My Little Gramarist: SCIENCE! is Magic [Gramarie Discussion]

[qazzquimby]

I second bulk, I find the numbers realistic and very easy to remember.

[spikeof2010]

I haven't heard from KALD or IMACH, anyone doing them yet?

[Milo v3]

I haven't heard from KALD or IMACH, anyone doing them yet?

Ono-.... someone said they would be doing KALD, but I passed out so I wasn't able to ask any questions.

[Milo v3]

Akay, here is the current draft of ALCH.

Alchemetry
72

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"We're made of star-stuff."

Alchemetry is the careful application of magical charges to alter the fundamental properties of materials and objects. A master of alchemetry understands materials on a very deep level, and knows how to cause drastic changes with small applications of puissance. Any engineering project which calls for materials outside of the mundane requires someone skilled in alchemetry. Alchemetry was originally conceived as a scientific offshoot of the royal art of alchemy, and bears many outward resemblances to this pseudoscience. However, alchemetry actually deals with contacting and negotiating with the elementals of everyday matter, and convincing them to change the way they form materials.

Alchemetry often involves the use of astronomic gauges and astrolabes, employed to determine the alignment of heavenly bodies, as well as more traditional alchemical supplies such as flasks and scales. Any such specialized equipment counts as a masterwork piece of equipment, and provides a +2 circumstance bonus on the Gramarie check made to prepare an alchemetric principle. The Almagest is a mythical alchemetric treatise which is said to describe the motion of the planets in exacting detail.

Key Skill: Diplomacy

ALCH 101: Intro to Alchemetry 10
Prerequisites: None
Preparation Time: 30 minutes
Target: Solid material of no more than 8 cubic ft. and weighing no more than 5,000 lb
Save: Fort Negates
Tools: Measuring flasks and astrolabes.

This course of study teaches the gramarist to convince the fundamental properties of materials to alter themselves. The target must be a single body of uniform material (even if that uniform material is an alloy). Any mass can only have one modification to a given statistic at a time (for example, a mass of iron can't have its durability raised twice).

2 Point Principles

• Durable: The hit points per inch of thickness of the target are increased or decreased by a half of your Alchemetry training (minimum of 1 hit point per inch).
• Elastic: The hardness of the target is increased or decreased by one fifth of your Alchemetry training (minimum hardness 0).
• Insulation: The target increases and decreases in temperature by a different factor than it normally would from external heat sources and temperature conditions. Divide your Alchemetry Training by ten (minimum 1), and pick either that number or its inverse (1/the result) as the new heat capacity factor. All temperature changes to the body are multiplied by this factor before being applied to it. This also affects cold and fire damage sustained by the target.
• Resistivity: The target increases and decreases electric currents by a different factor than it normally would. Divide your Alchemetry Training by ten (minimum 1), and pick either that number or its inverse (1/the result) as the new resistivity factor. This affects electricity damage that would be dealt to the target and inversely affects the length required for amps to travel at which amps are lost. For the purposes of class features and other abilities, a material is considered conductive if it takes 1/4 or lower damage from electricity.
• Sturdiness: The break DC of the target can be increased or decreased by one quarter of your Alchemetry training (minimum DC 3).

ALCH 112: Spooky Solvents [Thesis] 10
Prerequisites: x Training
Preparation Time: 30 minutes
Target: Specific liquid of no more than 1 pint
Tools: Measuring beakers and crucibles.

This course of study teaches the gramarist how to transform one liquid to another, or to forcefully separate chemicals within liquids.

1 Point Principles

• Aquatic Alchemy: Each time this principle is taken select two of the following liquids; acid, alchemist's fire, antitoxin, crude oil, lantern oil, oil of detect poison, oil of erase, oil of mending, oil of purify food and drink, universal solvent, water, or wine. By preparing this principle on one of the liquids you have selected, you can coax elemetals to change into another liquid you have selected for this principle. Oils that have spell effects have a caster level equal to 1 + a third of your ALCH training. This principle can be taken up to six times.
• Purify Potion This principle can be used to purify substances selected for aquatic alchemy. A single solute of your choice with a concentration of at least 10,000 parts per million is removed from the solvent, and it ends up distilled in a space adjacent to the fluid (the exact location may be decided as a logical decision). This principle can also specifically be used to purify alkahest, reconstituting solid objects and creatures that have been dissolved in it. In addition when this course is used through this principle it can target a much greater volume, up to 8 cubic feet. [1]
• Slick and Stick: Add the items; salve of slipperiness and sovereign glue, to the list of liquids you have selected for Aquatic Alchemy. [6]

