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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Default Re: Shadowrun Topic(Talk & Questions)

    Quote Originally Posted by comicshorse View Post
    Ki-Adepts ?
    That appears to be the German term for physical adepts. Old editions of Shadowrun were translated to a bunch of languages. (Including Finnish.)

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    Default Re: Shadowrun Topic(Talk & Questions)

    We had a few unique brands for shadowrun, like Behemoth Beer (sold only in oversized buckets and marketed to trolls), victory cigarettes and gin (the very cheapest brand around, based on the generic brands in 1984), Longporc! (a human meat flavored energy drink) and its German rival product Wurstwasser (basically the same, only more extreme, because in Shadowrun, everything is more extreme in Germany).

    For entertainment and stuff, we usually had the basic assumption, that pretty much all official stuff is bland, dull and based on escapism, with little substance or complexity, and that the exchangeability of programs, shows and actors was basically a running gag (up to the point where a dead or inconveniently lost actor of any of the more popular shows will be replaced with an exact double within 24 hours thanks to the wonders of plastic surgery), and that actors usually wear personafix chips of the characters they play with enforced dialogue added to the mix anyway, so that they are basically talent-free by default.
    It is a bit different with SimSinn products, but not by a large margin.

    Non-underground music is basically the same: The whole acoustics are solely created by computers anyway, the "artists" are nothing but eye candy to give a human face to the whole charade. Everyone of them is utterly exchangeable and dull.
    Underground music is a bit more lifelike (and there is a relevant overlap of actual underground artists who become popular enough to well, become public figures), but in that case, at my table the term Cyberpunk pretty much defines narrows down what kind of music is appropriate for the game.
    Play the world, not the rules. Numbers don't add up to a game - ideas do.

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    Default Re: Shadowrun Topic(Talk & Questions)

    Quote Originally Posted by Daremonai View Post
    That's just what they called adepts in earlier versions (do they still call them "physical adepts"/physads, or has that gone now too?)
    Oh I thought they'd always been called Physical Adepts/physads


    That appears to be the German term for physical adepts. Old editions of Shadowrun were translated to a bunch of languages. (Including Finnish.)
    Ah that makes sense. Thanks
    Last edited by comicshorse; 2013-10-18 at 09:59 AM.
    All Comicshorse's posts come with the advisor : This is just my opinion any difficulties arising from implementing my ideas are your own problem

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    Default Re: Shadowrun Topic(Talk & Questions)

    Quote Originally Posted by comicshorse View Post
    'When Mages explode' reality show of amusing(?) clips of magical accidents
    That is an awesome show concept.
    Might be the first reality show I'd watch.


    Quote Originally Posted by Black Jester View Post
    Longporc! (a human meat flavored energy drink) and its German rival product Wurstwasser (basically the same, only more extreme, because in Shadowrun, everything is more extreme in Germany).
    Hilarious stuff! I always thought Germany was pretty extreme too.


    One GM I had used to record himself doing Megacorp commercials (using old 50s/60s jingles) and he'd play them during downtime or as an ice breaker before the session officially started. He had a way of capturing that dark humor from commercials found in Robocop. It really fit.
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  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigoDragon View Post
    He had a way of capturing that dark humor from commercials found in Robocop. It really fit.
    The commercials and news clips are probably my favorite part of that movie, and are perfecy cyberpunk material. I think that sort of stuff is great for setting the tone.

    I think that, as a lover of old-school random tables, I am now compelled to start compiling three for Shadowrun: Random Television/Tri-D Show, Random Sim, and Random BTL ...

    Edit:
    I love how much a succinct description of media can say (from CP2020's Home of the Brave):
    "MOVIE-Drama; 3 hrs. *****
    "All This, and Rich Too!" (2011) Allison Hernandez-Quinn is superb in this dramatization of the General Motors advertisement. George Valentine."
    Last edited by Rhynn; 2013-10-18 at 01:46 PM.

  6. - Top - End - #36
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    Default Re: Shadowrun Topic(Talk & Questions)

    Hi umm…. I think I need some 4th 20th anniversary help.

