, Phase Shifter, Ressurection Orb

Transport:
Catacomb Command Barge

Elites

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3x Triarch Stalkers

Troops

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2 Units of 10x Warriors each, 1 Unit of 9x Warriors.

Transport: 3x Ghost Arks

Fast Attack

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1 Unit of 6x Wraiths

1 Unit of 10x Scarabs

Heavy

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3 Units of 1x Canoptek Spyder each. Each Spyder has the Fabricator Claw upgrade

The Sukethanem Dynasty has no Lychguard, and will not tolerate Destroyers. Warriors must be deployed with Ghost Ark support, and the Phaeron has given his Immortals to his consort's command. Because of the Dynasty's unusual sensitivity to actual troop losses, they make heavy use of Canoptek machines and the single C'tan shard held in a torturous prison by Consort Kahme.

[Rakaydos]

So, since I haven't had a chance to open the book yet, I'll ask my usual Marine codex release question: Does the codex contain any way to make Terminators into Troops, in an allied detachment or otherwise?

No, but... hmmm.

An allied Calgar can bring 3 drop pods full of 10 guys each, in Artificer armor, without taking ANY slot except your allied HQ.

Take a couple minimum tacticals with pods to bring all three Honor Guards in turn 1...

[Renegade Paladin]

No, but... hmmm.

An allied Calgar can bring 3 drop pods full of 10 guys each, in Artificer armor, without taking ANY slot except your allied HQ.

Take a couple minimum tacticals with pods to bring all three Honor Guards in turn 1...

While that would be hilarious, I have a bunch of Terminator models that I came into by chance which I'd like to use at some point, so it doesn't help my specific problem.

[Cheesegear]

Guide to Codex: Space Marines
The Adeptus Astartes

Special Rules

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Combat Squads: With very few Missions requiring Kill Points, getting double the amount of units per FOC slot is nothing short of quite good. If, you're ever in a position where playing multiple small units of Marines would end badly for you (i.e; AP3 Blast/Templates, Kill Point Missions, etc.), you can just keep your units of ten. For this reason - and this reason alone - it's really hard to justify why you would ever have less than 10 Infantry models per squad that have this rule.

Warlord Traits:
1. NOBODY CARES ABOUT FEAR! STOP TRYING TO PUT IT IN THE GAME GW!
2. It would be better if it was permanent. Especially on units with Hit & Run. Since it's only One Use. Blergh.
3. You get to cast Prescience once per game. Seriously. That's what it is.
4. Probably the most useful Trait. But it's random.
5. Not great. Usable. But not great.
6. Ew. It's really hard to get it to work. But when it does...It's random. While it's rare that you'll ever actually get to use it as it's intended, it will dictate what your opponent can and can't do with their Warlord. And that, can actually make or break the game more than an extra few VPs could.

Chapter Tactics - and Special Characters

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During list creation, you must choose what Chapter you're playing. And, before you jump the gun, come up with a random paint scheme and play 'All The Chapters', be aware that not all Chapters are conducive to fielding all models. You're actually seriously - seriously - better off picking a Chapter you like and building them, and then Allying in another Marine Chapter. Rather than trying to switch and swap every other game. Or, you can just paint the scheme you like and swap the shoulder rims to the colour of the Company that you think would use the Chapter Tactics that you need.
i.e; In a Codex Chapter, the 4th Company Captain is titled 'Master of the Fleet', and this Company are the guys that travel around in Space and therefore use Drop Pods a lot. Their shoulder rims are Green. Guess which army likes Drop Pods and is normally Green; The Salamanders! This makes absolute sense to do this, if you want to play Salamanders but don't like Green as your Chapter's primary colour.

Speaking of Allies. Yes. You can Ally within your own Codex. But, only if you use different Chapters. If you play 2000+ Points with multiple FOCs you're probably not going to notice the difference. But, yes. Being Battle Brothers with yourself is quite good for giving different Chapters different Chapter Tactics.
i.e; Using a White Scar Independent Character to give your Black Templar Crusader Squads Hit & Run.

Ultramarines

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You have three turns - over the game - to make your army's proverbial magic happen. Tactical Doctrine is usually good on turn 3 or 4 when your army is typically in position to start doing a lot of Rapid Firing, or, if you need your Plasma to do stuff, or you're about to use your Gets Hot! ammo on your Sternguard. Assault Doctrine doesn't help you a whole lot, probably it's biggest draw is Jump-Fleet Infantry. Unfortunately, leaving your Jump Packs on your Assault Marines isn't exactly the best thing you can do with that unit. Devastator Doctrine is especially good on the turn that your opponent's Fliers come onto the board. Overall, there's nothing exceptional about Ultramarines' Tactics. Essentially, your goal is to put a Battle Company on the board. But, Ultramarines do have some really good Special Characters, and that's what you're really looking at.

Marneus Calgar: He has a 2+ save and can Sweeping Advance, he has AP2 weapons, and can switch over to his at-Initiative weapon if he needs to, and he's got Eternal Warrior. As far as Warlords go, he's solid. But we're not done. He rolls 3 times on the Warlord Traits table (RAW: Given the specific page reference, it seems he can only roll on the Space Marine Traits), but, unlike Asurmen, he can only pick one of them. This may make up for the fact that you can re-roll and you always get 3 rolls. Unlike Asurmen who is random and more random. The Armour of Antilochus is 10 Points to give him a Teleport Homer and to make him Relentless for his Orbital Bombardment (see; Chapter Master entry), and, he gives the ability for Ultramarines to choose to fail Morale checks, which, coupled with ...And They Shall Know No Fear is far more useful than you think it is. That's about it. He's really good. But he's also really expensive.
Triple Honour Guard is just too expensive to be useful. Feel free to ignore that box.

Captain Sicarius: 'The Everyman'. He has one of the not-good Warlord Traits, but, he also has #4 on permanently, and for every Ultramarine on the board, which is useful. He's decent, but you can make a better Captain of your own. He does a lot of things. But, he doesn't do any of them particularly well.

