Doctor Who Thread V: "Brave heart, Thread." [SPOILERS]

[turkishproverb]

Aw...

You're not so bad, yourself.

Thanks...

[Blueiji]

I watched my first ever episode of Doctor Who today. I saw it in theaters, with a friend who really wanted to go with someone (he's an avid fan of Doctor Who though, seen tons of episodes).

I was a tad confused, but still enjoyed it quite a bit, and I've become interested in seeing more for the show.

So consider me a new convert.

[DJ Yung Crunk]

Thanks...

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For what it's worth I choose to believe Peter, Colin and Sylvester were behind the shrouds of some of those Daleks in Day of the Doctor despite the ending.

Also, Nick Briggs and co. reading Dalek Operators Gazette

So consider me a new convert.

Welcome to the fold. You're in it for life, buddy, so buckle up. I like to consider myself a Classic and EU authority. Some of the other folks in the thread will help you with the reboot if you've got any question.

[turkishproverb]

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For what it's worth I choose to believe Peter, Colin and Sylvester were behind the shrouds of some of those Daleks in Day of the Doctor despite the ending.

Also, Nick Briggs and co. reading Dalek Operators Gazette

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I like to believe that as well. Is it sad I now want that magazine?

I watched my first ever episode of Doctor Who today. I saw it in theaters, with a friend who really wanted to go with someone (he's an avid fan of Doctor Who though, seen tons of episodes).

I was a tad confused, but still enjoyed it quite a bit, and I've become interested in seeing more for the show.

So consider me a new convert.

Welcome, New Psionic Goblin Friend!

[DJ Yung Crunk]

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I like to believe that as well. Is it sad I now want that magazine?

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I would subscribe. I can only imagine the articles.

"What Your Plunger Says About You"

[turkishproverb]

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I would subscribe. I can only imagine the articles.

"What Your Plunger Says About You"

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"How to Properly Time Your Scream-Lights"

[DJ Yung Crunk]

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"How to Properly Time Your Scream-Lights"

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"Chafing: What You Can Do To Prevent It"

[Blueiji]

Welcome, New Psionic Goblin Friend!

Welcome to the fold. You're in it for life, buddy, so buckle up. I like to consider myself a Classic and EU authority. Some of the other folks in the thread will help you with the reboot if you've got any question.

Well I'm glad to be here, you all seem very welcoming.

As for the questions, I don't really have any at the moment. I practically interrogated my friend after the film so I'm fairly clear on all the things I didn't get.

Also, I feel slightly ashamed to say it, but before this day I thought the show was called Doctor Whom.

[DJ Yung Crunk]

Also, I feel slightly ashamed to say it, but before this day I thought the show was called Doctor Whom.

No, shame will come later, my friend. But I'm getting dangerously close to a rant.

[turkishproverb]

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"Chafing: What You Can Do To Prevent It"

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"Why Installing Flamethrowers is a Bad Idea"

Well I'm glad to be here, you all seem very welcoming.

We have our moments.

As for the questions, I don't really have any at the moment. I practically interrogated my friend after the film so I'm fairly clear on all the things I didn't get.

Also, I feel slightly ashamed to say it, but before this day I thought the show was called Doctor Whom.

Don't feel bad. That's actually an old joke in the fandom.

[DJ Yung Crunk]

Well I'm glad to be here, you all seem very welcoming.

Just don't go to tumblr.

Anyway, if you're looking to get into the Classic series at some point (and you really should, in this poster's opinion it is vastly superior) you would be happy to know that you don't necessarily have to go in any order. I didn't and I picked up everything just fine. Going in order for each Doctor is strongly recommended, however. They have character arcs, see.

A great place to start, I'd say, is with the Fifth Doctor. Not so old and dated that you'll get culture shock (okay, you'll get a bit of culture shock) and with the added bonus that Davison's first season is just awesome. It features Castrovalva and Kinda which are my two personal favorite episodes.

Also, you know about the missing episodes, right?

EDIT: Though, on reflection, Castrovalva does carry on immediately from the previous episode. Hmm... Maybe start with Tom Baker's last season. It stands on its own (they changed producers at that point) and is, generally, pretty damn good. From there you can decide if you want to go back to the start of T. Baker's run or continue on with Davison. Season 18 is nicely self contained so, really, I think it's the perfect place to start.

[Finn Solomon]

I have a question, during the epic climax when

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you see all the thirteen doctors working together to vanish Gallifrey, and you hear them calling out to each other, did they get back the original actors to record a few lines? I thought I heard Eight, and definitely Seven talking about the coordinates. It'd be nice to know they're still part of the Anniversary in some way.

