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    Default D&D 3.5 The Ivalice Knight (PrC) (PEACH?)

    The Ivalice Knight

    {table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

    1st|+1|+2|+0|+2|Art of War [Break lv.1], Knight’s Body, Mettle

    2nd|+2|+3|+0|+3|Art of War [Break lv.1], Knight’s Mind, Safeguard

    3rd|+3|+3|+1|+3|Art of War [Break lv.2], Weapon Guard

    4th|+4|+4|+1|+4|Art of War [Break lv.2], Shield Evasion

    5th|+5|+4|+1|+4|Art of War [Break lv.3], Land Holder, Perfect Break

    [/table]

    Hit Die: d12
    Skill Points: 4 + Intelligence Modifier
    Class Skills: The Knight’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Knowledge (nobility and royalty) (Int), Knowledge (geography)(Int), Knowledge (local) (Int), Knowledge (war) (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Spell Craft (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), and Swim (Str).

    Requirements

    Race: Any Race can become a Knight though the most Knights are Humans.

    Alignment: A Knight may be any alignment though their common name may change based on alignment. For example most evil knights are considered “Dark Knights” even though Dark Knights are a totally separate order.

    Base Attack Bonus: +9

    Feats: Any 3 combat oriented feats such as the ones that appear on the Fighter Bonus List (Blind Fight, Toughness) or feats that focus on combating a specific enemy (Mage Slayer line of feats).

    Art of War (Ex)
    Break Techniques are unique Arts of War that have been passed down in the kingdom of Ivalice for centuries. Break techniques are extraordinary abilities that bypasses magic and have been used to strike fear in the heart of arcane and divine casters who get out of line.

    To resist a break technique the target receives a Fortitude save with the Save DC equal to [10 + Knight’s Strength Modifier*]. Break techniques ignore any magical bonuses to saves and thus any bonuses they gain on Fortitude saves from spells, spell-like abilities, supernatural abilities, or magic items don't help the target on this Fortitude save. Undead are not immune to these techniques.

    Broken: When a Break Technique gives the broken condition, any magical properties may not be used (such as breaking a Flaming Weapon, the weapon can't produce the flaming property) and any bonus that the item gives (Attack Roll, AC, Luck, Competence, or even Dodge) is reduced by [Knight Level] to a minimum of 0. When attacking an item that is worn or wielded by a creature that item gains the wielder's Fortitude save bonus.

    Armor Break: Give the target’s armor the [Broken] condition. [1]
    Shield Break: Give Shield [Broken] condition. [1]
    Weapon Break: Give Weapon [Broken] condition. [1]
    Item Break: Choose one item that can be seen and give it the [Broken] condition. [1]
    Speed Break: Reduce the target’s speed to 5ft for [Knight Level] rounds. [1]
    Mind Break: Reduce the target’s Int, Wis, and Cha to 1 for [Knight Level] rounds. [2]
    Power Break: Reduce the target’s Str, Dex, and Con [Knight Level] rounds. [2]
    Magic Break: For the next 24 hours the target must pass the same initial fortitude save each time they attempt to cast a spell, spell like ability or supernatural ability. (Initial DC, same rules apply). [3]

    To hit with a level 1 break technique the Knight must make a touch attack that deals no damage other than what the Break Technique list. The Knight must make an attack versus AC to hit with a level 2 break technique, this attack does normal damage. The Knight may give up any number of iterative attacks to perform Break Techniques.

    Knight’s Body (Ex): The Knight gains "Endurance" and "Steadfast Determination" as bonus feats even if they don't meet the prerequisites.

    Mettle (Ex): As standard ability. If the Knight later gains this ability (or already has it) from another class they may instead choose another level 1 Break Technique.

    Knight’s Mind (Ex): Knights are immune to mind effecting spells and abilities. As a immediate action they may lower this immunity until the start of their next turn. If the character already has immunity to mind effecting abilities (or later gains it from another source) then the Knight can lower and raise this ability as a free action at any time.

    Weapon Guard (Ex): The Knight gains a miss chance equal to their weapon enhancement bonus (max 5) X 10. A Knight with a +1 Flaming Keen Longsword would have a miss chance of 10% whereas a Knight with a +3 Flaming Keen Axe would have a miss chance of 30%.

