Thog, Z and Nale's whereabouts.

[Psyren]

Thog might not be dead, but Nale and Z certainly are. Where are they? Why hasn't Nale gone to see his fiendish ladylove yet? Are all three (or at least the latter two) in the afterlife yet?

The IFCC resides in Lee's domain (I think), which I took to mean Hell. Nale being LE, that's where he'd be headed. Hell is probably a big place, but what are the odds we'll get an afterlife scene with any of them?

Thog's survival was an open question, but now I'm leaning towards that he got squashed in the rubble - I'm not sure what point there'd be in having Thog survive on his own now that most of the LG is down for the count. He's not much use without Nale holding his leash.

[wyrmhole]

Nale's LE? He seems like a shoe-in for CE to me.

[Living Oxymoron]

Nale's LE? He seems like a shoe-in for CE to me.

Really? He is like a stereotypical LE to me.

[AKA_Bait]

Thog might not be dead, but Nale and Z certainly are. Where are they? Why hasn't Nale gone to see his fiendish ladylove yet? Are all three (or at least the latter two) in the afterlife yet?

They may still be getting processed. It took Roy a little while to get cleared.

The IFCC resides in Lee's domain (I think), which I took to mean Hell. Nale being LE, that's where he'd be headed. Hell is probably a big place, but what are the odds we'll get an afterlife scene with any of them?

Nale's LE? He seems like a shoe-in for CE to me.

I actually lean toward NE for Nale. I don't think he's LE. Sure, he says he's LE and probably thinks he's LE, but he really doesn't act like a lawful character.

Thog's survival was an open question, but now I'm leaning towards that he got squashed in the rubble - I'm not sure what point there'd be in having Thog survive on his own now that most of the LG is down for the count. He's not much use without Nale holding his leash.

I think Tarquin's reason for refusing to allow Nale to bring Thog with them to the pyramid (i.e., he's a "loose cannon," not "he's a pancake and we aren't spending the time/resources to dig him out and raise him right now") is pretty good evidence that he's alive. As for the point, it could be as simple as the Giant wanting to leave his options open.

[Gift Jeraff]

The less we see/learn of Z, the cooler he is.

Nale's LE? He seems like a shoe-in for CE to me.

Really? He is like a stereotypical LE to me.

He could be the poster child for NE, IMO.

[Ceaon]

As for the point, it could be as simple as the Giant wanting to leave his options open.

I think the Giant has planned the entire story out, so he doesn't really need to leave his options open.

I believe Thog's dead was left ambiguous so that the Order would be able to believe Thog was alive (so that Tarquin could pose as him), while simultaneously not needing an additional explanation of Thog's death later.

Of course, I could be very wrong.

[AKA_Bait]

I think the Giant has planned the entire story out, so he doesn't really need to leave his options open.

Plans can change. There was no narrative purpose to showing Thog as actually killed (unlike with Nale and Z). The Giant is good enough to avoid closing his options unnecessarily, even if he never plans to exercise any of those options right now.

[KillianHawkeye]

In my opinion, leaving Thog's fate in the arena ambiguous was simply a good way to keep up the status quo until the more shocking on-screen deaths which ocurred later. If Thog had been confirmed dead, it wouldn't be such a surprise when other members of the Linear Guild began dying off. It was simply much too early in the current story arc for things to get that serious.

[Ridureyu]

Can't you actually see the X's in Thog's eyes when he gets squashed? It's hard to spot, but you can see a couple of pixels that do not look like normal eyes.

Either way, Thog is out. Aside from all the pre-planning for this arc, the Giant had expressed puzzelement at how many fans Thog had despite his murderous behavior, and said that he didn't like writing the character and only kept him on because people liked the jokes. And then these sentiments got echoed really directly in the fight comics (including Thog killing one of his fans, albeit by accident). SO yeah, point taken.

[Psyren]

Nale's LE? He seems like a shoe-in for CE to me.

He says he is LE, and I didn't see anything since then to indicate his outlook/alignment changed.

I actually lean toward NE for Nale. I don't think he's LE. Sure, he says he's LE and probably thinks he's LE, but he really doesn't act like a lawful character.

Okay, I'll bite. What is it that makes him seem unlawful?

I think Tarquin's reason for refusing to allow Nale to bring Thog with them to the pyramid (i.e., he's a "loose cannon," not "he's a pancake and we aren't spending the time/resources to dig him out and raise him right now") is pretty good evidence that he's alive. As for the point, it could be as simple as the Giant wanting to leave his options open.

Perhaps, but with Nale perma-dead and nobody having any reason to raise Z, what point would there be in leaving Thog alive?

In my opinion, leaving Thog's fate in the arena ambiguous was simply a good way to keep up the status quo until the more shocking on-screen deaths which ocurred later. If Thog had been confirmed dead, it wouldn't be such a surprise when other members of the Linear Guild began dying off. It was simply much too early in the current story arc for things to get that serious.

