Manga Shoggoth's pre holiday Random Banter Thread #246

[Manga Shoggoth]

Since we hit Page 51 on the old thread I thought I'd generate a new one before I disappeared to the Isle of Wight...

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[Anonymouswizard]

Ah, that new thread smell.

Everyone makes a big deal about fey touching cold iron, but it's not like, an allergy. It's a magical weakness. They won't go into anaphylactic shock if they touch iron, it needs to like, get in their blood.

... Lady of the Lake better make sure she masks up tight while forging, then. Also one could argue she's not fey, she's just some sort of bog witch and or mermaid.

Many depictions show fair folk unable to touch or potentially go near it. It seems more likely that they'd work other metals, possibly special metals mortals have no knowledge of. It's a little known fact that Excalibur is made of an aluminium alloy (although the scabbard was iron, it's why Merlin had it).

[BisectedBrioche]

To be fair, do any of the legends say that she made it? They could have just been the distributor.

[Rater202]

Why are we assuming that an allegedly magical sword that never chips or blunts is made of common steal?

[Razade]

To be fair, do any of the legends say that she made it? They could have just been the distributor.

The legends say it was forged in dragon fire and was created by an elf of Avalon. There are two Excaliburs though, in the tales. One that Merlin put in the stone and the other the Lady held.

[Batcathat]

The legends say it was forged in dragon fire and was created by an elf of Avalon. There are two Excaliburs though, in the tales. One that Merlin put in the stone and the other the Lady held.

I thought the sword in the stone originally wasn’t (a) Excalibur, even if they often are merged in pop culture?

[Rater202]

I thought the sword in the stone originally wasn’t (a) Excalibur, even if they often are merged in pop culture?

It depends on the telling.

sometimes Arthur pulls a sword from the stone and that makes him King. Sometimes he's gifted the sword by the Lady of the Lake. Other times he draws a sword form a stone but then it's lost, broken, or stolen and he receives Excalibur from the Lady as a replacement.

In versions of the story where both swords exist, the sword from the stone tends to be called Caliburn, but Caliburn and Excalibur are likely both derived from the Welsh Caledvwlch, itself likely derived from the Irish Caladbolg.

[DavidSh]

I thought the sword in the stone originally wasn’t (a) Excalibur, even if they often are merged in pop culture?

Malory used the same name for both the sword from the stone and the sword from the lake. You might argue that this was an error, and he didn't intend to do so. My belief is that Arthur's sword being Excalibur pre-dated any ideas explaining how he got it, so that when two different origin stories arose, it wasn't clear which should be the true Excalibur.

Geoffrey of Monmouth The History of the Kings of Britain writes of "his peerless sword, called Caliburn, which was forged in the Isle of Avalon", and doesn't mention the stone at all. According to him, Arthur is already known as the son of Uther and Ygerna.

[Peelee]

Ah, dang, the qualifier is beautiful maidens. So close.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder dragon.

Why are we assuming that an allegedly magical sword that never chips or blunts is made of common steal?

Because the magic doesn't stem from the metal, at a guess.

The legends say it was forged in dragon fire and was created by an elf of Avalon. There are two Excaliburs though, in the tales. One that Merlin put in the stone and the other the Lady held.

Being forged in dragon fire is tight.

Oh, so suddenly we're not okay with fairies in lakes handing out swords as the arbitrators of social class? Some people have respect for tradition...

It depends on the telling.

sometimes Arthur pulls a sword from the stone and that makes him King. Sometimes he's gifted the sword by the Lady of the Lake. Other times he draws a sword form a stone but then it's lost, broken, or stolen and he receives Excalibur from the Lady as a replacement.

In versions of the story where both swords exist, the sword from the stone tends to be called Caliburn, but Caliburn and Excalibur are likely both derived from the Welsh Caledvwlch, itself likely derived from the Irish Caladbolg.

