Warhammer and WH40K RPGs II: Burning Witches, Heretics, and Fate

[LeSwordfish]

There are occasional games of WFRP on the board- it's not as popular as the 40K ones, but they do exist now and then.

[blacklight101]

Thats good to know. Thanks!

I know ive been reading one or two on the site and they seem much more the type of fantasy game I like, much more "low powered" than 3.5. At least more low powered than im used to reading or playing myself, but the relative fragility of the characters is almost refreshing. To a degree, anyway, but you do care for the few hp you have, for sure.

Now I just need to keep telling myself I dont need a sixth game.

[Demon 997]

I managed to not see this thread and posted my own (and have now asked for that to be deleted), but I'll repost here because it's the right place.

A few friends and I are thinking about starting a Dark Heresy Game. A few of us have done some roleplaying, but mostly at a cobbled together semi freeform system level. We might be able to get a slightly more experienced person to DM. I'm curious as to whether the playground thinks this is a good system to start people off on, as well as whether to get edition one or two, and which supplements are worth getting?

I also wonder about how both the system and groups deal with the fact that the players are working for a group with at least some chain of command, and pretty clear consequences for disobedience and failure. It also seems like the other systems in the family would have the same problem only more so.

Any other tips for a new group and DM? Good adventures to start with? At least one and possible two people won't know the lore well.

[shadow_archmagi]

A few friends and I are thinking about starting a Dark Heresy Game. A few of us have done some roleplaying, but mostly at a cobbled together semi freeform system level. We might be able to get a slightly more experienced person to DM. I'm curious as to whether the playground thinks this is a good system to start people off on, as well as whether to get edition one or two, and which supplements are worth getting?

I also wonder about how both the system and groups deal with the fact that the players are working for a group with at least some chain of command, and pretty clear consequences for disobedience and failure. It also seems like the other systems in the family would have the same problem only more so

Any other tips for a new group and DM? Good adventures to start with? At least one and possible two people won't know the lore well.

Hmm. I can't really speak to the edition war. I think most people will claim DH1 is vastly superior, because there's a bit of a controversy surrounding DH2.

Tips for DH in general are:

The chain of command is as firm or as loose as you like. Some groups have an Inquisitor who acts as a squad captain, assigning specific tasks and participating actively in pretty much everything. Other groups have an Inquisitor whose idea of mission briefing is "We are currently in orbit around Planet X. I think there might be something bad here. Now I'm going to leave so the ship captain can jettison this room. Safe landing and see you in six months!"

Likewise, what the consequences of failure are varies wildly too. If the party's objective is to acquire an ancient tome, and they don't, maybe that means the enemy summons a daemon and the Imperial counterattack destroys the planet, and the Inquisitor has half the party execute the other half. Maybe it turns out to just be a clue to the *real* macguffin, and now the party is a little behind, and because they need the help, the inquisitor makes sure to keep a closer eye on them and gives extra support the next mission.

[Prince Raven]

I consider the chain of command to be more of a feature than a problem. The players not only know that there will be consequences to their actions, but they know exactly which powerful and terrifying individual will be doling out the rewards/punishments.

As for which edition, I'll recommend the original beta version of 2nd edition, because its awesome and I'm biased. The major selling points of the beta are much less restrictive character creation and advancement, an action point system in combat rather than move/standard/reaction, and a narrative wounds mechanic rather than an HP bar.

First edition is also a good choice, particularly if you're less knowledgeable about the setting, due to all the supplementary material available. The 3 supplements I'd recommend the most are the Inquisitor's Handbook and Radical's Handbook and Disciples of the Dark Gods (the latter two are more for the GM than the players). Creatures Anathema is useful if you want to run a Xenos heavy campaign.

[Destro_Yersul]

As for which edition, I'll recommend the original beta version of 2nd edition, because its awesome and I'm biased. The major selling points of the beta are much less restrictive character creation and advancement, an action point system in combat rather than move/standard/reaction, and a narrative wounds mechanic rather than an HP bar.

