Shadowrun Topic(Talk & Questions)

[The Random NPC]

Haha, well what was the GM expecting from runners?

Superheros. Literal, honest to goodness, morally pure heroes. Needless to say (since we were never told) we did not comply.

[comicshorse]

Superheros. Literal, honest to goodness, morally pure heroes. Needless to say (since we were never told) we did not comply.

(Astonished silence)
Er...yeah that's really something you need to get all the P.C.s on board for BEFORE the characters are created

[The Random NPC]

(Astonished silence)
Er...yeah that's really something you need to get all the P.C.s on board for BEFORE the characters are created

Yeah, we ended up having to explain a lot of things that a veteran GM should know, but he did not. Wish I could say he got better, but we haven't gamed together since.

[DigoDragon]

Superheros. Literal, honest to goodness, morally pure heroes. Needless to say (since we were never told) we did not comply.

Heck, when my old group played super heroes and were told to be good, they were never 'morally pure'.
But yeah, if you weren't told from the get go, you really can't be faulted for not meeting the expectations.

[TheJudicator]

Hey guys. I just recently picked up Shadowrun, and I gotta say what I've read of it has me itching to play sometime (my group runs almost exclusively PF/D&D, so chances are slim but we shall see!).

The version I picked up is 5e (I'm not looking for an edition debate here, just being clear ^^; ), and I'm having a question that could use clarification. So, I turn to you guys, the experts for aid.

The theme is licenses. In equipment, it states that any item with an availability suffix of Restricted requires a license, though it is particularly elusive to me when such a license would come into play. Does it strictly come into question only with security and law enforcement, or are other situations in the Sixth World that call such a legality into question? Also, are the prices for getting legit licenses the same as fake ones?

Lastly, I haven't found much clarity on ow much a single license will cover. Were a licensing situation to arise, would a license cover one piece of equipment and solely that (like say, an Ares Predator V, cyberdeck, grapple gun), or would a license cover a group of items (say, pistols, blades, hacking, etc)?

Thank you guys in advance for the help in this matter. At this point, I've scraped together several potential runner PCs in preparation of playing sometime, and hoping to cause some drek soon :)

[Requiem_Jeer]

A license is a document that says you have a legitimate non-criminal reason to possess this dangerous thing. As you have a legitimate purpose, you thus don't care if they know certain details such as that you know about it.

In order to have a legal license, you have to have a SIN that isn't fake, a profession appropriate for the license, and that stuff will be registered and you can be easily tracked in the event of the object being used in a crime.

A fake one is what is checked when you need to pass borders or get caught with it in a situation that isn't you doing something illegal with it. If you have F-rated stuff too though, you could just not bother with the fake licenses.

[LibraryOgre]

The version I picked up is 5e (I'm not looking for an edition debate here, just being clear ^^; ), and I'm having a question that could use clarification. So, I turn to you guys, the experts for aid.

In general, I haven't found Shadowrun players to be too obnoxious about editions, I will say. We may have one that's our favorite and that we prefer, but I haven't seen a ton of "X edition sucks and the players of it are stupid".

[Sith_Happens]

In general, I haven't found Shadowrun players to be too obnoxious about editions, I will say. We may have one that's our favorite and that we prefer, but I haven't seen a ton of "X edition sucks and the players of it are stupid".

That's probably because, from what I gather from this thread, every edition is awful in its own unique ways.

[Telwar]

That's probably because, from what I gather from this thread, every edition is awful in its own unique ways.

Heh, true. I mean, my favorite is 4e, but it has its own issues, same as 1e, 2e, 3e, and 5e.

[runeghost]

That's probably because, from what I gather from this thread, every edition is awful in its own unique ways.

So very, very true.

[Anonymouswizard]

HI, I'm planning to run a fifth edition game in a couple of weeks, and although I'm clear on how the rules work for pretty much everything short of rituals, rigging, and the specifics of astral space (although I get that it's in essence a 'magical matrix' rules-wise), I am confused by how you generate a Technomancer's living persona attributes. Device rating is clear, but for the other four attributes (ASDF) the technomancer built in the example character-building section seems to have ratings two higher than a direct reading of the rules would suggest (and the rules in both the character generation chapter and matrix chapter are rather vague except for 'this matrix attribute is based off this mental attribute. So assuming I had ratings of WIL 6, LOG 5, INT 4, CHA 3, would my ratings be:

1) A 3, S 4, D 5, F 6, or

2) A 5, S 6, D 7, F 8?


