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  1. - Top - End - #61
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: The Annotated Order of the Stick - A Companion Guide

    Panel 1, Strip 793


    Elan refers to "Run" and "Endurance" as "both solid choices." These feats are among the most infamous "trap" (completely worthless, but take up a valuable feat slot) feats in D&D 3.5.

  2. - Top - End - #62
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    Default Re: The Annotated Order of the Stick - A Companion Guide

    Sorry for the delay, folks! I was away in Maine for a small vacation! But now I'm back, so let's get cracking!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Miel View Post
    Certainly, the majority of art and spelling errors aren't worth noting. But a few are. I don't think it should be a blanket ban.

    For example, I think it's worth noting that Haley has three arms in panel 1.
    http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0011.html
    I see no reason to annotate any mistakes Rich has made in the comic. I wish to highlight the intended jokes, references and such, not the mistakes. Honestly, to me it seems like doing so would come across as rude. *shrug* As an artist and writer myself, drawing attention to those sorts of things to me seem like bad form, and so - unless it is an incomic joke that references such a mistake - I'll likely not put it in. Hopefully that makes sense?

    Quote Originally Posted by tirsales View Post
    In 365 the clothes of Nale are getting ruffled, eg his shirt no longer sits straight on his pants. Not surI if relevant, but as Art Details are pointed out in other numbers as well...
    I'm going to add it to the existing information I have there, to add a little more to the details of the kiss. Alone I'd say it wouldn't be notable, but alongside other things I think it works to help it. Thanks for the contribution!

    Quote Originally Posted by Onyavar View Post
    Did you already include all the details from other threads yet? There were the really great "things you didn't notice before" threads.
    I've looked through the three incarnations I could find, yes, and got a good number of things from them that are within the lists so far. If you think there's something notable I missed, or a thread that might be of use to help me, send it my way!

    Quote Originally Posted by Onyavar View Post
    Just because it isn't covered - who are the final fantasy characters in Azur City? Strip 380 or something, I guess. Just one thing from the top of my head, I assume every strip has many "hidden" details.
    Indeed, that's a good one...I'll add that to the list of things needing definition. Can you give me a exact page number so I can find it easier, and then I'll add it? Most strips will have a hidden detail of some sort, and I look forward to defining them for the sake of readers who might not get them all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Onyavar View Post
    Like Vaarsuvius only eating vegetarian meals, all the early clues on Malack being a vampire. There might also be spoilered references to the books (but no annotations and interconnections for the book-only strips themselves!!), and also explanations of every single pun, especially the strip titles. You may think that pop culture is understandable to every reader, but it's not for foreigners or people who don't know a certain work.
    V eating pomegranates is something I've got in the Character's area, and I'm working on compiling a list of obvious and explainable clues to Malack's vampirism there too. If you have more to add there, I'd love your contributions! I plan on doing book references, but more importantly, when I purchace the books I'll likely add scetions for those as well, aside from "Snips, Snails..." because it's been labeled as "not in cannon".

    Explanations of all puns will be on a case by case basis. Some are more obvious than others. I know there are puns some not native to english speakers might not get, so I'll probably keep an open mind in doing so. Strip titles I eventually want to work out on every page, and will likely need help to work them all out. Pop culture references not even I always get, which is why I wanted to start this. If it helps people enjoy the comic more, then I'm happy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Onyavar View Post
    If I understand you correctly, that you aim at the above, then your project is very ambitious. It might be very useful for my own pet project on the oots, so keep up your work.
    Ambitious indeed. I hope to have more people on board with this to help me as time progresses, so I'm not doing this all myself, though I certainly don't mind. I just think with regular contributions, this project will go a lot smoother and faster.

    Quote Originally Posted by Muenster Man View Post
    Are Elan's lines at the end of #923 a reference to #693 when he was talking to Roy about dinosaurs? It doesn't quite fit, since he doesn't talk about riding dinos in #693, but I can't think of any other reference he could be making.