    I'm basically making an orc technomancer. long story short, I made him for one php, but it didn't even start, so I ported him over to the new interest thread hoping that this one will take off.

    and basically his concept is he is both a combat guy and a technomancer guy. but apparently he is suppose to be more specialized because they keep saying I need to either be technomancer who grows into a better combat type or a combat type or who grows into a technomancer. and I just can't decide and remake my build for either cause I conceptualized him as a guy who was already both, who blended combat and technomancy already into something cohesive.

    and problem is I just can't figure out how to remake the character into something good for Shadowrun, or even if its not good. I….just don't know really. which is why I am asking for help. here is his sheet:

    Spoiler: Crunch
    Show

    Personal Data (0/400 BP)
    Name: Galtan Scallard
    Primary Alias: Cyberfang
    Metatype: Ork (20 BP)
    Ethnicity: none
    Age: 24
    Sex: Male

    Positive Qualities (35 BP total)
    Technomancer (5 BP)
    Ambidextrous (5 BP)
    Quick Healer (10 BP)
    Toughness (10 BP)
    Obscure (5 BP)

    Negative Qualities: (-35 BP Total)
    Wanted (10)
    Poor Self Control, Combat Monster (10)
    Sensitive System (15)

    Total Karma:
    Current Karma:
    Street Cred:
    Notoriety:

    Attributes (170 BP total)
    Body: 4
    Agility: 4 (30 BP)
    Reaction: 3 (20 BP)
    Strength: 4

    Charisma: 3 (20 BP)
    Intuition: 5 (40 BP)
    Logic: 4 (30 BP)
    Willpower: 3 (20 BP)

    Second Attributes
    Total Edge: 1
    Current Edge: 1
    Essence: 6
    Resonance: 5 (40 BP)

    Initiative: 8
    Initiative Passes:
    Matrix Initiative: 8
    Astral Initiative:

    Skills (100 BP)
    Active:
    Cracking Skill Group: 3 (30 BP)
    Tasking Skill Group: 2 (20 BP)
    Pistols: 3 (12 BP)
    Demolitions: 3 (12 BP)
    Infiltration: 3 (12 BP)
    Con: 3 (12 BP)

    Knowledge: (27 skill points)
    Corporate Matrix Security Systems: 4
    Data Havens: 3
    Operating Systems: 3
    Ork Culture: 3
    Matrix Theory: 3

    Language:
    Native Language: English (leetspeak +2)
    Japanese: 2 (2 BP)
    Mandarin: 2
    Cantonese: 2
    Or'zet: 2

    Core Combat Info
    Primary Armor: (6/4)

    Primary Ranged Weapon
    Colt America L36
    Dam: 4P AP:- Mode: SA RC:- Ammo: 11

    Primary Melee Weapon
    Unarmed
    Reach:- Dam: 2S AP:-

    Condition Monitor
    Physical Damage
    -1: 3
    -2: 3
    -3: 3
    -4: 3
    -5: 3
    -6: 3

    Stun Damage
    -1: 3
    -2: 3
    -3: 3
    -4: 3

    Resources: 4655/10,000 nuyen (2 BP)
    ID/Lifestyle/Currency
    Primary Lifestyle: Low (2000 nuyen)
    Nuyen: 400 + 4655
    Licenses: Fake SIN: John Smith, Fake Gun License
    Fake IDs/Related Lifestyles/Funds/Licenses:
    Fake SIN: Jang Si Thai

    Gear
    2 Colt America L36's (300 nuyen)
    Lined Coat (700 Nuyen)
    (1st) Fake SIN 1 (1000 Nuyen)
    Fake Gun License (100 Nuyen)
    (2nd) Fake SIN 1 (1000 Nuyen)
    Tag Eraser (150 Nuyen)
    Glasses 1 w/ Flare Compensation (75 Nuyen)
    Chisel (20 Nuyen)

    Contacts (12 BP)
    Fixer: 3 connection/3 loyalty
    Street Doc: 3 Connection/ 3 loyalty

    Tradition: Cyberadept

    Complex Forms (56 BP)
    Free, Biofeedback: 3
    Decrypt: 5
    Stealth: 5
    Spoof: 5
    Black Hammer: 5
    Analyze: 5
    Browse: 5
    Data Search: 4
    Edit: 5
    Armor: 5
    Attack: 5
    Exploit: 4
    Sniffer: 3



    Spoiler: Fluff
    Show

    Personality:
    Direct, boisterous and possessed with a dark humor, he nonetheless has a keen mind that is constantly reading the situation and trying to figure out what to do next in the most expedient manner he can, tending towards the practical and pragmatic.

    Description:
    He has a blue mohawk, with big blue shades over his eyes. He wears all black clothing including a long coat, over his stocky form, with two big fangs jutting out from his lower jaw

    Backstory:
    He grew up on the streets, to a low-income Ork family whose father taught him to defend himself amidst a harsh uncaring world. He was one of the smarter ones, and did hacking jobs for the local gangs to help protect his family and to earn money through illicit activities since he was a child. As he became older, he got into brawls and firefights more and no was just a hacker, but a fighter for his family- anything to keep them safe, for they were his light in a dark world.