2 Point Principles:

• Elementric Containment: Knowing the principle allows you to spend a free action when creation acid or an alchemist's fire with Aquatic Alchemy, to set it's energy damage to a different form. You can set the energy damage to be any of the following; acid, cold, desiccation, electricity, fire, or sonic. [3]

ALCH 119: Architecture of Animals 6
Prerequisites: x Training, BIOY 10
Preparation Time: 1 hour
Target: Specific solid material of no more than 8 cubic ft. and weighing no more than 5,000 lb
Tools: Enzymes and crucibles.

This course of study teaches the gramarist how to transform one organic material into another. When this course is used, you are actually using two principles from this course, one to determine the target of the "principle", and one to determine the material for the target to transform into. You cannot use a principle from this course, until you have at least two principles from this course.

1 Point Principles

• Amber Alchemy: You use this course to transform organic materials into and from Amber.
• Carapace Alchemy: You use this course to transform organic materials into and from Chitin.
• Ebony Alchemy: You use this course to transform organic materials into and from Wood.
• Plastic Alchemy: You use this course to transform organic materials into and from Wax.
• Ivory Alchemy: You use this course to transform organic materials into and from Bone.
• Woven Alchemy: You use this course to transform organic materials into and from Silk.

ALCH 163: Primitive Products 4
Prerequisites: x Training, GEOC 10
Preparation Time: 1 hour
Target: Specific solid material of no more than 8 cubic ft. and weighing no more than 5,000 lb
Tools: Measuring tools and crucibles.

This course of study teaches the gramarist how to transform one primitive construction material into another. When this course is used, you are actually using two principles from this course, one to determine the target of the "principle", and one to determine the material for the target to transform into. You cannot use a principle from this course, until you have at least two principles from this course.

1 Point Principles

• Adobe Alchemy: You use this course to transform primitive materials into and from Mud.
• Dune Alchemy: You use this course to transform primitive materials into and from Sand.
• Green Alchemy: You use this course to transform primitive materials into and from Wood.
• Igloo Alchemy: You use this course to transform primitive materials into and from Snow.

ALCH 202: Irregular Properties 7
Prerequisites: x Training
Preparation Time: 1 hour
Target: Solid material of no more than 8 cubic ft. and weighing no more than 5,000 lb
Tools: Thermometers and astrolabes.

This course of study teaches the gramarist to convince the elemental properties of materials to alter themselves. The target must be a single body of uniform material (even if that uniform material is an alloy). Any mass can only have one modification to a given statistic at a time (for example, a mass of iron can't have its flammability raised twice).

1 Point Principles

• Resonance: This makes a material resonate better with vibrations, reducing it's vulnerability to sound. A material of increased resonance does not have it's hardness bypassed by sonic damage, and it only takes half damage from bludgeon damage as if it was energy damage.

2 Point Principles

• Buffering: This either increases or decreases the amount of reactions acidic chemicals cause upon the material. A material of increased buffering takes only half as much acid damage as it normally would, and if it comes in contact with a fluid that deals acid damage and is not destroyed by it after a number of rounds equal to the number of squares the fluid could cover, the fluid is rendered pH neutral (assuming the target remains in contact with the fluid). A material of decreased buffering takes twice as much acid damage as it normally would.
• Flammability: This make a material either more or less flammable. A material of increased flammability loses all immunity and resistance to fire, fire damage ignores the materials hardness, and fire no longer only deals half damage if it normally would. A material of decreased flammability only takes half as much fire damage as it normally would.
• Magnetism: This makes a material either more or less magnetic. A material of increased magnetism is treated as ferrous and it takes twice as much electricity damage as it normally would. A material of decreased magnetism stops counting as ferrous and it takes only half as much electricity damage as it normally would (this can only be done to materials that are magnetic).

