Vampire VI: Shepherds of the Night

[Deathslayer7]

Okay, couldn't approach DeathSlayer due to vamps, so voting on them. As for role testing... I'm going with Klanos.
Also, Yumori, what were you doing with DeathSlayer?

Have you considered, oh I don't know, that perhaps I don't have a night action?? [/sarcasm]

You are sealing your grave. I would look at Sabeki tonight/tomorrow.

[Lex-Kat]

Grrrr Deathslayer Arrg Atreyu!

[Penguinator]

The mystic eyed his cauldron. Bubbling, dark waters, and an ominous glow. Instinctively, he eyed his crystal ball. Inside, he saw a cloaked figure with a scythe, taking slow, meaningful steps towards him. He gasped, then averted his eyes. He had to take out the Deathslayer before it took his life.

He dashed a pinch of something into his cauldron, and it flared burning red. As he turned to the ball, he saw someone else... some sort of Masked Llama.

[Sabeki]

Looking at the PM I got from Helgraf, Yumori instigated something with DeathSlayer. What did you do, Yumori? You were quite obviously lying before.

[Deathslayer7]

So shouldnt we be going after Yumori then?

[Yumori Zatsuken]

Looking at the PM I got from Helgraf, Yumori instigated something with DeathSlayer. What did you do, Yumori? You were quite obviously lying before.

So you spied at me, well, no choice but to say I tried to scry deathslayer but Helgraf didn't get what I was saying.

I said, the man/woman who killed death.

[Sabeki]

No, I just noticed that someone interacted with DeathSlayer. Yumori interacted with DS and I was told that.

[Lady Serpentine]

Hmmm. Honestly? I'm with Deathslayer on this one.

Sabeki is being really suspicious here. Between changing their story (first it was 'Deathslayer was unapproachable due to vamps', now it's 'Well, okay, yeah, maybe not, but Yumori was doing something with Deathslayer!'), and the fact that the odds of hitting two vampires in a row with that power are really low, I'm just not seeing any reason to follow them.

My thoughts: We can be fairly sure Cuthalion was Dracula, from the narration. Let's assume that Sabeki is Nosferatu, and scried Cuthalion the first night; the lynch was a ploy for an eventual plan to take out a power role. Running with that, let's say the Spy is also a vampire, and, on the second night, claimed to Sabeki because it was extremely unlikely they were town - and if they were they were probably a power role anyway, and thus likely worth the risk if it meant killing them.

They then coordinate checks so that Sabeki has the proper information, and come up lucky - it turns out that Deathslayer is a power role, one worth killing off at this point (Sage, Blood Magus, Van Helsing... Lots of them that might be worth removing.) and so they activate the plan early, before a network can form around Deathslayer.

This would account for both the discrepancies in Sabeki's story and how two vampires were hit in a row (namely, they weren't), would it not?

[Yumori Zatsuken]

Hmmm. Honestly? I'm with Deathslayer on this one.

Sabeki is being really suspicious here. Between changing their story (first it was 'Deathslayer was unapproachable due to vamps', now it's 'Well, okay, yeah, maybe not, but Yumori was doing something with Deathslayer!'), and the fact that the odds of hitting two vampires in a row with that power are really low, I'm just not seeing any reason to follow them.

My thoughts: We can be fairly sure Cuthalion was Dracula, from the narration. Let's assume that Sabeki is Nosferatu, and scried Cuthalion the first night; the lynch was a ploy for an eventual plan to take out a power role. Running with that, let's say the Spy is also a vampire, and, on the second night, claimed to Sabeki because it was extremely unlikely they were town - and if they were they were probably a power role anyway, and thus likely worth the risk if it meant killing them.

They then coordinate checks so that Sabeki has the proper information, and come up lucky - it turns out that Deathslayer is a power role, one worth killing off at this point (Sage, Blood Magus, Van Helsing... Lots of them that might be worth removing.) and so they activate the plan early, before a network can form around Deathslayer.

This would account for both the discrepancies in Sabeki's story and how two vampires were hit in a row (namely, they weren't), would it not?

What does the Sage do?

[Lady Serpentine]

What does the Sage do?