    However then the Crash 2.0 came. He was one of the hackers who was exposed to the Matrix when it crashed and gained Technomancer powers because of it. He was confused and dazed at first, and thought he could use this new ability. However, when people began their technomancer witch hunts to try and kill them all. He knew he could not stay with his family anymore, knowing that if they were caught up in the extermination, he would never forgive himself.

    So he bid farewell to his family, knowing that he was keeping them safe by staying away from them. So he went far away, to another city to start his life over, sticking to more physical jobs until the Technomancer witch hunts died down…mostly. If the job paid well enough, he would use whatever abilities he had at hand to carry it out. Eventually he would come to be known as Cyberfang among the local community, known for his tendency to aggressively hack his targets to get the jobs done.


    so yeah, I'm just confused….is it good? bad? can I keep this concept or will it have to be changed more towards technomancy or combat or what?
    I'm also on discord as "raziere".


  7. - Top - End - #37
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    Default Re: Shadowrun Topic(Talk & Questions)

    It's an SR4E problem; 400 BP are very little to work with, so you have to specialize, hard. You're not going to get a well-rounded character no matter how hard you try, really.

    You really should have the Cracking and Tasking groups at 4 (the maximum at character creation), but even that doesn't make you great; having the individual skills at ratings of 4-6 might be better. But then you're left with pretty much no points for combat or stealth (although taking a single weapon skill at a high rating is easy). Right now, your primary skills (Tasking group) are at a shockingly low 2 (a big no-no for any character), and your critical secondaries (Cracking group) are at 3.

    Your attributes are also very spread out an "even," meaning you're not particularly good at any one thing.

    Both of these issues will weaken your performance at anything you do. If the GM is expecting focused characters, you won't be up to the challenges you're likely to face.

    Quick Healer, Toughness, and Ambidexterity seem pretty useless for your build. You're not focused on combat, so you don't want to use two weapons since you won't really benefit from it anyway. The other two just aren't very good.

    You can benchmark yourself against the fairly unoptimized example archetypes. You're nowhere near the equivalent of the Street Samurai or even the Sprawl Ganger in a fight, and a technomancer generally has better things to do in a fight than shoot at peopel anyway. You're actually not that much worse at being a technomancer than the archetype, which makes me wonder where they put his points... (Attributes, looks like.)

    Also, lack of wired reflexes pretty much disqualifies you from pulling real weight in a fight, especially in SR4 with the "hard" IPs.

  8. - Top - End - #38
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    Default Re: Shadowrun Topic(Talk & Questions)

    Quote Originally Posted by DigoDragon View Post
    Here's a thought; Given the game takes place in the future (2050s-70s) have any groups come up with new cultural fluff for TV/music/internet memes/etc.?

    Like, in my campaigns the group came up with a Techno-Country music genre and the most famous singer from that is "Johnny Nuyen". There's an ork boy band called "Occam's Razors", and my personal favorite was this continuing trid series I invented called "Gettysburg 2099" (about Earth's first interstellar colony undergoing a civil war).
    Shadowbeat.

    Shadowbeat.

    Shadowbeat.

    It talks about music, trid, simsense. How they work, what they show. You want a California Hot? It's a simsense with some of the gain controls turned off. Not quite a BTL, where the gains are amped through the roof, but a bigger experience that a regular simchip.

    Anyone else remember the rocker archetype from 1st edition? You want to know how popular your rocker is? There you go. Buy it like lifestyle.
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    Default Re: Shadowrun Topic(Talk & Questions)

    "Friggin' Chicken! You'll swear it's the best!"

    "Man, that is some good fu-err, I mean, friggin' chicken!"
    One of my old characters was a Face who made a career as a B-movie trideo actor, usually in movies about shadowruns. Things got awkward when the runs proved to be based off true stories, and he ended up meeting the team the movie had portrayed.

    (Naturally, they were nothing like the movie: the grim-'n'-gritty human mage he'd portrayed was an elf; the rigger in the movie was a Bust-A-Move!, when the real-life rigger was an ork with a stutter; about the only things the movie got right were the details of how the run was done, and that turned out to be the result of a free spirit writing it.)
    It is inevitable, of course, that persons of epicurean refinement will in the course of eternity engage in dealings with those of... unsavory character. Record well any transactions made, and repay all favors promptly.. (Thanks to Gnomish Wanderer for the Toreador avatar! )

    Wanna see what all this Exalted stuff is about? Here's a primer!