ALCH 286: Mysterious Metallurgy [Thesis] 10
Prerequisites: x Training
Preparation Time: 1 hour
Target: Specific solid material of no more than 8 cubic ft. and weighing no more than 5,000 lb
Tools: Bunsen burner, crucibles, and tongs.

This course of study teaches the gramarist how to transform one planetary metal into another. When this course is used, you are actually using two principles from this course, one to determine the target of the "principle", and one to determine the metal for the target to transform into. You cannot use a principle from this course, until you have at least two principles from this course.

Metals transformed by this course are identifiable as such by a DC 20 Appraise check, which shows what the original metal was, and as such they are often not worth as much as the "real" metal.

1 Point Principles

• Copper: You use this course to transform metals into and from Copper.
• Lead: You use this course to transform metals into and from Lead.
• Mercury: You use this course to transform metals into and from Mercury.
• Iron: You use this course to transform metals into and from Iron.
• Silver: You use this course to transform metals into and from Silver.
• Tin: You use this course to transform metals into and from Tin.

2 Point Principles:

• Gold: You use this course to transform metals into and from Gold.
• Platinum: You use this course to transform metals into and from Platinum. When you transform a metal into platinum, it is at a ratio of 10:1 rather than 1:1 (transforming platinum into other things does not have an altered ratio). [8]

ALCH 364: Unexpected Materials [Thesis] 25
Prerequisites: x Training
Preparation Time: 1 hour
Target: Specific material of no more than 8 cubic ft. and weighing no more than 5,000 lb
Tools: Bunsen burner, crucibles, and tongs.

This course of study teaches the gramarist how to purify planetary metals to an extent that they gain supernatural traits. These resulting metals have all the traits of it's un-ascended form, and it gains additional traits from ascension.

2 Point Principles

• Alkahest: You can use this principle to ascend Tin into Alkahest.
• Carmot: You can use this principle to ascend Copper into Carmot.

3 Point Principles

• Cursed Lead: You can use this principle to ascend Lead into Cursed Lead.
• Moonsteel: You can use this principle to ascend Silver into Moonsteel.
• Orichalcum: You can use this principle to ascend Platinum into Orichalcum.

4 Point Principles

• Phlogiston: You can use this principle to ascend Iron into Phlogiston.
• Quicksilver: You can use this principle to ascend Mercury into Quicksilver.
• Sunmetal: You can use this principle to ascend Gold into Sunmetal.

******* I suggest we have a table or section at the end of the update that states the properties of all materials listed in gramarie. *******

ALCH 217: Reactive Reagents [Military][WIP] 10

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Prerequisites: x Training
Preparation Time: 2 hours
Target: Specific material of no more than 8 cubic ft. and weighing no more than 5,000 lb
Tools: Phosphorous and crucibles.

This course of study teaches the gramarist how to improve the destructive power of dangerous chemicals. Whenever you create a chemical with this course you need to select that chemicals Trigger. A trigger is the circumstance that causes the chemical to react, and are as follows:

• Charged Triggers if a 1 Amp is sent through it, per 5 ft. volume of the mass.
• Collision Triggers if dealt 6 points of physical damage of a specific type in a single turn, per 5 ft. volume of the mass.
• Energized Triggers if dealt 6 points of energy damage of a specific type in a single turn, per 5 ft. volume of the mass.
• Exposure Triggers if the surface of the chemical comes in contact with 1 cubic foot of gaseous oxygen, per 5 ft. volume of the mass.

1 Point Principles

• Secondary Trigger: Instead of modifying something, knowing this principle lets you select an additional trigger for chemical created by this course. This can be taken twice, granting a third trigger slot for your chemicals. [4]

