"Because my life sucks"

[Lysander]

Cliches are relative. Here we have a cliche gamer forced to encounter a real world based on his fantasy game cliches. It's really an examination of cliches and I think it's a pretty interesting concept. I'm excited to see where it goes. And I've said cliches far too many times in this post. Cliche cliche cliche cliche

[sunbeam]

Geez come on.

Assuming it's not some trick kind of thing where you would have to go a fantasy world as a commoner, can you honestly say you'd stay on earth?

If I could go to one as say a sorcerer I'd go in an instant. More dangerous, but face it this world isn't perfectly safe either. What are you going to miss? American Idol? Health care? If you are American and don't have GOOD health insurance you don't get much in the way of that anyway.

Personally I hope the guy kicks all kinds of tail in that world. Odds are you didn't find this site in the first place if you weren't heavily into escapism anyway.

[Jorkens]

I think in this case the whole "fat miserable no-life geek" thing should be taken more as brutal honesty rather than as a stereotype. It seems kind of patronizing to me to suggest that the main character should always be presented as a superior specimen of whatever group he represents. If this guy was a bit character in a bad Hollywood movie, I might see the problem, but here he's a main character, and as such has decent room for development.

I think that's the point, innit. So far we've just seen him as a stereotypical gaming nerd, but as the central character you'd hope that we're going to see him as a reasonably complex and three dimensional character who just happens to appear to be a stereotypical gaming nerd on first inspection.

[Darth Paradox]

Note also, that of the group of five gamers, he's probably the one most dissatisfied with his life, and most desirous of an escape from the real world. His reasons for wanting to escape into the game, and therefore his wish to do so, and therefore his suitability as a target for this spell, are stronger than those of any of the other real-world characters we met.

The story would not, in my opinion, be as strong had the teleported character been socially adept with a good job, a spouse, children, etc... i.e. all the things that would lessen one's desire to escape the real world.

[Radar]

Well... it never is about being highly original or not while choosing personalities of the characters.
1. They were looking for a perfect warlord - someone truly dedicated to war and tactics. Someone, who doesn't have any other interests - Parson meets requierments idealy.
2. The art of building a character is visible rather in small details that give them life. We've seen by now only few strips, so we don't know Parson that good yet to see them.
3. Erfworld is very similar to our war games (all those turns, move points etc.), so it is obvious, that a perfect warlord would be a gamer.

And there are also some details that i really enjoyed: Lord Stanley wanted a guy, "who snacks on gwiffons and eats Marbits for breakfest" and here you go.

Read carefully all the Lords Stanley'a requests - they describe excactly someone like Parson although with a bit twisted meaning (gaming versus real war for example).

[Erk]

Also, one might argue that Parson was in a sense "created" by the spell scanning infinite possible universes and settling on the easiest, most efficient answer to the criteria. Had Wanda been an actually findamancer the spell probably would have settled on a more "successful" warlord, but she is a croakamancer. But that is a bit divergent from this topic.

[GypsyThorn]

I'm actually looking forward to what happens next. To me it sounds like a nice flip-side of the "fish out of water" scenario. In this case, Parson is a fish out of water in his home multiverse, and very much the opposite in the multiverse into which he's being summoned.

[sunbeam]

I haven't really liked this strip too much. I'm interested in it now. It's an idea that's been used several times in fantasy literature, but not with a power gamer as best as I know. And they may actually do something really good with it, I haven't seen it done (modern day human to fantasy world) in a way that totally satisfied me before.

Erfworld may be in for a very nasty shock. God help them.

[Erk]

I'm actually looking forward to what happens next. To me it sounds like a nice flip-side of the "fish out of water" scenario. In this case, Parson is a fish out of water in his home multiverse, and very much the opposite in the multiverse into which he's being summoned.

That is a really good point... I had thought of it but not so directly. Now that you put it succintly it is very clear.

[Radar]

And now it occured to me, that there is one more thing about this situation: "How would you feel, if your dream comes true?" Literally

Parson wanted to find himself in a fantasy world and to be a real warlord, but time will tell if he really will like his situation.

[PePe QuiCoSE]

ok, i haven't read all the topic through, but just read the comic!

read how stanley the plaid describes his warlord and how it simply fits into the cohoerence of the storyline (with a plus of firebaugh not being a findmancer).

and just for kicks, i'm gonna quote the annoying dwarf:

"I want a big guy"
"I want him to be obsessed with war. Somebody who who plans wars and kills his foes for fun"
"I want a guy who snacks on gwiffons and eats Marbits for breakfast"
"He's gotta speak the language. Breath air and things"
"Everything should be familiar and safe to him. No crazy surprises"
"Just make him BIG, okay?"

unlucky wording for the Plaid, and not having the proper 'mancer, but it just fits too much the kind of guy he wants. Just read the quotes twice if it still doesn't click you how everything points out to the kind of person parson is. So, that cliché thing is not used to just shave up the storyline for it being weak, but consistent with the worlds logic. If you wanted a different warlord, you'd need to have a different Overlord -> different story -> different webcomic.

