Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

[Provengreil]

How will I counter Bikes with Eldar?
Play Tau.

...Really?

Allies. tau are pretty friendly, IIRC.

[Squark]

Also, I'm really not seeing what the Fire Warriors are doing to bikes that Kroot with Sniper Rounds aren't (apart from being more expensive and thus meaning less other stuff).

[shadow_archmagi]

Also, I'm really not seeing what the Fire Warriors are doing to bikes that Kroot with Sniper Rounds aren't (apart from being more expensive and thus meaning less other stuff).

Having their shooting multiplied when the enemy is near, or an Ethereal hanging around?

[Yaktan]

Also, longer range than the kroot and not having to stand completely still. Kroot without sniper rounds, on the other hand, are even cheaper.

[Cheesegear]

Allies. tau are pretty friendly, IIRC.

It's just less helpful than it sounds. Especially because Eldar don't need Tau to beat Bikes. Eldar are still one of the top-tier armies that exists. And, you guessed it, they've even got a 4+ Save Troop unit with pseudo-Rending that ignores T5 and 3+ Armour, and they've got ML3 Divination access for reasonably cheap.

Oh, look. Dark Reapers. All the Bikes are dead.
Oh, look. Ruins and multi-storey buildings.

Speaking of Buildings. They don't have Hull Points and Grav Guns don't cause Glancing Hits. Buildings are immune to Grav-weapons. Have you bought a Bastion yet?

[thereaper]

Anyone heard the rumor about SoB? Depending on who you ask, they're either getting a digital codex, or a new digital codex.

Personally, I'm worried either way, because the only reason the people at my GW let me play without the actual codex is because you can't get it legally, and I can not afford an ipad just for 40k.

[lord_khaine]

Personally, I'm worried either way, because the only reason the people at my GW let me play without the actual codex is because you can't get it legally, and I can not afford an ipad just for 40k.

Just buy it, put it on a USB stick to show the GW people, and then also bring a printed backup copy?

Oh, look. Dark Reapers. All the Bikes are dead.

Now im wondering if a Dark Reaper deathstar would be a viable pick, with 10 Reapers, a spiritseer to give them a 2+ cover save, and a Farseer if he can make them ignore peoples cover saves.

[Jormengand]

How will I counter Bikes with Eldar?
Play Tau.

...Really?

Welcome to sixth edition, CG. Enjoy your stay.

[Renegade Paladin]

Speaking of Buildings. They don't have Hull Points and Grav Guns don't cause Glancing Hits. Buildings are immune to Grav-weapons. Have you bought a Bastion yet?

I bought an Imperial Strongpoint box before it was cool.

[Provengreil]

I bought an Imperial Strongpoint box before it was cool.

I made mine with cardboard, toothpicks, and styrofoam.

[Renegade Paladin]

I made mine with cardboard, toothpicks, and styrofoam.

That works too. I did it with tournament winnings, though, since I wanted to plow them back into the club because it was all our money to begin with. I'd never buy a terrain kit otherwise.

[Adrastos42]

So, anyone else at the UK games day? And had we had any info before now that the first supplement for space marin
es will be imperial fists? Because I can confirm it's imperial fists:)
Afraid pics will have to wait until I'm home, but "sentinels of terra" shall aparrently be released digitally in october.

[shadow_archmagi]

So, anyone else at the UK games day? And had we had any info before now that the first supplement for space marin
es will be imperial fists? Because I can confirm it's imperial fists:)
Afraid pics will have to wait until I'm home, but "sentinels of terra" shall aparrently be released digitally in october.

Awwww yeaaaaaah! Fluffwise, the Fists are among my beloved chapters. It'll be interesting to see what happens when they're not a medicore army.

[Adrastos42]

Haven't found any details about the supplement, but I have found that the next primarch will be Lorgar, shoddy pictures later:)

[Cheesegear]

Fluffwise, the Fists are among my beloved chapters. It'll be interesting to see what happens when they're not a medicore army.

But they're not a mediocre Chapter now. As of new Codex, they're the third-best Chapter Tactics.

The Fists are my favourite Chapter. But, I really, really don't want to see another 20 pages of The Iron Cage again. I want it common knowledge that Dorn couldn't give a s* about Perturabo and the Iron Warriors, and that Dorn's real evil opposite was Night Haunter, and, that NH is/was the only thing in the Galaxy that Dorn was afraid of. As the most Good (capital G), Space Marines, I really wish the Fists had more page time. Since they're basically Lawful Good in a universe of Chaotic Neutral. I want more for the 'Paladins of 40K'. I also want it confirmed whether or not Dorn was The Last Primarch.

"Discipline. Duty. Unyielding Will. [...] Unarmed, a warrior with these qualities will still find victory." - Rogal Dorn

I may have worked that quote into my Narrative.
...Any more comments than that, I start delving into the Fluff thread.