2 Point Principles

• Alchemists Inferno: This principle alters the properties of Alchemists Fire to turn it into a powerful explosive called Alchemist's Inferno. When this is triggered it immediately converts the entire mass into an explosion that has an effect radius of 5 ft. per 5 cubic ft. of volume that the mass has. Anything in the effect radius takes 2d6 energy damage (same energy type as the alchemists fire used to create the alchemist's inferno). Combustibles that take this damage are set on fire, except that the damage is whichever damage is being used rather than necessarily being fire damage.
• Brisance Bombs: This principle alters the properties of a Thunderstone to turn it into a potential grenade known as a Brisance Bomb.
• Corrosive Catalyst: This principle alters the properties of Acid, allowing it to cause impressive reactions when it comes in contact with other chemicals, though its PH becomes much closer to 7 (causing the acid to deal 1d4-3 damage). This chemical does not function like the others and lacks a trigger, instead it counts as Triggering circumstances for a mass of equal or lesser volume of a chemical that it is comes in contact with. This destroys an amount of corrosive catalyst equal to the volume triggered.
• Dirty Bomb: This principle alters the properties of a Poison converting it into a toxic gas.

[qazzquimby]

I was working on the science behind gramarie, and opinions would be helpful.
The elementals/fey inside materials are called Lit, and function as atoms more than living things, because theyre entirely predictable. Lit fit together to make clusters, starting as effectively molecules for each element, and then more complex materials. Groups of clusters form a mass. And distinguish themselves as a unit. A unit is where an object thinks it begins and ends, and all Lit in a unit can communicate instantaneosuly with all others, causing affects to touch the entire object in most cases (hence teleporting a chair moves the whole chair, not part of it).
Organisms run on energy in the form of ebbs, presumably because ebbs are so multipurpose compared to most forms of energy. -posting part 1, phone doesnt like it being this long.

[qazzquimby]

The body produces ebbs through bodily processes, eating and breathing or alternatives, and most creatures store these ebbs in their blood, where they are circulated and most readily available. This explains grist of the mill, puissance reserves, and blood magic (magic explained later). Important to note that shoving other forms of energy into the body does not increase the ebb reserve. Even positive energy is "spent" on mechanical repair rather than replenishing energy. The brain acts as a limited EI, with the unit (body) as its net. This would mean mind effecting abilities could potentially work on EI, if we want them to. Psychic powers are the product of burning a specialized reserve of energy to produce effects while somehow extending the brain's net outside the body.

[qazzquimby]

The brain EI can function outside its unit at heur access points. Lit can hold information and instructions (datistry?) which allows a whole slew of effects, and works to explain truenaming. Instructions for growth (as DNA) is held in the Lit of organisms, and every Lit automatically holds all information about itself, including an ID unique to that Lit (infinitely long in a cosmology with infinite matter), and records of its location, velocity, and other data, past and present. Each cluster and unit has its own record, as well as containing the information on ach contaied cluster/Lit. Forcefully changing the present information causes reality to change around the new reading. This makes divination, conjuration, teleportation, and all other effects relying on physical properties possible. I believe energy should not be made of Lit, and is therefor not an element, or at least not in the same way wood and water are.

[qazzquimby]

Filters read Lit data and only let some through, blacks blocking Lit data changes caused by the other side (memories are held in Lit in the brain, read by the brain ei), and Heur nets might exist in the aether. I'm trying to work Kald and Heur into Lit/energy/third, but its hard to unify things.
Also, Milo, the easy material fabrication seems sad because it's so boring in compared to needing to figure out item manufacturing on your own. Figuring out where youre going to get tonnes and tonnes of bone is one of the exciting parts of gramarie I think, while alch tends to make all materials one thing, just an hour away from each other. Probably unavoidable, but I'll work on variant rules for trickier material aquisition.

[Milo v3]

1: Ebb isn't a form of energy, it's a unit of measurement in regards to energy. The word you are looking for is puissance. But even then, why would organisms run on puissance that doesn't make any sense, organisms would run on vital energy.
2: datistry should probably be merged with HEUR
3: Lit/energy/third?

Also, Milo, the easy material fabrication seems sad because it's so boring in compared to needing to figure out item manufacturing on your own. Figuring out where youre going to get tonnes and tonnes of bone is one of the exciting parts of gramarie I think, while alch tends to make all materials one thing, just an hour away from each other. Probably unavoidable, but I'll work on variant rules for trickier material aquisition.

This doesn't fabricate material out of nowhere, and anyway the materials you can change at low levels is pretty basic and limited in use aside from wood (which you can get from GEOC in large numbers). It's not like these let you turn bone into copper or ice into silver.

I really don't see the issue.

