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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    shaka gl's Avatar

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    Default Adding DEX Mod to Damage Rolls

    So, i think i heard something about a Feat that lets you do that, somewhere round here. Or maybe a Class Feature. Is it real? Where is it?.

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    Troll in the Playground
     
    HalflingRogueGuy

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    Default Re: Adding DEX Mod to Damage Rolls

    There's an elf only PrC, Champion of... whatever the name of that god is whose initials are "CL". Dex to damage at I believe 2nd level, though it has a lot of feat requirements.

    JaronK

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Jack Mann's Avatar

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    Default Re: Adding DEX Mod to Damage Rolls

    It's in Tome of Battle. It requires the use of a stance from the shadow hand school, and you have to use weapons associated with that school.
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    Default Re: Adding DEX Mod to Damage Rolls

    Champion of Corellon Larethian, which has some stringent requirements, lets you add Dex to damage with certain elfy weapons, but it's precision damage (i.e. doesn't work on anything sneak attack doesn't work on).

    The newer way is the Shadow Blade feat from Tome of Battle. It grants DEX to damage while in a Shadow Hand stance and wielding a Shadow Hand discipline favored weapon; getting it without taking Swordsage levels requires Martial Study and Martial Stance feats, so that's a three-feat investment. Dipping Swordsage is probably a better idea.

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Adding DEX Mod to Damage Rolls

    The shadow sun schools weapons are very "ninja" like. Things such as daggers, sai, nunchunks, and even the spiked chain.

    This isn't all of them of course, there is one or two more.

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    Default Re: Adding DEX Mod to Damage Rolls

    It wouldn't be much trouble to make a feat like this though

    Graceful Strike[General]
    You use skill rather then brawn to damage your enemies
    Prerequisites: Weapon Finesse, Base Attack Bonus +1
    Benefit: Whenever you attack with a weapon using the Weapon Finesse feat you may use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on damage rolls. When you do this with a Two-Handed Weapon (such as the spiked chain) you only add 1 times your Dexterity modifier to damage(as opposed to 1.5 times). If you carry a shield it's armor check penealty applies to damage rolls.
    Special: A fighter may select Graceful Strike as one of their fighter bonus feats.

    Natural Weapons are always considered light weapons
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    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: Adding DEX Mod to Damage Rolls

    Its easy to make anything that does anything. The question is not "can you make it?" but "will it be balanced?" A two feat dip to completely ignore strength? Doesn't seem balanced to me...

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    Default Re: Adding DEX Mod to Damage Rolls

    Strength still has it's uses, it still controls carrying and capacity, and in order to get high damage bonuses with two handed weapons you still rely on strength.

    Also consider that a rogue, one of the most likely canidates for the feat, can't get the feat until at least level 6, which by then the extra damage is small next to their sneak attack damage. Also keep in mind that rogues only get 7 feats between 1 and 20, and taking an extra feat for a few extra damage probally isn't even worth it.
    "Sometimes, were heroes. Sometimes, we shoot other people right in the face for money."

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    Default Re: Adding DEX Mod to Damage Rolls

    Quote Originally Posted by Avicenex View Post
    Its easy to make anything that does anything. The question is not "can you make it?" but "will it be balanced?" A two feat dip to completely ignore strength? Doesn't seem balanced to me...
    But remember, there's carrying capacity, grappling tripping and all that other good stuff that Strength uses. Plus Strength Based skills like Swimming and Climbing!
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    Default Re: Adding DEX Mod to Damage Rolls

    Quote Originally Posted by Avicenex View Post
    Its easy to make anything that does anything. The question is not "can you make it?" but "will it be balanced?" A two feat dip to completely ignore strength? Doesn't seem balanced to me...
    Strength will still be a better option--1.5x STR to damage with a two-handed weapon, 2:1 power attack...

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    Viscount Einstrauss's Avatar

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    Default Re: Adding DEX Mod to Damage Rolls

    Unless you're two-weapon fighting, in which case there's no longer any reason to have strength... ever. If encumberance is an issue, get a mount or a bag of holding :P
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    Default Re: Adding DEX Mod to Damage Rolls

    Yes, unless you have two-weapon fighting... in which case you've spent three to five feats just to be on par with the strength guy.

    Gee.
    That's horrible. Ban it, ban it now.

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    Viscount Einstrauss's Avatar

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    Default Re: Adding DEX Mod to Damage Rolls

    Hey, that could have really helped my fighter/rogue gestalt game. Imagine a full BAB sneak attacking TWF with Combat Reflexes and those two feats on any AoO. I really would have loved causing mass damage rules to everyone I encounter as soon as I stop hiding.
    Do not meddle in the affairs of adventurers, for you are expendable and full of EXP.


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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Adding DEX Mod to Damage Rolls

    I don't know about the Tome of Battle ability, but Champion of Corralon has the restriction that the damage is precision, and lost against creatures immune to crit damage.

    So your feat should probably have this restriction as well.