So, IMO, your disgust in the "stereotype" is your own lack of being able to see the story as a whole.

Guess this has already been discussed earlier, but oh wel... there it goes

[Madalin]

I'm a fat miserable no-life geek.

Well, not really fat. It's just that most of my weight seems concentrated in certain places in the form of "fat". I'm not actually overweight.

But anyways, I -like- it this way. Having friends, socializing, having a normal life, bah, too much work for too little reward, for me.

[TimeWizard]

Most of us can relate to Parson, on some level or another. Thats what a good protagonist usually is, someone you can relate to. Haven't we all, no matter who, wished to be someone else at somepoint in their life? or to lead a different life? If anyone can answer no to that statement then you are truely a unique individual.

[BabbageCliolog]

Ok, so I've re-read the strips and while I don't like the background of Parson, I'm getting used to the strip and enjoying it more than not.

Yes, sometimes things can grow on you.

/BC

[Zeku]

Why is everyone taking the OP so seriously?

It's very typical of the 'haves' to attribute the shortcomings of the 'have-nots' to the 'have-nots' own personal flaws or poor decisions. That absolves the 'haves' from any personal responsibility for the welfare of others.

Furthermore, any post that ends with a positive description of oneself cannot be interpreted in any fashion except boasting, and at worst, insecurity.

We aren't the judge of the OP, but neither is he the judge of others. In other words, this is trolling, probably unintentional. It should be ignored.

[Maurog]

What do you mean why? Look at his post, there are smilies everywhere! It has smilies, therefore it must be taken seriously!

[BabbageCliolog]

I'm the original poster.

It's very typical of the 'haves' to attribute the shortcomings of the 'have-nots' to the 'have-nots' own personal flaws or poor decisions. That absolves the 'haves' from any personal responsibility for the welfare of others.

Parson himself admits on Page 16 "Because my life sucks. My car is a rolling bomb. My job feels like an endless training film. Nobody reads my webcomic. This place is a hole. A condemned hole. For squatter hobbits. And to be honest, I don't actually find any of that stuff interesting enough to change."

That spells out to me his shortcomings are due to his own personal flaws and poor decisions. At what point does he take personal responsibility for himself? Shouldn't he take responsibility for himself first? Should anyone be responsible for someone who isn't interested in changing his life? Should I care about someone who doesn't care about their own life?

Furthermore, any post that ends with a positive description of oneself cannot be interpreted in any fashion except boasting, and at worst, insecurity.

So, *anyone* who says *anything* good or positive about himself is boasting or insecure? No other options are available, like pride in accomplishments, facts about their lives, or any other possibility? Try looking up the logical fallacy of Bifurcation (It's also known as the "black and white" fallacy or "false dichotomy", bifurcation occurs if a situation is presented as having only two alternatives, when in fact other alternatives can exist).

We aren't the judge of the OP, but neither is he the judge of others. In other words, this is trolling, probably unintentional. It should be ignored.

I thought "we aren't the judge" of others? Yet you then make a judgement of "this is probably trolling." I'm not trolling. I have issues with the Parson character. I may have not expressed myself the best, but I see no reason to ignore my post because you think it's a troll.

/BC

[pclips]

I'd just like to interject that the original poster is very much welcome and encouraged to express his opinions about the comic.

Parson is, and is meant to be, a flawed character. There's a reason we listed weaknesses as well as strengths in the bio section. It's perfectly legitimate to despise some of them for their weaknesses, and love others for their strengths. And perhaps you'll do both with some characters.

Our job as storytellers is to present you with characters who are worthy of discussion and debate. We like the arguments, as long as they're healthy and civil.

[Silverlocke980]

I'd just like to interject that the original poster is very much welcome and encouraged to express his opinions about the comic.

Parson is, and is meant to be, a flawed character. There's a reason we listed weaknesses as well as strengths in the bio section. It's perfectly legitimate to despise some of them for their weaknesses, and love others for their strengths. And perhaps you'll do both with some characters.

Our job as storytellers is to present you with characters who are worthy of discussion and debate. We like the arguments, as long as they're healthy and civil.

Good sir who forges Erfworld on a weekly basis:

Healthy and civli debates are not a part of internet culture...

But we'll try to keep 'em that way.