I don't consider any of these to be a selling point, so I advocate for 1st edition. The supplements Prince Raven recommends are all great, and I'd like to say that Book of Judgement and Lathe Worlds are both good as well, though a little more limited in scope and less limited in terms of power level. There are some very strong options in those books, but if you're careful with handing out goodies they're great fun.

[Anonymouswizard]

I haven't played 2e, but I suggest 1e for the following reasons:

• The psychic power system has a more granular risk vs. reward feature than the other games.
• From what I hear second edition has had poor editing with the sections taken from only war. This may or may not concern you.
• The setting from 1e seems to be more stable than 2e, in that you're more likely to run across civil unrest than a planet planning to become independent.
• The careers are broad and represent a category of people the Inquisition would want (the cleric is any sort of minister, guardsman any grunt, arbitrator any officer of the law, adept any scholar or beuracrat, scum any lowlife), the only thing missing in my opinion is the ability to play a navigator.
• It has a nicer cover. This may or may not bother you.

Out of interest, is there any way to get the 2e beta legally?

[Prince Raven]

Unfortunately there is no longer any way you can get the beta except from those who already have it.

[LCP]

I run 2 WFRP2 games on this board (see sig), but they do seem to be pretty rare.

[Squark]

*blows metaphorical dust off Rogue Trader PDF*

So, I'm building an arch militant for a pbp game, and had a few questions I didn't want to clog up the recruitment thread with.

1)For a point man turned bodyguard, would you spend your starting XP on the Guardian talent, or Awareness and Basic advances to BS, Ag, and S (Since I wear power armor, and don't want to get crushed by it when the power runs out)?
2) Currently, I have a good craftsmanship hellgun. Does anyone have any recommendations for a weapon to shoot for in my first actual acquisition rolls? A Meltagun? A heavy flamer (Hand of war gave me training)? A storm bolter, so I have a good general purpose weapon that doesn't use 10 kg power packs?
3) Weapon Master choices are pistol, basics, heavy, or melee, correct?

EDIT: More questions!

4) If master of arms is already taken, what's a good ship role for an Arch-militiant? The game is using them, but I don't own into the storm (yet)
5) Aside from making me hulking and the power supply only lasting 1d5 hours, are there any other disadvantages to power armor? I seem to remember there being more (and Space Marines ignoring them thanks to the black carapace)
6) Regarding that 1d5 hours thing- Are military grade capacitors for Power armor in a splat book?
7) Unlike every other starting talent or skill, the Arch Militant's first Sound Constitution talent (that they get as they start out) is not in their Rank 1 advance table. So, once I reach rank 2, can I only take 2 more Sound Constitutions, or 3? (Checked the errata, doesn't say they should have it in the advances table)

[TimeWizard]

[Death Watch]
Rolling up my Carcharodon Librarian tonight: Haka Heke, Tidecaller. Any tips or advice for building him? Optimal talents/skills/stats? We have a big group so I know that Techmarine, Devastator, and Apothecary will be covered. Plus 2 others who haven't decided yet.

I will probably start with a Chainfist, but I'm interest in a Power Weapon (ideally something like a harpoon or spear, to fit the Space Maori theme I'm going with). Are these good investments? I've never played DW before.

[Grim Portent]

*blows metaphorical dust off Rogue Trader PDF*

So, I'm building an arch militant for a pbp game, and had a few questions I didn't want to clog up the recruitment thread with.

1)For a point man turned bodyguard, would you spend your starting XP on the Guardian talent, or Awareness and Basic advances to BS, Ag, and S (Since I wear power armor, and don't want to get crushed by it when the power runs out)?
2) Currently, I have a good craftsmanship hellgun. Does anyone have any recommendations for a weapon to shoot for in my first actual acquisition rolls? A Meltagun? A heavy flamer (Hand of war gave me training)? A storm bolter, so I have a good general purpose weapon that doesn't use 10 kg power packs?
3) Weapon Master choices are pistol, basics, heavy, or melee, correct?

EDIT: More questions!

