Cucumber Quest: Basically if Paper Mario the Thousand Year Door was a comic

[-D-]

Woah! That's completely out of line! Would you call someone a racial slur if they're a villian? Reffering to someone by their correct gender is not some special priviledge we extend them as long as they please us, it's just common decency. There's nothing wrong with hating her for her actions, deliberately misgendering someone is still transphobia.

Woah! Woah!

First, it was a slip of the mind.

Spoiler: Explanation

Show

I was under impression of this image:


If you look at that Image and think that's a rose, what are you doing here Trisha? Aren't there roses that need their blossom's trimmed?

Second I didn't refer to their gender. Rosemaster is just a generic name as Thornmaster, Windcatcher, Soulstealer, etc.


EDIT: Third, Thornmaster is IMO a very cool name.

[banthesun]

Fair fair, I figured yours was a slip of mind. I was responding to Shogo's comment, mainly.

[Lord Raziere]

If we're being transgender conscious, shouldn't we be referring to her as Rosemistress?

Because master is a male title....

[Lissou]

I think "Thorn" and "Rose" are both gender-neutral. To me, the name change feels more like she's trying to sound nicer (when she actually isn't) than anything else, so calling her "Thornmaster" (or Thornmistress) when she's being villainous/prickly makes sense to me. I hadn't associated it with the whole gender issue.

[-D-]

If we're being transgender conscious, shouldn't we be referring to her as Rosemistress?

Because master is a male title....

Rosemaster/Thornmaster is what they call themselves.


As for master being a male title, I think it's kinda changing. I mean you master something regardless of gender. You get a master's degree in subject X; You don't get a mistress degree in subject X (insert adult only pun here).

[-D-]

So far, this has turned into It Got Worse™ the Webcomic.

[Yuki Akuma]

I think "Thorn" and "Rose" are both gender-neutral.

'Rose' isn't gender-neutral.

Rose is actually a name. And it's exclusively a feminine one.

'Thorn' I'll grant you as gender-neutral, but it's pretty obvious she chose 'Rosemaster' to be more feminine. Trans people choose new names specifically to have a more feminine or masculine name than their birth name all the time. Even if they started with a fairly neutral name like 'Sam' or 'Ashley'.

[Lissou]

I guess I thought that because "thorn" is a feminine word in my language, so to me the change from "Thorn" to "Rose" doesn't make it more feminine, just less villainous. It's true that Rose is an actual name, though. I was reading it thinking of the flower, not the name, which gave it different connotations in my head.

[-D-]

'Rose' isn't gender-neutral.

No one is disputing that, but, the name isn't Rose, it's Rosemaster. That's generic as hell, get out. In same manner Rose is feminine, but Rosenkrantz isn't.

Also different words in different language have different gender. For example death is female in Russian language but male in German. It's within realm of possibility that Thorn/Rose have neutral/masculine/feminine gender (or no gender at all!).

[Guancyto]

I think at the point at which people are being compelled to murder their friends you may, in fact, dispense with common decency as well.

I guess gigidigi wasn't kidding about this chapter not being all rainbows and sunshine!

[-D-]

I guess gigidigi wasn't kidding about this chapter not being all rainbows and sunshine!

Oh, it's rainbow and sunshine, all right. Gasoline rainbows and nuclear sunshine that tears skin off the bones.

[banthesun]

I think at the point at which people are being compelled to murder their friends you may, in fact, dispense with common decency as well.

At the risk of repeating myself, would you be willing to use a racial slur in a similar situation? I know it's not the same thing, but I feel it makes a point about drawing a line.

[-D-]

At the risk of repeating myself, would you be willing to use a racial slur in a similar situation? I know it's not the same thing, but I feel it makes a point about drawing a line.

I think there is a difference between using a racial slur and using a honorific title. Because changing the name from one to the other seems like a honorific title and not a slur.

If you consider slur as an insult that damages reputation, than I'd disagree - swapping genders has a long history of being used as an insult (any militaristic camp officer used it at least once).

[Lissou]

Honestly, I think this is a tricky situation. I'm totally in favour or respecting people's gender identities regardless of how horrible they are, and regardless of the name I would use for her, I'm going to use female pronouns since she's a woman. Heck, I didn't even notice the whole trans thing until someone pointed it out.

On the other hand, if someone had the title/name "Cat-flayer" and renamed themselves "Mice-savior" because it sounds better and less vilainous, I'd still call them Catflayer, because they're flaying cats, and I want to draw attention to that, and not use the name they picked to spin things their way.

