Pact: A complete breakfast cereal brought to you by Wildbow [spoilers]

[Forum Explorer]

So a few new chapters up. I really liked the latest one as it explained more about familiars, demenses and implements. Any thoughts on what people would use for implements?

A book. Preferably one with a thick cover. Lots of symbolism in a book, but information gathering/sharing would be likely be a part of it.

[Landis963]

A book. Preferably one with a thick cover. Lots of symbolism in a book, but information gathering/sharing would be likely be a part of it.

Actually a guy on the comments had a really good write-up of what a Tome would symbolize given the examples we have already.

The Tome

Declarative. The tome can be highly variable in its profile, from a journal or Bible that can fit in a large pocket or bag to a huge reference volume requiring a table or lectern for proper use. Its purpose is to store knowledge, but, unlike a library, its contents are extremely limited. Its use speaks to possession of valuable secrets, but also to a potentially hidebound nature that is dismissive of information contradictory to or even just not related to details in the tome.

Authoritative. The tome’s purpose is informational and, often, religious. Closed, it can serve as a physical representation of belief, used to enhance oaths and drive back certain Others. Opened, it represents the classic Western spellcaster’s pose, indicating an intention to bring forth rare and powerful information or magic. The act of writing in such a tome draws a fundamental weight to the details so enshrined: with limited pages, facts entered into the tome ring with importance. Unlike most other implements, a tome is extremely practical in its ability to serve as both instruction and focus for ritual magic.

Socio-Cultural. Tomes are extremely common among practitioners of strong belief, and are almost always an extremely fine copy of the core religious text for these individuals. They are also somewhat common among scholars in the form of either a personally-written journal or a useful codex of summarized facts and references relevant to the practitioner’s pursuits.

[Forum Explorer]

Actually a guy on the comments had a really good write-up of what a Tome would symbolize given the examples we have already.

That is so cool and almost exactly what I was going for.

[Landis963]

That is so cool and almost exactly what I was going for.

I know. I want to write something up on the Lens like that, but I'm not sure when I'll have the time to make something as in-depth as this. (Also, I have no idea where to begin the socio-cultural section)

[Lamech]

Hmm... I think I might go with a computer.

[Landis963]

Hmm... I think I might go with a computer.

And when it inevitably becomes obsolete?

[Landis963]

I've got a write-up for my favored implement, the Lens (well, I want mine to be a spyglass for a number of reasons, but it's got a lens, so here we go).

The Lens

Declarative. The lens can range in size from no bigger than one's thumbnail to as large as one's hand, meaning it has a range of potential profiles. Many practitioners who choose a lens as their implement, however, choose to hide it within another thing, as in a magnifying glass or a spyglass (or even, in one inventive case, wearing it on their eye as a contact). In all of its forms, it focuses sight at a specific distance. As such, a practitioner wielding a lens as their implement can be assumed to focus on sight, whether that be merely piercing glamour or scrying far-off objects or people.

Authoritative. However, since a lens is so often hidden within another thing, it is these objects which take on the authoritative aspect. And here we see a slightly divergent pattern emerge; the magnifying glass, the spyglass, the microscope, even the spectacles, all point to the discovery of the new.

Socio-Cultural. As such, the lens is a favored implement of the scientifically-minded, especially those attempting to discern new elements of their particular field. Professional explorers of every type have benefited from this implement.

[Lamech]

And when it inevitably becomes obsolete?

It will still be vastly more advanced than everyone elses. Hmm... maybe I could use a virtual computer and just move it to better hardware each time.

[Eldan]

Could you have a program as your implement and then just port it to newer hardware?

Hey, I know! I'll nick a pickled brain from the anatomy room. Take that, symbolism!

[Madwand]

I would go with ceremonial knife used to cut out hearts of defeated Others. If all creepy mythological things that can kill, torture and piss into people's milk are walking around.. someone need to hunt them down. And taking power of your enemy is always cool. Gimmie the prize!

[Lamech]

And you can eat it for more power! I'm sure it won't have any bad side effects.

[J-H]

Cool, Wildbow is back to posting extra chapters on Thursday.

[Landis963]

Cool, Wildbow is back to posting extra chapters on Thursday.

Because he's got enough of a fan base that they've paid for it. Twice now.

[Lamech]

Bunch of points about this.
1) Laird never said that Maggie's goblins killed Molly. They attacked Molly sure, but who actually did the killing?
2) Blake did not swear he wouldn't summon demons. You'll also note Rose did not swear to not summon demons. She said we have no intention. Presumably being wrong doesn't count as a lie.

[Somebloke]

...basically, in order to really thrive in the magical world, you have to be a cold-hearted borderline sociopath, don't you?

[Madwand]

And you can eat it for more power! I'm sure it won't have any bad side effects.

Yes, it is whole point of exercise. Demon lawyers says it is kosher, so no bad side effects.

...basically, in order to really thrive in the magical world, you have to be a cold-hearted borderline sociopath, don't you?

Yeah. Fact of magical life...

[Landis963]

I've expressed this frustration before, but the Behaims (or at least Laird) seem to be really really asking for reprisal. What exactly does he think is going to happen?

[Madwand]

I've expressed this frustration before, but the Behaims (or at least Laird) seem to be really really asking for reprisal. What exactly does he think is going to happen?

Blake will waste his time on ineffectual attacks and make mistake in process that will kill him. Risne and repeat with next Thorburn on the list. It seems like sensible plan to me.

[jguy]

So despite us not knowing the real rules of spirits nor what a spirit could be, what is the first thing you think of when binding a spirit to be your familiar? What would you want it to be, look like, be capable of, anything and everything you can think of.