4) If master of arms is already taken, what's a good ship role for an Arch-militiant? The game is using them, but I don't own into the storm (yet)
5) Aside from making me hulking and the power supply only lasting 1d5 hours, are there any other disadvantages to power armor? I seem to remember there being more (and Space Marines ignoring them thanks to the black carapace)
6) Regarding that 1d5 hours thing- Are military grade capacitors for Power armor in a splat book?
7) Unlike every other starting talent or skill, the Arch Militant's first Sound Constitution talent (that they get as they start out) is not in their Rank 1 advance table. So, once I reach rank 2, can I only take 2 more Sound Constitutions, or 3? (Checked the errata, doesn't say they should have it in the advances table)

1) Guardian seems more appropriate.

2) Tau guns are pretty nice, accurate to stupidly long ranges and do nice damage. Bonus points for heresy. Failing that a combi-sniper/bolter wouldn't be bad.

3) Yes.

4) If bodyguard isn't accepted how about twystcatcher? Your job is to round up mutants, cull deck vermin (the talking kind) and oversee the assembly of the slave gangs that do stuff like loading ship guns.

5) No other penalties, though I personally think that Heavy Power Armour and Power Lifter Armour are both better. EDIT: Just remembered that there's a penalty to Silent Move and Concealment tests for armour with a value of 7 or higher. So you'll be less sneaky while in your power armour.

6) No.

7) I think it's just a bonus one independent of their advances table, so 3 I guess.

[NoldorForce]

[Death Watch]
Rolling up my Carcharodon Librarian tonight: Haka Heke, Tidecaller. Any tips or advice for building him? Optimal talents/skills/stats? We have a big group so I know that Techmarine, Devastator, and Apothecary will be covered. Plus 2 others who haven't decided yet.

I will probably start with a Chainfist, but I'm interest in a Power Weapon (ideally something like a harpoon or spear, to fit the Space Maori theme I'm going with). Are these good investments? I've never played DW before.

Just stick with your Force weapon, since those are engines of murder even more so than the mighty Chainfist/Powerfist. (Pester your GM about reflavoring it if you wish; the game does not treat spears much differently than swords.) As for talents, go for Frenzy/Mental Rage at the least. Carcharodons are one of only two chapters which get the native ability to Frenzy and still Focus Power with those talents, and the other chapter is the Flesh Tearers (which have their own far greater issues).

[blacklight101]

(Wfrp)

It's too bad games are rare, it really does look like a cool system. Character generation has been a blast, its a great set of random tables.

I took a look at the Bloody Crown on your prompt, I gotta say, i'm hooked. I stayed up way too late reading a bunch of it. I swear, I am near picking a favorite character too.

[TimeWizard]

Just stick with your Force weapon, since those are engines of murder even more so than the mighty Chainfist/Powerfist. (Pester your GM about reflavoring it if you wish; the game does not treat spears much differently than swords.) As for talents, go for Frenzy/Mental Rage at the least. Carcharodons are one of only two chapters which get the native ability to Frenzy and still Focus Power with those talents, and the other chapter is the Flesh Tearers (which have their own far greater issues).

Took the Halberd of a marysue Grey Knight for my model. What do Frenzy and Mental rage do? I don't have the books with me.

[comicshorse]

(Wfrp)

It's too bad games are rare, it really does look like a cool system. Character generation has been a blast, its a great set of random tables.

I took a look at the Bloody Crown on your prompt, I gotta say, i'm hooked. I stayed up way too late reading a bunch of it. I swear, I am near picking a favorite character too.

I'm a WFRP fan but things don't look good for its future now FF have abandoned the licence and nobody seems to be going to pick it up ( not helped by GW doing things like threatening to sue the fan publication 'Warpstone' unless they shut down)

[NoldorForce]

Took the Halberd of a marysue Grey Knight for my model. What do Frenzy and Mental rage do? I don't have the books with me.