    I haven't seen anything about it on the main discussion thread, although I've only read some of it.
    It started off here, but there have been some other references as it goes along. Your reference, while it refers to dinosaurs, doesn't mention riding them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnoman View Post
    Panel 1, Strip 793

    Elan refers to "Run" and "Endurance" as "both solid choices." These feats are among the most infamous "trap" (completely worthless, but take up a valuable feat slot) feats in D&D 3.5.
    You might also want to explain why they are worthless by stating what they do a bit.
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  3. - Top - End - #63
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    Default Re: The Annotated Order of the Stick - A Companion Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by TheWombatOfDoom View Post
    You might also want to explain why they are worthless by stating what they do a bit.
    Fair enough, although I felt that that would go into greater detail than the scope of this thread intended (In other words, I felt that pointing out why it was a joke was more important.


    From the SRD:
    Endurance:
    Spoiler
    Show

    Endurance [General]
    Benefit
    You gain a +4 bonus on the following checks and saves: Swim checks made to resist nonlethal damage, Constitution checks made to continue running, Constitution checks made to avoid nonlethal damage from a forced march, Constitution checks made to hold your breath, Constitution checks made to avoid nonlethal damage from starvation or thirst, Fortitude saves made to avoid nonlethal damage from hot or cold environments, and Fortitude saves made to resist damage from suffocation. Also, you may sleep in light or medium armor without becoming fatigued.

    Normal
    A character without this feat who sleeps in medium or heavier armor is automatically fatigued the next day.

    Special
    A ranger automatically gains Endurance as a bonus feat at 3rd level. He need not select it.


    You spend a feat slot to get a small bonus (easily replicated with a more useful CON-enhancing magic item) to checks that are almost NEVER ROLLED, as low-level spells easily negate all of them on the rare times when they come up.

    Run
    Spoiler
    Show
    Run [General]
    Benefit
    When running, you move five times your normal speed (if wearing medium, light, or no armor and carrying no more than a medium load) or four times your speed (if wearing heavy armor or carrying a heavy load). If you make a jump after a running start (see the Jump skill description), you gain a +4 bonus on your Jump check. While running, you retain your Dexterity bonus to AC.

    Normal
    You move four times your speed while running (if wearing medium, light, or no armor and carrying no more than a medium load) or three times your speed (if wearing heavy armor or carrying a heavy load), and you lose your Dexterity bonus to AC.

    Normally, lightly armored characters can run for 80 feet or 120 feet (depending on race/class combo). This feat allows 100 or 150 feet (in other words an extra 4 or 6 squares in combat). Tactically, this almost never matters, as moving at a run prevents you from doing anything else. Outside of combat, your speed is usually augmented by horses or replaced by magical transportation.

    Note that most characters only have 7 (+1 for humans) non-bonus feats total.
    Last edited by Gnoman; 2013-10-14 at 12:26 PM.

  4. - Top - End - #64
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    Default Re: The Annotated Order of the Stick - A Companion Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnoman View Post
    Fair enough, although I felt that that would go into greater detail than the scope of this thread intended (In other words, I felt that pointing out why it was a joke was more important.


    From the SRD:
    Endurance:


    You spend a feat slot to get a small bonus (easily replicated with a more useful CON-enhancing magic item) to checks that are almost NEVER ROLLED, as low-level spells easily negate all of them on the rare times when they come up.

    Run

    Normally, lightly armored characters can run for 80 feet or 120 feet (depending on race/class combo). This feat allows 100 or 150 feet (in other words an extra 4 or 6 squares in combat). Tactically, this almost never matters, as moving at a run prevents you from doing anything else. Outside of combat, your speed is usually augmented by horses or replaced by magical transportation.

    Note that most characters only have 7 (+1 for humans) non-bonus feats total.
    Good point. I'll try and make some middle ground between the two.
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  5. - Top - End - #65
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    Default Re: The Annotated Order of the Stick - A Companion Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by TheWombatOfDoom View Post
    I've looked through the three incarnations I could find, yes, and got a good number of things from them that are within the lists so far. If you think there's something notable I missed, or a thread that might be of use to help me, send it my way!
    Jokes I Didn't get I and II. Everything there is something that somebody didn't get, and deserves a note.