Also, I have a few questions with regards to the setting:

1) I'll be setting the campaign in London, as it's the one city I can guarantee that we all know, so does anyone have advice on differences to the standard assumptions? I understand that firearms are going to be far more restricted than in UCAS, but is it a case of 'encouraging 'discrete' melee weapons' or 'encouraging concealable firearms'? And is it reasonable to have orks would slightly better treated than most metatypes? (goblins being the most English of fantasy races, and I even plan on using hobgoblin as a slang term for 'charismatic ork' instead of the official ork variant, going for the original meaning)

2) Is there any offical stance on exactly what technomancers are, or is it safe to play them up as 'matrix mages' (almost exactly like mages metaphysically, except with the matrix replacing the astral plane. I'm interpreting the astral plane as the source of all mana, as far as British insitutions understand metaphysics, so please correct me is this is officially incorrect)?

3) If a megacorporation had developed a biological weapon, would it be concievable for them to release it in a populated area as a discrete test ("helping" with the quarantine to make covering it up easier of course) of it's actual practicality?

[comicshorse]

1) I'll be setting the campaign in London, as it's the one city I can guarantee that we all know, so does anyone have advice on differences to the standard assumptions? I understand that firearms are going to be far more restricted than in UCAS, but is it a case of 'encouraging 'discrete' melee weapons' or 'encouraging concealable firearms'? And is it reasonable to have orks would slightly better treated than most metatypes? (goblins being the most English of fantasy races, and I even plan on using hobgoblin as a slang term for 'charismatic ork' instead of the official ork variant, going for the original meaning)

There is a London sourcebook for Shadowrun. It was written for 2nd Edition but as its pretty much entirely fluff its still very usable (and one of the best Shadowrun supplements ever IMHO).
Firearms (and cyberware) are much more restricted in England so the firearms situation is usually 'use melee weapons cause you can't get a hold of firearms'. Seriously I ran in a game once where only one of the party actually started the game with a gun.
Even if you can get a gun smart 'runners will want it to be concealable because they are so rare that most police will view one being carried as a reason to demand licence's and I.d.'s. Actually starting a gunfight is liable to get Armed Response converging on your position at maximum speed. (So buy a silencer as well).
Incidentally it posits british slang for orks as being 'baldricks' but that reference may have passed it sell by date.

If a megacorporation had developed a biological weapon, would it be concievable for them to release it in a populated area as a discrete test ("helping" with the quarantine to make covering it up easier of course) of it's actual practicality?

This is a huge risk to take, any corporation found doing this is going to be gutted not just by the local authorities but other mega-corps are going to turn on it just because this is such horrible publicity for all of them that they will want to 'cleanse' themselves by destroying the offending corporation.
That said there is always the chance of some executive thinking he has the perfect scapegoat and risking everything. But the security around this will be INSANE and anybody finding this out will be targeted for immediate termination

[Anonymouswizard]

There is a London sourcebook for Shadowrun. It was written for 2nd Edition but as its pretty much entirely fluff its still very usable (and one of the best Shadowrun supplements ever IMHO).
Firearms (and cyberware) are much more restricted in England so the firearms situation is usually 'use melee weapons cause you can't get a hold of firearms'. Seriously I ran in a game once where only one of the party actually started the game with a gun.
Even if you can get a gun smart 'runners will want it to be concealable because they are so rare that most police will view one being carried as a reason to demand licence's and I.d.'s. Actually starting a gunfight is liable to get Armed Response converging on your position at maximum speed. (So buy a silencer as well).
Incidentally it posits british slang for orks as being 'baldricks' but that reference may have passed it sell by date.

I'll see if I can find the sourcebook in a legal way, but I'm on a student budget so it might be a case of 'what seems right'.

With regards to the weapons thing, I'd assume that would be the case, but just wanted to double check. I'll probably move almost every weapon up to restricted or higher (forbidden on most firearms), and also eliminate concealed carry licences, to make my player think about how their weapons are concealed.

Even more restricted cyberwear huh? That's fun, the one player who has given me a concept is playing an elven street sam I assume bioware is restricted as well.

So these orks have cunning plans I take it? I'll have to look into the book's slang if nothing else then.

