afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread IV

[Lord_Gareth]

Has Lady Baalphegor been injured in living memory?

[afroakuma]

Has Lady Baalphegor been injured in living memory?

Well, I mean, she must have been at some point since there's a vial of her blood around, but that was probably self-inflicted.

[Yora]

Did Genasi appear in Planescape? I don't remember having seen them in any source older than the 3rd edition FRCS.

[enderlord99]

Well, I mean, she must have been at some point since there's a vial of her blood around, but that was probably self-inflicted.

[generic followup question] By which I mean "could you elaborate on that? Please do."

[afroakuma]

Did Genasi appear in Planescape? I don't remember having seen them in any source older than the 3rd edition FRCS.

They did! They just weren't tremendously important.

[generic followup question]

[generic followup murder]It's an artifact that controls a flock of specially trained erinyes. Details in the Savage Tide adventure path.

[enderlord99]

[generic followup murder]

[generic revelation that I'm a not-so-generic variety of lich]

[Tragak]

[generic revelation that I'm a not-so-generic variety of lich]

… What.

[afroakuma]

[generic revelation that I'm a not-so-generic variety of lich]

Right, because I'd have trouble with undead.

[False_Prophet]

Is there an explanation for how the "Great Mother" a Lawful Evil Deity, of
a usually Lawful Evil race came to inhabit a Layer ob the Abyss ?
Is that not pretty dangerous for the Demons in Planescape from a Metaphysical point, that it threatens the "Chaotic" fabric of that plane like the Formori did in Acheron ?

[Xuldarinar]

Where all can I find information on the Demiplane of Nightmares?

I've noticed, while Diaboli are from the Demiplane of Nightmares, the summary for them at the very beginning of Chapter one of the Dragon Magazine Compendium states they are natives of the Plane of Shadow, is this a typo or is there actually something to this?

Given that Diaboli are described as their home's equivalent of humans, would it be fair to say there are likely hybrids, similar to half-elves and half-orcs, of diabolus blood? Is there anything official for this? Are there any official races that could reflect the unlikely hybrid or distant decedent of a diabolus and a human?

On a dramatically different note, do you know of any deities that wouldn't be opposed to the practice of binding (i.e. the focus of the Binder class), or even promote it?

Where all are vestiges known to, or at least could, reside? I know of the Shattered Night but where else? For instance, perhaps Zceryll and Otiax reside past the Ultimon of the Far-realm?

[RúsëaMenci]

Is there an explanation for how the "Great Mother" a Lawful Evil Deity, of
a usually Lawful Evil race came to inhabit a Layer ob the Abyss ?
Is that not pretty dangerous for the Demons in Planescape from a Metaphysical point, that it threatens the "Chaotic" fabric of that plane like the Formori did in Acheron ?

One deity of an opposing alignment isn’t going to threaten anything. Divine Realms are rather small (read: finite) relative to the total size of an Abyssal layer (read: infinite), much less the entire Abyss. It’s more accurate that such positions tend to be somewhat uncomfortable/dangerous for the gods in question, as I understand things.

Where all are vestiges known to, or at least could, reside? I know of the Shattered Night but where else? For instance, perhaps Zceryll and Otiax reside past the Ultimon of the Far-realm?

I think by definition they do not reside anywhere because they literally don’t exist. Like, the Far Realm is a place, not in this multiverse but in another one. The Shattered Night is a place in this multiverse, though on the ragged edge of it (and those who are contacted there are not quite the same as vestiges though similar methods work and are therefore available to the binder class). Vestiges do not exist, and therefore are not in any place.

[afroakuma]

Is there an explanation for how the "Great Mother" a Lawful Evil Deity, of
a usually Lawful Evil race came to inhabit a Layer ob the Abyss ?

At at least one point she was chaotic evil. Might still be. Hard to say for sure with such an alien mindset.

Is that not pretty dangerous for the Demons in Planescape from a Metaphysical point, that it threatens the "Chaotic" fabric of that plane like the Formori did in Acheron ?

That was formians in Arcadia, and no, if there's any plane that doesn't care it's the Abyss, which has theoretically infinite layers (certainly more than it needs). The presence of a single deity definitely isn't enough to tip the scales.