I'm also doing Word Bearers for my Pre-Heresy army. So excited for the second Horus Heresy book. The Iron Hands look amazing. Lorgar being pretty much the only traitor Primarch I like since his motivations actually make sense. All the other traitor Primarchs were either just corrupted or having a tantrum of epic proportions.

ION;
Playtested my Fists/Dark Angels vs. Eldar (only 3 Wave Serpents), did better than I expected it would. Burning Blade is amazing. Playtested against dual Riptides - which I won. All in all, I like it. I've found that my opponents are underestimating my Scouts, until the Shooting Phase when being Imperial Fists makes them better at shooting Boltguns. Fairly impressed.

I was also reminded by the Eldar player that Captain Brage is a new and improved Captain Falcon. I'll need to get him to punch out an Avatar soon.

[shadow_archmagi]

But they're not a mediocre Chapter now. As of new Codex, they're the third-best Chapter Tactics.

The Fists are my favourite Chapter. But, I really, really don't want to see another 20 pages of The Iron Cage again. I want it common knowledge that Dorn couldn't give a s* about Perturabo and the Iron Warriors, and that Dorn's real evil opposite was Night Haunter, and, that NH is/was the only thing in the Galaxy that Dorn was afraid of. As the most Good (capital G), Space Marines, I really wish the Fists had more page time. Since they're basically Lawful Good in a universe of Chaotic Neutral. I want more for the 'Paladins of 40K'. I also want it confirmed whether or not Dorn was The Last Primarch.

"Discipline. Duty. Unyielding Will. [...] Unarmed, a warrior with these qualities will still find victory." - Rogal Dorn

I may have worked that quote into my Narrative.
...Any more comments than that, I start delving into the Fluff thread.

I'm also doing Word Bearers for my Pre-Heresy army. So excited for the second Horus Heresy book. The Iron Hands look amazing. Lorgar being pretty much the only traitor Primarch I like since his motivations actually make sense. All the other traitor Primarchs were either just corrupted or having a tantrum of epic proportions.

ION;
Playtested my Fists/Dark Angels vs. Eldar (only 3 Wave Serpents), did better than I expected it would. Burning Blade is amazing. Playtested against dual Riptides - which I won. All in all, I like it. I've found that my opponents are underestimating my Scouts, until the Shooting Phase when being Imperial Fists makes them better at shooting Boltguns. Fairly impressed.

I was also reminded by the Eldar player that Captain Brage is a new and improved Captain Falcon. I'll need to get him to punch out an Avatar soon.

I thought the fists were more Lawful Neutral, and it was the Salamanders who were LG?

[Cheesegear]

I thought the fists were more Lawful Neutral, and it was the Salamanders who were LG?

I can see how you would think that. But I think they both are, just in different ways. Dorn is LG to Curze's CE, which gets brought up in one of the audiobooks.

[Closet_Skeleton]

Salamanders are more neutral good, as much as anything in the Imperium could not be lawful. Salamanders protect people because its their duty, Imperial Fists do their duty because its what will protect people*.

Black Templars are the LN Imperial Fists, even though really they're CE with lawful rhetoric and too many enemies for them to ever need to kill anyone you wouldn't want dead.

*yes, I know that makes implies they're even less different than Gork and Mork

[Adrastos42]

So, Games Day.
I have to be honest, all in all I was kind of disappointed. The move to a smaller venue (to try to make it actually profitable) resulted in the cutting of the parts that I really went for- mostly the battle tables and the scrap daemon. There was actually nowhere at all to play any of the core games, whether as bring your own or pre-set up. The closest was the areas where you could try Fantasy Flight's games and the balcony which showcased computer games. If it stays the same next year I'm afraid I probably won't go. But still, I did find some cool stuff:) Not posting as many pictures as I'd like because the sheer crowds, a terrible camera and lack of skill ruined quite a few while other things I just didn't spot, but these guys seem to have a fairly comprehensive selection: http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2013/...y-uk-2013.html (don't read the comments:P)

Imperial fists supplement:

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No info for this other than what's in the picture I'm afraid.

Lorgar:

Spoiler

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Expected to come out around Christmas apparently.

Kharybdis Assault Claw:

Spoiler

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Also expected around Christmas. Basically a bigger deathclaw pod with a load of missiles. Comes with a flying base or can land, in which case the legs can all extend. The legs come with details specifically designed to fit magnets. Expected transport capacity of "about 20 models", "possibly superheavy" The base has lots of details including magna-grapples, there may be a ramming mechanic?

-Random forgeworld snippet from the guy that did the assault claw- assault weapons pack for Tartaros Terminators will be done "some time".