Chief Librarian Tigurius: Brilliant. He's the only Mastery Level 3 Psyker in the book. He can choose from any Discipline - even though you'll only ever choose from Divination or Telepathy, and rarely Telekinesis - and can re-roll his Powers to further get the Powers that you really want. Furthermore, he can re-roll his Psychic Tests, which means that he'll rarely suffer from Perils of the Warp, and he has a defense against Tyranids' Shadow of the Warp which normally doesn't do nice things to regular Psykers. And then, you can re-roll Reserves. If you're playing Ultramarines, you need a really good reason not to take Tigurius. He's really that good. His Warlord Trait is also good!

Chaplain Cassius: Crap Warlord Trait. But arguably the best Chaplain in the book. If, for whatever reason you need to bring a Chaplain, bring Cassius instead of whatever you thought was a good idea.

Sergeant Telion: BS6 Troops model? Hellooo Icarus Lascannon! Oh, right. Pay 50 Points to give your entire Scout Squad Stealth (another tick for an Aegis). He's quite good when you set him up right, because he should have a 2+ Cover Save all the time, and his Scouts with him should have 3+ Cover Save from Stealth. Well, don't go out and immediately buy Ultramarine Scouts. But, if you are going to do that, you're doing yourself a disservice if you don't pick up Telion.

Sergeant Chronus: For 50 Points, you can turn one of your Tanks into an Iron Hands' Tank with BS5 with better-than-Extra Armour. Not too shabby. Put him in a Predator, Hunter, Stalker, Land Raider or LR Crusader. If you've got 50 Points at the end of your list and you have a decent Tank in your list...It's Sergeant Telion or Chronus. They're both good, but neither are required.

White Scars

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All Bike units in your army gain Skilled Rider, except they don't. Which means that Skilled Rider will stack on the extra Jink save, if you can figure out a way to make that happen (i.e; Battle Brother in Sammael from Dark Angels). Furthermore, everybody in your army not Terminators or Centurions gains Hit & Run which means that your Space Marines in Assault can get out of where they aren't too good.

Kor'Sarro Kahn: All friendly White Scars which are Bikes or that have Dedicated Transports gain Scouts - even Terminators and Centurions. If you can't afford Bikes, it doesn't matter; If you bring Kor'Sarro, you can still get a functional army out of White Scars, and a not too shabby one either, especially when you factor in that you also still have Hit & Run. Scouting Assault Marines with H&R are really good.
Kor'Sarro has a decent Warlord Trait, especially when paired with Moonfang that causes Instant Death, just look out with enemy Warlords with a 2+ save (which will be a lot of them...So...Yeah).
If you're playing White Scars, you're bringing Kor'Sarro. On a Bike, on Foot. It doesn't matter. He gives everything that matters Scout. He's just really good.

Imperial Fists

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Bring Boltguns and Devastators, and Centurion Devastators. It's not that difficult a concept to understand. Who have Boltguns en masse? Tactical Squads and Scouts, in a pinch, you can bring Terminators. Unfortunately, Sternguard are specifically exempt from this rule unless they fire as regular Boltguns - and what's the point? Imperial Fists make both of your standard Troops choices really aggressive. While you can bring Bikes, they're Twin-Linked anyway. If you actually do go out of your way to put in Devastators into your list, you'll find that Imperial Fists are a much better fit for your army than Ultramarines if you aren't bringing Tigurius to throw out Prescience. So, yeah. Be Imperial Fists if you like your Troops units that aren't Bikes.

Captain Lysander: It's hard to see where this guy fits. With The Shield Eternal and Salamanders gaining a Master-Crafted weapon for free, or Iron Hands giving IWND, it's hard to understand why Lysander costs so much?
You're paying 55 Points for an extra Wound, a S10, AP1 Thunder Hammer and the nova to re-roll Morale Checks. Given that you're guaranteed Champion of Humanity, and that you don't want to be paying extra points for Veteran Sergeants; Is Lysander worth it? ...Tentative yes.

Pedro Kantor: RAW: Even though Pedro Kantor is an Imperial Fist, his special rules indicate a Crimson Fist Detachment, and, the reference on page 158 clearly indicates that because Kantor's Chapter icon is different to Lysander's, they are actually different Chapters, even if Kantor does technically count as having Chapter Tactics (Imperial Fists).
Second, Dorn's Arrow is not a 'Bolt Pistol, Boltgun, Storm Bolter or Heavy Bolter'. It does not re-roll 1s To Hit - neither do Sternguard.
So, what does Kantor do? He makes Sternguard Scoring. And Sternguard are actually kind of good. Second, he is the best way to use Honour Guard, which aren't even that bad. So, if you want to use Sternguard en masse (it's not a bad choice), or, if you're thinking about actually using Honour Guard (again, not a bad choice) or just playing Imperial Fists at all, bring Kantor.

Black Templars

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Your Characters get Prescience and Rending when in a Challenge...So, if your opponent refuses the Challenge, or, there is simply no-one to Challenge, your Characters do what? Go easy on their enemies? The nullified aspect of this wont come up too often, but, when it does, it's super-annoying.
Also, all your models get Crusader and Adamantium Will. The former is okay, but the latter is to make up for the fact that you aren't allowed to have Librarians - but you can Ally them in.

High Marshal Helbrecht: Once per game he can give your whole army Fleet, and then, using his Warlord Trait, he gives his unit Furious Charge for a single turn of dominance. Other than that though? Maybe if you bring Honour Guard he'll actually be useful. Why is he so expensive? You're paying a lot of points for one turn.
RAW: Helbrecht does not count as a Chapter Master. If you want to abuse this, then do so. You should.

Chaplain Grimaldus: He's slightly better than Helbrecht for the slower Templars on foot or for Black Tides. Due to his selection of buffs that he throws out, it's hard to imagine how any Black Templars army could be successful without him. ...Or just bring Bike Templars. That works too. But 'Bring Bikes' is a copout in 6th Edition, so, I'll try not to use that one too often.

