The most unbalanced monsters for each CR up to 20 (or so)?

[Isamu Dyson]

CR 8 should consider replacing the Drowned with the Vile Wight. The Vile Wight does 2 negative levels per attack and has at least four natural attacks, meaning a lucky ambush and a good initiative roll can drain one person from full to dead in a round.

Also, can do an 8d8 line of negative energy to eliminate the spellcaster before he can do much good.

Which supplement contains the Vile Wight?

[hamishspence]

That would be BoVD.

[Silva Stormrage]

Was there any reason the greater storm elemental and its potential 36d6+12d4 damage in a single round isn't placed in the CR 10 spot?

[Isamu Dyson]

Was there any reason the greater storm elemental and its potential 36d6+12d4 damage in a single round isn't placed in the CR 10 spot?

I simply haven't gotten around to this yet .

[Angelalex242]

Still no love for the Solar? Seriously now, guys...

[Zanos]

Still no love for the Solar? Seriously now, guys...

Everything breaks after level 20. I see a solar at CR 23, and all I see is that it doesn't have Epic Spellcasting.

[Silva Stormrage]

I simply haven't gotten around to this yet .

Ah fair enough, you added the bleakborn to it which was in the same post so I was just wondering if it didn't quite count as unbalanced enough

[Kelb_Panthera]

The ocean strider has an ECL of 35 plus character levels. It's a CR 18 which seems ok to me given its HD, defences and spell like abilities.

ECL stands for effective character level. It's how they tried to explain the level of a creature for PC use before they came up with level adjustment. ECL 35 on 18 hd means +17 LA. A lot of early creatures have unfairly inflated LA.

Everything breaks after level 20. I see a solar at CR 23, and I'll I see is that it doesn't have Epic Spellcasting.

I would put the cut-off at 24 for that. Party level plus 4 is a boss fight and level 20 PC's will get demolished by epic magic.

Not that I ever include epic anything in my own games, I put a hard cut-off at level 17 then incorporate the e6 feat thing. Though I also tend to bring campaigns to a close not long after hitting 17 anyway.

[Angelalex242]

Great Wyrm Red Dragon doesn't have epic spellcasting either, and it's CR 26.

Can a Solar take a Great Wyrm Red?

Yes. Definitively yes. It's got better spells.

Ya know what else is CR 26? An Infernal.

And Infernals>>>>>>Great Wyrm Red Dragon

Infernals do have an epic spell by the way, though it's only Hellball. And I still think a Solar could take an Infernal.

[Lanaya]

Not that I ever include epic anything in my own games, I put a hard cut-off at level 17 then incorporate the e6 feat thing. Though I also tend to bring campaigns to a close not long after hitting 17 anyway.

Do you boost sorcerer spell progression to compensate, or are they stuck with level 8 spells at maximum?

[Kelb_Panthera]

Do you boost sorcerer spell progression to compensate, or are they stuck with level 8 spells at maximum?

I don't change it. The wizards might get to cast between 4 and a dozen 9th level spells before the campaign wraps and there are so many builds that lose at least one level of casting that even that is rare. The balance issue also doesn't really matter unless you have a wizard and a sorcerer in the same party, also a rarity.

[Isamu Dyson]

C'mon folks: we still have a ways to go .

[Heliomance]

Stormwrack.

Guide to the annoying, semi-common alternate names along this line:

It's Cold Outside=Frostburn
It's Hot Outside=Sandstorm
It's Wet Outside=Stormwrack

And occasionally:
It's Croweded Outside=Cityscape
It's Not Outside=Dungeonscape

I've also heard:

It's Not Outside = Cityscape
It's Dark Down Here/Damn, Is It Dark Down Here = Dungeonscape

[Blackhawk748]

Not sure if they have been mentioned, but the Basilisk Cr5 and the Cockatrice Cr3. The save DCs may be low, but there is still an almost 25% chance of a character dying (not actual death but it may as well be) the Cockatrice isnt as bad as it can only do it to one person at a time, but even so it seems a bit unreasonable. The Basilisk is even worse as it can make the whole party do the save every freakin round. friggin gaze attacks

[GoatBoy]

Stormwrack.
It's Cold Outside=Frostburn
It's Hot Outside=Sandstorm
It's Wet Outside=Stormwrack

And occasionally:
It's Croweded Outside=Cityscape
It's Not Outside=Dungeonscape

You're a Wizard, Harry - Complete Arcane
You're a Fighter, Harry - Complete Warrior
You're a Rogue, Harry - Complete Adventurer
You're a Cleric, Harry - Complete Divine
You're Hairy, Harry - Savage Species

[Rubik]

Do the titanic template and warbeast template together count? Combining the two means you can afford an epic pet at an absurdly low level, considering how cheap titanic warbeasts are.