    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32128

    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87659
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  6. - Top - End - #66
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    Default Re: The Annotated Order of the Stick - A Companion Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Miel View Post
    Jokes I Didn't get I and II. Everything there is something that somebody didn't get, and deserves a note.

    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32128

    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87659
    I've heard these threads mentioned, but I hadn't had much success in locating them! This will be a big help, thank you!
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  7. - Top - End - #67
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    Default Re: The Annotated Order of the Stick - A Companion Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by TheWombatOfDoom View Post
    Indeed, that's a good one...I'll add that to the list of things needing definition. Can you give me a exact page number so I can find it easier, and then I'll add it? Most strips will have a hidden detail of some sort, and I look forward to defining them for the sake of readers who might not get them all.
    Strip in question is 388 - but I I have no clue who they represent (maybe there is something in the discussion thread?), only that is clearly referencing Final Fantasy (most obvious reference should be the Fenix Down)

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  8. - Top - End - #68
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    Default Re: The Annotated Order of the Stick - A Companion Guide

    The Final Fantasy characters referenced are from Final Fantasy VI (originally FF III in the U.S. on the Super Nintendo), and more information can be found here:

    http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/L..._VI_Characters

    Elan and Thog take the place of Locke and Mog, respectively. Setzer was the airship captain, and can be seen at the far left of the gangplank in panel 4 of page 2, followed left to right, by Cyan, Celes, Terra, Relm, and Strago. The guy with the drill in the next couple of panels is Edgar.

  9. - Top - End - #69
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    Default Re: The Annotated Order of the Stick - A Companion Guide

    Question: in 194, who is Kyle?


    Comment: In 198, they mention "that took weeks" and "it would have been quicker if somebody hadn't sprained their wrist".

    This is, in fact, a statement pointing out that this particular comic took weeks to draw because Rich broke sprained his wrist.
    Last edited by littlebum2002; 2013-10-15 at 12:48 PM.
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  10. - Top - End - #70
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    Default Re: The Annotated Order of the Stick - A Companion Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by littlebum2002 View Post
    Question: in 194, who is Kyle?
    A Green Lantern- it's a reference to him having not been very popular with the fans, but this dislike not exactly being deserved.
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    Default Re: The Annotated Order of the Stick - A Companion Guide

    Also, the speech "In Brightest Day" etc is the oath of the Green Lantermn corps, which they recite while recharging their power rings.
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    Quote Originally Posted by littlebum2002 View Post
    This is, in fact, a statement pointing out that this particular comic took weeks to draw because Rich broke his wrist.
    I did not know that. Guy really has bad luck with his hand, huh?

    Broke or sprained?
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  13. - Top - End - #73
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    Default Re: The Annotated Order of the Stick - A Companion Guide

    Ah, yes, sprained, sorry.

    Anyway, I wasn't around at the time, so I don't know all the details, although I am sure they can be found by searching through the forum archives. He does mention the sprained wrist in the "guest comics" section, though.
    Last edited by littlebum2002; 2013-10-15 at 12:55 PM.
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  15. - Top - End - #75
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    Default Re: The Annotated Order of the Stick - A Companion Guide

    Really cool detail I noticed today whilst rereading some comics - Malack spitting blood at Tarquin, panel 7.
    Why I love V...

    Now, if you don't mind, I am somewhat preoccupied telling the laws of physics to shut up and sit down.

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    Default Re: The Annotated Order of the Stick - A Companion Guide

    I found the comment Rich made about the acid-breathing shark here
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    Default Re: The Annotated Order of the Stick - A Companion Guide

    Thank you for all the contributions so far!

    A thought I had today - perhaps we should handle chunks at a time. People can still submit suggestions for whatever comic update they'd like, or fixing particular mistakes I've made...

    ...but over all, we'll focus on a group of updates at a time, starting with the first 100. I figure there's a lot that might be missed without just going page by page and seeing what might need addressing.

