"Because my life sucks"

[Aquillion]

Parson himself admits on Page 16 "Because my life sucks. My car is a rolling bomb. My job feels like an endless training film. Nobody reads my webcomic. This place is a hole. A condemned hole. For squatter hobbits. And to be honest, I don't actually find any of that stuff interesting enough to change."

That spells out to me his shortcomings are due to his own personal flaws and poor decisions. At what point does he take personal responsibility for himself? Shouldn't he take responsibility for himself first? Should anyone be responsible for someone who isn't interested in changing his life? Should I care about someone who doesn't care about their own life?

What are you talking about? He does take responsibility for himself. You just quoted him taking complete responsibility for how his life is going. I think, in fact, that that's one of his redeeming features: His life is messed up, yes, but he doesn't blame anyone else for it. He's brutally honest, both with himself and others--we've seen that same thing in his way of talking with Stanley and Wanda. He's intelligent and, when he talks to people, actually a decent conversationalist. In other words, he has good attributes that weren't necessarily obvious at first glance.

I think, also, that having a protagonist who hated his own life in this world will be necessary for the sort of story that the authors are telling. Someone who liked their life on earth and wanted to get back to it would be a completely different story, basically, from someone who embraces their new role and likes it there.

[BabbageCliolog]

What are you talking about? He does take responsibility for himself. You just quoted him taking complete responsibility for how his life is going.

He's not taking responsibility for himself. He's whining. "My life sucks." That's a whine. He then lists all the things that suck in his life and then can't be bothered to change them. That's not responsibility, that's whining.

He's not willing to step up and change his life, even for a "vague" improvement. No, he can't be bothered. Responsiblity involves recognizing and acting, IMNSHO. Sure, he may have recognized that his life sucks, but has he acted? If I get into a car accident, I can recognize that I struck another car, but if I flee the scene, am I being responsible? NOOOOO. A responsible person acts - they stay and talk to the police.

If he didn't care about those things (car, job, home), he wouldn't be whining "my life sucks." He wouldn't have started the monologue with "my life sucks."

Plus he's bored. He can't be bothered to change. Responsibility requires that you do even those things you think are boring. I pay my bills (the responsible thing to do) even though I would rather not be bothered. Do I still do it? Yes.

That's what I read by that statement, not responsibility, but whining. You can't have responsibility without some sort of action. YMMV.

/BC

[Aliquid]

If he didn't care about those things (car, job, home), he wouldn't be whining "my life sucks." He wouldn't have started the monologue with "my life sucks."

I disagree.

If someone asked me "why aren't you out playing sports?" I would respond "because I suck at sports". That wouldn't be a whine, it would be a simple statement of fact. Furthermore, I don't care. I have no desire to be better in sports because they are not important to me.

Parson saying "my life sucks" is a fact, and observation, a piece of information which is needed to properly explain why he spends so much time on his games.

[triffid]

Are you trying to say that because Parson is not a motivated, financially successful go-getter, he does not deserve to be a protagonist? It seems like that, and not anything to do with cliches, is what's churned up this Righteous Indignation.

[zeratul]

Lies!! Lies and Slander!!

No I get what you saying, however I think that the "stereotypical gamer" (as you would put it) overcoming adversity and being a hero (if this is what happens and it very well may not) is more powerful a message and image than atypical successful gamer saves the day. It shows that the stereotype, can overcome what is expected of him. Just my humble opinion.

Quoted for the Truth that would be a way better image.

[zeratul]

If I got sucked into Erfworld, I'd be in no hurry to get back; who's to say its not a "Lion, Witch and the Wardrobe" type thing (i.e., you come back at exactly the same time you left no matter how long you spend there)? :D

Thatd be Damn cool. Sept id force them all to sop using thos lisp things.

[BabbageCliolog]

Are you trying to say that because Parson is not a motivated, financially successful go-getter, he does not deserve to be a protagonist? It seems like that, and not anything to do with cliches, is what's churned up this Righteous Indignation.

Not in the least. I don't like the character as presented. The comic is growing on me, however, so I am enjoying it. And it's not Righteous Indignation (TM), its personal preference.

/BC

[BabbageCliolog]

I disagree.

If someone asked me "why aren't you out playing sports?" I would respond "because I suck at sports". That wouldn't be a whine, it would be a simple statement of fact. Furthermore, I don't care. I have no desire to be better in sports because they are not important to me.

Parson saying "my life sucks" is a fact, and observation, a piece of information which is needed to properly explain why he spends so much time on his games.

Ah, but "I suck at sports" only defines one aspect of your life. If you said "my life sucks" that would be a whine, IMNSHO. I, too, suck at sports, but I'm good at other things.

He's whining, IMNSHO.

/BC

[pclips]

Not in the least. I don't like the character as presented. The comic is growing on me, however, so I am enjoying it. And it's not Righteous Indignation (TM), its personal preference.

/BC

Oh, to be able to discuss my own comic as a fan. You might be surprised at what I'd say.