Where all can I find information on the Demiplane of Nightmares?

Ehh, there's not much to find. If you've seen diaboli in sources, that's basically your lot.

I've noticed, while Diaboli are from the Demiplane of Nightmares, the summary for them at the very beginning of Chapter one of the Dragon Magazine Compendium states they are natives of the Plane of Shadow, is this a typo or is there actually something to this?

Nope. They're from Nightmare, not Shadow. Mind you, some may have emigrated. I suspect that was an attempt to integrate them into the basic cosmology, as opposed to leaving them out in Mystaran weirdness.

Given that Diaboli are described as their home's equivalent of humans, would it be fair to say there are likely hybrids, similar to half-elves and half-orcs, of diabolus blood?

Not necessarily.

Is there anything official for this?

Nnnnnope.

Are there any official races that could reflect the unlikely hybrid or distant decedent of a diabolus and a human?

I'ma go with no.

On a dramatically different note, do you know of any deities that wouldn't be opposed to the practice of binding (i.e. the focus of the Binder class), or even promote it?

Oh definitely not. Zero. Nuh-uh. No.

Where all are vestiges known to, or at least could, reside?

They don't, that's the point. In the first post I note the "Near Realm," which is the reference I use to describe the existence zone of the vestiges. Ahazu is a special exception.

[CRtwenty]

I've got a few questions regarding the FR Deity Nobanion since one of my players decided to play a Paladin that worships him and I know next to nothing about him except what the FR Campaign setting book says (which is just his Domains, Portfolios, Holy Symbol, and Favored Weapon) and a little blurb I found on the FR wiki.

He's referred to as an interloper deity who just recently arrived on Toril. Do we know what world he originated from? Also he's listed as a demipower in the service of Silvanus, how did that occur? How would a typical worshiper of him act?

[Xuldarinar]

Oh definitely not. Zero. Nuh-uh. No.

Fair enough. I figured no living deity would actually support such a practice but I thought I would ask.

I would say Tenebrous is an exception, but…

On another note, the variant: Heterodoxy and Heresy, implies that some deities find it more or less acceptable than others. That or they are missing two comas.

The actual sentence saying: "Deities who despise vestiges and binders might frown upon a follower consorting with binders or for taking up pact magic." as opposed to saying: "Deities, who despise vestiges and binders, might frown upon a follower consorting with binders or for taking up pact magic."

[False_Prophet]

At at least one point she was chaotic evil. Might still be. Hard to say for sure with such an alien mindset.

Do you mean she was at one point CE in another Edition of the Setting ( I have only looked up Lords of Madness about her Aligment sofar, so it might be just one writer messing it up because the Beholder are LE), or that she actually switched Aligment "In-Setting" at some point ? LoM says she is erronously believed to be insane by her Cultists could that, explicitly wrong, believe cause a Deity to inhabit a "unnatural" Habitat like that ?
Why would the Demons allow a Lawful Deity to inhabit the apparently entire, or at least large Part of the, 6th Plane considering the Blood War against LE Fiends ? Don't they care, or are they to weak to do anything about it ?

[Yora]

Beholders have been lawful at least since AD&D 1st Edition.

[enderlord99]

Oh definitely not. Zero. Nuh-uh. No.

...So, Vecna is an even bigger hypocrite than I thought?

[Tragak]

...So, Vecna is an even bigger hypocrite than I thought?

When in doubt, yes

[RúsëaMenci]

Why would the Demons allow a Lawful Deity to inhabit the apparently entire, or at least large Part of the, 6th Plane considering the Blood War against LE Fiends ? Don't they care, or are they to weak to do anything about it ?

Why should they care? She's LE, but she's not a devil or in any way affiliated with devils, so she isn't on the other side, and deities living in cross-aligned planes isn't all that uncommon, and is really in no way threatening to the stability of a plane, least of all the Abyss.

[afroakuma]

I've got a few questions regarding the FR Deity Nobanion since one of my players decided to play a Paladin that worships him and I know next to nothing about him except what the FR Campaign setting book says (which is just his Domains, Portfolios, Holy Symbol, and Favored Weapon) and a little blurb I found on the FR wiki.