This is a huge risk to take, any corporation found doing this is going to be gutted not just by the local authorities but other mega-corps are going to turn on it just because this is such horrible publicity for all of them that they will want to 'cleanse' themselves by destroying the offending corporation.
That said there is always the chance of some executive thinking he has the perfect scapegoat and risking everything. But the security around this will be INSANE and anybody finding this out will be targeted for immediate termination

This is starting to sound like an even better backstory for a run. Possibly I'll stick with my original 'whodunit+cleanup' plan, but it sounds like a much better excuse to let them chase and beat up a group of morally-questionable runners under the orders of a sensible executive. Then as a parting shot the executive who tried it tips off the police to the identities of any illegally augmented PCs. He then gets defenestrated and turns up later with a vendetta against the PCs. This is sounding like a better basis for a campaign than my original idea.

[comicshorse]

Even more restricted cyberwear huh? That's fun, the one player who has given me a concept is playing an elven street sam I assume bioware is restricted as well.

Bioware isn't specifically mentioned ( I think the book predates it) but given England's treating of cyberware it would be perfectly logical for it to be just as restricted.
Oh and don't think Magicians get an easy ride, they get their own set of laws and problems

This is starting to sound like an even better backstory for a run. Possibly I'll stick with my original 'whodunit+cleanup' plan, but it sounds like a much better excuse to let them chase and beat up a group of morally-questionable runners under the orders of a sensible executive. Then as a parting shot the executive who tried it tips off the police to the identities of any illegally augmented PCs. He then gets defenestrated and turns up later with a vendetta against the PCs. This is sounding like a better basis for a campaign than my original idea.

Obviously if it comes out the executive who arranged the outbreak is going to be wanted very dead by the Corpration and will have had to flee and hidden with the underworld (perhaps with the terrorist group he was planning to scapegoat in the first place). (S)he is, of course, going to want revenge on the PC's who revealed his plans

[Lord Torath]

Shadowtech and the London source book both came out in 1992, just before the 2nd Edition was released. Not sure which one came first. Bioware is generally easier to get away with, as it's usually not visible, and is much harder to detect.

[Maquise]

Right, so for anyone who has Run and Gun, can somebody explain to me why anyone would get an Ares One mono-sword? It seems objectively weaker and more expensive than a katana, unless I'm completely misreading it.

[Tome]

Right, so for anyone who has Run and Gun, can somebody explain to me why anyone would get an Ares One mono-sword? It seems objectively weaker and more expensive than a katana, unless I'm completely misreading it.

Your reading is accurate.

I'm guessing some forgot to check what the actual stats were for the katana. That's pretty much in line with the quality of 5E books so far, sadly.

[Maquise]

Your reading is accurate.

I'm guessing some forgot to check what the actual stats were for the katana. That's pretty much in line with the quality of 5E books so far, sadly.

Would having it be AP -4 be a reasonable houserule?

[comicshorse]

Shadowtech and the London source book both came out in 1992, just before the 2nd Edition was released. Not sure which one came first. Bioware is generally easier to get away with, as it's usually not visible, and is much harder to detect.

Shadowtech was released in 1992 but the London sourcebook was in 1991. I thought it was before biotech, I am vindicated !

[Fibinachi]

Right, so for anyone who has Run and Gun, can somebody explain to me why anyone would get an Ares One mono-sword? It seems objectively weaker and more expensive than a katana, unless I'm completely misreading it.

Your katana, in a fit of improbable statistics, fails it armor roll against a mage casting ice storm at you. It breaks because of the special cold damage.
(This is almost impossible, and the opposing mage is utterly shocked because in his 57 years of Corporate service busting down Shadowrunners this has never, ever happened before and he has witnessed an actual honest to god miracle)

You are now bereft of a katana! And a mage is gearing up for turning you into a Shadow-cicle, which is like an icicle but with more trenchcoat. Thankfully you find, near you, in a rubbish bin, an Ares One Mono-Sword someone discarded with great disgust after it failed to open the plastic wrapper on his soy-burger.

With great trepidation your initiative pass comes, and it is now your turn to pick your only correct action for surviving the impending cold front. You run towards the rubbish bin, and reach for the Ares One Mono Sword. You clasp your hand tightly around the edge of the rubbish bin, and use it to propel yourself forward towards the enemy mage, knowing that in all honesty your fists is probably a better choice than the Ares One Mono Sword.

