Warhammer and WH40K RPGs II: Burning Witches, Heretics, and Fate

[Ceiling_Squid]

Once again, setting fluff doesn't always match game mechanics.

I'd rule as a GM that repeated summoning of daemons should be generating plot hooks galore. Weakening the veil between dimensions at that particular summoning point, attracting the attention of cultists...

Not to mention the fact that certain daemons will be drawn to these foolish mortals and seek to corrupt or kill them for their insolence. Maybe one demon would *linger* in some way even after apparently being destroyed (or trick them into thinking it was destroyed).

Instead of lining up like cattle to the slaughter, daemons should be hatching plots to subvert and trick this band of reckless sorcerers.

Creepy things should start happening. To those involved. Warpstuff is clingy.

Remember, your players are playing with fire (a constant theme in 40k when radical inquisitors are involved). Summoning daemons for study and questioning *is* a valid practice of daemonology, but usually it's conducted by Inquisitors under strict security and in very carefully maintained facilities. Everything has to be just so. One thing goes wrong and madness and death will follow.

If a GM is going to sit back and let the party effectively farm demons repeatedly without taking that as a cue to introduce an interesting plot complication or hook, he's missing an opportunity.

[Blightedmarsh]

Or he hasn't and it just hasn't become apparent ...yet. Tell me; is he rolling stuff or asking you to roll stuff when you are doing the summoning and not telling you what its for? Is he making notes whilst your doing it?

[Cheesegear]

So, I waited for those magic words..."I've got a lot of corruption now, I think this'll be my last Summoning." ...and I set my plan into motion.

I described their Summoning site; Basically, it was a place where 81 men and women died to protect their city gates from the Zombie Plague. Zombie blood and human blood is intermingled all up in the soil, the citizens of the planet have even set up a memorial park at the entrance of their city to remember The Intractable Eighty and their leader. The Psyker rolls a '3' for his Corruption, which brings his total to still, less than 31, no Mutations yet. The Summoning goes as planned, same as the others they've done - and seen - up until now.

...But nothing comes out.
"Do you think they know it's us? And they're not coming out 'cause we'll just banish and kill them?" the party starts making noise about fresh meat and awesomeness that awaits any Daemon that comes out...

Out comes their Inquisitor.
"Bull****!" One Pyniscience check later reveals that he's inside a Summoning circle and there is a Warpgate behind him, and, since you know he's a Psyker anyway (from previously), there's so much interference that a Psynisicence check reveals nothing.
"Acolytes, you can't keep summoning Daemons like this! The other Inquisitors are on to you! Did you honestly think that there'd be no consequences for this!?"
The party explains that they've done a whole bunch of research, besides, they knew this was a risk and they'd explained it to the Inquisitor before, when he signed off on it.
"Look at him!" the Inquisitor points to the Psyker, who is on the verge of developing Mutations "I can't let you continue this foolishness. I was wrong! Don't you see. I can't protect you anymore!"
The party explains - again - about their research. It's all good. They're not summoning Daemons to do anything wrong. They're summoning Daemons just to destroy them. Surely somebody in the Inquisition would find this useful!?
"Show me."
The party hands their research book over the Summoning circle into the Inquisitor's hands. He looks longingly at the cover of the book for a few seconds, strokes it, and smiles. As the Inquisitor smiles, and looks at them through his ice-blue eyes, a soul-crushing wave of despair washes over the party. You've just made a terrible mistake.

The Arbite player says "What?" then something in his face changes and he looks me straight in the eyes. "No. Nonononono. Don't you dare!"
A smile as big as the Sun is on my face as I can't help myself, and I continue talking.
"The Inquisitor takes your book in one hand, and with the other-"
"No!"
"**** you, [Cheesegear]!"
"If this is the Scriven King again I will cut you!"

"- the Inquisitor rips his face off, and taking your book of research into Nurgle Daemons and the Zombie Plague jumps back into the Warpgate, closing it behind him."

[String of expletives from the party.]
"Wait...81...That's nine by nine. God damn it! I hate you [Cheesegear]. We did all that work, only to have Tzeentch take it away...Wait...Has the Scriven King been our Inquisitor the whole time!?"
I shrug my shoulders. "You'll have to find that out, wont you?"
"This is why you're the GM, and we're a bunch of schmucks."