[Heliomance]

You're a Wizard, Harry - Complete Arcane
You're a Fighter, Harry - Complete Warrior
You're a Rogue, Harry - Complete Adventurer Complete Scoundrel
You're a Cleric, Harry - Complete Divine
You're Hairy, Harry - Savage Species

Fixed that for you

[sideswipe]

am I the only one who thinks hydra's are horrible. my group is relatively low OP. i'm the most optimised. and we always seem to have problems with hydra's, never defeated one.

[Blackhawk748]

am I the only one who thinks hydra's are horrible. my group is relatively low OP. i'm the most optimised. and we always seem to have problems with hydra's, never defeated one.

Your not alone, Hydras are nuts, and they kinda break the action economy, in a lite fashion though. The Cryo and pyro versions are freakin nuts though.

[sideswipe]

Your not alone, Hydras are nuts, and they kinda break the action economy, in a lite fashion though. The Cryo and pyro versions are freakin nuts though.

yay i'm not crazy.

[Rubik]

yay i'm not crazy.

No, you are. You just also happen to be right.

[sideswipe]

No, you are. You just also happen to be right.

"I'm not crazy, your crazy, especially you Napa".
Major brownie points if you get the reference.


5/10 headed terror from MM 3 is pretty horrifying.
I shriek, the party falls paralysed.
I then touch you 5/10 times, make that many fortitude saves, fail 1 and you will die. nothing stopping it.

also its attacks cause a fortitude save that if you fail the damage cannot be healed by mundane or magical means. its a poison, and you need to remove the poison before you can heal.

CR 10 or 13 depending on heads.

[Rubik]

How about the MM's roper? 6 ranged touch attacks, make a Fort save or take 2d8 Str damage, which alone is enough to put almost anyone under, if it rolls high, crits, hits more than once, or hits someone with already low Str.

[Urpriest]

If we can include a couple templated creatures on the list, an Ogre Were-Battletitan is CR 9 and has 40 HD.

Also, in line of the various alternate book names, That's So Ravenloft for Expedition to Castle Ravenloft.

[sideswipe]

Oh... and I just remembered the bane of any melee fighter ever under level 5...
Rust monster. CR 3.
It touches you and your everything disintegrates if it fails a fortitude save.
You attack it with anything metallic and it disintegrates instantly.

[Blackhawk748]

Which is why i always had a club, its free and is a crappy back up.

[Rubik]

Which is why i always had a club, its free and is a crappy back up.

The one time I went against rust monsters (as a thri-kreen psychic warrior), I'd just been blinded, and the party had left me behind because of it, so I got to take on quite a few (around a dozen, IIRC) all by myself. Lucky me, I already had a bow with the seeking property, so all I had to do was to fire into as many squares as I could, and trust the seeking property to do the rest. I managed to kill them all within two turns, but sadly, I lost my mithral chain shirt. It only had a +1 on it, but that's still more money than I wanted to lose.

[Isamu Dyson]

How do you mitigate the hydra's relatively slow land speed when sending it against PCs?

How about the MM's roper? 6 ranged touch attacks, make a Fort save or take 2d8 Str damage, which alone is enough to put almost anyone under, if it rolls high, crits, hits more than once, or hits someone with already low Str.

By Level 12, don't most PCs have methods for sensing this beastie before it can enact a scene out of a bad Japanese anime?

[Blackhawk748]

Have them be in a cave and it moves in from of the entrance, also it has sick reach

[sideswipe]

Have them be in a cave and it moves in from of the entrance, also it has sick reach

yeah then they have the choice of fight the hydra... or get crushed by the cave whales....