Warhammer and WH40K RPGs II: Burning Witches, Heretics, and Fate

[shadow_archmagi]

Yes it is.

There's a risk of warp core/geller field malfunctions when you translate between dimensions. The translation also shuts down most systems except propulsion and life support. Guns stop working and void shields fail.

Sources would be appreciated.

[Grim Portent]

Sources would be appreciated.

Translation prevents the Kronos Starfort from reactivating it's weapons and void shields for a while (maybe 15 minutes) after dropping out of the warp in Iron Warrior. It also interferes with Word Bearer scanners and vox systems in the third book of the Word Bearers Omnibus, can't remember the specific books name.

[Ceiling_Squid]

Why are multiple short jumps more dangerous than one long one? Is the warp transition especially dangerous?

The warp is a terrible hell-dimension, for starters.

Breaking through the barrier between worlds is not something undertaken lightly. I have no clear canon backing me up on this (mind you, 40k is not always internally consistent thanks to the large number of writers involved), but as far as my games run, I make certain to indicate that warp translation is half-superstition. It's not an exact art.

Multiple small jumps is probably going to hurt more in the long run than diving into the warp once and then emerging once. More chances for things to go wrong during translation into/out of the warp.

Mind you, this isn't reflected in the rules of the game, per se. But consider that there's precedence - no two warp jumps are exactly alike. Travel time is not consistent. Because warp-time is screwy, actual transit time as reflected in realspace can change significantly in a small number of cases. Some ships might travel the same distance, but arrive hours, days, or months apart in realspacetime (ugh, that's a terrible neologism on my part. I'm sorry. ). For plot-convenience sake, not all writers address this issue, and I doubt its a terribly common occurrence to have such wide discrepancies.

In the rarest of circumstances, sometimes a ship emerges in realspace "before" it actually departed. In traveling through the warp to their destination, they were somehow shunted into the past as well. That's just how screwed up the warp is. DH: Ascension even mentions an obscure Inquisitorial Order, the Ordo Chronos, that's intended to protect the timeline against such accidental time travelers.

So the way I rule it as a GM, the more jumps you make, the more chances for variation. You're playing with the warp each time you translate. Each time you make a jump, you are subject to the vagaries of the warp. Multiple short jumps may wind up completely screwing up your itinerary, due to the fact that there will likely be some time variation each instance.

EDIT: I'm actually quite curious now. Does RT or one of the other RPGs have a table that deals with warp jump variation? I've only played DH and DW, and haven't actually encountered any rules governing warp jumps.

[Grim Portent]

I can't recall any warp travel tables, but I've not poured over the RT ship and travel stuff in any detail yet, but I can imagine they'd avoid putting stuff like that in because a single really bad roll could result in the party emerging in M45 or something.

[Ceiling_Squid]

I can't recall any warp travel tables, but I've not poured over the RT ship and travel stuff in any detail yet, but I can imagine they'd avoid putting stuff like that in because a single really bad roll could result in the party emerging in M45 or something.

I'm willing to bet that time variation that big is extremely rare stuff, anyway, thank the Throne. The thing major plots points are made of.

The closest I remember in 40k fiction is in one of the Ravenor books, where for a period the main character was transported back to...M35, I think? Didn't involve warp travel using a normal ship's drive though, but rather the malfunction of a major artifact that allowed personal travel through space.

For gameplay purposes I'd imagine that a theoretical homebrew travel time variation table ought to operate more on a scale of days, hours, or (with severe failures) weeks. Entire years of variation should probably be a very rare, very unpleasant occurrence. That can derail the thrust of an entire campaign.

[shadow_archmagi]

RT does indeed include rules for warp travel. Essentially, they work like this:

1. Navigator rolls dice to see how well he's navigating
2. Roll to see how long journey takes, modified by Navigator
3. Every two weeks, Navigator rolls to avoid having an encounter. If an encounter happens, roll on the chart to find out what is going on.

[LeSwordfish]

The encounter charts are fairly minor things mostly, and the book makes a point that "you arrive two thousand years before you left" should never be random in-game.

[shadow_archmagi]

So yeah no, translation isn't especially dangerous- danger is a factor based on journey duration. You do waste a lot of time though, because preparing to translate is the better part of a day if I remember right, so making seven week-long jumps adds a week to your trip (Plus, without a navigator, you roll very poorly on Navigation tests, which further increases your journey's length)

EDIT: At least, by RAW. I'd also agree that warp translation shouldn't be super dangerous. Otherwise it'd make no sense that unnavigated ships, who are the most at risk, also make the shortest jumps!

[Blightedmarsh]

I seem to recall something out of the second arbiter novel that mentions translation being inherently dangerous.