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    Default Re: Shadowrun Topic(Talk & Questions)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    but apparently he is suppose to be more specialized because they keep saying I need to either be technomancer who grows into a better combat type or a combat type or who grows into a technomancer.
    Echoing what Rhynn said, you probably want to focus on being a technomancer. Though if you really want to still shoot something, you could always buy a small drone, install a decent weapon, and then either remote control it, or compile a sprite to operate it for you.

    It may not be efficient at killing, but it can help lay some cover fire for the big guy on your team.
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    Default Re: Shadowrun Topic(Talk & Questions)

    Tomorow, we begin a new old Shadowrun campaign (with the only useful limitation: only books published by FASA count as legitimate source, so basically most of the system's and setting's decline will be ignored. I am positively excited!
    Play the world, not the rules. Numbers don't add up to a game - ideas do.

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    Default Re: Shadowrun Topic(Talk & Questions)

    Man, made a post then got busy as heck for a few days.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhynn View Post
    This is excellent and correct, IMO. While different people will have different approaches, I think that in the setting by-the-book, shadowrunners are not consummate professionals chosen for their ability to pull the job off without a hitch. Teams like that exist, but they are tied to the megacorps. Shadowrunners are dirtbags chosen not for their skill, but for their expendability. While you usually (not always!*) want a group that will pull off its objective, you're more concerned with deniability. You wouldn't use shadowrunners for jobs that absolutely must go off without a hitch; you'd use them for jobs where you don't mind if they fail and cause a lot of destruction, where that may even be a sort of secondary objective. They didn't extract the scientist, but they shot up the lab? Good enough!
    I will need to keep this in mind for my next SR game. Making sure my players create Shadowrunners, wort's and all.
    Aside from "have fun", i think the key to GMing is putting your players into situations where they need to make a choice that has no perfect outcome available. They will hate you for it, but they will be back at the table session after session.

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    Default Re: Shadowrun Topic(Talk & Questions)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaun View Post
    Making sure my players create Shadowrunners, wort's and all.
    The worts are the best part in my opinion. I love the quirks a Johnson gets when they put a team together. One of my favorite characters was a child actor who never found a break in the biz after he became an adult. He had a bunch of acting and disguise skills that applied pretty well to being a runner.

    ...except he was a total ham kind of actor.


    How often to runners in your groups utilize disguises? Despite the large number of B&E jobs my team gets, most of them don't think to even cover their faces with a simple mask.
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    Default Re: Shadowrun Topic(Talk & Questions)

    Quote Originally Posted by DigoDragon View Post
    The worts are the best part in my opinion. I love the quirks a Johnson gets when they put a team together. One of my favorite characters was a child actor who never found a break in the biz after he became an adult. He had a bunch of acting and disguise skills that applied pretty well to being a runner.

    ...except he was a total ham kind of actor.


    How often to runners in your groups utilize disguises? Despite the large number of B&E jobs my team gets, most of them don't think to even cover their faces with a simple mask.
    My players generally use disguises and masks and stuff.

    They tend to over prepare for minor elements in a run and then forget about major ones.

    For example, they will spend ages trying to figure out if the security guard has a set patrol pattern when doing his perimeter check but they won't come up with an exit strategy for their B&E at all.
    Aside from "have fun", i think the key to GMing is putting your players into situations where they need to make a choice that has no perfect outcome available. They will hate you for it, but they will be back at the table session after session.

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    Default Re: Shadowrun Topic(Talk & Questions)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaun View Post
    They tend to over prepare for minor elements in a run and then forget about major ones.
    My group does that too. The job goes smoothly until it's time to leave. Then the collateral starts. This is usually where 90% of the PCs in my games get killed in a mission.

    Sadly, hackers in my group are also among the shortest lived characters too. Most PCs who play a hacker seem to ignore online stealth. They'll just brute force their way through the system and touch everything until security sends a bunch of IC after them. I dunno why that is.

    Is there just something about being a hacker that you have to blindly hack EVERYTHING within range?
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    Default Re: Shadowrun Topic(Talk & Questions)

    The problem is that the mechanics don't support the part time runners lifestyle. Gear is expensive, and you can live a long time off your starting gear if you were to sell it.

    Even worse is that cars and other **** is easy to steal or kill someone for. Runners are not going to risk their life infiltrating a corp facility for a measly 2-3k nuyen.

    That is not to say you can't even make it so shadowrunners feel the economy. A proper run takes a lot of resources to pull off. Fake SINs, bribes, specialized equipment, etc. Also big 'runs are a once in 2-3 months deal, during which there are lifestyle costs to pay.