    Stephen

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Adding DEX Mod to Damage Rolls

    The TOB feat switches your Dex damage to your Str if your Dex is higher. (Similar to weapon finesse with hit but its damage)

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    Default Re: Adding DEX Mod to Damage Rolls

    Incorrect. If you have a strength bonus and a dexterity bonus, you add both to your damage, where weapon finesse makes it a complete substitution. Of course, this isn't a benefit if you have a strength penalty, since you'd have to apply that to your damage (but not your attack, assuming you had both feats).
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  17. - Top - End - #17
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Adding DEX Mod to Damage Rolls

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Mann View Post
    Incorrect. If you have a strength bonus and a dexterity bonus, you add both to your damage, where weapon finesse makes it a complete substitution. Of course, this isn't a benefit if you have a strength penalty, since you'd have to apply that to your damage (but not your attack, assuming you had both feats).
    Actually you are correct and wrong at the same time, due to bad writting on page 30 and 32 of TOB. On page 32 it doesn't say anything about "replacing" Str it says you can add it as a bonus to damage. On page 30 it says specifically you use your Dex modifer instead of your Str modifer on damage rolls. Since you normally add your Str modifer to damage rolls (as a bonus), page 30 says you now use your Dex modifer.

    Bad Editing on WOTC part, makes it confusing, and ultimately it is up to your DM

  18. - Top - End - #18

    Default Re: Adding DEX Mod to Damage Rolls

    THe rule is that Text Trumps Table. I mean, the Table even says "Shadow Sun", which doesn't exist.

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Adding DEX Mod to Damage Rolls

    Quote Originally Posted by Bears With Lasers View Post
    THe rule is that Text Trumps Table. I mean, the Table even says "Shadow Sun", which doesn't exist.
    On the optimization boards who put RAW on the pedastal maybe, texts trumpts table. In any real game DMs rule balance and there guess of RAI when the RAW material has multiple interperations.

    Or do you believe a Warmage with 10 lvl of Rainbow Servant doesn't loose a caster level and gets the ability to cast all cleric spells spontaneously?

  20. - Top - End - #20

    Default Re: Adding DEX Mod to Damage Rolls

    "Add dex to damage" vs. "replace" doesn't make enough of a difference to affect balance.

    The warmage thing doesn't, happen, because the latest edition text has the missing caster levels, foreign-language or not.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Jack Mann's Avatar

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    Default Re: Adding DEX Mod to Damage Rolls

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramza00 View Post
    On the optimization boards who put RAW on the pedastal maybe, texts trumpts table. In any real game DMs rule balance and there guess of RAI when the RAW material has multiple interperations.
    Then it's a house rule. We are discussing the rules as WotC has presented them. Wizards has said that text trumps table. There is no ambiguity there. If the text says something and the table says something different, then, by the rules, the text is correct, not the table. Certainly you can rule differently in your own game, but that has no bearing on what the rules actually are.
    I am a poor man, some say Im half crazy,
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    Lady I pledge you my sword and my honor,
    my heart and my pride and my life
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  22. - Top - End - #22
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    DruidGirl

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    Default Re: Adding DEX Mod to Damage Rolls

    If you can add your Dex to damage instead of Str. , then Dex would be more important than strength ever was or will be (assuming you also have weapon finese). Dex would then be the factor for armor class, initiative, reflex saves, att. rolls, and dmg. rolls (not to mention dex based skills like tumble, balance, and escape artist). This coupled with the swordsage's extra damage from maneuvers is what makes the shadow hand swordsage > your typical 2h melee brute.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Jack Mann's Avatar

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    Default Re: Adding DEX Mod to Damage Rolls

    No. It's the fact that the swordsage can do things other than damage that makes him superior to the two-handed melee brute.
    I am a poor man, some say Im half crazy,
    son of the sword and the knife
    Lady I pledge you my sword and my honor,
    my heart and my pride and my life
    --Bella Doa, by Joe Bethancourt
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    Alas, poor Draknir. By Mephibosheth

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    Default Re: Adding DEX Mod to Damage Rolls

    The melee brute can hit things better and harder. 1.5x STR to damage puts his ability to Power Attack at a 2:1 ratio puts him way ahead damage-wise.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    DruidGirl

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    Default Re: Adding DEX Mod to Damage Rolls

    Quote Originally Posted by Bears With Lasers View Post
    The melee brute can hit things better and harder. 1.5x STR to damage puts his ability to Power Attack at a 2:1 ratio puts him way ahead damage-wise.
    I dunno... I've always found it a bit difficult to hit things once you've dumped all your BAB into power attack. And even when the canned meat 2hander does hit, the swordsage's extra damage dice make up for the power attack. And at the same time, he has a potentially higher AC.

    Regardless, the swordsage makes warrior types more playable at high end due to the fact that, as Jackman said, he is more than a mere sword swinger.

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    Matthew's Avatar

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    Default Re: Adding DEX Mod to Damage Rolls

    Adding Dexterity Bonus to Melee Damage? What I would like to see is using Strength Bonus for Ranged AB...
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    Default Re: Adding DEX Mod to Damage Rolls

    Power Throw; it already exists.

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    Matthew's Avatar

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    Default Re: Adding DEX Mod to Damage Rolls

    That doesn't work with Bows, though.
    Last edited by Matthew; 2007-01-04 at 05:33 AM.
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    Default Re: Adding DEX Mod to Damage Rolls

    There is a Feat that add's Dex to Damage: down side is that you have to be a Nyss & using a Nyss claymore. Its called Winter's Edge and it's in No Quarter 2 (Bi Monthly Mag from Privateteer Press)
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    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: Adding DEX Mod to Damage Rolls

    Well. the talent as it is presented above is certainly a bit unbalanced. But now, we add other prerequisits: Int 13+ (obvious, isn't it?), and "combat expertise", representing the characters ability to "see" what an oponent might do.
    And the effect should only work where sneak attacks do.

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