[Mith]

I was working on the science behind gramarie, and opinions would be helpful.

I think it works well. I agree with Milo that datastriy should be merged with Heuristics. I had planned at trying my own hand with doing a connection with everything, but I was waiting for all the updates to come in first. You probably have a much better understanding than I do about Gramarie though, so it is likely for the better.

[qazzquimby]

Milo
@Ebbs. Oh yeah, that's kind of embarassing, like calling elctricity volts. Organisms run of puissance currently because puissamantics and the puissamanticist work off that assumption, and because it opens up many possibilities. Vital energy is simply hp, while the puissance reserve is a separate pool which can power effects, and allows gramarie to interact with fatigue and haste ina way that makes sense. Also filling people with irradiated or magnetically charged puissance is fun.
@Third, I just meant a third form of material. Matter, energy, and whatever nets and filters are. Not referencing fourthland

@alch. Its more of a personal thing probably, since no one else seems to care. Delaying access doesn't help my problem either because then you either don't use rare materials till its easy, or start earlier and then find your factory is obsolete.

Mith
The update wont change anything not already discussed, so no need to wait. You feel free to help, theres a lot to do.

[Milo v3]

Milo
@Ebbs. Oh yeah, that's kind of embarassing, like calling elctricity volts. Organisms run of puissance currently because puissamantics and the puissamanticist work off that assumption, and because it opens up many possibilities. Vital energy is simply hp, while the puissance reserve is a separate pool which can power effects, and allows gramarie to interact with fatigue and haste ina way that makes sense. Also filling people with irradiated or magnetically charged puissance is fun.

But it doesn't make sense, vital energy is the energy that animates and runs creatures, puissance is magic. Also, you can't just say vital energy is simply HP because then you can say puissance is simply useless energy. Also, based on that argument, electricity is just damage and we cannot make anything use electricity because all it does right now is damage things. I'd just use the Energy of Creatures as the Energy of Organisms rather than randomly making Magic power creatures.

Also, irradiate people with puissance.... Wood Transformers do not produce radiomantic energy unless there have been some severe changes

@alch. Its more of a personal thing probably, since no one else seems to care. Delaying access doesn't help my problem either because then you either don't use rare materials till its easy, or start earlier and then find your factory is obsolete.

I more literally don't understand what issue your trying to raise. Wood and Amber are really the only materials that would have anyone searching for (in regards to Gramarie) out of the materials that you can transform. Wood gain is already covered by GEOC and no one raised any issue with that, and amber is ridiculously painful to obtain since there is no cost for it and the only way you would ever get it normally is if it was really really tiny, making using it in gramarie pretty pointless since it would take like 10 years to make something from it.

If your fun in gramarie is having your scientist spend years in the woods trying to make cubes from tiny tiny bits of amber, then I think there is some dissonance in our opinions.

[Mith]

Mith
The update wont change anything not already discussed, so no need to wait. You feel free to help, theres a lot to do.

OK. Is there any place you want me to start at in particular?

@alch: Would it be more useful to have a conversion of material type? Ceramics to Ceramics, Glass to Glass, liquid to liquid? I think that would be a more open ended system that would have better use than just organic materials, unless there is a thematic reason to why only organic materials are used.

[Milo v3]

@alch: Would it be more useful to have a conversion of material type? Ceramics to Ceramics, Glass to Glass, liquid to liquid? I think that would be a more open ended system that would have better use than just organic materials, unless there is a thematic reason to why only organic materials are used.

I don't think I understand. Ceramic to ceramic would be no change at all, and liquid to liquid is covered by Spooky Solvents and the ALCH Theory.

The reason why organic materials are used in that course is because it's a cross discipline course that requires BIOY training to take.

[qazzquimby]

@Mith
Energy is untouched and I don't know how its created. Material and energy and structure (what I'm calling nets and filters and things) need embellishment. Magic is altering Lit Id and energy (I think energy doesnt have id since it has no mass, so I'm not sure how energy is produced. Spellcasting must require energy (else theyd be at will) so energy from the spellcaster could convert to the energy in the spell. Structures are physical but have no mass. Subspaces may be structures. Planes could use explaining, ideally tying into aether and structures. For balance purposes we need a reason why you cant turn puissance into spells, since psions and bloodcasters seem to be doing it. Old silver transformers make a lot of sense here. Also a custom spell system based around the methods would work well i ingramarie based games.