This is exactly what I think. He died, but secretly, so that people wouldn't start putting the LG way up on the death pool. (Speaking of which, I wonder who was expecting Nale and Z to kick it one after the other in that thread?)

[Heksefatter]

The Giant has clearly hinted that Nale might not be LE. In any case, he could:

1) Be undergoing an evaluation similar to the one Roy underwent and thus not be in any evil afterlife proper.

2) Even if LE (I have him tagged as NE, but I am not ruling out LE), he could be somewhere else. Not all LE people go into director Lee's inbox.

Personally, I hope we will see a bit interaction between afterlife-Nale and Sabine, though.

[Rostenoc]

Can't you actually see the X's in Thog's eyes when he gets squashed? It's hard to spot, but you can see a couple of pixels that do not look like normal eyes.

That's glass from the smashed potion bottle; compare to previous frames for the position in his face.

[Asta Kask]

He is the opposite of Elan. Elan is Chaotic Good. Therefore it is reasonable to assume that Nale is Lawful Evil.

[CaDzilla]

He is the opposite of Elan. Elan is Chaotic Good. Therefore it is reasonable to assume that Nale is Lawful Evil.

He just said that to fit into the whole evil opposites theme.

[Psyren]

The Giant has clearly hinted that Nale might not be LE.

Sauce?

Personally, I hope we will see a bit interaction between afterlife-Nale and Sabine, though.

Definitely agreed there!

He just said that to fit into the whole evil opposites theme.

It's still fitting, and furthermore Thog is almost certainly CE - Roy's opposite.

(It does break down at Sabine though.)

[AKA_Bait]

Okay, I'll bite. What is it that makes him seem unlawful?

It's more that other than his own say-so, I don't see anything that indicates he is lawful. The characters at the corners of the alignment box in the strip all tend to have specific alignmenty traits we are made aware of that are ingrained into the character. For the Lawful characters, this tends to be considering some specific set of rules to be important. Nale doesn't even follow his own evil-opposites rule proactively or all that closely.

Perhaps, but with Nale perma-dead and nobody having any reason to raise Z, what point would there be in leaving Thog alive?

There's still Sabine out there, as well as Tarquin (who, if Thog lives, would have custody of him). Thog could get back in the action if the Giant wanted to play it that way. He could also use him in a cut away for a quick one off gag or to torture his readers that like to predict how the comic is going to go.

[Keltest]

Sauce?



Definitely agreed there!



It's still fitting, and furthermore Thog is almost certainly CE - Roy's opposite.

(It does break down at Sabine though.)

Sabine is a Succubus. That means that she's (more or less) required to be of a specific alignment (I forget if its Chaotic or Lawful, and I think they even switched it at some point). Yes, I recognize that the giant has expressed distaste for the "must always be X alignment" but that doesn't mean every character is going to be a violation of that simply for the sake of it, especially without giving any indication of that in the hundreds of comics since their introduction.

[Jasdoif]

The Giant has clearly hinted that Nale might not be LE.

Sauce?

Here you go:

Even bigger example. Nale. He never seems to do anything Lawful at all. He doesn't have a code. He doesn't follow traditions of law. He would break any code he had if he got his father's empire and his brother's eternal torment. He'd probably backstab Sabine if he had to.

Interesting, that. Don't you think?

[Morquard]

Why hasn't Nale gone to see his fiendish ladylove yet?

You seem to think Hell is a place they just let you walk around all on your own. Sure the LG heaven did that. But it was heaven. For LG people, by LG creatures, created as their reward. And Roy couldn't actually go everywhere either, Horace had to come down from the mountain and not the other way around.
Hell on the other hand I suppose is a lot more... uncomfortable. The strong lord over the weak, and such things. And the weakest there might well be the new arrivals. So where is Nale? He's probably some higher level devil's b*tch right now.

Not to mention that the IFCC probably does not advertise their domain too well, so unless he knows where to go...

And thirdly, I don't think Nale even knows about the IFCC and Sabine's involvement with them, so wouldn't know to go there.

Will Sabine eventually go to pick him up? I think she'll try, but will the IFCC let her go to fetch a "now useless tool"? Remember that Sabine herself is a Demon, she might be fairly powerless in Hell. Also the Bloodwar is a reality here apparantly, so showing her Demon face in hell might be enough to get others to kill her.

[Ridureyu]

I don't see any way that Thog would be anything but Chaotic Evil.

Thog is chaotic - he is run not by any law or system or concept of honor, but instead by his whims at the moment.

Thog is evil - he kills everything but puppies. And maybe even puppies.

[BaronOfHell]

At first I read this thread's title as Thor, Z and Nale's whereabouts.

The way I see Thog work without the LG is the way he could work with Elan. By himself there doesn't seem to be much drive, but I imagine he can accompany some characters well.

Apart from that, I agree it's really difficult to see Thog by himself. On the other hand, if Thog didn't survive, what would his chances be to return? I'm not familiar with how it works, but V said he'd be able to come back a ghost, was that because V, like Nale and Z are spell casters?