He's referred to as an interloper deity who just recently arrived on Toril. Do we know what world he originated from?

Narnia. No, that's not a joke.

Also he's listed as a demipower in the service of Silvanus, how did that occur?

Well, Silvanus must have agreed to serve as his patron. Not surprising for the old god of the woodlands.

How would a typical worshiper of him act?

Ehh, take this and begone.

On another note, the variant: Heterodoxy and Heresy, implies that some deities find it more or less acceptable than others. That or they are missing two comas.

No no no. Deities who know about it despise it. Deities who don't, don't. It's a pretty obscure thing.

Do you mean she was at one point CE in another Edition of the Setting

Yep.

or that she actually switched Aligment "In-Setting" at some point ? LoM says she is erronously believed to be insane by her Cultists could that, explicitly wrong, believe cause a Deity to inhabit a "unnatural" Habitat like that ?

Well I don't understand your phrasing, but gods decide where their realm shall lie.

Why would the Demons allow a Lawful Deity

They don't really get a say. As I said not so long ago in this thread (or maybe the last one), while the natives have all sorts of ways to antagonize a deity they dislike, it's not possible to force them out. An evil deity could set up shop on Mount Celestia and erect a Tower of Butts that just moons everyone all day every day in every way and the celestials wouldn't be able to do a thing about it.

considering the Blood War against LE Fiends ?

Oh is that your issue? The blood war isn't between LE and CE, it's between Hell and the Abyss. The Great Mother plays no role in the war, so her presence has no relevance to it.

...So, Vecna is an even bigger hypocrite than I thought?

Well, do remember that as I said he doesn't know that he's a binder. Was. Was a binder. He doesn't know that.

[Alleran]

An evil deity could set up shop on Mount Celestia and erect a Tower of Butts that just moons everyone all day every day in every way and the celestials wouldn't be able to do a thing about it.

Is it weird that I would be greatly amused to see this happen?

More seriously, the plane itself doesn't attempt to reject the sudden influence of evil on it (even if it isn't the entire layer) by way of a divine realm? I recall that there's at least one Abyssal Layer (the one that Adimarchus rules?) that was formed from part of a layer jettisoned from Mount Celestia because it was corrupted.

[afroakuma]

More seriously, the plane itself doesn't attempt to reject the sudden influence of evil on it (even if it isn't the entire layer) by way of a divine realm? I recall that there's at least one Abyssal Layer (the one that Adimarchus rules?) that was formed from part of a layer jettisoned from Mount Celestia because it was corrupted.

Oh the plane doesn't like it, but a divine realm stays anchored where it is. It would take non-divine corruption to get sloughed off.

[Vedhin]

How do the Beastlands and Gehenna embody Good with Chaotic leanings and Evil with Lawful leanings, respectively? They just don't really seem to be aligned, other than their inhabitants.

[Tragak]

How do the Beastlands and Gehenna embody Good with Chaotic leanings and Evil with Lawful leanings, respectively? They just don't really seem to be aligned, other than their inhabitants.

Beastlands: Simplicity. They don't care about The Establishment enough to spend the effort supporting it (such as Mount Celestia, Bytopia, Elysium) OR dismantling it (such as Arborea), so their perfect world has no establishment to fight for or against. Showing kindness and charity to the people you meet is all that matters, not worrying about being told how to do it.

Gehenna: Challenge. They don't care about The Establishment's right to exist for it's own sake (such as Acheron or Baator), they just find joining criminal syndicates to be more stable than acting independently. They gladly support institutions that tear people down rather than building them up, believing that surely they themselves will not be punished for failing a system that looks for excuses to punish everybody it sees.

As they convinced themselves that climbing the ranks of somebody else's criminal empire would be safer for them than simply staying where they are would be, so too is their afterlife an infinite volcanic wasteland where a second of hesitation would send them falling miles into rivers of lava, depending on visiting Devils to build (temporary) cities of safety for them instead of building cities for themselves.