[dps]

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I like this version of events a lot more than the one where the only possible option was for the Doctor to destroy Gallifrey completely. This version is a lot more hopeful and more in line with the show's theme (in my opinion), and I like that.

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Amen. Oh, yes, so very much. The whole destruction of Gallifrey thing has been the main negative of the revived show (at least conceptually) IMO, and now it's fixed.

[KillianHawkeye]

Just watched the anniversary special. It was glorious. Simply glorious! Tennant + Smith FTW! Nice tease on the next Doctor. Nice cameo by Tom Baker. I'm glad it wasn't really Rose.

Also, the Night of the Doctor mini-sode with the 8th Doctor was pretty cool.

[theNater]

Is it weird to anyone else that everything EXCEPT the anniversary special they did seemed like a good celebration (Night, FISH Doctor, Time and Space) while the "special" felt like an over-bloated episode of a normal season of the show?

The special did seem like an overlarge episode, but I think it was a good celebration because it really threw all the key elements of Doctor Who into a single 75 minute episode. I want to list some of the key elements I noticed; they're in spoiler tags because some of them may hint at how the plot goes.

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It had a mysterious oracle, bizarre aliens, time travel(including time travel trickery), a hero with many personalities and faces but one soul, historical figures behaving badly, weighty moral quandaries, fantastical locations, implausible but intriguing technology(and technobabble), small people making big decisions, the triumph of cleverness and compassion over anger and violence, and most of all, fun. Weird, silly, goofy fun.

If you want to explain to somebody what the show is all about, showing them this would be a good start. It may not be the best episode, but it absolutely revels in being Doctor Who.

[Kato]

I just remember I wanted to post a few words on the few serials (far too few) I saw last week. So, in no particular order...

Spoiler: Genesis of the Daleks

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After I'd started it I think when Curly did the Reviews of the first few episodes I finally decided to just watch the rest. Because reasons.
All in all... it wasn't bad something that really bugs is that Davros can't shine very well if his main antagonists, his fellow Kaleds, are such naive idiots. When you've seen the episode I guess you know what I mean...Nyder was entertaining in his evilness, even though I'd have wished for a bigger role. The Doctor's final decision is... I guess questionable but it's better than "Daleks are also people" which... well, they are not. And that's not meant to be specist, it's meant to be "they are beings of pure evil bread to burn down the universe". Which reminds me I was a bit irritated by the fact you can apparently check a DNA chart and figure out a species has no morals or mercy. Ah, well.

Spoiler: Revelations of the Daleks

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Was... in some regards better, in some weaker than Genesis. The plot had some really lackluster things, like the "trap" set for the Doctor. Davros felt stronger because I got the feeling his adversaries were better. The knight/assassin character was rather entertaining, and Daleks in.fighting is a fun thing to watch for no particular reason, I'll admit. While Peri was the companion I didn't feel she was really bad here... Though, that weird DJ was... I don't know. I guess it was just a really weird idea, like what they did in Long Game or Bad Wolf but there I found it a bit more entertaining maybe because I really have little connection to 1980s US DJ culture. They certainly seemed to have lot of fun, though.

Spoiler: Terror of the Autons

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Friv already did that, in parts, I think.
Not bad, though a big part is thanks to the Master who is pretty entertaining all the time. I guess I'm somewhat spoiled by modern CGI but the special effects here just... don't work. Well, not the menacing ones, anyway. Remember how Moffat takes things like "I'm not sure if this statue moved" or "what did I want to do when I entered the room?"? Well unless you are scared your plastic arm chair is going to eat you, you probably won't get the same feeling here. And that doll/puppet... Maybe it would have worked better if they didn't try to show the struggle in bits and pieces but just faded out or something...
This is also Jo Grants first appearance and... I'm not sure where they were going with this. I mean, on a emancipation perspective. On the one hand I guess Jo is supposed to be a capable agent and even saves the Doctor at time(s). On the other hand she nearly destroys UNIT, and even though she "took" A levels in science she didn't "pass" them. Which really kind of makes her look not that impressive... At least Three apologizes when he thinks she's the tea lady.

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Happens to be Jo's last appearance, I think. At least she leaves the Doctor at the end.
It's not bad... the economist themes are not nearly as poorly shoved down our throats as Two Doctors does their vegetarianism. Maybe a few things are a bit weird... I'm mostly a bit disgruntled at Jo leaving not only to marry a man she met a few days ago but also decides to go into the rain forest to look for some fancy fungus. This was... certainly unexpected. Apparently the "What has twelve legs, is yellow, hairy, etc? - I don't know either but it's crawling up your leg" joke must have been much better for picking up women in the 1970s.
Also, I'm a bit put off at Three's attitude towards the evil AI. I can't recall too many instances of the Doctor interacting with an AI (apart from K9) but I never thought he was that... what do you call it? Binarist?
Again, the maggots weren't that frightening (considering they apparently were made of condoms) but it worked better for me than the plastic monsters in the TotA.
Jo was enjoyable enough and while I only saw the first and last of her run I guess she grew on the Doctor a lot.