The Emperor's Champion: He's Fearless. But that's about it. But, Fearless is why you want him because you can't make a Chaplain better than EC. Unfortunately, his stances (and Black Templar-ness) only work in Challenges and when he's not fighting in a Challenge he's kind of weak which doesn't make any real sense. I suppose it makes sense if a Marine could 'forget' how to fight multiple foes...But, that doesn't happen so WTF?

Crusader Squads: Straight off the bat you'll notice that you can take 5-man squads with Special and Heavy weapon, and that's pretty good. Unfortunately, without spending points to grab the Sword Brother, you're missing out on the point of Black Templars. But who cares? 5-man teams with dual weapons, right? Also, you can take Land Raider Crusaders as Transports, which is helpful when you've filled your Heavy slots with not-Land Raiders and still want to bring Land Raider walls. Take big squads if you want to make it to Assault and actually matter.

Iron Hands

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Everyone gets FNP (6+). That's really underwhelming. You'll save one model or one wound out of 6. That's it. Then all your Characters get It Will Not Die which is similarly underwhelming because nearly all your Characters only have one Wound, with the exception of HQ models and Centurion Sergeants.
Then, all your vehicles get IWND too. The only Chapter that has its Tactics work on vehicles! Unfortunately, like on Character, IWND on vehicles only works when you're not Destroyed. IWND doesn't stop Penetrating Hits from doing anything. Which means that you want the most armour possible, with the most number of Hull Points - Land Raiders. And then your Forgemasters and Techmarines can fix vehicles slightly easier. But, like IWND, Techmarines can't fix what is actually broken.

Salamanders

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You can re-roll your Saving Throws vs. Flame-based weapons, as defined in the Rulebook. So, if it's a 'fire-based' weapon that's not in the rulebook - say, like, a Baleflamer - you don't get your re-roll. Then, in addition, all Salamanders who have those same weapons are Twin-Linked. Combi-Flamers for everyone! It's nice. But it wont win you the game.
But, then all of your Characters get a Master-Crafted weapon for free! And yes! You can Master-Craft the Relic Weapons. This is actually really good way better than giving your one-Wound Characters IWND, yeah, that's really helpful .

Vulkan He'Stan: Artificer Armour? Check. Relic Blade? Check. Storm Shield? Check. He'Stan has brought all the gear that a decent Captain should have. But then he goes and puts a Twin-Linked (Salamanders, remember?) Heavy Flamer, and then Master-Crafts all of your Melta weapons. Since this is independent to Chapter Tactics, this includes the Melta weapons on vehicles, too. And, since you're Master-Crafting Combi-Meltas, some of your other Characters can then use their 'free' Master-Craft on their Chainsword to be better in combat, since he'll lose an attack for bringing a Combi-Weapon. He'Stan, himself, can Master-Craft his Bolt Pistol - not that he'll ever use it.
Bring Sternguard and Command Squads with a lot of Combi-Weapons. Make sure you give the Sergeant - Character - a weapon that isn't a Combi-Melta or Flamer (like a Combi-Grav or -Plasma) so he can Master-Craft it anyway.
RAW: Because Special Issue Ammunition is firing instead of their normal profile, Sternguard with Combi-Meltas will not have Master-Crafted SIA. But, if for some reason you want to shoot the Combi-Meltas as Boltguns, then you will get the bonus shots.

Raven Guard

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Everyone in your army that doesn't have a Jump Pack, Bike or Terminator Armour, or Centurions, gain Scout. So, that's really good if you want to play non-Bike White Scars and don't want to pay the points for Kor'Sarro. And, those same units gain Stealth during the first game turn only - this is kind of dumb since Night Fight exists and you'd get it anyway. But, otherwise, an entire army with Scout is nice.
But, then you've got another bonus to Jump Infantry which makes them twice as fast (this is to make up for not getting Scout, I assume).
Ultimately, Raven Guard have the worst Chapter Tactics if you aren't specifically playing for it. This is the ultimate CT that you can't just decide to play your army as Raven Guard today because it's just not going to work.

Shadow Captain Shrike: Don't play Raven Guard without him. If you have to play Raven Guard at all. Even though he's Jump Infantry, he has Stealth. But, instead of Scout, he has Infiltrate which he then passes on to any unit of Jump Infantry that he's joined - which is only going to be Assault Squads or Vanguard, and then he also has a pair of Master-Crafted Lightning Claws that Rend. Shrike isn't exactly good. But he's not exactly unusable either.

HQ

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Chapter Master: With four Wounds and four Attacks - as well as the lack of any good ranged weapons - this guy is a clear beatstick. Rush him forwards as fast as you can, in a Land Raider, Stormraven or Drop Pod, this guy should be in the centre of every fight and winning.

Relic Blade / Teeth of Terra; Cheap.
Storm Shield / The Shield Eternal; Always bring a Storm Shield, but, with extra Wounds, Eternal Warrior is great on this guy.
Artificer Armour; Always take.
Thunder Hammer; With Shield Eternal, this guy will put the serious hurt on pretty much anything.
The Burning Blade; It's expensive, and, you can end up doing yourself some damage which isn't great.

Jump Pack / Space Marine Bike; The Jump Pack lets hit climb stairs and ladders, and the Bike gives him move speed, better Toughness and makes Bike Squads Troops. The Bike also gives Relentless so you can shoot your Orbital when you move.

Honour Guard: Two attacks each. 2+ Save. As well as the option for a few Relic Blades. Not great for the most part. But, if you know your meta, the ability to equip Axes or Maces will allow you to roll your enemies in nearly every game. Must have a Drop Pod or Land Raider.

Captain: Cheaper than Chapter Master, lacks the wounds and attacks and the Orbital. There's only one reason not to take a Captain, and that's if you're taking a Chapter Master instead.

Storm Shield / The Shield Eternal; In contrast to the Chapter Master, the Captain has less Wounds and less base attacks, making the expensive Shield Eternal less effective than it could be.

Artificer Armour
Relic Blade / Teeth of Terra; The Rampage ability gives your Captain even more attacks.
Jump Pack / Space Marine Bike; Always have one of these two, unless in a Drop Pod or Land Raider.