[Vedhin]

I'm more asking why an untamed wilderness represents NG (C), and 4 volcanoes floating in space represents NE (L).

[RúsëaMenci]

Then you are asking the wrong question. A plane’s inhabitants count at least as much as its geological features, and in the case of exemplars, typically far more. A plane is not just rocks, trees, rivers, and lava.

[Tragak]

I'm more asking why an untamed wilderness represents NG (C), and 4 volcanoes floating in space represents NE (L).

In the Beastlands, Civilization never developed because it never needed to, everybody took care of each other well enough without it.

In Gehenna, the destruction and violence of pure evil is gathered into something resembling structure, not not structured into anything more than a big pile of destruction.

[Vedhin]

Then you are asking the wrong question. A plane’s inhabitants count at least as much as its geological features, and in the case of exemplars, typically far more. A plane is not just rocks, trees, rivers, and lava.

Well, most of the Outer Planes do have some relation between alignment and geography/environment.

Spoiler: My Interpretations

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Spoiler: Ysgard

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Ysgard seems to be about personal growth-- changing yourself for the better. It's about overcoming challenges, so Norse mythology really seems to be a good backdrop.

Spoiler: Limbo

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Hmm, an Everchanging Chaos representing Chaos. This one is easy.

Spoiler: Pandemonium

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It's Chaos mixed with Evil. A lightless, endless maze of caverns with a howling wind that drives you mad seems like a good way to express change for the worse.

Spoiler: Abyss

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It's infinite, but all the layers tend to cause needless suffering somehow.

Spoiler: Carceri

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Carceri operates on a layer-by-layer basis. But each layer tends to reflect what got the inhabitants sent there. Carceri is a plane of traitors, and all the layers can sucker-punch you with their hazards.

Spoiler: Hades

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The Neutral Evil is all about apathy and despair. The Greek underworld worked the same basic way.

Spoiler: Baator

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The Nine Hells operate on a layer-by-layer basis. For example, Dis is about tyranny, and is a giant city ruled by a tyrant.

Spoiler: Acheron

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Acheron is Lawful with some Evil. It embodies many of the more negative aspects of Law, but the simple uncaring grinding of the cubes illustrates Law that serves no real purpose. Thuldanin also shows being weighed down by tradition.

Spoiler: Mechanus

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Giant clockwork. This is also easy.

Spoiler: Arcadia

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Arcadia is ordered nature. In Arcadia, everything plays its part, and nature follows along.

Spoiler: Celestia

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The Seven Mounting Heavens are about following Law and Good on a path to self improvement. The seven layers are structured as a mountain, illustrating the movement upward.

Spoiler: Bytopia

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Bytopia is about things like hard work. In Bytopia, you reap what you sow. Dothion has stable villages, and Shurrok has risky adventures, but they both give you what you earned.

Spoiler: Elysium

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Elysium is ultimately just better. Here, the environment is idealized and purified, with the dislikable removed.

Spoiler: Arborea

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If Elysium is better, then Arborea is more. It's a plain about living, enjoying what is. Nature runs wild in Arborea, but in ways that provide more moving and emotional experiences.

[afroakuma]

How do the Beastlands and Gehenna embody Good with Chaotic leanings and Evil with Lawful leanings, respectively? They just don't really seem to be aligned, other than their inhabitants.

The Beastlands is free and content. Everyone's allowed to do their own thing within the law of the jungle, and it's fair and healthy and otherwise just quite nice about you being there. It exalts life in all natural forms and provides a loosely-defined place for everyone. It's free and wild, but not truly lawless.

Gehenna is just plain awful. It hates you, it excludes you, it doesn't have enough room and is basically pleased about that. The plane has rules but no order and has predetermined that you, personally, deserve an eternity of misery. Sadistic in the extreme, the law of the land is that the land is the law.

[Vedhin]

Gehenna is just plain awful. It hates you, it excludes you, it doesn't have enough room and is basically pleased about that. The plane has rules but no order and has predetermined that you, personally, deserve an eternity of misery. Sadistic in the extreme, the law of the land is that the land is the law.

Man, it's amazing how many of the Lower Planes sound like Athas, but more hospitable.