    Shield Guard (Ex): The Knight may add their shield's base AC bonus (+1 buckler, +1 light shield, +2 heavy shield, +4 tower shield) to their weapon's enhancement bonus when determining the miss chance. A Knight with +3 Heavy Shield would still only gain a +2 to Weapon Guard.

    Safeguard: Immune to Break techniques.

    Titled Land Holder: Gain 150 acres of farm land and a house along with enough servants to run the land and house (who are payed for from the leader of the country due to your great service to the crown).

    Perfect Break: May use any [Break] skill in place of an AoO. The Knight may 1/encounter use two Break techniques during one attack. One of the Break Techniques must be level 1.

    ===

    *: I'm not sure what the DC should be set at. The save doesn't take into account anything other than Con Mod (and whatever else mod you can get to fort saves through class/race) and base Fortitude save. I'm thinking of a relative low but scaling DC since these abilities will be used against a multitude of different types of creatures.

    This is essentially a PrC based off the Knight from Final Fantasy Tactics. I have always loved the Break techniques and never understood why WoTC didn't do something like them for non-casters...oh that's right, non-casters can't have nice things :P
    Last edited by Perseus; 2013-10-27 at 10:43 AM.
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    Default Re: D&D 3.5 The Ivalice Knight (PrC) (PEACH?)

    Hello. Saw your post on the PEACH exchange and I couldn't resist taking a look. I love the idea and I think its a nifty and unique idea. A few comments

    1. I think the break DC should add in your knight level, which rewards the player for taking the class as well as helps the DC scale up against things with large con such as giant monsters or other martial characters
    2. Knight's body is nice but I think you should spread the feats out over two levels, maybe not consecutively. The reasoning is that this class is relatively easy to get into and has no down sides and so would be an easy dip for one level to pick up just a bit to much stuff.
    3. I am confused on this line:
    Base Attack Bonus: +6, may use the BAB gained from this class to enter.
    Do you mean the +1 BaB from level 1 counts for the prerequisite? Why not just require BaB +5 instead.
    4. Lastly, from a flavor standpoint did you want any sort of requirements or restrictions from roleplaying, or requiring a certain group maybe from a campaign setting you have written? Just a thought pointed at the flavor.
    I wish you the best of luck on your class. If you have the time I would love you to PEACH one of my classes. Thanks!
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    Default Re: D&D 3.5 The Ivalice Knight (PrC) (PEACH?)

    Quote Originally Posted by ddude987 View Post
    Hello. Saw your post on the PEACH exchange and I couldn't resist taking a look. I love the idea and I think its a nifty and unique idea. A few comments

    1. I think the break DC should add in your knight level, which rewards the player for taking the class as well as helps the DC scale up against things with large con such as giant monsters or other martial characters
    2. Knight's body is nice but I think you should spread the feats out over two levels, maybe not consecutively. The reasoning is that this class is relatively easy to get into and has no down sides and so would be an easy dip for one level to pick up just a bit to much stuff.
    3. I am confused on this line:

    Do you mean the +1 BaB from level 1 counts for the prerequisite? Why not just require BaB +5 instead.
    4. Lastly, from a flavor standpoint did you want any sort of requirements or restrictions from roleplaying, or requiring a certain group maybe from a campaign setting you have written? Just a thought pointed at the flavor.
    I wish you the best of luck on your class. If you have the time I would love you to PEACH one of my classes. Thanks!
    While I have a couple mins...
    1: I wasn't sure if that might make it a bit to strong. Totally agree though.

    2:Agree but endurance is such a crap feat that it won't feel like you gain anything. It is useful but I've seen it not come up soooo many times. I also don't like giving out a later feat in a chain without handing out the earlier feat.

    Number 3 is written in a way that to allow some multiclassing early on in a class that doesn't gain a point of BAB. Monk 1/Fighter 5/KoI 1 (BAB 6 @ lv.7) can enter this class one level late instead of two (monk 1/fighter 6/KoI 1 @ lv 8) without lowering the level in which a PC can take this.. Also some DMs allow a prestige class to qualify a PC for itself and some DMS don't. This cuts that argument right off haha.