[BabbageCliolog]

I'd just like to interject that the original poster is very much welcome and encouraged to express his opinions about the comic.

Thanks! You are a class act!

Parson is, and is meant to be, a flawed character. There's a reason we listed weaknesses as well as strengths in the bio section. It's perfectly legitimate to despise some of them for their weaknesses, and love others for their strengths. And perhaps you'll do both with some characters.

Yes, Parson is a flawed character that I have a problem with. I like the rest of the comic so far and look forward to seeing how it turns out.

Our job as storytellers is to present you with characters who are worthy of discussion and debate. We like the arguments, as long as they're healthy and civil.

Hey, I like healthy and civil, too, and try to be that, so, again, thanks for the welcome and encouragement.

/BC

[BabbageCliolog]

Healthy and civil debates are not a part of internet culture...

But we'll try to keep 'em that way.

True, that. But we can change the culture, too, so here's to healthy and civil debate! Three cheers! :)

/BC

[Brianish]

Goin out on a limb here and guessing that you're pissed about the cliche because it's a cliche about your social group.

I've met a lot of gamers. Cliche or not, it's often accurate.

This is what the story's about. It would not be the same story with another main character. If you think it would be as good with a lawyer or something, go tell that story and prove it.

[BabbageCliolog]

Goin out on a limb here and guessing that you're pissed about the cliche because it's a cliche about your social group.

Your branch broke. 1) I'm not pissed, I just dislike the character of Parson. 2) It's not even close wrt my social group.

I've met a lot of gamers. Cliche or not, it's often accurate.

I've met a lot of gamers as well. The cat-piss man is the exception, not the rule. And most people remember the exceptions, rather than the majority. Most gamers I've met can hold a good job and have a life beyond gaming. YMMV, but my "experience sample" is not invalidated by your "experience sample," either.

This is what the story's about. It would not be the same story with another main character. If you think it would be as good with a lawyer or something, go tell that story and prove it.

Sure, I'll go do that and let you know.

/BC

[Harr]

You know, at first I agreed with this post. Parson's character is indeed a cliche, and an annoying cliche at that. Yet, a few posts later I read about how this type of cliche has actually not been done in this type of story yet. That got me thinking.

Have I seen "Stranger in a Strange World" done with a Gamer-Geek character before? Hmm. I've seen it done with a literature student. I've seen it done with a janitor. I've seen it done with a clueless child, I've seen it done with a genius scientist, I've seen it done with a computer programmer, I've seen it done with a psychotic schitzophrenic, I've seen it done with a pot smoker, I've seen it done with an astronaut, and with a musician, and with an engineer, and with a suicidally-depressed teen girl.

But... I have not seen it done with a Gamer-Geek. And you know what... that actually makes it interesting.

Cliches are not about whether you're using them or not. It's very easy for rookie literature-buffs to get hung up on "oh you used a cliche, cliches are bad" platitudes, but they miss the point of the concept entirely.

Cliches are about whether or not you use them in original ways. About whether you can take a tried, true, tired concept and breather even more life into it with a new twist. Gamer-geeks are a cliche. "Stranger in a Strange World" is a huge cliche, and also one of the Seven Stereotypical Stories along with "Reluctant Hero", "Rags to Riches", "Guy Loses Girl", and some others.

And yet, a Gamer-Geek inside of "Stranger in a Strange World"... well, maybe it has been done before (and if it has, I'd like to hear an example), but to me, it's original. And that makes it cool by my book.

[BabbageCliolog]

But... I have not seen it done with a Gamer-Geek. And you know what... that actually makes it interesting.

...

And yet, a Gamer-Geek inside of "Stranger in a Strange World"... well, maybe it has been done before (and if it has, I'd like to hear an example), but to me, it's original. And that makes it cool by my book.

It's been done before. I'll give you two examples:

Quag Keep by Andre Norton (1978) and Return to Quag Keep by Andre Norton and Jean Rabe (2005): D&D players sucked into Greyhawk as their characters.

The Sleeping Dragon (Book 1 of the Guardians of the Flame) by Joel Rosenberg (1983) plus 9 follow on books in the series: D&D players sucked into "fantasy world" as their characters.

/BC

[Need_A_Life]

Sad thing is that I do know a gamer like Parson... I don't speak to him much.

Erfworld is funny because it caters to my expectations, I have yet to see any plot development that wasn't 100% expected, the only unexpected things were jokes (like "PLOT!", "boob" and "Tool").

The reason Erfworld works is because, despite a much more refied type of art than Order of the Stick, the basic premise is the same. There is a simple part and an advanced part; with Order of the Stick, the art was simplified to let people focus on dialogue (and eventually, the plotline), Erfworld has fairly sophisticated art (compared to most online comics), but the plot and characters aren't exactly deep, but rather classical stereotypes.