    If you have a big run that pays 15-20k per runner once every three months, then after you take care of expenses you could only be left with less then 5k profit after those 3 months, which is not a lot compared to how much some gear costs.

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    Default Re: Shadowrun Topic(Talk & Questions)

    Quote Originally Posted by DigoDragon View Post
    Sadly, hackers in my group are also among the shortest lived characters too. Most PCs who play a hacker seem to ignore online stealth. They'll just brute force their way through the system and touch everything until security sends a bunch of IC after them. I dunno why that is.

    Is there just something about being a hacker that you have to blindly hack EVERYTHING within range?
    The guy who loved to play a matrix specialist in my group is the other way. While he still try's to hack 90% of everything he is paranoid as balls, it can get tedious some times watching him navigate a system.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tehnar View Post
    The problem is that the mechanics don't support the part time runners lifestyle.
    But that's the thing... they do.. if you sell the setting right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tehnar View Post
    Gear is expensive, and you can live a long time off your starting gear if you were to sell it.
    you would only get 10 - 20% of the value of that gear if sold after character creation if my memory serves me correctly. But it has been a while since i read the books and i don't have them handy.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tehnar View Post
    Even worse is that cars and other **** is easy to steal or kill someone for. Runners are not going to risk their life infiltrating a corp facility for a measly 2-3k nuyen.
    In Shadowrun you are risking your life driving to the stuffer shack for a pack of smokes and a soycaf. If you don't push the Dystopian elements of the game none of it makes sense. Every time your runner sets a foot outside his safe house he has to worry about gang violence, hate groups, terrorists, trigger happy corp security, crooked cops who don't like paper work, organ traffickers, organised crime groups, eco activists, nut job toxic shamans and so on... and that's before you even add in starvation and disease.

    Your runners risk their lives every day anyway. At least when they risk it infiltrating a corp facility there is the chance of a pay check at the end of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tehnar View Post
    A proper run takes a lot of resources to pull off.
    I don't think this statement is true at all. If your runners try to do every operation like they are in a mission impossible movie then yeah, they are probably going to blow their budget. Runners are the cheap and nasty option for the corps. As a runner if your not making any money on your run's then you need to cut out the unnecessary fat and start relying on your skills and imagination to get the job done.

    If your plan is to expensive then re think it.

    If your blowing tons of money on ammo but you are not being paid to kill people then you are wasting money.

    If you can't afford to loose the drone then don't put it at risk unless you have no other choice.
    Last edited by Kaun; 2013-10-23 at 06:03 PM.
    Aside from "have fun", i think the key to GMing is putting your players into situations where they need to make a choice that has no perfect outcome available. They will hate you for it, but they will be back at the table session after session.

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    Default Re: Shadowrun Topic(Talk & Questions)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaun View Post
    I don't think this statement is true at all. If your runners try to do every operation like they are in a mission impossible movie then yeah, they are probably going to blow their budget. Runners are the cheap and nasty option for the corps. As a runner if your not making any money on your run's then you need to cut out the unnecessary fat and start relying on your skills and imagination to get the job done.
    Seriously. Most gear is reusable, and why (and how) are you burning SINs on every run?

    The 'runners aren't the elite corp teams. If the corps want to send in elites, they have them (SR 5E gives corp elites skills and skill groups at ratings 6-9!). They use 'runners when they want cheap, expendable, and extra-deniable.

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    Default Re: Shadowrun Topic(Talk & Questions)

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhynn View Post
    Seriously. Most gear is reusable, and why (and how) are you burning SINs on every run?

    The 'runners aren't the elite corp teams. If the corps want to send in elites, they have them (SR 5E gives corp elites skills and skill groups at ratings 6-9!). They use 'runners when they want cheap, expendable, and extra-deniable.
    The real question is, how paranoid are you, how paranoid is the GM, and how much do you get paid per week of running?
    Is it a simple smash and grab where a fast car and a spray of bullets gets you in and out? Or do you have to case the joint, make false identities, and all that fun jazz? After you get out, do you disappear or do you head straight back to your day job?

    Depending on how your GM reacts, you're either gonna be lost amongst the paperwork, or the GM is gonna set in motion crap that rolls you. Think a SIN is expensive? How about losing your lifestyle and all the fancy guns/ammo you left at your safehouse?

    What if your GM gives out dangerous jobs that pay well? Then it makes sense to be super paranoid because paying well = suicide job. Only the most dangerous corporations have stuff worth several months of luxury lifestyle.