    4: I'll explain later.


    Thanks and I'll take a look at one of hours later today.
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    Default Re: D&D 3.5 The Ivalice Knight (PrC) (PEACH?)

    There should be no argument about whether using the 1st level of a PrC can help you take the PrC. The answer is clearly no, the order you apply level advancements is extremely clear on pg. 58 of the PHB. Step 1 is Choose Class.

    Also your answer doesn't address why not 5 BAB? Your rule means anyone with full BAB can take their 6th level as 1st level Ivalice Knight. Anyone that takes 1 to 4 levels in a 3/4 BAB class, and the other 2 to 5 in a full BAB class, is still delayed by exactly one level. (5 BAB at 6th level, taking their 7th level as 1st level Ivalice Knight.)
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    Default Re: D&D 3.5 The Ivalice Knight (PrC) (PEACH?)

    Also saw your post in the Exchange (Hope you hit up my Vampire Class). And loving Final Fantasy Tactics decided to take a swing at it.

    Thoughts:

    Skills:

    Why are Concentration, and Spellcraft class skills for this class? These skills pretty much only have use for Magic users, of which this class isn't, so it sticks out like a sore thumb.

    Requirements:

    If something isn't a hard requirement, like "Race", I wouldn't list it here. You can include sort of a short Intro Blurb before the requirements to talk about things like common races, religions, etc.

    I would tighten up the Feat Requirements myself. Particularly since Knights in FFT are focused on a particular thing. I would go with Improved Sunder (Makes sense, you break stuff as a class feature). Improved Sunder requiring Power Attack to pick up means that you have the same number of feats required, and they're both Fighter Feats. But it gives more focus and tells someone just by looking at the Requirements what is going to be involved. If you want another requirement I might go with Improved Bull Rush, which fit "Squire" abilities (And isn't terrible to have) for a thematic tie in to the class and nod to the source material.

    Art of War:

    As Ddude said, I'd tie in the Knight of Ivalice's class level to the DC for the Fort save. As is otherwise the DC is going to be pretty low and easy to pass. Consider you marked out Divine Casters as one of their natural enemies they slap down. Say you wanted to Magic Break a Cleric, which means you're going to be at least level 10 to do it.

    Realistically you might have, a 24ish Strength at that point if I remember my games correctly. That means you have 17 DC to the save. Even avoiding magic. A level 10 Cleric would have Con Modifier (Lets call it 16 realistically for a +3) plus a +7 from Class (Possibly more if he PrCed out like you and thus might be +9 or more). But simple, single classed Cleric. So you're talking +10 to the saving throw against your ability, and he'll be able to save successfully on a 7 or more, giving him a 65% chance of not being effected.

    If you added in Class Levels to the Knight's break ability, you end up with the Cleric needing a 12 or more on the roll, only a 40% chance to not be effective. Not the best odds... but better.

    Compare to a worse case scenario, with a Wizard. Likely to have 18 Con at that point (less demanding stat array to start out with). Only a +7 to the save. So with your original he's going to pass on a 10 or better, 50/50. For a best case scenario... not what we'd hope. With class levels tossed in, he suddenly needs a 15 to save. Which means a 25% chance to not be effective. That's good odds for a "Best case scenario" and pretty crippling.

    Power Break, by the way, needs... well... something. Either a duration amount listed, or a Damage listing.

    That said with Power and Mind Break I'd go for less damage. Feeblemind is known as being godawfully effective. In particular I worry about possible combinations with Poison to OHKO. Not the most OP thing. But it leads to possibly odd things. Also note that the way Mindbreak is written it avoids general stat immunities like Undead Template. Which may or may not be intentional. I'd rather see it do something like 2d4 damage to the stats for Knight Level rounds. Still crippling, maybe even MORE lethal. Things that are generally immune to stat damage will still be immune.

    I'd probably also change Speed Break to something more akin to the source material. Something like... "If a target has already acted this round, when you use Speed Break successfully their initiative is lowered 1d6 + Knight Levels in subsequent rounds until they rest for at least 2 minutes. If your target has not acted yet this round their action is delayed for 1d6 + Knight Levels initiative. If this would drop their initiative count below zero they are stunned until your next turn."

