Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica

[AuraTwilight]

Updated with everyone's suggestions. I went with the two Sorcerer schools idea.

[Debihuman]

Sorry I didn't get back to you on the sorcerer idea. Sounds like it should be fine. It's good that you have a playtest group too as that's the best way to test out new ideas. Good luck and let us know how it goes.

Debby

[Zweisteine]

I am familiar with Madoka Magica, though I think I missed a bit in the middle of the series. I'm not quite sure what I was thinking when I wrote thy "soul healing" bit.

EDIT: from a Madoka wiki (trustworthy; no clue):

They are also capable of harnessing the regenerative power to heal problems like nearsightedness. According to Kyubey, it is possible to keep fighting even with every drop of blood in their body drained by healing it with magic

That's kind of like eerily similar to what restoration does.


I think there should also be a way to remove despair points. Not easy, and not something a character can do to themself, but it should be doable. Perhaps if long enough goes without gainin a point or having to make a save against gaining one, though I don't remember The specifics of the original transformation mechanic, so that might not make sense.


EDIT:
You should specify that they cannot learn limited wish, either, though I suppose it doesn't come close to wish in terms of actual power...

And you could open up all 0-level spells to be learned from, as long as there's a limit on how many you can know. They aren't game-breakingly powerful, with one exception. You should not allow infinite casting of Cure Minor Wounds.

[Sith_Happens]

I think there should also be a way to remove despair points. Not easy, and not something a character can do to themself, but it should be doable. Perhaps if long enough goes without gainin a point or having to make a save against gaining one, though I don't remember The specifics of the original transformation mechanic, so that might not make sense.

Check the Grief Seed ability on Akubas again. That's how you get rid of Despair.

[Zweisteine]

Check the Grief Seed ability on Akubas again. That's how you get rid of Despair.

Ah, missed that.


The one thing that will always bother me about this class: It can't effectively model the characters from the series.

Take Homura, for example: What she has is basically free timestops (limited by the sand in her shield) and a shield of holding, and Weapon Proficiency: firearms/explosives. She'd basically have a spell list consisting of Hidden Chest (maybe; it's like a bag of holding, kind of), Time Stop (variant that lets her cast evocations that drop into normal time when cast), and a bunch of evocations. But I suppose this is one of the limitations of the system we're working in. Ah well...

[Sith_Happens]

I think "The Akuba makes all Wisdom-based checks using Charisma" might satisfy both of these points?

I meant "Act normally" as in not be affected by this rule:

Wisdom 0 means that the character is withdrawn into a deep sleep filled with nightmares, helpless.

As-is, an Akuba cannot act.

As for the other critiques/suggestions I mentioned earlier:

• Needs a "Starting Age" entry. I recommend "As Rogue, but use two-thirds the normal adulthood age specified by the appropriate table." You also don't have any requirement that the character be female and/or Humanoid, which may or may not be intentional.
• The way things are formatted currently, a new Mahou Kodomo gets two Wishes, one from the Contract special attack and one from the Wish class feature. I'd suggest cutting the Wish feature and folding its text into the Contract attack. So you'd end up with something like (obviously feel free to rip off my exact text):

Contract (Sp): As a full-round action, an Incubator can form a contract with a willing, conscious creature of Intelligence 3 or greater that can feel emotions and is within the Random Starting Age range of the Mahou Kodomo class. This grants the effects of a Wish spell to the target, except that producing "greater effects" is just as safe and reliable as producing one of the listed effects. However, due to its potential to have dramatic effects on the campaign, the Wish must be approved in advance by the DM.

As "payment" for the Wish, the target immediately gains the 1st level of the Mahou Kodomo class, increasing in experience to the amount required to gain the level. At the DM's option, the target may instead become a gestalt character of her current effective character level, with Mahou Kodomo as her second class.

Incubators deliberately seek out creatures in the thrust of powerful emotion to make contracts with; Wishes made out of rationality rather than passion or emotional desperation produce less energy for the Incubators to use.

Caster level 30th.

• On similar note, instead of having the Incubator class feature, I'd add a "Special" section after either Alignment or Hit Die:

Special: Only creatures that have been affected by an Incubator's Contract special attack may take levels of Mahou Kodomo.