[ElfLad]

Oh, to be able to discuss my own comic as a fan. You might be surprised at what I'd say.

You'd pan it, wouldn't you? Every webcomic person I know of either sees their flaws more clearly than their readers, or doesn't see any of their flaws.

Judging by your Partially Clips commentary, you fall heavily into the former category.

[Indon]

Ah, but "I suck at sports" only defines one aspect of your life. If you said "my life sucks" that would be a whine, IMNSHO. I, too, suck at sports, but I'm good at other things.

He's whining, IMNSHO.

/BC

He's good at other things, too, and he's interested in those things.

They just don't have anything to do with his real life, which he's not really interested in.

[BabbageCliolog]

He's good at other things, too, and he's interested in those things.

They just don't have anything to do with his real life, which he's not really interested in.

But he says "my LIFE sucks." (my emphasis). Life = his total existance, car, job, social prospects, home, sex life, & etc ad nauseum.

So he's whining, IMNSHO.

He's a whiner-49er, and his darling Clementine!

/BC

[Aliquid]

But he says "my LIFE sucks." (my emphasis). Life = his total existance, car, job, social prospects, home, sex life, & etc ad nauseum.

It doesn't have to.

That's your definition of the term, but that doesn't mean it is his definition.

[TinSoldier]

Yeah, I still don't see it as whining. I've got kids. I know what whining is.

[Pyrian]

Right now, I'd categorize BabbageCliolog as whining. Parson? He was asked a question, and he answered it and moved on to his own priorities.

[BabbageCliolog]

It doesn't have to.

That's your definition of the term, but that doesn't mean it is his definition.

Those are the terms he used: work, car, job, life.

To me, that's his definition of the term.

/BC

[BabbageCliolog]

Right now, I'd categorize BabbageCliolog as whining. Parson? He was asked a question, and he answered it and moved on to his own priorities.

No, Parson waxed eloquent about how his life sucks. He did a soliloquy.

And how, exactly, am I whining? Which of the following?

whin·ing, noun
–verb (used without object)
1. to utter a low, usually nasal, complaining cry or sound, as from uneasiness, discontent, peevishness, etc.: The puppies were whining from hunger.
2. to snivel or complain in a peevish, self-pitying way: He is always whining about his problems.
–verb (used with object)
3. to utter with or as if with a whine: I whined my litany of complaints.
–noun
4. a whining utterance, sound, or tone.
5. a feeble, peevish complaint.

I'm not No. 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 or 5 . I have demonstrated neither peevishness (annoyance, irritation, bad mood, perverse or obstinate) nor self-pity.

Parson was at the very least No. 1 (discontent), 2 (complaint in a peevish, self-pitying way), and 3 (litany of complaints), by all definitions of the word Whine.

/BC

[Tokiko Mima]

I've been reading Erfworld and been enjoying it but the latest was TOO cliche : A misfit gamer, fat, with a crappy job, bad social skills, nothing successful going on in his life, taking 5 months to create a game and explaining to his friends why he does stuff because his life sucks and how he's not willing to change ANYTHING to improve his life so he escapes into his head because he can't hack living in the US. Why not make him a cat-piss man, too?

It would be great if:
a) the protagonist was a successful lawyer, loved by coworkers, with a wife and kids, drives a ferrari, and games with his buddies from the law firm every other friday. He's sucked into this great world and wants to get home to his wife and family and his NORMAL LIFE.

Or

b) Parson gets pulled in and killed immediately because he can't hack Erfworld any more than he can hack Earth, and as a result someone else becomes the greatest warlord.

or

c) the Pizza guy who is wanting to make something of himself by working his way through college shows up at the door and gets PLOT'ed into Erfworld in place of Parson.

I don't game with the fat misfit gamer. I haven't gamed with the misfit gamer since high school.

I've spent 5 months working on a game, too. Not to the exclusion of the rest of my life, but because I enjoyed it.

One of the guy's in my game group DOES drive a ferrari. Two others each have a wife and a kid. Another was in a rock-and-roll band for 10 years and now makes computer games. I'm an engineer that has a masters degree in physics. We all have jobs and lives besides gaming.

I'm just disappointed in the too obvious cliche. I don't know if I'll keep reading it.

/BC

So, Parson is lazy, self absorbed, rude, and obsessed with fruitless activities like webcomics and strategy games. That makes him an interesting character to me, because he has a lot of room to grow.

If I follow your suggestions, you seem to imply that the story would be better if a motivated, social, outgoing individual who gamed frequently was the lead. Just my opinion, but I think stories about people who are 'perfect' like that usually turn out rather flat. There's no room for character development if the character is fully developed.

I can understand you're upset by the stereotypical treatment of Parson Gotti, but I suspect that's going to be key to the story. Pason Gotti has to be the kind of person who would create a webcomic like Hamstard.com and I don't think a well balanced person would want to create something like that. (No offense to AZM and PClips! )