And, notably, the sword given by the Lady in the Lake never confers (or even prophesied) kingship. GET UP TO SNUFF ON YOUR ARTHURIAN LEGENDS, MONTY PYTHON, THAT WAS A HISTORCIALLY INACCURATE JOKE!

I'm going on holiday to the glorious Isle of Wight! In lieu of rock

Happy holiday! Speaking of, one of my favorite subtle jokes from This Is Spinal Tap is that they did a show once on the Isle of Lucy.

[Anonymouswizard]

Why are we assuming that an allegedly magical sword that never chips or blunts is made of common steal?

Because clearly a lot of people would be trying to nick such a sword.

Malory used the same name for both the sword from the stone and the sword from the lake. You might argue that this was an error, and he didn't intend to do so. My belief is that Arthur's sword being Excalibur pre-dated any ideas explaining how he got it, so that when two different origin stories arose, it wasn't clear which should be the true Excalibur.

IIRC you're correct, and originally his entire set of arms was named. Then again Lancelot is considered canon despite being a French addition, so we shouldn't be too picky.

And, notably, the sword given by the Lady in the Lake never confers (or even prophesied) kingship. GET UP TO SNUFF ON YOUR ARTHURIAN LEGENDS, MONTY PYTHON, THAT WAS A HISTORCIALLY INACCURATE JOKE!

I believe, like with Life of Brian, one of them was a scholar of the relevant texts and they got it wrong because it's a funnier joke.

[Peelee]

Because clearly a lot of people would be trying to nick such a sword.

But it can't be nicked!

I believe, like with Life of Brian, one of them was a scholar of the relevant texts and they got it wrong because it's a funnier joke.

Ok, that would be pretty funny.

[Anonymouswizard]

But it can't be nicked!

Absconded with then, thou incessant knave! Steal is almost as bad as nickel for people just walking off with it.

[Bartmanhomer]

Yesterday I drink 3 cups of dark roast hot coffee.

[Anonymouswizard]

Yesterday I drink 3 cups of dark roast hot coffee.

Congratulations! Who's the lucky girl?

...

...

...

Oh, as opposed to iced coffee. Right, now I get you. Sounds nice, although personally I tend to refer more of a medium roast. I find if I go too dark I can't have my coffee black.

[LaZodiac]

Ah, that new thread smell.

Many depictions show fair folk unable to touch or potentially go near it. It seems more likely that they'd work other metals, possibly special metals mortals have no knowledge of. It's a little known fact that Excalibur is made of an aluminium alloy (although the scabbard was iron, it's why Merlin had it).

Fair point, that.

To be fair, do any of the legends say that she made it? They could have just been the distributor.

I don't believe any say the Lady of the Lake made it, but it's a very fun mental image.

Why are we assuming that an allegedly magical sword that never chips or blunts is made of common steal?

This, yeah. It's definitely made of like, magic metal.

It depends on the telling.

sometimes Arthur pulls a sword from the stone and that makes him King. Sometimes he's gifted the sword by the Lady of the Lake. Other times he draws a sword form a stone but then it's lost, broken, or stolen and he receives Excalibur from the Lady as a replacement.

In versions of the story where both swords exist, the sword from the stone tends to be called Caliburn, but Caliburn and Excalibur are likely both derived from the Welsh Caledvwlch, itself likely derived from the Irish Caladbolg.

And despite all this, it's the sheath that holds most of the power!

[Rater202]

And despite all this, it's the sheath that holds most of the power!

Umhmm. Adaptions tend to make it a powerful Holy Sword or give it special powers and such but to my knowledge its main advantage is just that it's indestructible.

Which sounds good on paper but in practice, its utility is still dependent on your skill with a sword and your raw physical strength: Just becuase it won't break if you try to smash through a hunk of granite with it that doesn't mean that you actually can smash through a hunk of granite with it.

The sheath meanwhile is depicted as making you magically invincible and having the power t heal fatal injuries and other **** like that. That's the thing that guarantees you'll win and tellingly it's the fact that the sheath is stolen and then lost that foreshadows Arthur's downfall.