    So, I'll start -

    Things that need Explaining

    Update 1 - 3.5 update needs explaining - Dwarves get more stable, Bards get chainshirt proficiency and more skill points per level, not sure about the terminology for Belkar's daggers getting smaller.

    Update 2 - Elan singing about his new skill points.

    Update 3 - Spot check, Alertness, and Listen Check need to be explained.

    Update 4 - Inspiring Competance and Sense motive needs to be explained.
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  18. - Top - End - #78
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    Default Re: The Annotated Order of the Stick - A Companion Guide

    In 3.0, Small characters could use Medium weapons. They would just use them differently (it would be treated as a weapon one size larger). So Belkar was wielding Medium daggers, but they were treated as a Small Shortsword. When they updated to 3.5, his Medium daggers became Small daggers, which are smaller and weaker.
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    Default Re: The Annotated Order of the Stick - A Companion Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by TheWombatOfDoom View Post
    Things that need Explaining

    Update 3 - Spot check, Alertness, and Listen Check need to be explained.
    Not sure if this is how this works but:

    Here, Belkar notes he failed a spot check, which is a dice roll in D&D 3.5 that determines whether or not a character sees something. It is one of the more common rolls players (or their DMs) make during a gaming session, and often if a player rolls (or hears rolled) dice when entering a room or traveling, but nothing happens after the roll, there is a sense that you "missed" something, even though the character should not realize a check was failed.

    Alertness is a feat that provides bonuses to listen and spot checks. In 3.5, so long as your familiar was within reach, you gained the benefits of this feat. although meant to be magical assistants/companions for wizards, players would often forget they were around, and so they would "pop up" whenever their abilities were needed, thus giving players a reason to describe their location/activity.

    A listen check is identical to a spot check, except that it represents the ability to notice a sound, rather than to see something. It creates the same "dice rolled, but no new information" issue that spot checks create. As noted above, alertness provides a bonus to listen
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poppatomus View Post
    Not sure if this is how this works but:

    Here, Belkar notes he failed a spot check, which is a dice roll in D&D 3.5 that determines whether or not a character sees something. It is one of the more common rolls players (or their DMs) make during a gaming session, and often if a player rolls (or hears rolled) dice when entering a room or traveling, but nothing happens after the roll, there is a sense that you "missed" something, even though the character should not realize a check was failed.

    Alertness is a feat that provides bonuses to listen and spot checks. In 3.5, so long as your familiar was within reach, you gained the benefits of this feat. although meant to be magical assistants/companions for wizards, players would often forget they were around, and so they would "pop up" whenever their abilities were needed, thus giving players a reason to describe their location/activity.

    A listen check is identical to a spot check, except that it represents the ability to notice a sound, rather than to see something. It creates the same "dice rolled, but no new information" issue that spot checks create. As noted above, alertness provides a bonus to listen
    I can confirm based personal experience that players of Wizard or Sorcerer PCs in 3.X would take a familiar for a minor mechanical benefit (a bonus to a skill, extra hit points, a bonus to a saving throw), and then never mention it again. (I know that my Sorcerer was just as guilty... until my Viper familiar saved my party from a TPK when all of us were paralyzed by a Kopru. I remembered the Viper just in time to argue that it deserved a saving throw as well, which it made. And it kept making saves against the Kopru's attack and it crit on it's bite attack, killing the Kopru with it's poisonous bite. For those unfamiliar with the Kopru, they resemble tiny crustaceans with psychic attacks.)

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    Default Re: The Annotated Order of the Stick - A Companion Guide

    Your note for update 485 is slightly incomplete. Eugene is making a Dragonball Z reference.

    Goku, the main character, is killed protecting the Earth from the first wave of a three-man invasion. While he is dead, he trains with King Kai, a martial arts master, to become stronger while his friends gather the seven Dragonballs in order to wish him back to life to help fight off the other two members coming to finish the job.
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    Default Re: The Annotated Order of the Stick - A Companion Guide

    No Cure for the Paladin Blues - I'm assuming it's a reference to the song "(No Cure for the) Summertime Blues", originally by Eddie Cochran, but also covered by The Who and a heck of a lot of other people besides.