Spoiler: Delta and the Bannermen

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I picked that over Paradise Towers even though the latter got 9/10 instead of 8/10 in my guide, but "musical comedy" peaked my interest.
It was... certainly something. I guess. The idea wasn't bad and the execution was okay, and there was... music. At times. Well, I guess music, or at least sound was pretty central to the plot. There were some interesting events and it got a chuckle out of me once in a while. But while there wasn't much really bad about it there also was little that really impressed me. It was decent.

Spoiler: Dragonfire

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I actually thought was pretty entertaining. It wasn't really menacing and felt much more like a almost straight up comedy but... I like comedy. The idea with the dragon wasn't really bad and the reveal at the end wasn't either even if it does raise some questions but I'm willing to forgive that. Not every joke was a hit but the Doctor trying to distract a guard with a philosophical discussion just to find encounter apparently a big fan of Plato got me pretty good. And the following "What are you doing here?" "Is everyone on this planet obsessed with metaphysics?" made me chuckle as well.
It also happens to mark Mel's departure and Ace' arrival as a companion. While Ace was entertaining I guess her fame as best companion more so comes from later episodes. Don't get me wrong, she wasn't bad but she was more promising than really shining here.

I feel like I forgot one but I already can't remember... As well, if I do remember I will be back.

[BWR]

Just saw the day of the Doctor

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It was not as bad as I feared, since though we got Billie Piper we didn't get Rose. Maybe SM trying to placate both camps at once. I would have preferred getting someone like Ace, who did like to blow stuff up, as the interface.

But the biggest problem still occurred: the Doctor didn't really blow up everybody. Taking one of the really good things RTD did and basically saying 'screw you, I'm going to mess up all your story stuff and retcon everything because I'm Steven Moffat'.

In a sense I can understand the Doctor pulling an impossible win out of his arse (this is DW, after all) and wanting to fix past mistakes, but it leant so much more depth to the character that he not only failed but intentionally had to become one of the worst war criminals ever to save everyone.

I thought the actual war scenes looked ridiculously low-tech. You have time manipulation with all the implications for fun that has, and you basically have WWII infantry with zap guns. Sure, most of the high-tech fighting was probably over by that time and it was a mopping up, but it still grated.

Good to see the various references to past lives, like the board with all the other companions, and Clara very pointedly looking at Susan's picture and note (she probably remembers the Dotor mentioning his granddaughter - maybe we'll see more of her later).
Good to see the Zygons again, though I wonder how they got their hands on Time Lord tech.

And seeing Tom Baker again was a treat, even as little as we saw.

[dehro]

I have a question, during the epic climax when

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you see all the thirteen doctors working together to vanish Gallifrey, and you hear them calling out to each other, did they get back the original actors to record a few lines? I thought I heard Eight, and definitely Seven talking about the coordinates. It'd be nice to know they're still part of the Anniversary in some way.

Pretty sure they just went fishing for the right lines in old episodes. I haven't watched old-who, but I'm guessing there has been an awful lot of polarity reversing and fiddling with coordinates, over the decades. Enough of it to find a few suitable scenes to cutpaste in place

About the final gimmick...

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If the plan came to mind to Doctor nr 9, or War doctor, as may be, and was worked on by subsequent doctors... How did they get the message back to the previous ones?

[KillianHawkeye]

Pretty sure they just went fishing for the right lines in old episodes. I haven't watched old-who, but I'm guessing there has been an awful lot of polarity reversing and fiddling with coordinates, over the decades. Enough of it to find a few suitable scenes to cutpaste in place

Those are my thoughts as well. It's not like the Doctor has never had to deal with coordinates or polarities before, heh.



Overall, I think my favorite thing from the special was the exasperated comments from the John Hurt Doctor at the silly antics of his future selves.

EDIT:

About the final gimmick...

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If the plan came to mind to Doctor nr 9, or War doctor, as may be, and was worked on by subsequent doctors... How did they get the message back to the previous ones?

Time travel.........

[Finn Solomon]

About the final gimmick...

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If the plan came to mind to Doctor nr 9, or War doctor, as may be, and was worked on by subsequent doctors... How did they get the message back to the previous ones?