GMing successful.

[bluntpencil]

Their boss is going to be pissed, now.

They're screwed, big time. I really hope one of them has that Total Recall talent.

[Cheesegear]

They're screwed, big time.

They gave a book, to the Scriven(er) King. I'm fairly certain he owns them now. Or is that pwns?

[bluntpencil]

They gave a book, to the Scriven(er) King. I'm fairly certain he owns them now. Or is that pwns?

I think they're utterly damned, now. Unless they continue their idiocy and summon him again and trap the bastard.

But that's not going to happen. Unless he wants it to. They're done.

Best option is to try to remember what they wrote (hypno-crap could manage that, or even some psychic techniques), then become Oblationists by way of apology to the Imperium for their mother-of-all-screwups.

[Cheesegear]

their mother-of-all-screwups.

Their biggest mistake, was giving a Daemon of Tzeentch, a treatise on the Zombie Plague (something they'd been researching), and the powers, abilities, and ways to kill, Daemons of Nurgle (of which they'd been interrogating about the Zombie Plague, to further even more research).

Whatever the 'King is planning, it's not going to end well for followers of Nurgle - and that's kind of the point, isn't it?

[bluntpencil]

Their biggest mistake, was giving a Daemon of Tzeentch, a treatise on the Zombie Plague (something they'd been researching), and the powers, abilities, and ways to kill, Daemons of Nurgle (of which they'd been interrogating about the Zombie Plague, to further even more research).

Whatever the 'King is planning, it's not going to end well for followers of Nurgle - and that's kind of the point, isn't it?

They could salvage that, though. Gather info on the weaknesses of Tzeentch Daemons! And...

Yeah, they're toast soon. They'll be toast with frickin' tentacles.

Still, they could redeem themselves, if not their souls, if they become Oblationists on a crusade against the Scrivener King. But that requires that they be a special kind of mental.

[LeSwordfish]

"Good news, sir! We've, uh, we've laid the groundwork for a decisive blow against the followers of Nurgle."

[Grim Portent]

"Wait...81...That's nine by nine. God damn it! I hate you [Cheesegear]. We did all that work, only to have Tzeentch take it away...

[Cheesegear]

They could salvage that, though. Gather info on the weaknesses of Tzeentch Daemons!

The only 'weakness' so far they've managed to find out is that the Scriven King can't - or won't - use the same face twice, he likes books, and he hates Nurglites.
Clearly what they need to do is create a spell that, once read, self-binds the reader into that spot. Of course, that requires that the players willingly submit themselves into researching Sorcerery (instead of just cribbing from notes they've found off of other cultists) and Corruption, and, requires that they think of it.

The 'King has weaknesses. But, I wont tell my players that. At least, not yet.

The only thing I'm considering right now is whether or not the 'King did damage while wearing the Inquisitor's face (and all that implies), or, if it was a simple one-shot disguise to screw the party into giving up their research.

But that requires that they be a special kind of mental.

They've blown up an Arbites' precinct once, and they freely summoned Daemons of their own free will, FOR (psyni)SCIENCE! I'm sure if they want to go on a crusade against the 'King, they'll do it.

"Good news, sir! We've, uh, we've laid the groundwork for a decisive blow against the followers of Nurgle."

Which is what they're trying to do, really, in the long run. I just don't think they were planning on aiding followers of Tzeentch in the process.

By 'just as planned' I mean I only came up with it hours before the session. I couldn't think of anything other than 'The Inquisition is out to get you', then I realised it was a perfect time to bring back the BBEG in the last session of the year.


Solutions;
I think the Psyker could invest in Soul Sight from Divination. But, other than that, I can't think of anything. All of the good Talents that are even remotely helpful come at a minimum Rank 7 (and I've also ruled that the Psyker must pick up Dark Soul ASAP), and the party is only Rank 6. Although, I suppose at Rank 8, I could say "To get to Ascension, you need to beat the Scriven King." ...Although that's at least six months away.