    The land holder thing just... it sticks out as "weird". It doesn't really have anything to do thematically with the rest of the class. There's no reference to the Knights really being any type of nobility. Doesn't really fit the source material either as most "Knight" characters you run into are more like professional soldiers than Nobility. The Nobility all tended to be special stuff like Heaven Knights, Hell Knights, Shrine Knights, etc.

    I might suggest replacing it with something like "Master of Arms: An Ivalice Knight is considered a master of equipment and has forged a bond with his blade and armor beyond that or normal heroes. He may use any type of Magical Armor and Weapon to it's full potential, regardless of Class, Race, Alignment, or other limitations. e.g.: A level 5 Ivalice Knight could use a Holy Avenger Longsword with it's full powers as if he were a Paladin, while also wearing +5 Demon Armor without level loss penalty".
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    Default Re: D&D 3.5 The Ivalice Knight (PrC) (PEACH?)

    I'll throw my voice in to the 'Should be BAB +5' camp, as otherwise it's just confusing and doesn't look right compared to other PrC classes.

    I must say that I am very pleased that you've given another option if you've already got Mettle - Something I really dislike in Pathfinder is that a Shadowdancer gets Evasion and Uncanny Dodge at 3rd level, but if you're a Rogue, you've already got them... (I know Uncanny Dodge isn't pointless if you get it twice, but the Evasion thing's still annoying).

    Weapon Guard is a bit confusing. As written, it means that the higher the enhancement bonus on your weapon, the more likely you are to miss with your attacks. Perhaps rewrite as 'dodge' chance or 'deflect' chance or something. Unless miss chance is standard 3.5 jargon?

    Onto the actual PEACHing:

    Also regarding Weapon Guard, if you have a +5 weapon and a tower shield, that gives you a 90% immunity to physical attacks - with a +2 weapon, so at level 9, you can have a 60% immunity. Might perhaps be too strong? Could be 5% per enhancement/shield AC bonus, so it caps at 45%.

    Now, Breaks. I've always liked these as ideas in Final Fantasy games, but my question is why not just Sunder their items instead?

    Sundering is a standard manoeuvre, similar to tripping, bull-rushing and grappling, which provokes an attack of opportunity. You make opposed attack rolls, and then deal damage to the weapon/shield/item if you win.

    The differences between Sundering and Breaking are that Breaking ignores magical benefits, Breaking does not entirely negate the item, and you cannot Sunder armour. The disadvantage with Sundering is you don't get the item afterwards.

    Pathfinder's form of Sundering allows you to Sunder weapons, shields, armour and items. If you deal enough damage to reduce the item's HP to half, it gets the Broken status and receives negatives which are quite crippling. You can also destroy the item if you deal more damage (you can choose to leave it with 1 HP as well, I believe).

    So my suggestion for these Breaks would be to flavour them as Pathfinder-style Sundering attempts, rather than 'merely' weakening the item. The idea of ignoring magical bonuses would go quite nicely towards strengthening it for an Ivalice Knight.

    As for the other Breaks, I feel they may be a bit too strong? Speed Break cripples any melee class if it actually hits, and Mind Break cripples a mage instantly - Particularly since they won't have an easy time of resisting it with their low fort saves and AC. With Mind Break, Magic Break is kind of pointless - A spellcaster needs 10+spell level in their casting stat to cast a spell. Yes, Magic Break lasts 24 hours, but you don't really need it it when you can simply reapply Mind Break.

    Speaking of Magic Break, a level 3 Break - You've not written what you need to do to actually hit with it. Power Break, also, doesn't say what you've reduced their Str/Dex/Con to.

    I'd suggest weakening Mind and Power Break to dealing ability damage equal to your Knight Level or something (maybe twice it), with a maximum reduction of down to 1, for Knight Level rounds. This means that, while it's crippling, it's nowhere near as bad as a flat reduction down to 1. Mind and Power Break should also only affect one stat.

    Speed Break, I think, could be 5ft reduction per Knight Level (max reduction of down to 5ft). That means that while at level 5, most characters will be down to what was previously suggested, the faster classes/monsters will not be so crippled that they can't function after a single attack.