@Alch
Don't worry about changing the system, I'll make variant rules for myself.

[Milo v3]

For balance purposes we need a reason why you cant turn puissance into spells, since psions and bloodcasters seem to be doing it.

With Mark 2 gramarie you can still turn puissance into spells, it just requires a PrC arcanist made, and it was balanced so I don't see why it shouldn't become canon. iirc the material used for the transformer was Adamantine.

@Alch
Don't worry about changing the system, I'll make variant rules for myself.

So.... your going to make variant rules rather than just explaining what the issue is.... okay then.... -.-

[Mith]

Energy is untouched and I don't know how its created. Material and energy and structure (what I'm calling nets and filters and things) need embellishment. Magic is altering Lit Id and energy (I think energy doesnt have id since it has no mass, so I'm not sure how energy is produced. Spellcasting must require energy (else theyd be at will) so energy from the spellcaster could convert to the energy in the spell. Structures are physical but have no mass. Subspaces may be structures. Planes could use explaining, ideally tying into aether and structures. For balance purposes we need a reason why you cant turn puissance into spells, since psions and bloodcasters seem to be doing it. Old silver transformers make a lot of sense here. Also a custom spell system based around the methods would work well i ingramarie based games.

Well no one knows how energy was initially created.

How about Lit is super condensed energy (think E=m*c^2) with energy being form from the aether. Energy does not have an id because it is the in the id of all Lit. There is always background energy that is converted for Gramarie and for spellcasting, although they use far different methods, which is why dead zones exist for magic users but do not bother gramarists. Gramaric formulas differ from spell-casting (for Arcane at least) by the Gramarist using a personal ability called animas, as well as willpower to interact with reality and use Gramarie. Energy can be converted to different forms, but all systems are inefficient, which is why there are DC checks, as you cannot guarantee success. This inefficiency is also why gramarie can be detected.

Structures are intangible (objects? creations?) that are brought about by a gramarist and interact with the world on a limited level. [I am not sure if that applies to HEUR so much as KALD here but I am just making this up as I go along]

Filters are barriers created by a Gramarist that interact with a certain gradient of reality. [I use "gradient because I am thinking of concentration, temperature, and other gradients and I think it might work considering Acid is an Energy subtype.] This barrier is not 100% efficient and thus emits light as it interacts with the world. All filters have a distinct colour by which they are identified. Black filters do not emit light since that would be the transmission of information to an observer.

HEUR circuits are complex structures that interact with the world using a complex logical code designed at the creation of the circuit. Circuits respond to any interaction in the world when a protocol in it's code is triggered from the interaction, and it carries out the protocol to the best of it's ability. More complex circuits can reach near sentience, though it is only a theory whether or not true sentience is possible.

That's all I have for now since I really cannot think of how to make subspaces work at this point. I would think that planes develop with normal cosmology, and are the reason why entropy doesn't exist and why some gramarie does not break down over time.

[FIFA15coinsfg]

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[qazzquimby]

Writing this the third time. I'm so frustrated with phones.

Milo
Sorry, somehow completely missed your post the first time.
Vital energy - I do see your point, and am not 100% confident, but I believe there are far too many benefits to want to give up the system. The two pools act very differently, and are distinct concepts. Vital energy is drained when you're bruised or cut, the puissance reserve is drained when you jog or climb. Where is it said that puissance is magical energy? I'd always thought of it as generic charge, since there is nothing inherently magical about it, and it's used for near everything. Making it vital energy would be possible, but would require vital energy to interact with creatures in two ways, and would probably bar all interactions with puissamantics, cutting out many beautiful options. The irradiated puissance I mentioned doesn't give the creature negative levels. iirc it turns them into a delayed, unknowing nuke. Fun stuff.

Alch - Why is it only wood and amber? I may be missing context. And I agree, amber would not be fun and would not work as is. Collecting metal is also tedious, to a lesser degree. The experiences I want to keep are trying to gather a fleets worth of blood, or momentos, or acorns, or the laughter of children or whatnot. Things that take some thought to hunt or automate. That was also my design goal with my alt metal fabrication rules. Quicksilver needs to move extremely fast while deep underwater, gold needs to be targeted with a lot of simultaneous negative level effects while exposed on all sides to light that would blind in one round. More fun than digging.