Power Axe & Power Maul
Lightning Claw and Power Fist; Two variants of the same concept. However, bringing a Storm Shield as well is missing the point. Which makes this early-6th Ed. build is a lot less effective because of the Relic Weapons.

Command Squad: The main goal of this unit is to have a 3++ and/or FNP. If you don't have or can't build that, don't bother. The Vanguard box is a huge step in the right direction. These guys arguably fill the same role as Sternguard or Vanguard, without achieving anything close to the same effectiveness as actually taking one of those units. If you want to build a Command Squad, check out Sternguard and Vanguard sections in Elites. The main limitation of the Command Squad, is that you have to take a Captain, rather than a Chapter Master.

Space Marine Bikes; Putting FNP on a T5 unit with 3++ becomes a real threat that armies that aren't Space Marine variants or Imperial Guard can have real trouble dislodging.

Terminator Captain: Next.

Librarian: A tough sell. Doesn't have access to Divination, can't reliably get Powers that you actually want, and doesn't quite do what a Chapter Master/Captain with The Shield Eternal (gives Adamantium Will, remember?) couldn't do. If you aren't already playing Ultramarines and auto-taking Tigurius...Probably Battle-Brother in Tigurius or a Tau Buff Commander or any other non-Codex Marine variant that does have access to Divination.

Jump Pack
Space Marine Bike
Terminator Armour & Storm Shield
The Armour Indomitus; Take one of the above.

Chaplain: Against models with a 4+ or worse save, the Zealot buff that a Chaplain provides is slightly more useful than having a Chapter Master with Thunder Hammer in the same squad. Against everything else, your unit turns into a Chapter Master Delivery System. If you know your meta, a Chaplain can be useful. But, a Chapter Master is going to be more useful, more often.
If you need to make a unit Fearless (such as a Death Star), including a Chaplain is never a bad idea.

Master of the Forge: His only real use is to spam Ironclad Dreadnoughts.
Conversion Beamer & Bike; Not only are you dropping your extra attacks for a Conversion Beamer that you don't need, but you're now really expensive for a model that is basically just a tax.

Techmarine: No. If they were Independent Characters...Well...Still no.

Servitors: Ablative wounds for your Techmarine Master of the Forge, so you don't give up your Slay the Warlord on your tax model, as well as a really cheap way to add Plasma Cannons to your gun line.

Troops

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Tactical Squad: Yes. Just bring them. Always bring them in squads of 10. If you have extra points at the end of your list, Veteran Sergeants on your Troops units should always be a consideration when you're weighing what to take other than spamming Melta Bombs. Your Heavy weapon favourites should be; Multi-Melta, Missile Launcher (+/- Flakk Missiles) or Lascannon. Your Veteran/Sergeant can pick up a Combi-weapon of your choice and maybe even Melta Bombs if you still have spare points for some reason.
Drop Pods are your friend.

Scout Squad: You always want at least one unit of Scouts. Either as Infiltrators to block opposing Infiltrators and Scout moves, or to get into a good position early, or, as a cheap backline Scoring squad. Scouts are just so cheap that it's just silly not to take one unit of them.
Camo Cloaks; Only for use on Objective campers.
Shotguns; Get your head out of 5th Ed. Keep your Boltguns instead.
Combat Blades; You need something on the order or 40+ Scouts to make this anywhere near close to being effective. But, if you really, really want to...Go ahead.
Sniper Rifles; Large squads of 10 will bring the pain. Even if it does cost a little extra points.

Land Speeder Storm: A 55 Point Boltgun team in a Storm with a Heavy Flamer is surprisingly effective and catches a lot of opponents off-guard. However, during Deployment, don't forget that its Jamming Beacon will absolutely ruin Deep Striking Melta teams. Finally - and most importantly - don't forget about the Large Blast, Blind-causing Cerebrus Launcher, it ruins Tau and Necrons and provides a neat little ace in the hole against everything else.

Elites

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Vanguard Veteran Squad: Raven Guard only, really. A unit of Honour Guard in a Drop Pod is just going to be better.

Sternguard Veteran Squad: Your Swiss army knife unit. Is useful against any opponent, even if you do mess up your wargear options, the amount of redundancy built into the squad just makes these guys really, really good. Just really, really good. Always have one unit in a Drop Pod. Every Space Marine army should have at least one Drop Pod in their army, and these boys are 90% likely to be unit that you're going to use.
x4 Combi-Meltas, x4 Combi-Gravs/Combi-Plasmas, x2 Heavy Flamers + Drop Pod is your optimal load-out. Scale down to suit. If you know your meta, you can wreak absolute havoc, because like Honour Guard, Sternguard are simply that customisable. Not to mention that with Combat Squad out of a Drop Pod or Stormraven for extra firepower...I'll stop. Just take Sternguard. Even a unit of 8 with a pair of Lascannons behind an Aegis as a 'pillbox' is fairly scary.

If you want to take more than one unit (not counting Combat Squads) you. Are. Taking. Pedro Kantor. Sternguard in Drop Pods and Devastators and Thunderfires in the back.

Dreadnought Venerable Dreadnought: Multi-Melta & Heavy Flamer in a Drop Pod is a cheap alternative to your Sternguard (especially if Salamanders). Your other choice is a Plasma Cannon and Missile Launcher.

Ironclad Dreadnought: One of the few Walkers in the game that are actually any good. The Ironclad does not have a Storm Bolter. It has a Heavy Flamer and is 145 Points base. Fact. With double Hunter-Killers and a Meltagun, an Ironclad is a scary opponent to most vehicles. If you need a Drop Pod and aren't bringing Sternguard, an Ironclad is a close second-choice for Drop Pod units. Even better if used by Iron Hands.

Legion of the Damned: These guys make Thousand Sons look like a joke. AP5, Ignores Cover is far, far, far more useful than AP3. And 3++ is better than 4++. Obviously. If you aren't taking Sternguard, you need a really, really, really good reason not to bring LotD to substitute in. Not only are the models awesome, but, Plasma Gun & Plasma Cannon that Ignore Cover are 'Space Marine Heldrakes', except better. The only downside to this unit is that it must always Deep Strike, but, you can re-roll the Scatter dice for awesome times. If you're ever thinking about taking an even number of Drop Pods, don't. Lose the last Pod and bring LotD instead.