    I apologise if I've just shot down everything you like about the class, but as it's currently written, I think it's a bit too easy to abuse.
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    Default Re: D&D 3.5 The Ivalice Knight (PrC) (PEACH?)

    I would add Heavy Armor and Shield proficiency. They get that as support abilities in FFT. And maybe even swords, to make it appealing to Clerics.

    I agree with ArcturusV, Concentration and Spellcraft should be removed.

    2 combat feats and +6 BAB is too little, you should add something more. For some reason I think Iron Will would fit great.

    Some more break abilities would be nice-AC, attack, damage, saves...

    I'm no balance expert, but Knight’s Mind looks very powerful, maybe limit to a certain number of times per day?
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    Default Re: D&D 3.5 The Ivalice Knight (PrC) (PEACH?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Asteron Questar View Post
    I'm no balance expert, but Knight’s Mind looks very powerful, maybe limit to a certain number of times per day?
    Mind blank is an 8th level spell so level 15 baring cheese and that is not all day. The magic item that provides it is something like 120k for permanent mind blank. I would think getting permanent mind blank at level 7 is a bit to early.
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    Default Re: D&D 3.5 The Ivalice Knight (PrC) (PEACH?)

    Wow thank you all for your comments!

    Some of the things i posted I already realized aftwards needed changed while others I just wiffed on.

    I'm going to give a better reply later with some changes coming.

    One thing I realized I is that Ex martials don't need a pick me up till later levels... I'm going to go with requirements of BAB around 10 or 12.

    Oh and yeah Shield to miss chance was going to be number of times a day as an immediate action but copied and pasted an older wordin.g
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    Default Re: D&D 3.5 The Ivalice Knight (PrC) (PEACH?)

    I got sidetracked by real life. I should be able to do work on this starting tomorrow.

    If anyone has anything they want me to help PEACH send me a PM.
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    Default Re: D&D 3.5 The Ivalice Knight (PrC) (PEACH?)

    Also going to say that you should change the requirements to just +5 BAB if you want this to be a level six class... though with the abilities as they are, I would actually suggest going with a minimum requirement of level 10 at the least (so+9 BAB), since break really seems like something that would scale more evenly when compared to level 10-15 spells and the like.

    I'd suggest changing Broken's DC to 10+1/2 class level+Strength mod, since that is the typical DC advancement pace for a martial class's DCs. If you don't want to scale it off of level, then typically you could get away with 15+Str, but I would still suggest scaling it off of level.

    Mind Break and Body break... Okay, let's put it this way. A level 15 wizard can deal 3d4 damage to one stat at a time. That's a maximum of 12 and a minimum of 3 damage... so on average he'll deal 7.5 (we'll round to 7) stat damage to one stat on average.When used on a wizard to decrease int, that much will, typically, lower their casting ability to level 4-6 spells (since typically at that point they will have somewhere between 21-23 int, and the maximum spell level you can cast is int-10). In the case of these abilities, if you hit a caster they are set to 1 int and cannot cast any spells at all, instantly, and if they are hit with any kind of wis damage, they take 2 permanent wis damage for going insane, if they take charisma damage, well, that means that they can no longer communicate at all... and if you lower them to 0 int through any means, they become helpless until restored. Meanwhile on the physical side of things, a 1 str already means that most character cannot move due to the weight of any equipment they have on them, but lowering them to 0 means that they are paralyzed and helpless... same with lowering their Dex to 0. But Constitution is the scary one... if you lower that to 0 through ANY means, then the character dies, flat out, no saves and no chance to heal them, they are dead... and almost every con damaging poison will now be able to affect them without a problem. Oh, and a level 20 wizard with 1 con? Only has 20 health. Which I personally find hilarious, but you probably dealt that much damage with your attack so they are on the ground, bleeding to death. So what I suggest instead of setting their stats to 1 is instead have the attack deal 2d4 damage to one ability score (or 1d6 if you are damaging 3 ability scores at once) so that you don't instantly kill everything with one swing of your sword by breaking their body, or so you don't instantly cripple every caster to the point where they cannot cast spells at all with a simple swing of your sword.

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    Default Re: D&D 3.5 The Ivalice Knight (PrC) (PEACH?)

    After thinking about it, I've come to like this as a high level prestige class.