• The default assumption is that characters know everything about their own class features and other abilities, which is problematic with respect to the Soul Gem feature. You'll need to set specific Knowledge DCs; DC 20 Knowledge(Arcana) or Bardic Knowledge to know that the Soul Gem contains the Mahou Kodomo's soul (and the consequences thereof) and DC 30 to know how Despair Points are gained and what happens when you have ten of them sounds about right. Also specify that the Mahou Kodomo is never aware of having rolled a save against despair, even on a success.
• Mention in the Soul Gem feature description that using Grief Seeds or Grief Cubes (whichever exist in the campaign) removes Despair Points. Probably with a note to the effect of "The DM may designate additional ways of removing Despair Points as appropriate to the campaign" (so that a DM who doesn't want to make their campaign revolve to some extent around deliberate Akuba/Wraith-hunting doesn't feel pressured to do so anyways).
• "Domains" doesn't need to be a separate class feature, just make it part of the "Spells" description like with Clerics.
• For the Incubator's Imperceptible special quality, add that Incubators make no sound, that the decision to make a specific creature unaffected by the quality applies to all Incubators, and that the decision cannot be revoked.

I think that's it for now.

[AuraTwilight]

That's kind of like eerily similar to what restoration does.

They have the Cleric's spell-list, so they already had Restoration since the class's inception. :)

You should specify that they cannot learn limited wish, either, though I suppose it doesn't come close to wish in terms of actual power...

And you could open up all 0-level spells to be learned from, as long as there's a limit on how many you can know. They aren't game-breakingly powerful, with one exception. You should not allow infinite casting of Cure Minor Wounds.

I'm actually fine with infinite casting of Cure Minor Wounds; atleast in my games since I don't allow players the luxury of abusing it in play. I suppose it is a potential problem though. How is it handled in Pathfinder? Or is it just accepted as one of that game's major balance screw-ups?

I'm fine with them getting Limited Wish. I just don't want them to have both Wish AND Miracle, because it's silly and redundant.

The one thing that will always bother me about this class: It can't effectively model the characters from the series.

Take Homura, for example: What she has is basically free timestops (limited by the sand in her shield) and a shield of holding, and Weapon Proficiency: firearms/explosives. She'd basically have a spell list consisting of Hidden Chest (maybe; it's like a bag of holding, kind of), Time Stop (variant that lets her cast evocations that drop into normal time when cast), and a bunch of evocations. But I suppose this is one of the limitations of the system we're working in. Ah well...

In fairness, Homura's magical level is rated in official documents as a 7+ out of a possible 5. So basically she's a Plot Powered DMPC of +2 Supreme Bollocks.

That being said, what you described is a feature of the Wish, specifically. And the Wishes made at the inception of this class are explicitly more powerful than the standard Wish-writeup, in a vague way up to DM-Player discussion.

As-is, an Akuba cannot act.

As for the other critiques/suggestions I mentioned earlier:

Needs a "Starting Age" entry. I recommend "As Rogue, but use two-thirds the normal adulthood age specified by the appropriate table." You also don't have any requirement that the character be female and/or Humanoid, which may or may not be intentional.
The way things are formatted currently, a new Mahou Kodomo gets two Wishes, one from the Contract special attack and one from the Wish class feature. I'd suggest cutting the Wish feature and folding its text into the Contract attack. So you'd end up with something like (obviously feel free to rip off my exact text):

I believe I made a specific clause that the Akuba's nature overrides the thing about Wisdom 0 ("So that they may continue to function"). I originally had it as a nonability, but I got stink for that too.

The rest of what you said is good though.

The default assumption is that characters know everything about their own class features and other abilities, which is problematic with respect to the Soul Gem feature. You'll need to set specific Knowledge DCs; DC 20 Knowledge(Arcana) or Bardic Knowledge to know that the Soul Gem contains the Mahou Kodomo's soul (and the consequences thereof) and DC 30 to know how Despair Points are gained and what happens when you have ten of them sounds about right. Also specify that the Mahou Kodomo is never aware of having rolled a save against despair, even on a success.