Terminator & Terminator Assault Squads: I'll bunch these two together because they function practically the same. GW still thinks that units of 2+ are actually scary, and have therefore priced them under that fallacy. Only Character models with 2+ Saves are any good because they can Challenge and Look Out, Sir! to avoid taking unnecessary damage. But, a unit? Most 2+ units get hit by AP2, Large Blast weapons, or get thrown under the Monstrous Creature bus. The only way that Terminators work is by fielding a Land Raider to go with them. And that's even more expensive.

Centurion Assault Squad: Only use is as a cheaper source of Land Raiders than Terminators, which you lose if you take up to two Meltaguns, which you should.

Fast Attack

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Assault Squad: No. Vanguard are better, even though they cost more points. The math works out. Unfortunately, the Elites section is so cluttered that it's hard to take Vanguard. But, you're not going to not have that in Fast Attack. So, in a nutshell, the only Assault unit in this Codex worth a damn are Crusader Squads and Honour Guard, which means you're playing Black Templars.

Land Speeders: Only use is Multi-Meltas with Vulkan He'Stan. Otherwise ignore.

Stormtalon Gunship: An amazing Flier. Due to the model specs, don't forget that the Assault Cannon actually counts as a turret. Fly over a vehicle, and Twin-Linked Assault Cannon said vehicle in the Rear Armour. Unfortunately, you lose the ability to fire your fixed arc other weapon;
Skyhammer; Cheap and decent.
Twin-Linked Lascannon; Another good choice if you don't have it elsewhere.
Typhoon Missile Launcher; Expensive is bad. But it still isn't as bad as it otherwise could be.

Bike Squads: If you aren't taking these as Troops, then should be bringing at least one unit of Bikes with Grav-Guns anyway just to obliterate enemy armoured units. If you're using them as Troops...Well, just keep doing that, but more. No matter what kind of list you're running, it's hard to justify not including at least unit of Bikes because Bikes (and Jetbikes) are the best Unit Type in the game (followed closely by Flying Monstrous Creatures). If you want to bring an Attack Bike, always bring a Multi-Melta (unless you're Imperial Fists, at which point your meta dictates what you're bringing).

Attack Bike Squads: If you're taking any, you're taking three, and they all have Multi-Meltas (exception is Imperial Fists).

Scout Bike Squads: Nope. There's no point. Yes, you can have a minimum unit with a Locator Beacon, but no. That's not worth it either.

Heavy Support

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Devastator Squad: Rarely, do you need more than one unit.
Plasma Cannons, Missile Launchers and Lascannons. Go team. If you're playing Imperial Fists, give these guys Flakk Missiles and put them behind a Quad-Gun and you have Flier Defence covered. Remember to put a few extra bodies in the unit just for ablative wounds, and, for the odd Big Guns game (which is normally a staple for most tournaments).

Centurion Devastator Squad: You never need more than one unit.
Grav-Cannon; Always take.
Missile Launchers; Take Devastators instead.
Twin-Linked Lascannons; You know what a Land Raider is, right?

Thunderfire Cannon: Always bring one! Two! Three! They're amazing! Just, absolutely yes. Barrage is good for Character sniping and it clears out hordes really well.

Predator: Only reason to use one is if you have one. It's fine. But hardly an optimal choice. Autocannon & Lascannon Sponsons is the only weapons you should ever take. If you play Apocalypse even semi-regularly, make sure to magnetise the turret.

Whirlwind: It's cheap, and that's cool. But it outclassed very quickly by the Thunderfire Cannon.

Vindicator: A good choice if a Thunderfire Cannon isn't required in your meta.

Hunter & Stalker: Get an Aegis Defence Line. Way to fail, GW.

Land Raider / Crusader / Redeemer: Your meta determines which one you want. If you're playing with the latter two, bring the Multi-Melta.

Stormraven Gunship: You're not Blood Angels. You don't need more than one. The Stormstrike Missiles are Concussive and that's amazing when you follow up with a Chapter Master with Thunder Hammer, but, Grav weapons also do that job. Stormravens' other job is to transport Ironclad Dreadnoughts if you find yourself scratching your head as to whether or not to take an even number of 'Pods (hint; don't).

Allies

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Blood Angels: Mephiston/Dante, Corbulo and super Stormravens.

Dark Angels: Better Librarians than yours. As well as a Ravenwing Command Squad that can bring the auto-Hit & Run Banner makes a solid unit if you aren't on the 'Scars Wagon. Stubborn Troops also gives you a decent Scoring presence for no extra cost (aside from your Chapter Tactics).

Eldar: Not being Battle Brothers makes these guys only 'good', not great. Their Divination wont effect your other units and you can't bring the nigh-indestructible Seer Council. But you can still bring Jetbikes and a Wraithknight.

Grey Knights: Same problem as Eldar. Good units that you can bring if you want to. But not being Battle Brothers makes them sub-optimal.

Imperial Guard: Good. But not great.

Space Wolves: Grav (Concussive) weapons and Jaws of the World Wolf equals awesome. A couple of Thunderwolves and it's hard to find why you wouldn't do that because it's just so effective at dealing with threats. For high Initiative armies like Eldar, fine. Your Rune Priest swaps to Divination and Battle Brothers are awesome.

Tau: Battle Buff Bro'Mander, Interceptor units, mass Kroot Infiltrate denial/Linebreaker units, and Broadsides and Skyrays are just really good.

Don't bother with any Desperate Allies. They offer you nothing.

Forgeworld
TBA

[ZeltArruin]

To be fair, Raven Guard outside of 24" get +3 to cover saves, so that's something?
*During night fight

[Closet_Skeleton]

I like Land Raiders.