'Tis the Mortal seer. So that'd be you, I assume; presumably, that puts it off the list, but it was one of the potential roles worth targeting so early.

[Sabeki]

Vampire VI - Night 2 Action

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You spent the night tailing Deathslayer7, backing off only when you spotted the shadowy figures of hunting vampires. During this period, Deathslayer7 was approached by Yumori123.

Copy paste. This was what I got.
Though you seem a bit suspicious to me now. Also, why would I kill Dracula? Why not use a smaller fish to gain trust? Than I can weevil in more effectively. Plus we didn't get Cuths role.

[Lady Serpentine]

"You have not seen the last of Vlad Drakul.".

So, uh, yeah. He was Dracula. As for why kill Dracula, well... He comes back. That's why.

Also, that, uh... Proves exactly nothing. Considering my theory involves the Spy being your partner, of course you'd have access to that.

[Sabeki]

Even going by your theory, in which I got it from the Spy, it proves that Deathslayer still went with the Vamps. Why would I kill a fellow vampire?

[Lady Serpentine]

Actually, even assuming that part of it is real, all it proves is that one of the vampires tossed a vote on Deathslayer.

[Sabeki]

It proves that DS was involved in the NK. Not that a vampire voted for them. Your theory needs some serious Occams Razor, it's far too complex. It assumes that I was approached because someone knew I was a Vamp, who just so happened to be a spy, and that I managed to scry Cuth and find out he's Vlad, and then we hatched a plan together for me to gain the trust of the people. It also requires a person to vote for DS.
Mine is a theory that since DS was involved in the NK, then they are probably a Vamp, considering the fact that the last person who was involved like that was Dracula.
Based on these two arguments, which is more likely?

[Lady Serpentine]

A:

All that bit in the Spy means is that the identity of the person who interacted via vote wouldn't be revealed, by my reading. That is, potentially, the only 'involvement' needed. Nothing says that they need to be either the final target or a voter. (Also, see below.)

B:

No, it requires that you scry Cuthalion. Then you two hatch a plan to get you trusted.

The real spy, once you claim, contacts you and you do a role exchange. This is actually fairly likely because, really, if you're fakeclaiming and you aren't a wolf, you're most likely another power role, and thus a valuable target.

As for your assertion that someone has to have voted for DS for that to work... Nope, false, you could easily be lying.

[Aventine]

Between changing their story...

Except unless I am missing something he didn't change his story, he just said it in possibly the most confusing way possible at first.

Let's assume that Sabeki is Nosferatu...

That seems like a pretty huge assumption, where is it coming from?

...let's say the Spy is also a vampire, and, on the second night, claimed to Sabeki because it was extremely unlikely they were town...

Why was it extremely unlikely that he was town at that point? He gave us a vampire to lynch and had yet to do anything that you are citing as suspicious.

This would account for...how two vampires were hit in a row (namely, they weren't), would it not?

Or we just got lucky. It's unlikely but not impossible. So yes, it is entirely possible that he is a vamp deceiving us, but your evidence for that is basically just that he changed his story, when he actually didn't.

Actually, even assuming that part of it is real, all it proves is that one of the vampires tossed a vote on Deathslayer.

The Spy rules say you can't see a vampire night kill, not that you can't see someone who gets a vote. So if that part is real than Death was either a vampire or got night killed. And he isn't dead

[Sabeki]

What do you mean, 'nope, false, you could easily be lying'? That's not a very good explanation.
And the spy contacting me is likely? Maybe if he thought I was another spy, but I highly doubt he would do so if he wasn't a mortal. As a mortal I'm the guy who killed Dracula. Unless I told him I was a vamp before, which is highly unlikely, seeing how it's day 2 and I've only scried Cuth so far and nobody has acted suspicious, he wouldn't PM me if he was a vampire. And if he's a mortal who did this, than why would he agree to role switch with a vamp, unless I tricked him? This guy would probably tail me first to see what I was doing, unless they decide to go in blind! And if he tailed me, he would see me in NK, and since I made it work the first time, he could call me out on that, I'm lynched, and BAM it's another Power Role out of the game for the vamps!
The plot is too massive to work! It's convoluted and requires so much to go right that I might as well just flip a coin and use that to point at somebody!