    Here's a quick example of how a job can change depending on the GM. Say you case a joint, and then use a stolen car as a getaway vehicle. If the GM is anal retentive, then he tries to pin the stolen car to your SIN. If he wants to, he could start doing putting two and two together to put a bounty on your comlink. After the job is done, does the GM make the corp you robbed put out extra resources for revenge?

    So then the question becomes, how much work do you need to do before the GM is satisfied? The best thing to do is to have a plan that has an intentional weakness but you already secretly planned for. This takes care of the GM's urge to "challenge" players. You're already taking risks rolling dice, why take more? All that said, I'd hold off on taking jobs that require burning a high quality SIN, or even a low quality one if I could help it.

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    Default Re: Shadowrun Topic(Talk & Questions)

    A lot of this confused me, i couldn't really lock down the point you were making in many of these statements, but heck, i will have a crack at responding anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by HMS Invincible View Post
    The real question is, how paranoid are you, how paranoid is the GM, and how much do you get paid per week of running?
    Is it a simple smash and grab where a fast car and a spray of bullets gets you in and out? Or do you have to case the joint, make false identities, and all that fun jazz? After you get out, do you disappear or do you head straight back to your day job?

    Depending on how your GM reacts, you're either gonna be lost amongst the paperwork, or the GM is gonna set in motion crap that rolls you.
    Ok if your GM is out to nail you, you will get nailed... not much you can do about it so moving on.

    If you are trying to run the shadows and keep a SINer job going on the side then eventually one is going to make you loose the other. It's inevitable in my mind, unless you are in some sort of Superman/Clark situation where people find out and then die an episode or two after.

    Quote Originally Posted by HMS Invincible View Post
    Think a SIN is expensive? How about losing your lifestyle and all the fancy guns/ammo you left at your safehouse?
    Its not often i see a Runner with an actual SIN, most players seem to have their actually SIN deleted or didn't have one to begin with. I have seen a few Runners played with criminal SIN's to make things interesting. Fake SIN's is another thing, but in saying that. My theory is quantity beats quality. You may need a good fake SIN or two for certain situations, but a hand full of cheap crappy ones can be amazingly useful for a lot of the work that needs doing.

    Most automated systems won't put a SIN under too much evaluation, they will tag it, add it to their log and move on. If some one figures out it was fake later on who cares.

    Moral of the story is don't waste a good fake SIN on low key work.

    And lifestyles is another one i never bank on. Its a dangerous line of work shadowrunning, its volatile so when things are good live it up but always have a bit stashed away for when they go bad again. Here are a few tips with protecting your life style;

    Don't take your work home with you. Sure keep a gun or two in your house but don't turn the place into an armory. That's what stash spots and safe houses are for. Don't use it as a meeting point, don't lay low their if people are looking for you.

    Don't put all your eggs in one basket. Get a couple of nice pads around the place rather then one really nice one.

    Don't **** on your land lord. If your building is run by a corp, avoid work that targets them. If its run by an independent, look after the chummer.

    Keep your money in a reputable shadowbank. It will cost you but it will be harder for the Corps to target.

    Leave some equipment stashes with a few contacts or friends. Doesn't have to be much but a fire arm, a basic comlink with a fake SIN, a change of cloths or two and some med's can come in really handy in a pinch.

    Quote Originally Posted by HMS Invincible View Post
    What if your GM gives out dangerous jobs that pay well? Then it makes sense to be super paranoid because paying well = suicide job. Only the most dangerous corporations have stuff worth several months of luxury lifestyle.

    Here's a quick example of how a job can change depending on the GM. Say you case a joint, and then use a stolen car as a getaway vehicle. If the GM is anal retentive, then he tries to pin the stolen car to your SIN.
    Which SIN? If it was a hot run with weapons live was i even running one? Or if i had to was it just another crappy one that would quickly show up as being fake?

    Does he want to run a check for DNA when the vehicle turns up? Go nuts. for a hand full of ¥ at the local hospital or body shop you can get your hands on a few liters of medical waste. Throw that over the interior before you burn it and your apples.

    Quote Originally Posted by HMS Invincible View Post
    If he wants to, he could start doing putting two and two together to put a bounty on your comlink.
    Dump it? or get it cleaned by your groups hacker.


    Quote Originally Posted by HMS Invincible View Post
    After the job is done, does the GM make the corp you robbed put out extra resources for revenge?
    This is possible, depends on the corp, depends on the run i guess. But never forget the golden rule of shadowrun... everything is for sale.... so make a deal.