I managed to speak to Jervis Johnson, he was showing off a little minigame called "scout force" or something he made as a replacement for rolling for first turn. Very dice-based, get 3 of your 5 guys into the enemy side first to win first turn. Rules are in the next WD or I can share them if there's interest?
I also asked him a specific question about the allies matrix- had they considered making changes to the allies matrix via codexes or having supplements be different enough to warrant their own line in the matrix? (I was angling towards the next tyranid codex letting them take allies, or maybe a genestealer cult supplement that could ally with guard/orks/tau or whatever). His answer was essentially yes, they have talked about that a good amount and it may well happen. So that's interesting:) He also said he felt the current allies matrix was too restrictive and he wanted to give players more freedom and to trust the players not to exploit that, which I pass on without comment:P

[Jormengand]

Kharybdis Assault Claw:

What's with GW and the current obsession with Charybdis?

[Rakaydos]

Salamanders are more neutral good, as much as anything in the Imperium could not be lawful. Salamanders protect people because its their duty, Imperial Fists do their duty because its what will protect people*.

Space Wolves are Chaotic Good.

[Squark]

Space Wolves are Chaotic Good.

Depends on the era, and the temperment of the Great Wolf. The Implication in the Horus Heresy Novels is that Bjorn's idealism has shaped the wolves to be a good bit different than they where under Russ.

[Cheesegear]

He also said he felt the current allies matrix was too restrictive and he wanted to give players more freedom and to trust the players not to exploit that, which I pass on without comment.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Oh Jervis, you so silly.

[lord_khaine]

I was also reminded by the Eldar player that Captain Brage is a new and improved Captain Falcon. I'll need to get him to punch out an Avatar soon.

Good luck finding one

[Renegade Paladin]

Power outages while playing Apocalypse are not fun. Night fighting rules automatically in effect? We decided not, but having to fumble around looking for dice in the dark with a flashlight was irritating.

I wound up losing, but still had plenty of firepower back behind my defense lines; it just wasn't letting me get out into the midfield onto objectives. I think I might wind up investing in another three Chimeras and building a mechanized infantry company to serve the purpose. Marbo did gib a Chaos Champion in a challenge and then made mincemeat out of his squad (rescuing some poor Blood Angels Assault Marines in the process, whose sergeant had been refusing challenges for some reason ) before the assault was joined by a Dreadnought.

Speaking of vehicles, the local club has a guy who buys junk models off of eBay and restores and paints them for fun, but he hardly ever plays, so he does his thing and then winds up selling them off in job lots. He offered me a Vendetta and four Russes and told me he'd throw in some miscellaneous Guard infantry he also had. We made a deal, and when he showed up... well I didn't realize that by "some infantry" he'd meant enough Catachans to actually make that ambush patrol formation. A couple of the Russes are made from the old kit too, which is interesting.

[Cheesegear]

Space Wolves are Chaotic Good.

All loyalist Space Marines are Lawful. With most of them falling into Lawful Neutral, and some others falling into Lawful A*hole. That's kind of the point of being a Space Marine and why so many people find them boring as characters.

To continue this discussion, go to the Fluff Thread.

He offered me a Vendetta and four Russes and told me he'd throw in some miscellaneous Guard infantry he also had. We made a deal, and when he showed up... well I didn't realize that by "some infantry" he'd meant enough Catachans to actually make that ambush patrol formation.

That's amazing! But, I'll admit that I'm doing the same thing with a lot of my things too. People want to buy all my vehicles, so I throw in Infantry and a crap-tonne of bitz for free because I'm not using them anymore and I can't seem to sell them (It's like nobody wants DE Wyches anymore...Weird, right?).

[Eldan]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Oh Jervis, you so silly.

We have that as a shop house rule, actually. Everyone can ally with everyone. So far, no problems. Forces that I remember right now are my own Eldar/Tyranids (the eldar are controlling them psionically), Dark Eldar/IG (I think there was some fluff about slaves and brain controlling implants) and Tyranid/IG genestealers.

[bluntpencil]

Dark Eldar/Imperial Guard makes a lot of sense, considering the recent fluff for Only War, where non-Chaotic renegades in the Severan Dominate ally with Dark Eldar, and they are basically armed and equipped like Guardsmen.

[Adrastos42]

This raises the question then, since I'm not good enough to answer it myself, how utterly terrible and unbalancing would it be if everyone could ally freely? I mean, I assume there would be plenty of utterly broken combos, but I don't know most of the books well enough to actually think of them...

And assuming the first option was completely unbalanced, would it be possible to keep it balanced (or no less balanced than now, anyway) if all that was done was the removal of "come the apocolypse" but the current system of battle brothers-allies of convenience-desperate allies was kept so that the most broken combos did have a disadvantage?

[Tehnar]

I think the biggest deal would be if everyone could battle brother. Off the top of my head, orks + eldar psychic support.

Desperate allies for all wouldn't change all that much IMO.

Then again, don't think allies bring as much to the party as they did at the start of 6th, and will bring even less as more armies are updated.