Eh, the last bit I'm not sure I'm cool with; Puella Magi always seemed to be aware of their growing Grief. Especially since you can just look at the damn thing and see this screwy black cloud of Bad News.

For the Incubator's Imperceptible special quality, add that Incubators make no sound, that the decision to make a specific creature unaffected by the quality applies to all Incubators, and that the decision cannot be revoked.

Good thinking.

[Sith_Happens]

Eh, the last bit I'm not sure I'm cool with; Puella Magi always seemed to be aware of their growing Grief. Especially since you can just look at the damn thing and see this screwy black cloud of Bad News.

They can still look at their gem and know they've gotten more points, they just don't know exactly how they got the points.

...Actually, the feature right now doesn't say anything about a visual indicator of your Despair score. Need to add that.

Also, having the Invisibility from Imperceptible be a Phantasm is kind of dysfunctional, since Phantasms are specifically "only in your head" and Invisibility is a global effect.

[AuraTwilight]

You also don't have any requirement that the character be female and/or Humanoid, which may or may not be intentional.

Forgot to address this. No, it's totally intentional. In the Incubator's Contract ability I think I wrote out that it can contract with any sentient being with emotions.

While this does model a Magical Girl archetype, I don't want to restrict gender or race because the Incubators are canonically contracting non-humanoids and targeting only females makes no sense.

EDIT: Updated all three posts.

[Zweisteine]

Idea: Hide the Akuba in a spoiler marked "if you plan on using this class, tell yuit DM to read this, but do not read it youself." You could do the same for despair points, though perhaps just hse the section that says you become an Akuba. Maybe also add some lesser penalties for varying levels of despair to make it seem less suspicious.

Of course, everyone will read it anyway, or won't be using the class. Actually, the people who will use this will already know, so the point is rendered rather moot.


And why not just have the Akuba have no wisdom score (i.e. Wisdom -- instead of Wisdom 0). That makes it easier to deal with rules-wise. Also, make sure they add charisma to will saves (unless they aren't suppose to, I guess).

Actually, the Akuba could be an undead. Give it turn resustance and the other undead qualities, and it doesn't actually seem like bad idea; after all, Akuba are basically corrupted spirits...

And I believe you have to specify a type of magic aura for the Akuba to radiate...

[AuraTwilight]

And why not just have the Akuba have no wisdom score (i.e. Wisdom -- instead of Wisdom 0). That makes it easier to deal with rules-wise. Also, make sure they add charisma to will saves (unless they aren't suppose to, I guess).

That was my original idea. People disagreed.

CHA is already applied to everything WIS would apply.

Actually, the Akuba could be an undead. Give it turn resustance and the other undead qualities, and it doesn't actually seem like bad idea; after all, Akuba are basically corrupted spirits...

Nah. I'm already nixxing an ability, I'd rather not nix two. Plus, Outsider makes more sense, considering they're inherently extraplanar beings with their Labyrinths.

And I believe you have to specify a type of magic aura for the Akuba to radiate...

"As if they were a magic item."

[Zweisteine]

Magic item auras radiate a specific school of magic.
Perhaps Akubas should radiate Necromancy? Or maybe necromancy and transmutation (because they are a transformed Mahou Kodomo)? (or, with a small stretch, enchantment, or even abjuration?)

[AuraTwilight]

Magic item auras radiate a specific school of magic.
Perhaps Akubas should radiate Necromancy? Or maybe necromancy and transmutation (because they are a transformed Mahou Kodomo)? (or, with a small stretch, enchantment, or even abjuration?)

Or just "Despair/Evil"?

It's not like the finer details can't change from individual Akuba to the next. I don't see the need to define things to such granularity.

[Sith_Happens]

Magic item auras radiate a specific school of magic.
Perhaps Akubas should radiate Necromancy? Or maybe necromancy and transmutation (because they are a transformed Mahou Kodomo)? (or, with a small stretch, enchantment, or even abjuration?)

Or just "Despair/Evil"?

It's not like the finer details can't change from individual Akuba to the next. I don't see the need to define things to such granularity.