Frenzy gives you a bunch of helpful bonuses (like WS, WP, and a few immunities) with a handful of drawbacks (revving yourself up for a turn, unable to parry/Focus Power/retreat, and BS/Int penalties). Mental Rage is a talent which removes the inability to Focus Power while Frenzied, and which thus allows you to be an engine of psychic destruction. (There's also Battle Rage, which removes the inability to parry while Frenzied, but by default Carcharodons can't get access without an Elite Advance.)

Also I checked back in the core book and apparently standard Blood Angels can also Frenzy/Mental Rage/Battle Rage.

[Kris Strife]

Is there any sort of name generator for Warhammer 40k weapons? I've recently realized at least some of my arch-militant's gear should have names.

[LCP]

I swear, I am near picking a favorite character too.

Brother Odo!

I'm a WFRP fan but things don't look good for its future now FF have abandoned the licence and nobody seems to be going to pick it up ( not helped by GW doing things like threatening to sue the fan publication 'Warpstone' unless they shut down)

I think the WFRP community is small but resilient. It survived in the long gap between 1E and 2E, and there were a lot of people (myself included) who stuck with 2E when 3E came out anyway.

[Tychris1]

I've always wanted to play WFRP, but my two favorite Warhammer Armies (Vampire Counts and Skaven) are not very popular amongst games. I'd jump aboard a game that permitted Necromancy or crazy rat-men soldiers in an instant. 3E Seems to have some necromnacy in it, but still no playable Skaven.

[comicshorse]

Green Ronin did a sourcebook for Skaven, 'Children of the Horned Rat' which gave details on their society and ideas to play a Skaven campaign as I remember

[Tychris1]

Green Ronin did a sourcebook for Skaven, 'Children of the Horned Rat' which gave details on their society and ideas to play a Skaven campaign as I remember

No, I know the option for Skaven exist it's just that no one in the small WRFP community wants to use them.

[Elurindel]

As far as most common WFRP races are concerned, Skaven don't exist

[Tychris1]

As far as most common WFRP races are concerned, Skaven don't exist

Doesn't make it any less annoying.

[blacklight101]

Brother Odo!

Actually, I really did like Brother Odo. As a story, that one is a page-turner for sure, between the boys' naps, I can't stop reading it. I can chalk up two more embarrassingly late nights reading it too. I'm almost to thread three now.

Oh, and Herr Klammenberg too, I like him. Loving Mirino and a good handful of the people there. I can't wait til they get to the ruins. if the kids go to sleep soon, it will probably be another long night devouring this story.

[Destro_Yersul]

Actually, I really did like Brother Odo. As a story, that one is a page-turner for sure, between the boys' naps, I can't stop reading it. I can chalk up two more embarrassingly late nights reading it too. I'm almost to thread three now.

Oh, and Herr Klammenberg too, I like him. Loving Mirino and a good handful of the people there. I can't wait til they get to the ruins. if the kids go to sleep soon, it will probably be another long night devouring this story.

The ruins are Fun. I haven't been able to keep up with that game as much as I'd like, sadly.

Brother Odo is great.

[Demon 997]

So I think my group is going to go with 2E, but I am taken by some of the better bits of 1E. Character creation seems simpler, and at least less initially overwhelming.

Could someone explain how requisition works in practice? Because the way 2E explains it feels totally confusing. You roll against an item's scarcity with relevant modifiers, but past that they'res no cost? Or do you keep track of cash at all?

[Prince Raven]

The idea is using requisition tests as an abstraction for all the bartering, coin trading, etc. going on, as they don't feel like money tracking adds all that much to the game. Personally, I use requisition tests and don't keep track of currency beyond saying *no, you can't afford your own battle-barge".

[blacklight101]

The ruins are Fun. I haven't been able to keep up with that game as much as I'd like, sadly.

Brother Odo is great.

Yet another embarrasingly late night reading led me through the ruins and back to Mirino. I swear I was only a little worried for them a couple times. Seighard is one lucky guy sometimes too.

[LeSwordfish]

Could someone explain how requisition works in practice? Because the way 2E explains it feels totally confusing. You roll against an item's scarcity with relevant modifiers, but past that they'res no cost? Or do you keep track of cash at all?

You've got it right- there's no currency to keep track of at all.