.... Sorry, no, I can't think of why you'd ever use one as a player. It is worse in every metric I can think of than other weapons that are infinitively more available and less prone to making people ask you pointed questions. I did run a group of Ares Security Response Goons who were attending a theme party where they had been issued the Ares One swords as part of their in-character uniforms as Samurai. They also had around 50 Samurai drones walking around. It was fun.

-4 Ap is probably a decent houserule. In all honesty I half expect it's meant to be -8, since the monofilament whip is -8 in SR5Core. Assuming the sword has less Ap is probably a good balancing point since there's no the added danger of hitting yourself with it.

[Lord Torath]

Shadowtech was released in 1992 but the London sourcebook was in 1991. I thought it was before biotech, I am vindicated !

Gah! You are right! Somehow I read 2052 and turned that into 1992.

[DigoDragon]

And a mage is gearing up for turning you into a Shadow-cicle, which is like an icicle but with more trenchcoat.

This is where I honesty lost it laughing.

[Telwar]

Shadowtech was released in 1992 but the London sourcebook was in 1991. I thought it was before biotech, I am vindicated !

SR4's Conspiracy Theories supplement has an update on both London and DC.

I was pleasantly surprised to find my neighborhood in Northern Virginia is now an uninhabitable wasteland.

[comicshorse]

(This is almost impossible, and the opposing mage is utterly shocked because in his 57 years of Corporate service busting down Shadowrunners this has never, ever happened before and he has witnessed an actual honest to god miracle)

Another example of Corporate evil, forcing a 75 year old man to still work combat duty

I was pleasantly surprised to find my neighborhood in Northern Virginia is now an uninhabitable wasteland.

Mine too, now part of the Yorkshire Fringe Zone

[Speaker]

Why do people dislike the 5th edition? I thought it was alright.

[The Random NPC]

I believe the consensus is that while decent, it is missing a lot of information. Coupled with bad editing, many would give it a pass until a few more books (or rewrites) are out until they give it another shot.

[Anonymouswizard]

Is there anywhere that gives NPC stats for non- human HMHVV infectees for 5e? If not, would they be any more complex than adding the racial template and maybe a power or two?

Also, I assume that someone who had cybereyes who turned into a ghoul would retain vision? This is important as I intend to have a ghoul street samurai as a part of the first run (to start dropping hints regarding the tube ghouls before they actually appear), and to my understanding a person's sight is fairly important to their ability to fight. If not, how would a ghoul realistically wield a sword and avoid his enemies?

[LibraryOgre]

Is there anywhere that gives NPC stats for non- human HMHVV infectees for 5e? If not, would they be any more complex than adding the racial template and maybe a power or two?

Also, I assume that someone who had cybereyes who turned into a ghoul would retain vision? This is important as I intend to have a ghoul street samurai as a part of the first run (to start dropping hints regarding the tube ghouls before they actually appear), and to my understanding a person's sight is fairly important to their ability to fight. If not, how would a ghoul realistically wield a sword and avoid his enemies?

Keep in mind that ghouls are dual-natured; that means they can "see" in Astral space, and that they can use that for targeting. In earlier editions, purely physical actions while relying on astral sight were +2 to the TN; assuming 5e kept something similar to 4e, I'd say a -2 dice penalty on physical actions relying on astral sight would be reasonable (and perhaps negated, due to his great hearing and sense of smell).

Also, having him wipe his sword with his own blood, if injured, then attacking? REALLY good way to ratchet up the tension of the scene.

[Maquise]

This brings up a good point; how does anyone run a game with HVMVV in it?

[Anonymouswizard]

Keep in mind that ghouls are dual-natured; that means they can "see" in Astral space, and that they can use that for targeting. In earlier editions, purely physical actions while relying on astral sight were +2 to the TN; assuming 5e kept something similar to 4e, I'd say a -2 dice penalty on physical actions relying on astral sight would be reasonable (and perhaps negated, due to his great hearing and sense of smell).

Also, having him wipe his sword with his own blood, if injured, then attacking? REALLY good way to ratchet up the tension of the scene.

I had forgotten that ghouls could astrally percieve. And dual natured in 5e cancels the penalty for interacting with the world you aren't perceiving.

Cybereyes still sound like an advantage, even if it's just because walls have no aura

Still, a blind swordsman who wipes his blood on his blade is freaky...