[Lady Serpentine]

There is no need for DS to be involved at all, is what I'm saying.

Aventine:

The definition of the night kill is the disputed bit here.

Annnnyhow, given you're already pulling out the hyperbole, I'm out of this particular discussion. Though I will note you seem incredibly defensive, which is generally a wolf trait.

[Sabeki]

I... wait, what?
You're using amphiboly (large ambiguity) here, and we're not using-- well, ok, I kind of am using hyperbole but it's not very big hyperbole, and Aventine hasn't used any at all. I'd say that the biggest hyperbolerer (is that a word?) here would be you, saying how Aventine is being super defensive. I am being defensive because you accused me of being a vamp, I'm supposed to be defensive here in this case.
And now you're backing out of an argument without explaining anything, giving us any answers, or even giving a valid reason to back out. That seems way more wolfish to me than Aventine pointing out flaws in your logic.

[Yumori Zatsuken]

It's actually true, being too defensive is kinda wolfish.
Either that Sabeki is a Fool Spy, or simply a true spy, I didn't do anything to DS whatsoever, I'm a Towncrier, well, has a power to scry with crapshoot accuracy. I just tried to scry Death, that's all, if I get it right, I'll probably say it, but Helgraf didn't get my sentence, but still, no point of two of you getting killed.

[Lady Serpentine]

Sorry, last bit was at you. Only the line above was at Aventine.

Basically: You two interpret the NK to be the one that goes through. I'm going with it being that you don't learn who any vampires who vote for the person you tail to die are.

[Aventine]

Sabeki: the hyperbole is my "pretty huge." My point was that it didn't seem to me to be much more likely that you are Nosferatu than that you got lucky and followed two vamps in a row. So if one is rejected for being too unlikely the other should be as well.

The definition of the night kill is the disputed bit here.

Yeah, I just find it more likely that the definition of "vampire kill" in the spy rules is the vampire kill, rather than a vote for the vampire kill.

Anyway one of your two original reasons for suspicion was Sabeki changing his story. When I pointed out that he actually didn't do that, rather than acknowledge an honest mistake you immediately backed out of the discussion on a flimsy excuse.

[Count Dingdong]

Alright. I've not read too deeply into the discussion so far (namely C'nor/Aventine/Sabeki's), but here's my confusion about today. Tell me if it doesn't make sense?

Description of the Spy role:

Spy

Spoiler

Show

You are a very observant person, who takes especial effort to mind the comings and goings of people.
Ability: Shadowing – Each night phase, choose one player or one area (You will be informed if and when areas become an option for observing). You will notice any players interacting with that player or leaving or entering that area except for the vampire kill – vampires are far too dangerous for even you to try and trail. You will not observe the specific actions performed, just notice there were interactions.
Effect: Mr. Nobody – You scry as a Neutral despite your actual affiliation (Vampire or Mortal).
Targeting: Scries as Neutral. Strong Scries as affiliation/Spy.

The first thing I see in the day:

Okay, couldn't approach DeathSlayer due to vamps, so voting on them. As for role testing... I'm going with Klanos.
Also, Yumori, what were you doing with DeathSlayer?

Clarification of the last line in the above quote:

Looking at the PM I got from Helgraf, Yumori instigated something with DeathSlayer.

Now, if I'm understanding the Spy role correctly, either the target cannot be trailed because they're part of the vamp kill, or you get information on who used a power on the target. Thus, if they cannot be trailed, they must be a vampire, which was the basis for yesterday's lynch. Conversely, if they can be trailed, they did not take part in the vamp kill, which isn't a complete clear but a good start. If my understanding of "trailing" is correct, the fact that you got information back on someone interacting with Deathslayer means that he did not take part in the vamp kill.

Even if my understanding of the Spy role is wrong, I'm still confused. Sure, it could be that all interactions with the target, sans the vamp kill, are revealed. In that case, what separates a vampire from a role-less mortal? One's action can't be trailed, and the other has no action to trail. Thus, you wouldn't learn on whom the target used a power in either case. Similarly, a vamp with a power to use might be trailed for that power if not for the night kill. So... would your "scry" have any weight behind it? You could fail to follow a vampire OR a mortal, AND you could succeed in following either.