[Squark]

To an extent, but from a narrative dimension, it really isn't. The real downside to calculated jumps is time. Now, rogue trader has to simplify the stuff to make it playable, of course, but the general rule of thumb is that a calculated jump takes about a year in realspace (significantly). The nearest potentially habitable planet to Earth that we know of is 3 calculated jumps away. That's three years to ship anything. The next closest planet is 5 calculated jumps away. 5 years is an enormous amount of time to wait for something you asked for to arrive (The best real life comparison I can give you is the trip from Europe to America, which was.. maybe a month during the colonial period? I don't know exactly how long was typical, and I'm afraid I cant easily find out).

[LeSwordfish]

The england to america trip was "A few months." Six wasn't unusual, a year was possible in bad weather. To top it all off, the english didn't really care about the quality of what they were sending, so occasionally you'd wait six months for a mantlepiece and find it was eight inches too short or something.

[Grim Portent]

The england to america trip was "A few months." Six wasn't unusual, a year was possible in bad weather. To top it all off, the english didn't really care about the quality of what they were sending, so occasionally you'd wait six months for a mantlepiece and find it was eight inches too short or something.

And we wondered why they rebelled...

[MonochromeTiger]

And we wondered why they rebelled...

that, the other stuff that we're told about, and our confusion over the use of the letter U in words like honor or color that work fine without a U.

[Destro_Yersul]

that, the other stuff that we're told about, and our confusion over the use of the letter U in words like honor or color that work fine without a U.

Only because you pronounce them wrong.

[bluntpencil]

Why remove the 'u' but leave in the silent 'h'?!

[shadow_archmagi]

Why remove the 'u' but leave in the silent 'h'?!

Look, if you wanted english to make sense, you'd start by removing the silent s in island, and making though and thought and through sound alike.

EDIT: On topic:

I still haven't decided how my ][ is going to react to the player's actions. They let the bad guy get away, and time is running out. The finale of the mission will be the bad guy's 2nd in command leading an attack on the hospital where one of the PCs is recovering from the loss of his arm. What I'd really like is to have there be a defined extraction point they're trying to reach, but given their performance, I'm not sure the ][ *would* be trying extract them at that point. Also, they weren't given a vox or any means of contacting him, so I'm not sure how that arrangement would be made.

[Destro_Yersul]

I still haven't decided how my ][ is going to react to the player's actions. They let the bad guy get away, and time is running out. The finale of the mission will be the bad guy's 2nd in command leading an attack on the hospital where one of the PCs is recovering from the loss of his arm. What I'd really like is to have there be a defined extraction point they're trying to reach, but given their performance, I'm not sure the ][ *would* be trying extract them at that point. Also, they weren't given a vox or any means of contacting him, so I'm not sure how that arrangement would be made.

Well, if they have any pull with local law enforcement, they could borrow a hospital vox and call those guys. Let the Arbites roll in with a Rhino or airlift them off the roof or something, and then they can talk to the big ][ once they're somewhere safe. Could even tie this into the thing with the planetary governor, if they haven't copped to that yet.

[shadow_archmagi]

Well, if they have any pull with local law enforcement, they could borrow a hospital vox and call those guys. Let the Arbites roll in with a Rhino or airlift them off the roof or something, and then they can talk to the big ][ once they're somewhere safe. Could even tie this into the thing with the planetary governor, if they haven't copped to that yet.

Well, the thing is that it's a hive city. "Roof" and "Ground Floor" don't really exist, since the whole spire is one big, well, spire. It'd be like if you got into trouble in the underdecks of a spaceship- you couldn't get airlifted out. The closest thing I could think of would be if the hospital were on the outside of the spire, there might be a window, and then you *could* have a shuttle waiting outside the spire.

I can see the hospital having some kind of quarantine mode that seals it off from normal levels, but then the players would still need to CHOOSE to seek out the vox and ask to be airlifted out the window, and I can't assume that's their default plan, but I also can't think of a mechanism for nudging them in the right direction.

[Grim Portent]

Well, the thing is that it's a hive city. "Roof" and "Ground Floor" don't really exist, since the whole spire is one big, well, spire. It'd be like if you got into trouble in the underdecks of a spaceship- you couldn't get airlifted out. The closest thing I could think of would be if the hospital were on the outside of the spire, there might be a window, and then you *could* have a shuttle waiting outside the spire.

I can see the hospital having some kind of quarantine mode that seals it off from normal levels, but then the players would still need to CHOOSE to seek out the vox and ask to be airlifted out the window, and I can't assume that's their default plan, but I also can't think of a mechanism for nudging them in the right direction.

I bet you five thrones that after the session you'll be asking us what suitable punishment under Imperial Law is for blowing up a hospital.

If they're anything like either of the two groups I game with then they may just try to reinforce a position and kill anyone who apporaches.

[Cheesegear]

I bet you five thrones that after the session you'll be asking us what suitable punishment under Imperial Law is for blowing up a hospital.

Probably a little less than blowing up an Arbites' Precinct. Which my players did.