The Thorn/Rose thing was, to me, firmly in the latter category. It was the case of a villain avoiding their honest, villainous title, and using a nicer sounding title to pretend they're not evil. Until this recent conversation, it hadn't occurred to me that the name change could have been linked to the trans issue instead/as well.

So, referring to her as the wrong gender, definitely not cool. Using the whole name, when it's not clearly gendered, however... I'm not sure. If Catflayer told me that I should call them Micesavior because it aligns with their gender identity better, I'd be pretty certain they're using it as an excuse to have it their way and spin the whole thing in their favour, and that they're completely lying.

So here, when Rosemaster shows her thorns, and reveals herself as evil, reverting to the more evil name Thornmaster makes perfect sense to me. On the other hand, I can see how refusing to use a trans person's new name would be pretty disrespectful (although not as bad as using the wrong pronouns).

In the end, she's a fictional character and there is no risk of offending her, but there are real people who may get hurt because they're reminded of how they're treated in their everyday life. Those people, for the most part, did not change their name to mask their evil nature. So I'd err on the side of not upsetting them.

Quite honestly though, I think Thornmaster is a much more badass name. Reminds me of the Queen of Thorns, too. I kinda wish the name change had been the other way around.

[Guancyto]

At the risk of repeating myself, would you be willing to use a racial slur in a similar situation? I know it's not the same thing, but I feel it makes a point about drawing a line.

Setting aside that nobody at all can agree on what transphobia entails or contains and what does or doesn't qualify (this is natural, even if the behavior is super old the term has been around for what, a decade? Wikipedia tells me 2007), I think a sexist slur would be just fine right now.

You know, Rosemaster, we could have been a good couple. We could have had something special. But you one crazy-ass bitch!

[Lissou]

Triple update! Woot!

And... :(

[-D-]

If Carrot survives and doesn't hold a grudge against Almond, I'll be seriously pissed.

[super dark33]

Why would he hold a grudge? He isnt a spireful person.

[-D-]

Why would he hold a grudge? He isnt a spireful person.

Because she tried to murder him? You don't just laugh away attempted murder.

[super dark33]

Because she tried to murder him? You don't just laugh away attempted murder.

From a friend who is clearly controlled by a malevolent force?

In fact ill be pissed if Almond wont apologize!

[Lissou]

Carrot is blaming himself. I don't see him holding a grudge. But hopefully Almond comforts him while this is over. He's a good guy.

[-D-]

From a friend who is clearly controlled by a malevolent force?

In fact ill be pissed if Almond wont apologize!

I get it's more than mindcontrol. She (Rosemaster) seems to have infected Almond's mind using her desperation. It feels less like Rosemaster is in control and more like she cracked the vault that houses Almonds inner demons.

What I meant to say, if this episode doesn't have any lasting consequences, I'll be kinda pissed.

[Thomar_of_Uointer]

What I meant to say, if this episode doesn't have any lasting consequences, I'll be kinda pissed.

Carrot is blaming himself. I don't see him holding a grudge. But hopefully Almond comforts him while this is over. He's a good guy.

I bet that Nightmare is going to offer him a power boost to make sure that Cucumber doesn't get killed by the Disaster Masters. Turning Carrot into a dark knight will make everyone suspicious of him.

[-D-]

I bet that Nightmare is going to offer him a power boost to make sure that Cucumber doesn't get killed by the Disaster Masters. Turning Carrot into a dark knight will make everyone suspicious of him.

Wait. You want to turn Carrot into Batman. That's crazy talk!

[banthesun]

Personally, I'm banking on a

GIIIIIGAAAA

CAAROOOOOT

BREEAAAKEEEEERRRR!

[-D-]

Personally, I'm banking on a

GIIIIIGAAAA

CAAROOOOOT

BREEAAAKEEEEERRRR!

Personally, I'm hoping to see Carrot die. Because - drama. Plus he definitely isn't my favorite char by far.

What will happen most likely is that Carrot will make a wish upon a star.

[Domochevsky]

Personally, I'm hoping to see Carrot die. Because - drama. Plus he definitely isn't my favorite char by far.

What will happen most likely is that Carrot will make a wish upon a star.

Please don't fall into the "death = instant drama" trap... >_>
This is not the type of comic to do that. It's still Paper Mario inspired, after all.

[-D-]

Its not so much drama, that was a joke, as permanence of decisions. If you can't undo some actions, it makes choices more meaningful and adds to the tension.

[-D-]

Speaking of lack of tension.

This update happened.

[Domochevsky]

This could be just the confidence boost he needs right now. We'll see if he has the mettle to draw strength from it.