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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Force Missle Mage

    Can you make Force Missile Mage viable without fell drain, fell frighten, and fell weaken. I've seen other builds and advice but almost every one includes the above feats. Can you make magic missile something you actually want to use above really low levels?
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    Default Re: Force Missle Mage

    No.

    Without those metamagics it's just very low direct damage that allows SR and can be neutralized entirely with a low level spell.
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    Default Re: Force Missle Mage

    The problem is, just about anything you can do to improve Magic Missle, such as Empower, Maximize, Twin Spell, etc. can just as easily be applied to other, more efficient spells. The various Fell effects work well because they apply a stacking effect on each individual missile, rather than just improving the overall damage of the spell.
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    Default Re: Force Missle Mage

    You can do some pretty funny things with force missile mage, twin spell, repeating spell, quicken spell and meta reducers. Of course it still is subject to spell resistance and even though the obvious solutions to it are fixed it is still not the best use of power. Also those spells tend to raise the spell level quickly even with the reducers.

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    Default Re: Force Missle Mage

    You can make a Magic-Missile-centric Mailman, but it's not really doing anything that other spells can't also do (although from a special effects/character coolness perspective, exploding a dude with 30 Magic Missiles from a single casting action is pretty satisfying.) The Fell metamagics take advantage of Magic Missile to apply those effects in ways other direct-damage spells aren't as good at.

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    Default Re: Force Missle Mage

    I houseruled this to full casting for my girlfriend's sorceress. The rest of her spells are all BC, buffs like Haste, and other stuff. She mostly just uses it for finishing off foes who are locked down in BC that are still too risky to approach for our party BSF (who's a Dwarven Duskblade with a glaive). Its not THAT much more powerful than straight sorcerer, which while being rather bland, is still a fully functional T2 work of art.

    Is it bad? Not really. Especially if the DM allows it to be full casting. Is it great? No. Is it Incantatrix? No way. Does everyone want to play an Incantatrix? No.

    Just don't get too much tunnel vision to the point where MM is all you cast and you'll be fine.
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    Default Re: Force Missle Mage

    Bring in Isaac's Missile Storm from NWN; 40d6 force damage no save.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Default Re: Force Missle Mage

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    Bring in Isaac's Missile Storm from NWN; 40d6 force damage no save.
    God that friggin' spell ruined NWN PvP.

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    Default Re: Force Missle Mage

    Quote Originally Posted by A_S View Post
    God that friggin' spell ruined NWN PvP.
    Hey, it's not like NWN/D&D PvP was the soul of fairness and good design without it
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Default Re: Force Missle Mage

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    Hey, it's not like NWN/D&D PvP was the soul of fairness and good design without it
    I was going to come up with some kind of response to this but I think I'll just go with "yes."

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    Default Re: Force Missle Mage

    You could further buff your FMM with some Argent Savant. It's a prc that focuses on force effects, making them deal more damage and provide more AC.
    Not a strong boost for a FMM, but thematic. Should also provide a boost that stacks with Abjurant Champ.

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    Default Re: Force Missle Mage

    Quote Originally Posted by herrhauptmann View Post
    You could further buff your FMM with some Argent Savant. It's a prc that focuses on force effects, making them deal more damage and provide more AC.
    Not a strong boost for a FMM, but thematic. Should also provide a boost that stacks with Abjurant Champ.
    Yeah but doesn't it give up another caster level?
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    Default Re: Force Missle Mage

    Using the Argent Savant and meta magic you can do some halfway decent damage to a single target but that's about it.

    I've played that and it was a hell of a lot of fun, but a lot of that was that fact that he thought that "Force" magic was the only "Real" magic and took every force spell he could. The fact that he was evil might have had something to do with it too. Oddly it was the spell many jaws and not magic missile that that elf is really remembered for though.

    Assassinating someone with a quickened, empowered, maximized, twined magic missile, and an empowered, maximized, twined, repeating magic missile does have its appeal though.

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    Default Re: Force Missle Mage

    Quote Originally Posted by Invader View Post
    Yeah but doesn't it give up another caster level?
    Honestly, I don't remember.
    If it does, it probably also boosts your CL when casting a force spell. Since you seem to want to focus on FMM, it shouldn't be a problem.
    Quote Originally Posted by RolkFlameraven View Post
    I've played that and it was a hell of a lot of fun, but a lot of that was that fact that he thought that "Force" magic was the only "Real" magic and took every force spell he could. The fact that he was evil might have had something to do with it too. Oddly it was the spell many jaws and not magic missile that that elf is really remembered for though.

    Assassinating someone with a quickened, empowered, maximized, twined magic missile, and an empowered, maximized, twined, repeating magic missile does have its appeal though.
    Many jaws? Source?
    No thundering or fell drain? :D
    Streamers isn't a force effect, is it?