[Anonymouswizard]

And despite all this, it's the sheath that holds most of the power!

Something something feminism!

Umhmm. Adaptions tend to make it a powerful Holy Sword or give it special powers and such but to my knowledge its main advantage is just that it's indestructible.

Actually IIRC it's main displayed power is increasing the wielder's luck in combat, which is why Arthur dies in a mutual kill (Excaliburn becomes unstuck at just the right moment to strike the enemy who's about to kill him). It might also never dull but that's a less important quality.

The sheath meanwhile is depicted as making you magically invincible and having the power t heal fatal injuries and other **** like that. That's the thing that guarantees you'll win and tellingly it's the fact that the sheath is stolen and then lost that foreshadows Arthur's downfall.

Okay, this one I do know, it stops you from bleeding. That's it, but it's still ridiculously useful, if Arthur had had the scabbard he'd have survived long enough to get medical attention (although he'd likely would have had to deal with an infection). It's amazing, but he still ruled for like three decades without it.

It giving regeneration or the like is, I believe, actually a Fate/Stay Night thing.

[Rater202]

I've seen the sheath having healing powers in at least one other place.

[Anonymouswizard]

I've seen the sheath having healing powers in at least one other place.

Pre- or post- Fate?

[Rater202]

Pre- or post- Fate?

It was a definetly before Fate was widely known in the West outside of bootleg fan translations but I don't know if it predates it entirely.

[Batcathat]

According to Wikipedia (so take that as you will, in regards to reliability): "In the Post-Vulgate version, used in Malory's Le Morte d'Arthur for the second Excalibur, the sword's scabbard is also said to have powers of its own, as any wounds received while wearing it would not bleed at all, thus preventing the wearer from ever bleeding to death in battle." Not quite healing or invincibility, but in the same area, at least.

[Jasdoif]

Why are we assuming that an allegedly magical sword that never chips or blunts is made of common steal?

I didn't feel like questioning LaZodiac on this one...though now I'm getting mixed signals. Also feytouched, lacking damage reduction, don't have especially adverse reactions to cold iron; there's an advantage to a misconception. Excalipoor is more likely to be a "steal", anyway.

[DataNinja]

I'll take you to meet some English lords sometime, you'll see that good judgement isn't really part of the job requirements

...y'know what, I'll take your word for it. Though, I suppose if I wanted to abruptly cross the ocean on a whim with no planning, at least I'd apparently be in good company of judgement.

Also I'm sure we can round up some lesbians and settle this 'is DataNinja beautiful' thing once and for all!

You say this, Mx. Wizard, as though I don't already know several.

[Anonymouswizard]

You say this, Mx. Wizard, as though I don't already know several.

Ah, but are they a representative sample of lesbianism?

[HalfTangible]

Ah that new thread smell...

Perfect ambience for waiting for truck inspections to finish.

[DataNinja]

Ah, but are they a representative sample of lesbianism?

Of course! I assure you they are the most representative sample.
Unrelatedly, I also failed statistics.

[Anonymouswizard]

Of course! I assure you they are the most representative sample.
Unrelatedly, I also failed statistics.

After my last statistics class I managed to deduce that cats cause lesbians. I'm really not sure why they cut off the top half of my B grade though...

[Fyraltari]

Yesterday I drink 3 cups of dark roast hot coffee.

Congratulations! Who's the lucky girl?

What? How did you get that from this?

[LaZodiac]

What? How did you get that from this?

It's a "hot coffee" joke. Anon Wizard's only ever cracks wise with the vintage material.

[Bartmanhomer]

Congratulations! Who's the lucky girl?

...

...

...

Oh, as opposed to iced coffee. Right, now I get you. Sounds nice, although personally I tend to refer more of a medium roast. I find if I go too dark I can't have my coffee black.

Spoiler: My Lucky Girl

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Hlal the Laughing Dragon Deity.