Just change Detect Despair from referencing Detect Magic to referencing Detect Evil. Like this:

Detect Despair (Su): This ability, usable at-will, functions as the Detect Evil spell, except that it only detects Akuba and can cross planar boundaries.

Also, the more I think about it, the more I think that Mahou Kodomo should have good Will saves. I know that probably sounds counterintuitive, so bear with me:

• It will actually give them a chance of keeping up on their Soul Gem maintenance... at least until high levels when the DC scaling starts to screw them over just as they're getting complacent.
• Witches/Akuba have "cosmic horror" written all over them, which means you need a chock-ton of willpower if you're hoping to make a career of fighting them (and you are supposed to be able to fight them effectively; after all, you can't become one if you're killed by one first).

[AuraTwilight]

Also, the more I think about it, the more I think that Mahou Kodomo should have good Will saves.

Absolutely not. I've playtested it both ways; low Will saves worked way better for everyone involved and my group was unanimous on it.

You could always gestalt with a class with a good will save, if you disagree; they class is inherently meant for being gestalted.

Witches/Akuba have "cosmic horror" written all over them, which means you need a chock-ton of willpower if you're hoping to make a career of fighting them (and you are supposed to be able to fight them effectively; after all, you can't become one if you're killed by one first).

Akuba haven't really been given any special qualities that require making a lot of Will-saves like imply. You don't roll for SAN or anything. :P

[Zweisteine]

Maybe they should get the moderate will save progression (1+(5/12)*level). It goes from +1 to +9, putting it directly between the standard progressions.


Also, though I don't know these variants well, there should probably be sanity and taint rules for this class (i.e. if sanity/taint reaches a certain point, become an Akuba).
Actually, the Taint rules should probably completely replace the despair points when in use. Mahou Kodomo might have special conditions that also get them taint, but it shouldn't be used alongside despair. The two mechanics are too similar in flavor to be used together.

(That could be as easy as a section saying "Mahou Kodomo in Taint campaigns: if using the taint variant from [book it's from], you may wish to eliminate despair. If you do, the Mahou Kodomo risks gaining taint when any event that would normally risk gaining despair occurs." (but worded better).)

[AuraTwilight]

Maybe they should get the moderate will save progression (1+(5/12)*level). It goes from +1 to +9, putting it directly between the standard progressions.

I'd really rather not.

Also, though I don't know these variants well, there should probably be sanity and taint rules for this class (i.e. if sanity/taint reaches a certain point, become an Akuba).

My only problem is that Sanity/Taint wouldn't be exclusive to the Mahou Kodomo in the way Despair Points are, and only Sanity would meaningfully apply to the themes of the class to begin with.

Even then, Mahou Kodomo don't grow 'insane' so much as depressed, hopeless, and self-destructive. These variant rules would just feel tacked on for the sake of it, to me.

Actually, the Taint rules should probably completely replace the despair points when in use. Mahou Kodomo might have special conditions that also get them taint, but it shouldn't be used alongside despair. The two mechanics are too similar in flavor to be used together.

By all means, a GM is free to do so. I don't use Taint rules though for a number of reasons, so I won't be spending time putting energy into it.

[Sith_Happens]

Absolutely not. I've playtested it both ways; low Will saves worked way better for everyone involved and my group was unanimous on it.

Okay, if you've actually been testing this a bunch already then I'll obviously defer to that. The main factor determining how long a MK character lasts is pretty obviously how often they have the chance at getting grief seeds, anyways.

[AuraTwilight]

Indeed. Additionally, I just felt that in-universe, the class giving any sort of Will Save boost wouldn't mesh with the Incubator's objectives.

But to elaborate, a character with a high will save with this class basically went from levels 1 to 13 without getting a single Despair Point, and basically "Won Mahou Kodomo", to quote them. No, a low will-save is pretty necessary.

[Zweisteine]

That makes sense.

So it looks like there's not much left...

I propose statting up all of the characters from the series (or rather statting them up using D&D rules to represent how they might be in D&D, like giving Homura evocations instead of stolen explosives).

I call Homura!

[AuraTwilight]

You're quite welcome to go ahead and do so! I was kind of thinking of seeing how

Spoiler

Show

Devil Homura

would look, again using Dicefreaks rules.