    Quote Originally Posted by HMS Invincible View Post
    So then the question becomes, how much work do you need to do before the GM is satisfied? The best thing to do is to have a plan that has an intentional weakness but you already secretly planned for. This takes care of the GM's urge to "challenge" players.
    I don't think "challenging" players is an urge, it is text book GMing. Play a game where your characters are never challenged, see how fun it is after a few sessions.

    But once again, if your GM is an ass, then your gonna get screwed no matter what. In this case, take the money you would have spent on fake SIN and other such stuff and spend it on high powered weapons, ammo, body Armour and explosives, lots and lots of explosives.

    Quote Originally Posted by HMS Invincible View Post
    All that said, I'd hold off on taking jobs that require burning a high quality SIN, or even a low quality one if I could help it.
    Solid advice, and don't kill anybody unless your paid to. No point turning a b&e into a murder unless you have too.
    Last edited by Kaun; 2013-10-23 at 08:53 PM.
    Aside from "have fun", i think the key to GMing is putting your players into situations where they need to make a choice that has no perfect outcome available. They will hate you for it, but they will be back at the table session after session.

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    Default Re: Shadowrun Topic(Talk & Questions)

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhynn View Post
    Seriously. Most gear is reusable, and why (and how) are you burning SINs on every run?

    The 'runners aren't the elite corp teams. If the corps want to send in elites, they have them (SR 5E gives corp elites skills and skill groups at ratings 6-9!). They use 'runners when they want cheap, expendable, and extra-deniable.
    Runners go in when you need deniability. You can't send in your corp team to raid another corps secret lab. You also send in runners into the difficult, near suicide jobs. That your corp team won't do (or is a major waste of resources if they fail).

    I'm talking about a normal level campaign, where you start as a normal runner (400 BP in 4A). Where you can start with 250k easily. So during runs where your SIN gets compromised (1k per rating), your car gets shot up / tagged by police (10k minimum), your drones get destroyed (3k+ upwards) then getting paid chump change (on average less then 2k) is silly and frustrating. When you add ammo costs, medical bills and

    2k is basically just enough to make ends meet and is useful for a couple of first runs, where the runners get a reputation. And those runs should be something easy to pull off, something that shouldn't involve violence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaun View Post
    Ok if your GM is out to nail you, you will get nailed... not much you can do about it so moving on.
    I was in a group where one player really nailed not only himself, but half the team. It was a protection job gone wrong (we measure how badly a mission went south by the body count. This was a 6-body job). The insult to injury was that one player blogged about the mission on a public forum, and even uploaded videos he recorded of the fight.
    Half the team got fingered by that evidence.


    One trick I really learned to make use of as a GM is Contacts. Ensure the players invest in contacts. For me, contacts are a Win-Win. It's a win for the players because they have "go-to" people for info, equipment, safehouses, etc. It's a win for the GM because contacts can be used to give players info and rumors to steer the team down the right path to a good fun game.

    As a player, one of my favorite contacts to buy is the bribe-able cop. The cop is handy for getting the word on the street from the law's perspective. I slip him some nuyen under the table, he lets me know what Lone Star is up to. It saved the team a world of hurt once when we were hired to kidnap someone. We knew the target had a bodyguard. We didn't know the bodyguard was an ex-marine with some hidden combat reflex cyberware and a rap sheet that uses the word "gun violence" as a comma.
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    What we really have is expectations and assumptions. If we have the expectation that a run will be easy, we can just handwave a lot of the nitty gritty detail beyond "I have the evidence scrubbed from the scene by X, Y, and Z things/people". And then there are the assumptions, are the guards all Sherlock expoxies or are they Chief Wiggum from The Simpsons? This doesn't even take into account the payouts. If I took a high lifestyle, and all my other party members took low(or worse) then I'll be pushing for bigger scores just to pay the bills. Bigger payouts mean more dangerous missions, which means more effort needed.

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    As an example, my last run did a job that offered 30k per member for a month long mission. After all was said and done, we got 16k each, only after not paying a runner who had died(taking his share of the loot). For everyone else, they made a cool 11k-15k nuyen, but I only made 6k because I had to cough up 10k for a high lifestyle.
    Not really related, but I wasn't sure if I was being unreasonable to push for bigger runs because I had higher expenses.

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    Rules question, 4th ed. I don't have the Anniversary book but an answer that references it is fine.

    Are you allowed to break up skill groups during character creation? For example, I want to be athletic in general but be able to climb like a fiend. Can I pay 20 BP for Athletics Skill Group 2, then spend 12 more BP to make Climbing 5?