One reason I suspect we might see more of Nale is because of the Giant quoted text in this thread, which makes me think that maybe Nale's alignment will be explored some more, also it's my impression there has been hints about upbringing vs. birth of Elan & Nale and their respective lives (and alignments) that followed, and it doesn't feel like it's reached it conclusion yet.

[Sunken Valley]

Seems like I'm famous around Nale alignment debates. I said that before Nale had his dream vision, killed Malack and got killed. All of which exposé him as NE

[Metahuman1]

Thog still alive could work. Wait, here me out.

It could work as a redemption story, maybe similar to Belkar's, except Elan is actively helping him at the moment.

Or, it could play into Belkar's in that Thog sorta becomes the example of what Belkar is/was like, that ends up helping to ultimately push him over the cusp and into Chaotic Neutral Territory.

[Sir_Leorik]

Regarding Zz'dtri, Word of Giant gives his Alignment as Neutral Evil. However, he's a Drow, so he may have gone to the Abyss, to the Realm of Lolth Lloth Lilith Diane Rebecca the Drow's heretofore unnamed goddess, where he'll be judged for how loyal he was to her in life. Given that Z's male, served a male Human, and didn't actually kill Vaarsuvius, he'd better hope all the fruit baskets he caused Tarquin to send to the Drow Matrons will earn Z some Brownie Points.

Nale's Alignment is tricky; while he gave it as Lawful Evil in DCF, he's displayed pretty Chaotic behavior, even there. For example he taunts Celia by claiming she'd been turned to stone for a thousand years, just for the "lulz". That's not exactly Lawful Evil behavior. His original plan for getting revenge on Elan would have entailed Thog getting killed in the process. And of course all of Nale's plans are needlessly complicated. Compare Nale's plans to Tarquin's clever "three card monte" scheme, where Team Tarquin swap the patsy rulers of the three Empires they rule every two years or so, while slowly expanding. It isn't a very complicated plan, but it does require timing and coordination.

So the question is: is Nale Neutral Evil or Chaotic Evil? And did he become so under Sabine's influence, to cheese off his Lawful Evil father, or because he hung out too much with Thog?

thog bad influence on nale.

Speaking of Thog, as much as I like the goofball, I think that it would be better if he had been killed by falling masonry in the arena. Roy's Bond one-liner ("Stop talking.") is a great one, and this should really be Roy and Thog's final confrontation.

[TheBST]

It's more that other than his own say-so, I don't see anything that indicates he is lawful [...] For the Lawful characters, this tends to be considering some specific set of rules to be important. Nale doesn't even follow his own evil-opposites rule proactively or all that closely.

You seem to think Hell is a place they just let you walk around all on your own. Sure the LG heaven did that. But it was heaven.

You know, with these in mind, as well as The Giant teasing about Nale's alignment, a thought occurs: had Nale been acting more chaotic on purpose?

Wild speculation ahoy:

Spoiler

Show

Sabine's CE after all, and- sick as their relationship is- it's been hammered home that those two genuinely love each other.

Since Sabine's metaphysically incapable of being Lawful, is it possible that Nale was actively trying to be more chaotic so they'd at least be put in the same section of the Evil afterlife: a completely twisted version of the idea of converting for love?

As for Thog, here Tarquin refers to Thog in the present tense as if he's still alive. So, Thog stays locked up, and let's face it after all his murdering he should be. But at least Thog fans can say he's alive and doing something he loves. Everybody wins.

[BaronOfHell]

Is it 3 times we've seen "Stop talking" or similar so far?

One time where Miko kicks Roy in the face in an attempt to escape right after executing Lord S.

Second time where Roy kicks Thog.

Third time where Tarquin pulls the rug underneath Julio.

[marq]

...the Giant had expressed puzzelement at how many fans Thog had despite his murderous behavior, and said that he didn't like writing the character and only kept him on because people liked the jokes...

Not to derail anything, but...

Really?? Thog is easily the funniest character he wrote, I'm shocked he didn't expect people to love him.

[Gift Jeraff]

Is it 3 times we've seen "Stop talking" or similar so far?

One time where Miko kicks Roy in the face in an attempt to escape right after executing Lord S.

Second time where Roy kicks Thog.

Third time where Tarquin pulls the rug underneath Julio.

Thog said it to Roy when he tried to surrender in the arena.

[Ridureyu]

Not to derail anything, but...

Really?? Thog is easily the funniest character he wrote, I'm shocked he didn't expect people to love him.

Understand, a lot of people were arguing that Thog was not evil at all.

[marq]

Understand, a lot of people were arguing that Thog was not evil at all.

Yeah, I can see that. But I'm shocked that "he didn't like writing the character and only kept him in because people liked his jokes."

I'm surprised to hear that he didn't like writing the character. I'm surprised he kept him in just because forum users like him.

And I'm most surprised he was puzzled over how popular the character was.