[Sith_Happens]

As for Wraiths, the only information provided about them is that they're created by negative emotions, attack people, and look like big pixelated ghost things. So you have a lot of space to make them whatever you want them to be. Personally, since the point of writing them up is to fit them into a wider D&D setting, I'd take inspiration from the various incorporeal undead (such as Allips) and other existing monsters with a similar shtick.

Of course, there will also need to be versions of them for different CRs. From their brief appearance they seem much more homogenous than Witches, so a simple HD-advancement scheme a-la Elementals (with a few variable abilities and other options for DMs to mix things up so fighting them doesn't get stale) might be best.

[AuraTwilight]

Yea, I basically just decided Wraiths would be replaced with any D&D creature that has an Evil subtype, because Wraiths are undefined, homogenous, have basically all of no screentime, and are pretty boring.

[Sith_Happens]

Yea, I basically just decided Wraiths would be replaced with any D&D creature that has an Evil subtype, because Wraiths are undefined, homogenous, have basically all of no screentime, and are pretty boring.

They should still be their own unique thing. Maybe go with a template again? Inherited, can be applied to any Undead or any creature with the Evil subtype, makes it look a little more "unreal," changes type and subtype to Outsider (Evil), confers Invisible to Normals, Despair Aura, and Grief Cube dropping, removes Create Spawn, CON becomes 10 if the base creature was Undead, leaves all other game statistics the same. Done.

[AuraTwilight]

They should still be their own unique thing. Maybe go with a template again? Inherited, can be applied to any Undead or any creature with the Evil subtype, makes it look a little more "unreal," changes type and subtype to Outsider (Evil), confers Invisible to Normals, Despair Aura, and Grief Cube dropping, removes Create Spawn, CON becomes 10 if the base creature was Undead, leaves all other game statistics the same. Done.

If you really want, I guess. But it seems like you already wrote it right there. :P

[AuraTwilight]

I've been playtesting this more, and it works fine, but I'm still nagged by something.

I don't know, would this work better as a template that gives casting (as described) as a Mahou Kodomo as your level, along with all the other caveats? I feel like that'd be a clunky template, even ignoring how much LA that would deserve, right?

What does the Playground think?

[AuraTwilight]

HERALD OF MADOKA

“What in the world are you girls?”
“We're the ones who once held hope, and in time scattered curses!”
“And now, guided by the Cycles, we exist outside of this world's karma.”
“Are you also part of the Law of Cycles?”
“Well, we're kind of like secretaries.”

Due to the Law of Cycles, when a Mahou Kodomo falls into the depths of despair, they find Salvation. They vanish from this world in body and spirit, leaving not a trace behind, and become one with the Law of Cycles.

The Heralds of Madoka are essentially the goddess's Petitioners in every sense, immediately becoming a part of her divine essence but retaining their personal individuality. She is even capable of cutting them out of the Law of Cycles and exist independently, as rare as it is for her to do so. They are given the following template.

Creating a Herald of Madoka

“Herald of Madoka” is an acquired template that can be applied to any Mahou Kodomo.

Size and Type: The Herald's type becomes Outsider, with the Lawful and Good subtypes. Do not change Base Attack Bonus, base saves, or skill points. Size remains unchanged.

Hit Dice: All Racial Hit Dice and Class Levels are exchanged for levels in Mahou Kodomo. If gestalted, the other sides of the gestalt are lost. A Herald always has maximum hitpoints.

Speed: All movements of a Mahou Kodomo's are doubled in base speed. If they have a flying speed, their maneuverability increases by one category.

Special Attacks:

Familiar Smile (Su): Although they were not born, the Akuba were absorbed into the Law of Cycles along with their former selves, awakened from the dream of despair and karma and given the freedom of Salvation. As a standard action, a Herald of Madoka is capable of summoning her Akuba counterpart, save the following changes: They retain the same mental ability scores as the Herald, and share their hit points, forming a single unit as if a pair of Dvati. They still act on their individual initiatives, but they share their pool of spells, and both count as “You” for the sake of personal spells.
The Akuba does not have individual Mahou Kodomo levels, an aura of despair, a Labyrinth, a Grief Seed, the Unstable quality, or the Cursed Kiss ability.