    The Update 575 about Giro. It's an anagram of Igor, not an acronym (if it were an acronym, it would be something like "Grubwiggler's Igor Random Operative" )

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    Default Re: The Annotated Order of the Stick - A Companion Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by TheWombatOfDoom View Post
    Thank you for all the contributions so far!

    A thought I had today - perhaps we should handle chunks at a time. People can still submit suggestions for whatever comic update they'd like, or fixing particular mistakes I've made...

    ...but over all, we'll focus on a group of updates at a time, starting with the first 100. I figure there's a lot that might be missed without just going page by page and seeing what might need addressing.

    So, I'll start -

    Things that need Explaining

    Update 1 - 3.5 update needs explaining - Dwarves get more stable, Bards get chainshirt proficiency and more skill points per level, not sure about the terminology for Belkar's daggers getting smaller.

    Update 2 - Elan singing about his new skill points.

    Update 3 - Spot check, Alertness, and Listen Check need to be explained.

    Update 4 - Inspiring Competance and Sense motive needs to be explained.
    Sense Motive is a Wisdom-related skill check usually made in response to a Handle Animal, Diplomacy, or Bluff check. The check is rolled in opposition to one of those three. It is in practice, a roll to see through being manipulated by the other roller. A successful check means that the individual rolling Sense Motive saw through the manipulation, or was not swayed (depending on how much the roll was beaten by.)

    Elan is singing about his new skill points is a mechanical thing. Between 3.0 and 3.5, Bards went from 4 + INT Mod skill points per level to 6 + INT mod skill points per level. Elan is assumed to be Level 9 at the time, meaning he got 18 Skill Points (and a chain shirt) from the transition. (Considering how he could have 12 Ranks max in any one skill, this is enough to master a whole new skill, and get decent profiency in a whole new one.)
    Last edited by Ghost Nappa; 2013-10-19 at 09:12 AM.

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    Default Re: The Annotated Order of the Stick - A Companion Guide

    Buggy Lou, encountered in #685, had earlier been referenced by Belkar in #171. I don't know if that is interesting enough to warrant a mention.

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    Default Re: The Annotated Order of the Stick - A Companion Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by Bedinsis View Post
    Buggy Lou, encountered in #685, had earlier been referenced by Belkar in #171. I don't know if that is interesting enough to warrant a mention.
    While he references a guy who knows a guy, I've never found that to be conclusive enough... I know it seems obvious, but couldn't he know several people like Buggy Lou?
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  26. - Top - End - #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWombatOfDoom View Post
    While he references a guy who knows a guy, I've never found that to be conclusive enough... I know it seems obvious, but couldn't he know several people like Buggy Lou?
    It's possible. But I think that the fact that Buggy refers to Belkar as a friend of a friend, a description that Belkar also gave the slaver(who might or might not have been Buggy) is a rather good indicator. I dunno.

  27. - Top - End - #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by littlebum2002 View Post
    In 3.0, Small characters could use Medium weapons. They would just use them differently (it would be treated as a weapon one size larger). So Belkar was wielding Medium daggers, but they were treated as a Small Shortsword. When they updated to 3.5, his Medium daggers became Small daggers, which are smaller and weaker.
    Added parts of this to the OP, thank you!

    Quote Originally Posted by Poppatomus View Post
    Not sure if this is how this works but:

    Here, Belkar notes he failed a spot check, which is a dice roll in D&D 3.5 that determines whether or not a character sees something. It is one of the more common rolls players (or their DMs) make during a gaming session, and often if a player rolls (or hears rolled) dice when entering a room or traveling, but nothing happens after the roll, there is a sense that you "missed" something, even though the character should not realize a check was failed.

    Alertness is a feat that provides bonuses to listen and spot checks. In 3.5, so long as your familiar was within reach, you gained the benefits of this feat. although meant to be magical assistants/companions for wizards, players would often forget they were around, and so they would "pop up" whenever their abilities were needed, thus giving players a reason to describe their location/activity.