Mith
Lit being supercondensed energy runs into a problem. Either they can not be converted from matter to energy or reverse, in which case lit being energy is meaningless, or there are huge imbalances. It would take great energy to create little matter , and burning a rock would supply a lot of power. If levels were balanced, you still have nigh infinite energy since we have access to nigh infinite matter.
Do filters glow? I'm not attached to kalds colors since they seem so arbitrary. I'd prefer if they could be fluffed various ways but were immediately identifiable as a filter of their type. I imagine that motion will be hard to pass. I have the same problem with other materials, but I'm working on that.

[Milo v3]

Where is it said that puissance is magical energy?

At the first mention of puissance in the system:

Arcanodynamics is the study of arcane power. Arcanodynamic principles explore the relationships between magical energy (commonly known as puissance) and more common forms of energy, such as heat and light.

Also, big posts on phone sound like a real pain.

Alch - Why is it only wood and amber?

Wood and amber were the only materials that I added the ability to transmute that can be used for gramarie as far as I'm aware, it doesn't cover blood or acorns or honey or metals or crystal or anything except for some organic materials and some basic building materials. So you still need to search for blood, acorns, honey, metal, crystal, ice, etc. etc. etc.

Which is why I'm wondering why your talking about fabricating materials being an issue. Since, it doesn't fabricate gramaric materials aside from wood and amber.

[Mith]

Lit being supercondensed energy runs into a problem. Either they can not be converted from matter to energy or reverse, in which case lit being energy is meaningless, or there are huge imbalances. It would take great energy to create little matter , and burning a rock would supply a lot of power. If levels were balanced, you still have nigh infinite energy since we have access to nigh infinite matter.
Do filters glow? I'm not attached to kalds colors since they seem so arbitrary. I'd prefer if they could be fluffed various ways but were immediately identifiable as a filter of their type. I imagine that motion will be hard to pass. I have the same problem with other materials, but I'm working on that.

What happens with Sunmetal when it explodes? It sounds to me to be a reference to Uranium, Plutonium, and elements used in a nuclear reactor. Would ruling in when discussing sunmetal that unlike other materials, sunmetal can be broken down at the sub lit level, unleashing a huge amount of energy? I've always envisioned other materials being consumed to be like combustion of wood: The wood isn't consumed by the fire leaving nothing behind. Instead it is a reaction the produces residue, which has mass. We can rule in that engines emit fine dust as an exhaust, or just rule in that all engines collect residue and have to be cleaned out, and then not worry about that being a problem in-game.

I would assume that either filters glow, or they interact with the world as a reflector. I am neutral on all filter colours except Black filters because that seems to fit the filter's description really well IMO.

[qazzquimby]

Milo
Puissance - Oh. I still can't think of a better alternative. What do you suggest?
Materials - I was actually talking more matter of principle than critiquing your update, but I obviously should have skimmed harder.

Mith
Burning material is pretty different from converting mass to energy I think, but it gave me an interesting idea. All materials are made up of combinations of elements. Wood has average hardnes, floats, and burns. Water reduces melting point, and idk what else. Water + Wood = Oil. Wood+flesh=the inside of a fruit or vegetable? Needs work but could be very useful.
I agree about kald. I think in most settings the colours should be standard, but not required.

[Milo v3]

Milo
Puissance - Oh. I still can't think of a better alternative. What do you suggest?

I'd just say it's vital energy, vital energy doesn't need to just be hit points if we make them more than hit points.

Materials - I was actually talking more matter of principle than critiquing your update, but I obviously should have skimmed harder.

Once you're at doctorate levels you likely don't have time to go mining for specific metals, and it will only allow you to get the basic planetary metals, you will still have to obtain specific materials like Adamantine, Mithral, Glass, Blood, Acorns, Thinaun, Riverine, etc. that are used in gramarie. At least... till you reach Theories then you can make whatever you want but it's epic so thats not too bad.