Party is all Rank 6;
Arbite, Marshall path
Assassin, Freeblade path
Cleric, Exorcist (what else?)
Guardsman, Sniper path
Psyker, Scholar path


Are there any items that give True Sight - or similar?

[Dead_Jester]

Well, if they are extra heretic, which sadly doesn't (yet) seem the case, they might be able to salvage this by converting to Tzeench and conniving a dastardly plan to get their research back; the Great Schemer is probably the only one who would take them in at this point.

[Ceiling_Squid]

Oh Throne, that's glorious.

Now that's how you deal with a party that toys with the warp too much. Far exceeded my expectations.

Good thinking on the fly, Cheesegear. How terribly Tzeentchian of you. My hat's off. I'm anxious to hear more!

Now to convince them to become Oblationists. They've already blundered into becoming pawns of Chaos by error, now lets see if they willingly damn themselves. Go for broke!

[Cheesegear]

Good thinking on the fly, Cheesegear. How terribly Tzeentchian of you. My hat's off. I'm anxious to hear more!

I've always said that if my players are ever onto a good thing, then I'm GMing Dark Heresy wrong. If you want things to go right, play Rogue Trader or Deathwatch.

For reference, here's how I invented him. Originally subverting a Nurgle Mutant cult for his own use and destroying the lives of a Slaaneshi cult. Although I did end up getting rid of the Hydra Cult angle.

The Hydra Cult implies something larger. I just want it to be the 'King. He's much more evil that way.

[Prince Raven]

Cheesegear, that was fantastic, I think I love you.

[Grim Portent]

I've decided to pull my psyker out of RT since the GM is letting us replace our characters after the holiday break is over, and I'm trying to decide on a fun character to bring in to the game. So far my ideas are:

Space Paladin: A missionary focused on melee combat. Greatweapon, plate armour, charm coming out his ears. Hates orks with a passion. In my current build for him he's Size (Hulking) and quite tough and fast moving.

Dashing Rogue: A rogue trader with an emphasis on wit, sleight of hand and a mild skill with swords. Basically yet another take on Jack Sparrow in space. Doesn't get along well with the Imperial Navy, is good at picking pockets and talking to people and loves to do both.

Engine of Flesh: An explorator who really takes to the idea that the flesh is not weak. Another melee combatant (I happen to like them.) with a focus on his modifications. The Machine of Flesh talent is a bit weirdly written but I think that my interpretation is correct, which results in this concepts build having wings, multiple arms and a strength and toughness score that are through the roof, though I can always boost higher.

I don't suppose anyone could suggest any fun ideas for characters other than what I've got here?

[FlyingScanian]

Well, I finally got to DM Shattered Hope (free Dark Heresy intro) for (most of) my group. Good news: they liked it as an alternative to 3.5. Bad news: they want to play more, so I need to scrounge up a campaign... erm, help? Any good suggestions? Either pregen (they can always get adapted) or a good campaign idea, suitable for Rank 1/2 Acolytes, most of which are not overly familiar with the 40k universe...

[Destro_Yersul]

So, I waited for those magic words..."I've got a lot of corruption now, I think this'll be my last Summoning." ...and I set my plan into motion.

GMing successful.

Things which are wonderful include this post.

Well, I finally got to DM Shattered Hope (free Dark Heresy intro) for (most of) my group. Good news: they liked it as an alternative to 3.5. Bad news: they want to play more, so I need to scrounge up a campaign... erm, help? Any good suggestions? Either pregen (they can always get adapted) or a good campaign idea, suitable for Rank 1/2 Acolytes, most of which are not overly familiar with the 40k universe...

I recommend Necrons. I waited for rank 3 to drop those on my acolytes, but it's never too soon for undead robots, I always say.

On a more serious note, start with something small, maybe flip through a handful of the pregen stuff on FFG's website. There's one official thing, plus some fan-made stuff. (Found here) What other books do you have, besides the core book? Many of the splats have ideas in them.

[Leon]

Time for a new book. Should I get Only War or Black Crusade. Can only afford one for now and both interest me.