I'm very keen to keep the Chaplain as my HQ since they're decent fighters, relatively cheap and adore the BT Chaplain-Terminator model, but I think I can possibly do without the Shield if I have to.
If I *do* drop that, I have enough left over for a squad of five Sternguard with Combimeltas, in a Drop Pod. I also like Sternguard. Anyone have any better ideas?

You have no neophytes. Ten man squads aren't spam enough. You have way too much free space in those crusaders, they might as well be empty.

You haven't listed any special weapons either. As just a guy with an extra attack, those sword brothers are a waste if they don't have a special equipment. Wounds (neophytes) over 1 attack (sword brother). Melta bombs are for when you want a power sword or axe rather than a power fist, they're not worth bringing the sword brethren alone. Melta bombs don't save you from walkers or monstrous creatures..

Can Terminator characters even take melta bombs? That feels wrong but looks legal.

The obvious answer would be to ditch the predators for some real anti-air, but my Black Templars collection doesn't let me do that either so we may have the same problem.

[shadow_archmagi]

Yesterday I had an eight-man Fire Warrior squad slay a Wolf Lord Terminator that rushed them. Admittedly, he took two wounds during the mass supporting-fire Overwatch, but it was a lowly Shas'La with a melee weapon that finished him.

(Fun fact: Tau seem to benefit tremendously from Purge the Xeno. Supporting Fire and Markerlights and soforth give Tau a lot of reasons to stick together, and having to send Troops to distant map objectives tends to force them to split up.)

[Squark]

So, uhh... Picked up a third drop pod for my Space Wolves, and there was an extra base sprue... any ideas what on earth I should do with it?

[Renegade Paladin]

So, uhh... Picked up a third drop pod for my Space Wolves, and there was an extra base sprue... any ideas what on earth I should do with it?

Objective markers?

[Grim Portent]

So, uhh... Picked up a third drop pod for my Space Wolves, and there was an extra base sprue... any ideas what on earth I should do with it?

Kitbash or scratchbuild something using it? A bit of terrain perhaps. Maybe a modified tank.

EDIT: Annoyingly GW don't have pictures of the drop pod sprues on their website and I've never built one so I don't know what the extra parts you have are like.

[Forrestfire]

Call GW about their box having an extra sprue. Maybe they'll send you a new one

[Rakaydos]

I believe this is an 1750 list

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Space wolfs/IG Melee Rush list. (HQ deathstar + Support)

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Space Wolves:
WarlordHQ: Thunderwolf Lord, Artificer, Belt of russ, PF+WC, Saga of the Warrior Born, 1 Fenwolf
HQ: Thunderwolf Lord, Artificer, Stormshield, Pfist, WTT, 1 Fenwolf
HQ: Canis Wolfborn, 1 Fenwolf
HQ: Thunderwolf Lord, Artificer, Stormshield, WClaw, WTT, 1 Fenwolf

Troop: 12-13 Fenwolves (cannot score)
Troop: 12-13 Fenwolves (cannot score)

IG:
HQ: CCS, 4 meltaguns, Chimera (hull flamer)

Troop: Platoon
-PCS, 4 flamers, Chimera (hull flamer)
-10 guard (no upgrades)
-10 guard (no upgrades)

FA: 2 Vendetta squadron

Deployment:

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Standard deployment puts the deathstar in the middle, Shield-Lordsright on the edge of the deploymeny zone, the squad's fenwolf companions 2" side/behind them, and Canis and the Warlord in back. The fenwolf squads deploy several rankes at full 2" separation on either side of the deathstar, within Canis's leadership/leadership reroll bubble. Not sure where the chimeras should go- possibly behind the fenwolves, but I'd be missing out on their full flat-out speed unless the wolves maxxed their run. Cover might be worth it though. "Spare" Guardsmen sit in he vendettas- either they drop on arrival to hold a rear objective or they sit in their birds until turn 5 to contest/steal.

Tactics:

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Mainly this list is about giving your enemy too much to worry about and not enough time to deal with it. Do you shoot the T5 2+/3++ deathstar moving at bike speeds toward you, or the intimidatingly large squads of 6+ T4? (or in this version, the 12AV front Chimeras with a 5+ cover save- though my older version had a drop pod of combi meltas for alpha strike potential) You only get 1-2 shooting phases to decide before 12" move + fleet (run or charge) gets me in your face, and the vendettas are coming in for fire support just before impact. the deathstar can split in half if need be, the Shield Lords tanking challanges for Canis or the Warlord to wreck the rest of the squad- when the Shieldlords die, the Warlord's invuln and armor is better than Canis's. Also the HQs can choose to join the survivors of a Fenwolf squad if you're willing to drop to T4- more LOS bodies.
I havnt had a chance to experiment with the Chimeras, but their short ranged weaponry would be good for sofening up enemy deathstars, given a head-to-head confrontation.

Didnt get much discussion of this one, beyond a mention of "be careful of your rear arc."

Currently I'm looking at an 1850 varient that loses the WTT on the shieldlords and drops the fenwolves to 10 per squad... but runs either a drop pod with 5 combi meltas for first blood potential/demolisher cannon killing, or 4 combimeltas and a Deathwind Drop pod, for a slightly less guaranteed vehical kill but an added threat vs swarm and gunline armies. (that aegis stops looking so hot when a large template is fired from behind it.)
On the other hand, dropping the fenwolves to 10 adds to the possibility of giving up FB that way, too.

And of course, anything that's shooting at a drop pod that's already landed, isnt shooting at a chimera or someone in Artificer Armor.

[Renegade Paladin]

You have an awful lot of not scoring. Ten Guardsmen without upgrades or persistent vehicle support (flyers don't stick around after) will not hold an objective against anything even resembling a serious effort to get them off; I know this from long, hard experience. The platoon command squad might fare better against attempts to sweep them in assault (because 4 template overwatch, not because they're good in the ensuing assault), but are hugely vulnerable to shooting once out of the Chimera.

Four Thunderwolves is... intimidating, but manageable. You'd do better with the warlord in a big ol' unit of Thunderwolf Cavalry, I think; you can get more bodies with the points and when the Demolisher/Medusa/Manticore shells start getting thrown around, they'll hold up better for it. Other than that I don't know a lot about Space Wolves; people who actually play them can help you better there.