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Ten mentioned he's been performing the calculations for 'a very long time'. I assumed they sent a message cube (like the one in The Doctor's Wife) to tell One what to do, and he'd pass it up the line. Twelve is the one who finishes the calculation, which is why he showed up to share the results with the rest of them.

[Kato]

Also, I feel slightly ashamed to say it, but before this day I thought the show was called Doctor Whom.

Ah, that's not so bad. Just remember forever: He is "the Doctor", not Doctor Who. (That's something that grinds many fans gears, I think)

Just don't go to tumblr.

What's so bad about tumblr?

[Brother Oni]

Spoiler: And one last thing...

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GALLIFREY LIVES!

I feel the urge to go graffiti that all over.

No, no, no, it should be:

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GALLIFREY STANDS

Much more inspiring in my opinion.

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"Why Installing Flamethrowers is a Bad Idea"

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"Surviving 8 Hours Filming Inside a Tin Can: A Spotters Guide of Drain Grates in London"

[Eldan]

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Personally, I like
Gallifrey Falls No More!

Also, the Five-ish Doctors was quite funny, yes. It's astounding, really. I still can't tell the voices of five and six apart.

[SmartAlec]

Hmm... Maybe start with Tom Baker's last season. It stands on its own (they changed producers at that point) and is, generally, pretty damn good. From there you can decide if you want to go back to the start of T. Baker's run or continue on with Davison. Season 18 is nicely self contained so, really, I think it's the perfect place to start.

I think the episode 'City of Death' in Tom Baker's second-to-last season is practically the blueprint for the modern show - or at least eerily similar in tone and style.

[Hopeless]

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The Zygons didn't have time travel, they did have access to stolen Time Lord Tech allowing them to suspend themselves in time within an otherwise normal painting until a certain amount of time had passed allowing them to re-emerge.

If Queen Liz hadn't set it up they wouldn't have been able to access the Black Archive so the question is where did the Zygons get access to Timelord Art?

Still if crossing their timelines cost them their memories of the incident save maybe the current era version then its very possible

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Thirteen knows where Gallifrey was put and will deal with liberating them

So this is why the Doctor left Gallifrey in the first place?

Maybe we ought to wonder what happened to Susan let alone Ten's clone daughter?

The preview of the Christmas special makes me wonder what else is in store?

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The Doctor arrives at Trenzalore and we might learn what his name is and quite possibly the Daleks faked everybody else out because saying his true name releases Gallifrey and they're not in a position to prevent being defeated since they won't know where Gallifrey is?

Of course I'd like a scene where we learn how, where and why the Daleks remember who the Doctor is?

[Soras Teva Gee]

About the final gimmick...

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If the plan came to mind to Doctor nr 9, or War doctor, as may be, and was worked on by subsequent doctors... How did they get the message back to the previous ones?

Time Travel?

Ask a silly question...

[Helanna]

What's so bad about tumblr?

Hey, even tumblr seems pretty happy with the 50th. I was bracing myself to wade through a bunch of "OMG MOFFAT RUINED EVERYTHING" posts, but so far so good.

Also, the official Doctor Who tumblr is generally amazing enough to make up for any less-than-pleasant fans.

[Sliver]

Hey, what are the chances anyone has a high res version of this?

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[Aotrs Commander]

So random thought occurred this morning...

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After great rumination on what they revealed in the special, I realised that Moffat is once again strategically lying to us.

The thirteenth Doctor is clearly not Peter Capaldi...

It's Peter Capaldi's eyebrows!

So obvious, I should have thought of it before.

Edit:

Another thought strikes, this one perhaps marginally saner.

If I were to look into some of the audio plays, which would you all recommend as the highlights? (With bias towards Eight - of whom I've seen/heard so undeservedly little - Mum found the 96 movie on demand and we watched that this afternoon, which made me think - and my unashamed Dalek fanboyism.)

And, come to that, same question, regarding the novels (something else I could add to my Christmas lists.)

Edit edit: I just wiki'd the list of audia dramas.

Frack my tin hat, to paraphrase my mate. That is a LOT of audio plays. I knew they'd done a fair few, but I hadn't realised they'd done THAT many!

[Hopeless]

iplayer is having problems... I think its being downloaded by one too many people!

By the way anyone catch the names on that board telling you who runs that school at the start?

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Is it bad I'd rather have a copy of the picture where they peer inside the picture and we see the backs of the three?

By the way has anyone thought if that's a second of time picturing the fall of Arcadia, Gallifrey's second largest city then wouldn't that mean War saved everyone still alive at that point in time?

I think I'd prefer they had shown three figures with their backs to you rather than one the first time round but that would have ruined the subsequent surprise though!