The Herald can also summon their Akuba's Tsukaima equal to their Charisma score. These Tsukaima receive many of the same changes as the Akuba, save for remaining distinct entities for HP and spells. They can still receive Personal spells from their master, and they have their own mental ability scores as before, but they have a Wisdom of 10 instead of 0. The Akuba and Tsukaima otherwise gain all the benefits of the Herald template.

If an Akuba is destroyed, it cannot be summoned again for 24 hours, though Tsukaima can be replaced after an hour, so long as the Herald doesn't have a maximum of Tsukaima conjured already. Despite the terminology, the Tsukaima and Akuba cannot be banished like a summoned creature. The Tsukaima and Akuba also cannot advance (just like their Mistress).

At the Herald's option, they can choose the ability to Shapechange into their Akuba, as the spell. In this case, the Herald retains the ability to use the supernatural abilities of both their forms in either of them. This choice is made at the time this template is applied, and cannot be changed.

Special Qualities:

Eternal Feminine: So long as they have this template, a Herald is considered to have Divine Rank 0 for all intents and purposes, as according to the Dicefreaks Divinity rules. These benefits are included in the template.

A Herald's manufactured and natural attacks are all considered to be Good, Lawful, and Epic for the purposes of bypassing Damage Reduction. They also gain DR 20/Epic, and if destroyed, will reform within the Law of Cycles, indestructible so long as it exists intact.

A Herald is immune to polymorphing, petrification, and any other attack that changes her form, though she is capable of using any shapechanging abilities on herself or consenting to them willingly. She is not subject to energy drain, ability drain, or ability damage, and is immune to mind-affecting effects. In addition, they gain Resistance 20 to one energy type of their choice (fire, cold, electricity, acid, sonic).

A Herald gains Spell Resistance equal to 32 + ½ HD.

There's No Way I'll Regret It: A Herald of Madoka does not possess a Soul Gem, or anything that implies. They may have an object resembling it, but it's merely a part of their Henshin outfit and has no special significance.

Abilities: +4 WIS, minimum 10.

Feats: The Herald gains Iron Will and Pure Soul as bonus feats.

CR: +6

Advancement: None

LA: –

[AbridgingCritic]

First of all, I am super into this whole homebrew system! I absolutely love the show's premise and I can see how well it works from all your time and effort put into making it. Amazing Job@

I was wondering though, I have tried planning out certain Akuba Witches for possible campaigns. I've even tried planning Witches for my Mahou Shoujo NPCs. However, my questions are about the transfer between Akuba and Mahou Shoujo:

1. When I transfer the character, do you recommend I change their existing feats if they do not work for an NPC Akuba? Say a character turns into a Draconic/Plant/etc-inspired Akuba? Would you recommend I change their Mahou Shoujo feats that don't really mesh well with their new monstrous type into Monster or other feat types?
2. What about attacks as an Akuba? Should I simply replace their existing weapons with ones D&D monsters have? E.g.: a girl with a staff --> Akuba with a lashing attack; spellcaster with a wand --> spell-like ability Akuba or a long-range attack?

Honestly I am simply looking for your advice on this since you've probably playtested it more than I've been able to? Should I make a House Ruling decision or do you have any relevant advice?

[AuraTwilight]

To both those questions: Yes and No, at your preference. The standard assumption of the template is that you're applying it to an entirely different monster that symbolically resonates, so change feats, attacks, and everything else as necessary. Sayaka wasn't a water elemental Magical Girl in any demonstrable way, but that didn't stop her Witch any.

[AbridgingCritic]

Here's another question about Akuba. I'm creating a campaign using the Akuba/Grief Seed system for the Madoka Series, but instead of the Mahou Shoujo class I am using the Tome of Radiance Magical Girl Classes.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...ve-and-Justice

If I want to create an Akuba from a deceased MG, how would I go about doing that. The Tome of Radiance classes have the ability to craft spell-like powers, and gain bonuses to their costumes fueled by their magic point pool. Since the Akuba template is geared towards the Mahou Shoujo class and provides an Akuba with spell-like abilities, what should I do to compensate for lack of a spell list?