    What about breaking up a skill group with a specialization? Firearms 1, Pistols still just 1, but Revolvers 3, paying 10 BP for the group and 2 more BP for one specialization?

    I realize that if I did so, I could never again advance the group together. Not a problem. I just like saving some BP during character creation -- and I specialize all over the place, because to me it makes the character more interesting and realistic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HMS Invincible View Post
    As an example, my last run did a job that offered 30k per member for a month long mission. After all was said and done, we got 16k each, only after not paying a runner who had died(taking his share of the loot). For everyone else, they made a cool 11k-15k nuyen, but I only made 6k because I had to cough up 10k for a high lifestyle.

    Not really related, but I wasn't sure if I was being unreasonable to push for bigger runs because I had higher expenses.
    You are being unreasonable lol.. but only so far as the lifestyle is an unrelated expense. If you used it in the run then sure, but otherwise its just a choice your character makes on how to spend their cash.

    The problem with the life style thing is it can be hard, with out some solid GMing, to see the return from your investment. I mean realistically the guys in the low life styles would be getting sick more due to the bad climate control and old poorly maintained services. Up all night from disturbances going on in the streets, and suffering from crime a lot more. + a bunch of other stuff.

    But unless the GM takes it into account it all amounts to nothing really. That or try to make use of it more yourself, i guess.
    Aside from "have fun", i think the key to GMing is putting your players into situations where they need to make a choice that has no perfect outcome available. They will hate you for it, but they will be back at the table session after session.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaun View Post
    You are being unreasonable lol.. but only so far as the lifestyle is an unrelated expense. If you used it in the run then sure, but otherwise its just a choice your character makes on how to spend their cash.
    One GM I worked with replaced lifestyles with Safehouses-- Its the quality of the place you crash at before/after a mission (like a base of operations). A good safehouse is in a quiet neighborhood where the local gang is paid off to keep prying eyes away, you have good matrix signals and room to set up your equipment, and there's a garage to hide that stolen van you were using. A bad safehouse is in the slums, it doesn't protect you much from anything, and it's likely some ghouls will rip off the radio from that nice van of yours to hock while you were changing the oil.
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    Now we're getting into GM preferences and roleplaying. Do you like showing off and taking advantage of all the wealth you spent? Or does the handwaving allow you to shave off 8k-10k from your expenses with little downside other than eating a lot of McSoy burgers off the value menu.

    If the pay doesn't rise, (or inversely, the runs per month doesn't increase) I'll consider downgrading my lifestyle to save nuyen for a fancy piece of cyberware. We're all new to shadowrun, except me + 1 other guy, so the GM is trying to play by the book. Keyword trying.

    I'd feel bad pushing the GM to essentially punish the other players for lifestyle choices, especially when they're new to the game. How can I make use of the high life? It's not luxury, but it might as well be compared to everyone else.
    The only benefit I can think of with a high lifestyle is the lower banking fees. One thing we discussed was if receiving large anonymous payments would impact our fake SINs. If you have a lifestyle, does it matter if you get wired a bunch of money? How should the GM rule because there's nothing in the book about the banking system other than credstick vs swiss bank account.
    Last edited by HMS Invincible; 2013-10-25 at 10:36 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dimers View Post
    Rules question, 4th ed. I don't have the Anniversary book but an answer that references it is fine.

    Are you allowed to break up skill groups during character creation? For example, I want to be athletic in general but be able to climb like a fiend. Can I pay 20 BP for Athletics Skill Group 2, then spend 12 more BP to make Climbing 5?
    I believe that is against the RAW, but I would allow it, myself.

    For reference, page 84 of the Anniversary edition has "Skill groups may not be broken up into individual skills for further improvement and specializations may not be taken for skill group skills at character creation—although, as always, individual gamemasters are free to allow this option."

    The regular 4e makes no such statement.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HMS Invincible View Post
    One thing we discussed was if receiving large anonymous payments would impact our fake SINs. If you have a lifestyle, does it matter if you get wired a bunch of money?
    I've never considered that a big deal unless there's a reason to suspect the SIN itself. As long as the banking system believes the SIN is genuine, then hey, the bank would like to hold your money for you (and collect interest on it).
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    So I was trying to create a kind of Chunky Salsa build, and I thought it would be awesome if I could finagle a way to cast a spell that created a box to abuse that rule. I came across the Positive quality Spell knack, but I was very disappointed. You get the ability to cast a single spell, and in exchange, you can never get any augmentation, or increase your magic score from one. Sure it's only 5 BP but you get almost all the drawbacks of magic with almost none of the advantages. Is there something I'm missing or is it as bad as I think?
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