    A listen check is identical to a spot check, except that it represents the ability to notice a sound, rather than to see something. It creates the same "dice rolled, but no new information" issue that spot checks create. As noted above, alertness provides a bonus to listen
    I cut it down some, to attempt to make it shorter and not bunchy. How does it look? Too cluttered?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir_Leorik View Post
    I can confirm based personal experience that players of Wizard or Sorcerer PCs in 3.X would take a familiar for a minor mechanical benefit (a bonus to a skill, extra hit points, a bonus to a saving throw), and then never mention it again. (I know that my Sorcerer was just as guilty... until my Viper familiar saved my party from a TPK when all of us were paralyzed by a Kopru. I remembered the Viper just in time to argue that it deserved a saving throw as well, which it made. And it kept making saves against the Kopru's attack and it crit on it's bite attack, killing the Kopru with it's poisonous bite. For those unfamiliar with the Kopru, they resemble tiny crustaceans with psychic attacks.)
    Haha, I generally run the rule that if you don't remember your familiar, it stays at the place you last remembered it, or in the vicinity. So when the group teleported miles and miles away, there was no chance of having it on hand. There ended up being a side quest to rescue the familiar, that someone had captured.

    Quote Originally Posted by illyahr View Post
    Your note for update 485 is slightly incomplete. Eugene is making a Dragonball Z reference.

    Goku, the main character, is killed protecting the Earth from the first wave of a three-man invasion. While he is dead, he trains with King Kai, a martial arts master, to become stronger while his friends gather the seven Dragonballs in order to wish him back to life to help fight off the other two members coming to finish the job.
    Fixed that. The update was written before I had a form going for these. I've changed it to match and echo your contribution.

    Quote Originally Posted by Storm_Of_Snow View Post
    No Cure for the Paladin Blues - I'm assuming it's a reference to the song "(No Cure for the) Summertime Blues", originally by Eddie Cochran, but also covered by The Who and a heck of a lot of other people besides.

    The Update 575 about Giro. It's an anagram of Igor, not an acronym (if it were an acronym, it would be something like "Grubwiggler's Igor Random Operative" )
    Added in the No Cure reference, and also fixed the wording for Igor, and added some information.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost Nappa View Post
    Sense Motive is a Wisdom-related skill check usually made in response to a Handle Animal, Diplomacy, or Bluff check. The check is rolled in opposition to one of those three. It is in practice, a roll to see through being manipulated by the other roller. A successful check means that the individual rolling Sense Motive saw through the manipulation, or was not swayed (depending on how much the roll was beaten by.)

    Elan is singing about his new skill points is a mechanical thing. Between 3.0 and 3.5, Bards went from 4 + INT Mod skill points per level to 6 + INT mod skill points per level. Elan is assumed to be Level 9 at the time, meaning he got 18 Skill Points (and a chain shirt) from the transition. (Considering how he could have 12 Ranks max in any one skill, this is enough to master a whole new skill, and get decent profiency in a whole new one.)
    I'll be adding some of these details once I get a wording on "Inspire Competance", but thank you for the submissions thus far. Used some of your explanation on Elan's singing.
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  28. - Top - End - #88
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    Couple of missed things.

    In 514, the box Haley is in reads "Imported from Greysky CIty." This is quite accurate, as that's where Haley is from.


    In 515, Panel 1, Belkar is lamenting that he can't make the pineapples he is throwing "somehow explode." "Pineapple" is a common slang term for certain types of hand grenades due to a cross-hatched pattern etched on them for easier throwing.

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    I thought the cross-hatch pattern was to make the case break apart into shrapnel.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Miel View Post
    I thought the cross-hatch pattern was to make the case break apart into shrapnel.
    This. The cross-hatch pattern makes the grenade shell break apart along designated lines for an even shrapnel spread. Otherwise, you might end up with a large chunk flying in one direction with small shards flying in the opposite direction.

    Modern grenades do this too, the cross-hatching is just on the inside so it isn't visible.
    Last edited by illyahr; 2013-10-22 at 08:52 PM.
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