[Another_Poet]

In the rarest of circumstances, sometimes a ship emerges in realspace "before" it actually departed. In traveling through the warp to their destination, they were somehow shunted into the past as well. That's just how screwed up the warp is.

This seems like something worth exploring.

Setup: a group of small ships are ordered to warp repeatedly, always to a destination within a few dozen kilometers of their starting point. Repeat thousands of times if needed. For safety, perhaps use drone ships.

When one finally reappears in realspace before it left, it has standing orders to destroy the earlier instance of itself. Theoretically this prevents it from existing and doing what it just did.

A nearby observation station records the results, if the universe doesn't end.

[Destro_Yersul]

Well, the thing is that it's a hive city. "Roof" and "Ground Floor" don't really exist, since the whole spire is one big, well, spire. It'd be like if you got into trouble in the underdecks of a spaceship- you couldn't get airlifted out. The closest thing I could think of would be if the hospital were on the outside of the spire, there might be a window, and then you *could* have a shuttle waiting outside the spire.

I can see the hospital having some kind of quarantine mode that seals it off from normal levels, but then the players would still need to CHOOSE to seek out the vox and ask to be airlifted out the window, and I can't assume that's their default plan, but I also can't think of a mechanism for nudging them in the right direction.

Well, hive cities do have streets, and occassionally roofs, on the buildings. Not so much in the underhive, but mid-hive and upper hive absolutely still have space for vehicles. How do you think the fancy sorts get about? Certainly you don't expect them to take Public Transit. Arbites, too. Unless you've set up this hive to specifically NOT have those things, then they should exist in some capacity.

[MonochromeTiger]

Well, hive cities do have streets, and occassionally roofs, on the buildings. Not so much in the underhive, but mid-hive and upper hive absolutely still have space for vehicles. How do you think the fancy sorts get about? Certainly you don't expect them to take Public Transit. Arbites, too. Unless you've set up this hive to specifically NOT have those things, then they should exist in some capacity.

are you implying it's possible for a noble or businessman to get around a hive without witchcraft? I'm fairly sure that goes against everything warhammer has taught us.

[bluntpencil]

are you implying it's possible for a noble or businessman to get around a hive without witchcraft? I'm fairly sure that goes against everything warhammer has taught us.

It taught me that they get carried around on litters by slaves.

[Destro_Yersul]

are you implying it's possible for a noble or businessman to get around a hive without witchcraft? I'm fairly sure that goes against everything warhammer has taught us.

Finest quality hovercars, old chap. It looks like sorcery, but the Mechanicus assure me it's not tech-heresy, so there's that.

[Cheesegear]

are you implying it's possible for a noble or businessman to get around a hive without witchcraft?

Best game I ever played was when only me and one other player could make it. We played a solo campaign based on Taxi Driver and The Fifth Element (which is just Taxi Driver in SPACE! anyway).

[The Glyphstone]

This seems like something worth exploring.

Setup: a group of small ships are ordered to warp repeatedly, always to a destination within a few dozen kilometers of their starting point. Repeat thousands of times if needed. For safety, perhaps use drone ships.

When one finally reappears in realspace before it left, it has standing orders to destroy the earlier instance of itself. Theoretically this prevents it from existing and doing what it just did.

A nearby observation station records the results, if the universe doesn't end.

Drone ships? Sentient Machines, like the Men of Iron that once nearly wiped out mankind? TECH HERESY! *blam*

Deliberately punching holes over and over in the barrier between realspace and the Immaterium in the same region, weakening it to where a major warp incursion or warp storm becomes incredibly likely? HERESY! *blam*

Encouraging rational, scientific thought via experimentation and repetition of controlled trials? HERESY! *Blam Blam BLAM BLAM Pew Pew PEw ZOOOOOOOORCH PHOOOOOOOM*

[shadow_archmagi]

Does anyone have any suggestions for interesting set pieces that could be found inside the terrifying hospital I'm planning to run? I mean, obviously at some point they'll have to venture into the inner workings and find the Arbitrary Whirling Blades and Lightning room as exists in all scientific establishments (Does anyone else remember that room from Half Life 1?) but I thought I'd be open to suggestions.

Their journey will take them from the lead chirugeon's office to the children's wing, but what exactly is between those two points is undecided.

[Grim Portent]

Does anyone have any suggestions for interesting set pieces that could be found inside the terrifying hospital I'm planning to run? I mean, obviously at some point they'll have to venture into the inner workings and find the Arbitrary Whirling Blades and Lightning room as exists in all scientific establishments (Does anyone else remember that room from Half Life 1?) but I thought I'd be open to suggestions.

Their journey will take them from the lead chirugeon's office to the children's wing, but what exactly is between those two points is undecided.

I'd suggest a break room or on-call room. Maybe with a vending machine in it.

[Another_Poet]

*Blam Blam BLAM BLAM Pew Pew PEw ZOOOOOOOORCH PHOOOOOOOM*

Really, only the drone ships are a stretch