[Cheesegear]

Quick and dirty guide to Marines for those who are waiting on me to finish.

This is a list of units that each Chapter makes better. If you like a particular unit, then pick the relevant Chapter. Like everything that I write, this list isn't how you win per se, but it's how you not-suck.

Ultramarines: Tactical Squads, Assault Squads, Devastator Squads.
Imperial Fists: Tactical Squads, Scouts, Terminators, Devastators and Centurion Devastators.
Iron Hands: Land Raiders, Techmarines, and HQ models.
Raven Guard: All Infantry except Terminators, Bikes and Centurions. Including attached Dedicated Transports.
Salamanders: Units in Drop Pods, Characters.
White Scars: Bikes. Also everything.
Black Templars: Characters and fast-moving Assault units.

Auto-includes for every army should be;
At least one instance of Bolster Defences. Because it's so good.
At least two Fliers. Because you play 40K, right?
At least one unit in a Drop Pod. What kind of idiot passes up Alpha Strikes?

[Rakaydos]

You have an awful lot of not scoring. Ten Guardsmen without upgrades or persistent vehicle support (flyers don't stick around after) will not hold an objective against anything even resembling a serious effort to get them off; I know this from long, hard experience. The platoon command squad might fare better against attempts to sweep them in assault (because 4 template overwatch, not because they're good in the ensuing assault), but are hugely vulnerable to shooting once out of the Chimera.

Four Thunderwolves is... intimidating, but manageable. You'd do better with the warlord in a big ol' unit of Thunderwolf Cavalry, I think; you can get more bodies with the points and when the Demolisher/Medusa/Manticore shells start getting thrown around, they'll hold up better for it. Other than that I don't know a lot about Space Wolves; people who actually play them can help you better there.

Against any serious threat, the guard pretty much stay airborn- letting the puppies draw all the fire before dropping on objectives lategame. it's why they're so bare bones, because I dont want them for anything except being scoring.

Thing about a mass of Twolf cavalry... you dont actually get many more bodies. You get 3 wounds of 3++ TWC for the price of a single 3w shieldlord, lose the artificer armor, and lose the Wclaw/Pfist, with worse close combat stats (though a few more attacks) and taking more wounds from templates.
With this, every Twolf Lord has a LOS! puppy- against a real ID threat, they can pass the buck with their 2+ look out sir.

[ZeltArruin]

Call GW about their box having an extra sprue. Maybe they'll send you a new one

That or charge him for it.

[Renegade Paladin]

Apocalypse wonkiness: The Catachan Ambush Patrol gives every unit in it Infiltrate and Move Through Cover, and includes no formation restrictions. Buy ALL the Chimeras and Infiltrate them all over the place, since they themselves have Infiltrate.

Edit: Never mind, in 5th edition you couldn't Infiltrate with a transport, but in 6th you can. Tanks with Move Through Cover are still good, though. And I guess you could Infiltrate them empty if you wanted to for some reason.

Edit 2: Anyway, the reason I was noticing that just then. Was just working up a pair of Apocalypse lists for the game tomorrow, one at 3k and one at 6k (the latter in case there's an uneven number of players and I need to even a side).

3,000 points:

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Apocalypse List

3000 points

Company Command Squad - 200
-Medi-pack, carapace armor
-Three plasma guns
-Chimera dedicated transport

Leman Russ Vanquisher - 180
-Company command tank (IA1)
-Lascannon

Storm Trooper Squad - 115
-Two plasma guns

Storm Trooper Squad - 105
-Two meltaguns

-Veteran Squad - 155
--Three meltaguns
--Chimera dedicated transport

-Veteran Squad - 155
--Three meltaguns
--Chimera dedicated transport

-Veteran Squad - 155
--Two flamers, heavy flamer
--Chimera dedicated transport
---Heavy flamer turret, heavy flamer

Veteran Squad - 200
-Gunnery Sergeant Harker
-Two flamers, meltagun
-Chimera dedicated transport
--Heavy flamer

Veteran Squad - 160
-Sergeant Bastonne
-Three meltaguns

Valkyrie - 130
-Multiple rocket pods

Leman Russ battle tank - 170
-Heavy bolter sponsons

Leman Russ Demolisher - 195
-Multimelta sponsons

-Basilisk - 125

-Basilisk - 125

-Basilisk - 125

Manticore - 160

Baneblade - 575
-Sponsons

6,000 points

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Apocalypse List

6000 points

Company Command Squad - 200
-Medi-pack, carapace armor
-Three plasma guns
-Chimera dedicated transport

Leman Russ Vanquisher - 180
-Company command tank (IA1)
-Lascannon

Storm Trooper Squad - 115
-Two plasma guns

Storm Trooper Squad - 105
-Two meltaguns

Ratling Squad - 50
-Two additional ratlings

[Imperial Shield Infantry Company

Company Command Squad - 150
-Power Fist, melta bombs, two sniper rifles
-Regimental Standard, vox-caster, camo cloaks
-Master of Ordnance

Infantry Platoon - 315
-Platoon Command Squad - 65
--Power sword, heavy flamer
--Vox-caster - 5
-Infantry Squad
--Power axe, flamer, lascannon
--Vox-caster
-Infantry Squad
--Power axe, grenade launcher, lascannon
-Heavy Weapons Squad
--Three autocannons

Infantry Platoon - 320
-Platoon Command Squad
--Power sword, heavy flamer
--Vox-caster
-Infantry Squad
--Flamer, lascannon
--Vox-caster
-Infantry Squad
--Power axe, grenade launcher, lascannon
-Heavy Weapons Squad
--Three missile launchers

Infantry Platoon - 265
-Platoon Command Squad
--Flamer
-Infantry Squad
--Flamer, lascannon
--Vox-caster
-Infantry Squad
--Power axe, grenade launcher, lascannon
-Infantry Squad
--Power axe, grenade launcher]