If you want to do your alternate methods of alchemy, may I suggest that you instead make it describe the natural methods the non-standard materials are formed. Special elements don't come from nuclear fusion, they come by specific circumstances slowly changing the material from one to another, and ALCH is convincing the materials to do what they could normally do by substituting the normal prerequisites with specific stimuli. Which is why you use a diplomancy for it, since your basically bargaining that "Hey look, this stimuli I'm giving right now, it's worth the same amount as the stimuli you want." If your convincing enough and do the science right, the elemental thingies (Lits I think you said above) agree that it's worth it.

I mean, we already have one material that's stated to be created by just being a normal material at super super super high pressures, why not write similar stuff up for the other special materials. Also, adamantine should have something to do with diamond since adamant/adamantine is derived from the same greek word as diamond.

[qazzquimby]

Puissance
Trouble is making two pools with one energy, since hp gain is pretty important. Changing it from generic puissance also cuts out puissamantics and makes things the puissamanticist introduces like running machines off your own effort without transformers impossible. Could you ask fako and co onto the thread? I'd like more opinions.

Alch
Forming materials realistically sounds pretty painful without CHRN (or whatever its called). Is adamantine the super condensed material, or is that diamond? I'd never seen rulings for that, unles youre refering to rl. Also working on physics rules for compressing/expanding materials, and possibly reworking hardness and hit points to work in a predictable way with density.

[Milo v3]

Puissance
Trouble is making two pools with one energy, since hp gain is pretty important. Changing it from generic puissance also cuts out puissamantics and makes things the puissamanticist introduces like running machines off your own effort without transformers impossible.

I haven't really read puissamantics or puissamanticist in depth, but people already function as transformers in minor ways so why would it be impossible?

Could you ask fako and co onto the thread? I'd like more opinions.

I assume they are lurking.

Forming materials realistically sounds pretty painful without CHRN (or whatever its called). Is adamantine the super condensed material, or is that diamond? I'd never seen rulings for that, unles youre refering to rl. Also working on physics rules for compressing/expanding materials, and possibly reworking hardness and hit points to work in a predictable way with density.

I never said realistically. The material change was magic.

The super condensed material is just water that becomes an indestructible magical material called Riverine. It's a specific circumstance that causes the normal material to magically change.

[qazzquimby]

Puissamanticist is a hodgepodge of cool ideas, and needs some reworking. Puissamantics is pretty great, I think.
Suggestion to make us both happy. Vital energy forms two pools (health and vitality), and either interacts with 1 first or its chosen on transformer creation. All the puissance shenannigans are dealt with with a few extra clauses like "this class can treat their vitality as puissance, with 1 point of vitality = 1 ebb of puisance." and for puissamantics "puissance that travels through this refractor becomes vital puissance, and can be contained inside a creature. Each ebb of vital puissance inside a creature supplies 1 point of vitality."
Please approve, I don't I'll be able to appease us both in a different direction.

[Milo v3]

Puissamanticist is a hodgepodge of cool ideas, and needs some reworking. Puissamantics is pretty great, I think.
Suggestion to make us both happy. Vital energy forms two pools (health and vitality), and either interacts with 1 first or its chosen on transformer creation. All the puissance shenannigans are dealt with with a few extra clauses like "this class can treat their vitality as puissance, with 1 point of vitality = 1 ebb of puisance." and for puissamantics "puissance that travels through this refractor becomes vital puissance, and can be contained inside a creature. Each ebb of vital puissance inside a creature supplies 1 point of vitality."
Please approve, I don't I'll be able to appease us both in a different direction.

Yeah that should work, though... I am abit dissatisfied that we can't have an ARCD principle that would allow for silver transformers to give off "Vitality".

[Mith]

I agree about kald. I think in most settings the colours should be standard, but not required.

Standard at lower levels, optional at higher?. Black is always black because it allows no information to be transmitted?

[Milo v3]

Wait....

I agree about kald. I think in most settings the colours should be standard, but not required.

What?!

[qazzquimby]

Milo
Why can't a transformer do that? I probably missed something.

Mith
Giving naturally standard colours is still arbitrary nonsense. I was refering to culttural standards.
I'm working on a chemistry system with mixtures of elements and energy changes. So far its really ugly.