So some thoughts on them comparatively would be nice

[Prince Raven]

Well, I finally got to DM Shattered Hope (free Dark Heresy intro) for (most of) my group. Good news: they liked it as an alternative to 3.5. Bad news: they want to play more, so I need to scrounge up a campaign... erm, help? Any good suggestions? Either pregen (they can always get adapted) or a good campaign idea, suitable for Rank 1/2 Acolytes, most of which are not overly familiar with the 40k universe...

Maybe try Edge of Darkness to give them a better idea of what Dark Heresy is really about; investigation not dungeon crawling.

[LeSwordfish]

Time for a new book. Should I get Only War or Black Crusade. Can only afford one for now and both interest me.

So some thoughts on them comparatively would be nice

Only War is JUST Imperial Guardsmen: it's not bad, it's just that there's only one thing you can do with it, and if you don't want to do that, it's unnecessary.

[MonochromeTiger]

Only War is JUST Imperial Guardsmen: it's not bad, it's just that there's only one thing you can do with it, and if you don't want to do that, it's unnecessary.

indeed, the most interesting thing you could do with only war is play a commissar. with black crusade you can play a chaos space marine whose madness makes them THINK they're a commissar and that all their enemies are unloyal troops.

[Ulm11]

Is there any reason to use power blades in Black Crusade brides fluff reasons?

[Grim Portent]

Not many reasons, though if you have access to stuff from outside BC then it becomes a nice weapon to put into a concealed weapon implant.

[shadow_archmagi]

I'm really surprised you used the old "Daemon pretends to be something else" trick on them and it worked. I'm pretty sure my party would assume anything inside a summoning circle is a daemon until proven otherwise.

[Cheesegear]

I'm pretty sure my party would assume anything inside a summoning circle is a daemon until proven otherwise.

First word they said when he came out was 'bulls*'.
Psyniscience didn't work.
He couldn't reach them from where he was, so, using his connection with them because they had his Rosette, he waited for them to open up a Gate, made his own, stepped through.

Then I started yelling at them and panicking. It seemed to make them panic 'cause I said Inquisitors were on their way to kill the party. Seemed legit.

What surprised me though, is that nobody ever even rolled a single die.

[Leon]

OK, sounds like BC is the more interesting option to get. Still easily cross compatible with the others for gear and such?

[Grim Portent]

OK, sounds like BC is the more interesting option to get. Still easily cross compatible with the others for gear and such?

Yes, all the gear works on the same exact system. Several skills and talents got altered or renamed though so things like jump packs which need Pilot (Personal) now need Operate (Aeronautica) and so forth.

[dupersudi]

So I'm fairly new to WH40kRPGs but I'm liking the system and love the universe, and have decided to DM Dark Heresy for a bunch of people who are even less experienced with them, and have little knowledge of the universe. I'm planning on more or less railroading them through the initial recruitment/transit to their first mission and then letting them loose to do whatever they can think of. Due to everybody's unfamiliarity with the system I don't know what I actually need to have on hand. Should I pregenerate a load of critters/badguys or wing it for example?

The setting is going to be fairly standard Calixian sector, though their first adventures are going to be against an expanded Eldar Corsair fleet.

Any advice would be appreciated, I haven't been a DM for years, and then it was only Modules.

Also I haven't been able to find a Dark Heresy sheet generator site, something like Mythweavers.

[shadow_archmagi]

Unfortunately Dark Heresy is largely bereft of a good character generator- There are some excel sheets floating around, but even those are clunky as the warp.

I'd say for low levels of system mastery all around you can probably get by with using the closest-approximation NPC from the back of the book- Nobody needs to know they weren't pregenned.

One thing I *do* strongly suggest is acquiring a seperate copy of the talent summary page. (This is the 40KRPG's biggest flaw, I feel- Characters tend to have piles and piles of talents, so if you pull up the example Eldar soldier they've got like eight talents and you're left there like "What are Catlike Reflexes, Improved Runfast, Scent of the Wind, Pointy Ears, Precise Shot, Adaptive Agility, Wraithbone Attuned, and Master Swordsman?"

I DIDN'T CLOSE THE PARENTHESIS JUST TO GIVE YOU A SENSE OF UNRESOLVED TENSION)