Veteran Squad - 155
-Three meltaguns
-Chimera dedicated transport
--Heavy flamer

Veteran Squad - 140
-Three grenade launchers
-Chimera dedicated transport
--Heavy flamer

Veteran Squad - 200
-Gunnery Sergeant Harker
-Two flamers, meltagun
-Chimera dedicated transport
--Heavy flamer

Veteran Squad - 160
-Sergeant Bastonne
-Three meltaguns

Valkyrie - 130
-Multiple rocket pods

Valkyrie - 130
-Multiple rocket pods

Vendetta - 130

Vulture gunship - 145
-Six hunter-killer missiles

Hellhound - 135
-Heavy flamer
-Smoke launchers

Hellhound - 135
-Heavy flamer
-Smoke launchers

Devil Dog - 140
-Multi-melta
-Smoke launchers

Leman Russ battle tank - 170
-Heavy bolter sponsons

Leman Russ Demolisher - 195
-Multimelta sponsons

-Basilisk - 125

-Basilisk - 125

-Basilisk - 125

Manticore - 160

Baneblade - 775
-Sponsons
-Command Tank

Stormblade - 505
-Sponsons

Aegis Defense Line - 100
-Quad gun

Aegis Defense Line - 100
-Quad gun

Aegis Defense Line - 100
-Quad gun

Imperial Bastion - 110
-Icarus lascannon

Imperial Bastion - 110
-Icarus lascannon

The second one there is really stretching my model inventory, and I'm actually not quite sure I have enough basic infantry models for the infantry company, though I probably do. If not I'll sub in some spare storm troopers. Right now I'm deciding whether to take Bombardment for my strategic asset (for on-the-cheap, i.e. doesn't cost a victory point to use, Orbital Strike) or the new and improved On My Coordinates! for extra surprise party hilarity the first time I get charged. If I play the 6k list it'll be both since I'll be on the team with fewer players and get an extra one.

[Cheesegear]

Was just working up a pair of Apocalypse lists for the game tomorrow

It's a difficult thing to say anything about Apocalypse lists, considering the sheer scale of stupidity in the game that your opponent can literally field anything and everything. But, one thing I will say is; Where is Creed's High Command Formation? It's amazing, and you're Guard, so you should have it.

[lord_khaine]

Quick and dirty guide to Marines for those who are waiting on me to finish.

This is a list of units that each Chapter makes better. If you like a particular unit, then pick the relevant Chapter. Like everything that I write, this list isn't how you win per se, but it's how you not-suck.

And ill try to turn the guide on its head, in a attempt to figure out how to beat them.
So far the answer seems to be farseer's and divination

[Cheesegear]

So far the answer seems to be farseer's and divination

Your best bet now is the Jet Council. Everything in the Marine book can now to toe-to-toe with Eldar like a good 6th Ed. Codex should be able to. The only thing that Marines actually 'lost' was Null Zone. Marines have all the tools to smash Eldar in the face if they wanted to. However, right now, everyone is still transitioning from their 5th Edition armies and/or haven't bought all the new kits that they need to beat Eldar...So, you've got maybe a month? The other thing is, that you just can't field all the tools you need, but, maybe with Marines' ability to Ally with themselves, maybe they'll have enough FOC Slots to manage it, depending on points.

The other thing also, is that with Bolster Defences, the only way Eldar can shift a Marine unit off of an objective is with Divination and Ignores Cover, but, getting that power is random and therefore sad face.

[Renegade Paladin]

It's a difficult thing to say anything about Apocalypse lists, considering the sheer scale of stupidity in the game that your opponent can literally field anything and everything. But, one thing I will say is; Where is Creed's High Command Formation? It's amazing, and you're Guard, so you should have it.

Creed himself is still sitting unassembled in my toolbox. I suppose I could fix that real quick.

Incidentally, the strategic reserve rules being what they are, am I wrong to conclude that the astropath and officer of the fleet do nothing and are therefore just a tax on the formation?

Edit: Screw it, just to make sure I have enough models I'm taking out the heavy weapon-less infantry squad and throwing in Marbo since they cost the same.

[Jormengand]

Guys, is there actually any way of making Elysians viable, now that they've lost about their only advantages (Fliers which no-one else had, and demo charges that worked)? Because now, they're just expensive guardsmen with deep strike. Do you just have to throw down SWS'es with meltas and flamers and hope it works?

[13_CBS]

Out of curiosity: do we have any explanations or speculations only why psychic powers, in particular, are selected randomly rather than chosen like they were in previous editions? Did GW think it'd add something meaningful? Balance psychic powers? Something else?

[Eldan]

They took half the magic rules from WHF (leaving out some of the more interesting parts, like the truly massive magical malfunctions). Of course, that doesn't answer the question why they did it there, either.

[Tehnar]

For WHFB I justify it that the wizard has to choose the spells in question before setting out with his army; he doesn't know exactly what he will be up against, so thats why the random rolls.

I guess it could be true for 40K as well.


From a gaming perspective I would prefer balanced powers that you purchase with points.

[Cheesegear]

Out of curiosity: do we have any explanations or speculations only why psychic powers

Probably for the same reason they added random Charge lengths. Randumb is fun! The game is never the same twice! Great, right? How fun is that?

Or, people like WHFB Magic. So, copy that, right? Except let's forget to make ~75% of the Powers any good, and also let's forget that the broken spells in WHFB ruin the game and make Fantasy unfun, but we'll copy it anyway!

I'd rather pay points for a guaranteed Power. Which is why Buff Commanders are so amazingly good. You want Ignores Cover? You can have it. You want re-rolls To Hit? You can have it. Barring very certain situations, those are the two best Divination Powers and Tau can just have them for 30 Points and don't need to worry about Perils.

[Jormengand]

and don't need to worry about Perils.

Or straight-out failing the psychic test.

[Cheesegear]

Or straight-out failing the psychic test.

I don't mind failing. It's a game about dice. It's going to happen.
What I mind is negative resultss for something that's out of my control.

See; FRF!SRF! and the thing about Guardsmen's lasguns not blowing up in their faces.