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    Default Re: Force Missle Mage

    Argent Savant does lose 1 CL
    Streamers is not a force effect (damage is untyped)
    Manyjaws is in SpC
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Default Re: Force Missle Mage

    Mixing in heighten and, if you can swing PF material, Rime spell could be a useful trick. add some debuff to the fun once you get Energy missile. Similarly, you could potentially mix in born of three thunders. I'm tempted to toss in blistering spell, but i doubt that actually works, seeing as they need to fail a save, which is normally not present. If you add blistering to Bo3T somehow (energy admixture? ALL THE METAMAGIC!) that could be fun.
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    Default Re: Force Missle Mage

    Quote Originally Posted by Invader View Post
    Can you make Force Missile Mage viable without fell drain, fell frighten, and fell weaken. I've seen other builds and advice but almost every one includes the above feats. Can you make magic missile something you actually want to use above really low levels?
    The answer is yes... and no. It's viable in a low-mid op game, but not in a mid-high op game.
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    Default Re: Force Missle Mage

    Knowledge devotion and Lady's Gambit are decent boosts, once your FMM is using Twinned 7-missle spells. It's only +3 damage or so, but when added 14 times it can make a difference.
    This thread has a lot of resources for you
    Last edited by TiaC; 2013-10-01 at 03:57 AM.

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    Default Re: Force Missle Mage

    It almost goes without saying you want some means of casting quickened True Casting (Arcane Spellsurge, Arcane Fusions, actual Quicken...) or Assay SR if you're going to use Magic Missiles as your workhorse.

    You could maybe houserule in it working with Chain Missile from Spell Compendium, which mechanically follows the rules of magic missile right down to being spoofed by Shield. It isn't great, but at least it has twice the base damage at high level and Range:Long going for it (and man you can be a JERK with Range: Long).

    With full casting this PRC becomes a lot better. It also becomes better when you combo it with War Mage from Age of Mortals or Abjurant Champion because both of them require Combat Casting as well. War Mage 5/FMM 5 especially is much more acceptable if only because the War Mage damage amps the Magic Missiles into more acceptable territory.

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    Default Re: Force Missle Mage

    War Mage 5/FMM 5 especially is much more acceptable if only because the War Mage damage amps the Magic Missiles into more acceptable territory.
    The War Mage ability to increase damage (Warmage edge) specifically states that it only applies to one missile for magic missile or similar multi-attack spells. A flat +2 - 3 damage to the entire cast isn't gonna do much for MM.

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    Default Re: Force Missle Mage

    Quote Originally Posted by DeAnno View Post

    With full casting this PRC becomes a lot bettedamage was so becomes better when you combo it with War Mage from Age of Mortals or Abjurant Champion because both of them require Combat Casting as well. War Mage 5/FMM 5 especially is much more acceptable if only because the War Mage damage amps the Magic Missiles into more acceptable territory.
    Why would you ever take 5 levels of warmage? Maybe 1 if warmage edge damage was for every missile but you're taking dead levels basically.
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    Default Re: Force Missle Mage

    It is War Mage from Age of mortals

    ...

    NOT Warmage from Complete Arcane
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    Default Re: Force Missle Mage

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeb View Post
    It is War Mage from Age of mortals

    ...

    NOT Warmage from Complete Arcane
    Isn't that 3rd party though. If we open up that can of worms we can make any class good.
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    Default Re: Force Missle Mage

    Quote Originally Posted by Invader View Post
    Isn't that 3rd party though. If we open up that can of worms we can make any class good.
    Nope, Dragonlance is actually an official WotC product.
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    Default Re: Force Missle Mage

    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92329

    Arcane Sniper, the final PrC in the first post, might be relevant to this conversation.

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    Default Re: Force Missle Mage

    Quote Originally Posted by Jalor View Post
    Nope, Dragonlance is actually an official WotC product.
    Actually, I'm pretty sure only the Dragonlance Campaign Setting book is First Party. The rest of the books have the WotC rights but I vaguely remember them not being actual WotC products.

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    Default Re: Force Missle Mage

    Quote Originally Posted by Hammerpriest View Post
    Actually, I'm pretty sure only the Dragonlance Campaign Setting book is First Party. The rest of the books have the WotC rights but I vaguely remember them not being actual WotC products.
    They are licensed by WotC but created and published by a different publisher.

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    Default Re: Force Missle Mage

    Quote Originally Posted by Fax Celestis View Post
    They are licensed by WotC but created and published by a different publisher.
    No, he's right; the Campaign Setting book was published by WotC, and the others (LotT etc.) were not.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Default Re: Force Missle Mage

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    No, he's right; the Campaign Setting book was published by WotC, and the others (LotT etc.) were not.
    Yes, but they were still licensed by WotC.

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    Default Re: Force Missle Mage

    Be a manifester, cast Energy Missile [sonic] at people? It seems like more or less the same thing.
    Last edited by Slipperychicken; 2013-10-01 at 12:39 PM.

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