Yes, it's stereotypical and cliché, but most anything is these days.

[Ilgivan]

If this turns out to be "just" another Guardians of the Flame, I for one won't object too much.

[Logos7]

Hate to tell people,

if all you had to do to change your lot in life was work hard and think positive we would be a nation ( or NOrth Amercias because im from canada) of successful rich people.

Vast Majority of People born in a Socioeconomic Bracket Die in that Bracket, no amount of counter examples will cut it until we reach the point where the counterexamples become significant to a scale of 100's of Millions.

Why work really hard to vaguely improve your lot in life when you can just hack it at the level your at. Unless the conditions are intolerable you wont, what is untolerable changes for indivudal but life is like this and has been for a couple thousand years.

Logos

[Erk]

Logos: the vast majority of people who live by that philosophy die by it. I was born to a lifestyle barely above abject poverty, at times with an annual income lower than the income of welfare recipients, maintained only because my parents don't believe in the welfare system and refused to use it. Since I have managed to become a successful degree holder, am making more money than I have ever seen before in my life doing a really fun job overseas, and am going for a medical doctorate when I get home - all based only on my own hard work - I have troubles sympathising with that argument. I am a statistical anomaly, but since I can clearly identify the source of my success (optimism and a willingness to apply myself to overcome the situation I was born into), I would say that the reason I am a statistical anomaly is that, statistically, not many people put much effort into their lives. They are content with the status quo because the can survive in it, as you said, so there is no motivation to sacrifice all the energy it takes to pursue something better.

Good thing they don't, because there would be a lot more competition for blokes like me then. But the issue isn't that it takes sheer luck to succeed, the issue is that at heart, most people don't really try to succeed. Only a few actually cannot do it.

But what a digression... this has little to do with Parson. I think we will find as the story progresses that Parson is a much more deep character than we give him credit for. I mean, come on! By strip 24, had the OOTS characters advanced beyond basic stereotypes? Hell, one could argue even now that most of them haven't. Give Erfworld its time to shine :) if you must, feel free to dislike Parson until given reason not to... I was a lot less fond of him before the Tool remark.

[BabbageCliolog]

Hate to tell people,

if all you had to do to change your lot in life was work hard and think positive we would be a nation ( or NOrth Amercias because im from canada) of successful rich people.

So, not working hard and not thinking positive is the way to go? Doesn't make sense to me. YMMV.

But I don't think that's the only things you have to do. You also have to learn. Educating yourself, working hard and thinking positive can change your life. It may not, but it *can.* That possibility is enough for me to do it.

Vast Majority of People born in a Socioeconomic Bracket Die in that Bracket, no amount of counter examples will cut it until we reach the point where the counterexamples become significant to a scale of 100's of Millions.

True, that, but does not mean you can't/shouldn't try to improve yourself or change your SEB.

Why work really hard to vaguely improve your lot in life when you can just hack it at the level your at. Unless the conditions are intolerable you wont, what is untolerable changes for indivudal but life is like this and has been for a couple thousand years.

So your point is why try to do something that improves your life? Why not? Even a "vague" improvement would still be an improvement.

Have you heard of the Bard Clemente Course? It's an effort to improve education for the poor, to introduce them to the great minds of our history and culture. Most participants agree that this knowledge improves their lives.

From the website: "The Bard College Clemente Course in the Humanities grew out of the disturbing fact that in our society many low-income residents have limited access to college education and no opportunity to study the humanities. The Clemente Course provides college level instruction in the humanities, with the award of college credits, to economically and educationally disadvantaged individuals at no cost and in an accessible and welcoming community setting. Participants study four disciplines: literature, art history, moral philosophy, and American history. Like their more affluent contemporaries, students explore great works of fiction, poetry, drama, painting, sculpture, architecture, and philosophy, while learning also about the events and ideals that define America as a nation. The course also offers instruction in writing and critical thinking, while the seminar style of the classes and dialectical investigation encourage an appreciation for reasoned dialogue."

and

"In evaluation of the program, participants report that their encounter with the humanities was intellectually and personally rewarding. Graduates indicate that the course has increased their self-esteem, level of aspiration, and confidence in ability to succeed at college work. Some students say that the course has helped them advance at work, while others explain that by opening new vistas the course has made them better parents with more to offer their children. Students who in the past have felt marginalized socially, politically, and educationally appreciate that they have acquired knowledge that enables interactions across class, racial, and generational lines; they feel included and privileged. Further, almost all graduates state that the course has increased their desire for further education."

/BC