Putting specifics of the power aside, isn't it also strange how quickly the wave of votes sheeping after you was? There was no potential counterwagon. There was no argument about how your reasoning might be flawed, even though I've been curious about it since yesterday but figured it worth that test. Vamps and Mortals alike seem to be following you with no protest. Might that be because the target is a Mortal, and his lynch will then bring easy suspicion onto you?

Even if we look at your PM copy-paste, which, for sake of argument, let's say is both valid and allowed by the rules. It does state that "You spent the night tailing Deathslayer7." Doesn't this imply that you did in fact successfully tail him?

tl;dr This whole day has been ringing strange for me, and I'm pretty sure it all has to do with DS7 being Mortal and Sabeki being confused. Of course, this is assuming that I'm not confused either... Thoughts?

[Sabeki]

Yumori: I believe that he got your thing, hence why he told me you interected with DS, however he did not give you your PM yet. Same thing happened to me, it's a bit annoying, you just have to give him a poke.

count: I'm confused on that as well. I'm thinking that's a role thing for Helgraf.

Helgraf: You really, really, REALLY need to clarify on the Spy thing.


So far: I am going on the logic that Helgraf does not tell you who the vamp votes for OR if the person was merely investigated, and tells you everything that happened that night.

[Aventine]

My understanding of the spy was that regardless of whether the target is a vampire or not you are told of all interactions except any vampire kills. So Sabeki (assuming he is telling the truth) was able to see the interaction between Deathslayer and yumori THEN was separately unable to see the vampire kill and was told so.

[Lady Serpentine]

Anyway one of your two original reasons for suspicion was Sabeki changing his story. When I pointed out that he actually didn't do that, rather than acknowledge an honest mistake you immediately backed out of the discussion on a flimsy excuse.

Eh. I'm in a pissy mood right now, between what may or may not be a broken wrist and having messed up my back and my neck moving a couch earlier today. I was getting angry about the hyperbole from Sabeki, and the attempt to shut down the discussion by means of it, as well as a long, convoluted, 'no he'd have done this instead, if he were a wolf'*. So I chose to step out to not do anything regrettable.

(Also, still saying that the story changed - 'unapproachable' to 'oh no Yumori did a thing'. On the other hand, the whole thing is a mess due to not knowing what the rules are. >.>)

*Which are actually good signs of wolfness too, based on my past experience - it's a fairly common tactic to divert attention. On the other hand, it's certainly not 100%, either. Used that as a villager in the past, after all.

[Sabeki]

Helgraf, we need you! Did you mess up in my PM? Or was it a rule fudge? TELLL USSSS!!!!
Sorry about your wrist C'nor. That was weird for me to, probably my fault for not following up on it.

[Murska]

C'nor has a theory that seems too complex to be likely at first, but you all seem to be missing some things that make some variation of that theme possible or even likely.

It's possible for either a Vampire or a Mortal to be a Spy. If a Vampire is a Spy, the obvious thing to do would be to quickly become a town leader, because no-one can prove whether the Spy is on Town or Scum side. (Spy special ability, scries as neutral.)

So, it's possible that Sabeki would be a Vamp/Spy that got into contact with a Vampire the first night and sacrificed him in order to gain our trust.

ALSO it's possible that Dracula recruited Sabeki after the events of day two.


However, I think we should follow him for one more day, unless Deathslayer claims an important PR. Because it's still possible and even likely that Sabeki is what he says he is. If DS doesn't turn out to be a Vampire, then Sabeki's used up what trust I had in him.

Really, though, in the hopes of getting at least some voting information and discussion out of this day, I think Count Dingdong's post sounded the most suspicious of these. /If/ Sabeki is Town, then the Scum might try to discredit him. C'nor honestly just sounds frustrated and, well, straightforward, but Dingdong's post felt to me more like someone trying to unobstrusively 'fan the flames' so to speak.


EDIT: Wait, it's not. It voids the kill, of course.

[Sabeki]

Both sides have a deep scrier that will penetrate my Mortality. Nosferatu and... what was the other one?