    I can keep the same abilities but they will come online around the time spells that do the same thing (cause we all know that we better stay fair to the spell casters :p )

    I'll be giving some changes to the miss chance effects, but by the the last level it will be a permanent effect as long as the IK has their weapon and shield.

    The breaks do need tweaked, I'm not sure if I want them to be random or static.

    I thought to make mind break more like this: For X rounds the target can only cast or trigger spells (spell like and supernatural are considered lower level) up to level [9 - Ivalice Knight Level]. Note:This stops magic item use from UMD and Casters/Creature without completely crippling them. 3rd and 4th level spells and effects are still nice. And really with the number of spells that stop uber chargers and fighter from full attacking... This could work out well as a counter balance.

    Body Break: For x rounds on the start of their turn the target looses a number of hit points equal to 1d6 + IK Strength Mod. As a full round action, a creature with ranks in heal may try to negate that rounds damage. The DC for this check is 20 + IK Level. Magical healing of 30 points or more negates that round's damage but can't stop the following rounds unless the target is hit with a (insert restoration type spells that will work).

    Note: on my phone so I'll (hopefully) reply better later.

    Thanks
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    Default Re: D&D 3.5 The Ivalice Knight (PrC) (PEACH?)

    Ivalice Knight?

    Here I came in expecting to see THUNDER GOD CID, the PrC...

    But we've got Basic Knight instead.

    Still, it fits well enough.

    Still, it could be expanded to 10 levels...

    And since TG Cid has 11 abilities...

    Stasis Sword: "Life is short...Bury! Steady Sword!" (sic)
    Split Punch: "The devil's spirit of restlessness... Split Punch!"
    Crush Punch: "The doom of a planet...Crush Punch!"
    Lightning Stab: "Absorb power in the sky and strike! Lightning Stab!"
    Holy Explosion: "Heaven's wish to destroy all minds...Holy Explosion!"

    Night Sword: "Master of all swords, cut energy! Night Sword!"
    Dark Sword: "Dead or alive .... slash magic power! Dark Sword!"

    Shellbust Stab: "Armor won't help the heart stay sharp! Shellbust Stab!"
    Blastar Punch: "Curses from all directions! Blastar Punch!"
    Hellcry Punch: "Demolish weapons with fury! Hellcry Punch!"
    Icewolf Bite: "Disaster cries out to smash all.... Icewolf Bite!"

    You could hand out two of 'em at level 1 and spread the rest through 9 levels...
    Last edited by Angelalex242; 2013-10-29 at 02:45 AM.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    SolithKnightGuy

    Join Date
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    Default Re: D&D 3.5 The Ivalice Knight (PrC) (PEACH?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Angelalex242 View Post
    Ivalice Knight?

    Here I came in expecting to see THUNDER GOD CID, the PrC...

    But we've got Basic Knight instead.

    Still, it fits well enough.

    Still, it could be expanded to 10 levels...

    And since TG Cid has 11 abilities...

    Stasis Sword: "Life is short...Bury! Steady Sword!" (sic)
    Split Punch: "The devil's spirit of restlessness... Split Punch!"
    Crush Punch: "The doom of a planet...Crush Punch!"
    Lightning Stab: "Absorb power in the sky and strike! Lightning Stab!"
    Holy Explosion: "Heaven's wish to destroy all minds...Holy Explosion!"

    Night Sword: "Master of all swords, cut energy! Night Sword!"
    Dark Sword: "Dead or alive .... slash magic power! Dark Sword!"

    Shellbust Stab: "Armor won't help the heart stay sharp! Shellbust Stab!"
    Blastar Punch: "Curses from all directions! Blastar Punch!"
    Hellcry Punch: "Demolish weapons with fury! Hellcry Punch!"
    Icewolf Bite: "Disaster cries out to smash all.... Icewolf Bite!"

    You could hand out two of 'em at level 1 and spread the rest through 9 levels...
    If I ever make a Holy Knight or Dark Knight I'll get right on that.
    [/opinion]... Usually.

    Weapon Skills (Rough Draft 1)
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...-Weapon-Skills

    Coming soon! Some 8 Bit Sub-Classes!
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...ings)-(WIP!!!)

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