[Forum Explorer]

So despite us not knowing the real rules of spirits nor what a spirit could be, what is the first thing you think of when binding a spirit to be your familiar? What would you want it to be, look like, be capable of, anything and everything you can think of.

Hmm too many variables.

First thought was an elemental spirit of some sort. Upon consideration I'd go with something more angelic. Though I'm also liking the idea of just binding a bunch of creatures Eastern Style.

What I'm really curious about though is if diabolisists have an opposite number. Really any time a series has demons in it, this is the question I ask. So does that mean we've got angels and stuff available as well?

[Dragonus45]

Hmm too many variables.

First thought was an elemental spirit of some sort. Upon consideration I'd go with something more angelic. Though I'm also liking the idea of just binding a bunch of creatures Eastern Style.

What I'm really curious about though is if diabolisists have an opposite number. Really any time a series has demons in it, this is the question I ask. So does that mean we've got angels and stuff available as well?

Hopefully, I don't like it when a setting has the evil powers without having some form of good to countermand or offset them.

[jguy]

Okay this is my attempt at a spirit. I don't know if it is something I'd want unless I had total control over it in the first place. Funny enough, this guy has been rattling around in my head for awhile, so it is nice to give him purchase in the world in a way. Also if the name translates bad, I apologize for that.

Yattsu-ude-kuikorosu: Eight Armed Devourer

History:Despite the Japanese name, this spirit is not native to the land, simply named there in an attempt to give Practitioners power over it. Yattsu is a very old spirit, with its earliest theorized appearance to be around 250BC

Description:Even though size is relative and mutable amongst spirits, Yattsu towers over most in its natural form. Its form is best described as a mash of ogre, snake, and human. It has no legs, instead a snake tail as thick as an oak and twenty feet long, the scales a matted brownish-green. The most noticeable feature is the fact it has 8 monstrous arms erupting from its torso, each as thick as a normal man. In the palms of its hands are mouths the incessantly whisper words of paranoia and greed. On top of this mound of muscle and scales rests its disturbingly human head. Greasy, brown matted hair hangs down over its face, obscuring most of its features outside of its massive mouth containing brick-like teeth. Wide eyes stare past the tresses of its hair, darting back and forth constantly.

Spheres of Influence:Yattsu is a spirit of obsession, consumption, greed, and paranoia. It desires not only worldly possession but abstracts of it. It prefers to trade in emotions above all else, coveting pure love more than anything.

Capabilities:Yattsu is an insidious spirit, working much more subtly than something of its magnitude implies. It can induce obsession, greed, and paranoia into humans, feeding off their growing desires and fears. It prefers to work slowly; building up emotions in a person until the human is alone with the thing he or she covets most, cutting itself off from the outside world. Sometime this is simple as a child locking itself in his room with his favorite toy, not coming out for days, or it can be a man kidnapping a desired woman and locking her up in his basement. The degree of paranoia and obsession grows to such a staggering degree that the person who Yattsu is influencing sees no other way to keep its desire other than to consume it entirely so it will always be a part of them. When the human is done with its grisly meal, Yattsu saps all the obsession and paranoia away, leaving the human alone with the aftermath of what it has done. The sheer size of Yattsu should go to show how long this has been going on and how powerful it has become from it.

[Landis963]

Blake will waste his time on ineffectual attacks and make a mistake in process that will kill him. Rinse and repeat with next Thorburn on the list. It seems like a sensible plan to me.

It seems overly risky, though. Let's say it works right. Blake makes a mistake while trying to play the double game of working off the karma debt and removing Laird (esp. now that Laird's sworn to not take any deals of Blake's) and dies somehow. What is the most likely way Blake is going to die? A Behaim or Duchamp kills him? Karma hit right where one definitely should not be, not if the two heads actually care about the rest of their families (which is arguable in and of itself given that Mme Duchamp threw a hissy fit when Penny and Joanna said they wouldn't attack Blake a second time). A mortal catspaw of a Behaim or a Duchamp kills him? You run the risk of said catspaw actually talking with the Thorburn heir in question and realizing what a tool they've been (This is what Maggie did). An Other kills him? That'd be best-case, sure, but how do you orchestrate that without either noticing? (This is probably what Laird was going for outside the Starbucks that first night, in direct violation of his oath to protect Blake).

However, what all could possibly go wrong? Blake doesn't take this lying down. The catspaw, feeling used and insulted, turns on them. The Other decides to have a bit of fun with Blake's murder, and the resulting corpse is a bit too weird to explain away with "killed with tools." And lastly, and this is the big one, Blake stops caring about the debt. This is why "Bullying the Dragon" plots put a lot of strain on my suspension of disbelief. Blake, despite his unwillingness to actually use Ornias et al., is being constantly put in situations where he actually has to use them. Laird (and possibly Sandra) are risking, at most, the entire town to get a chance to say "See! Told you so! He's dangerous! And Evil! And Wicked!" It is sheer luck on their part that their quarry hasn't snapped and gone Carrie yet. And if he does, you can bet that targets numero uno and dos are those two.

Do you see what I mean?

[Forum Explorer]

It seems overly risky, though. Let's say it works right. Blake makes a mistake while trying to play the double game of working off the karma debt and removing Laird (esp. now that Laird's sworn to not take any deals of Blake's) and dies somehow. What is the most likely way Blake is going to die? A Behaim or Duchamp kills him? Karma hit right where one definitely should not be, not if the two heads actually care about the rest of their families (which is arguable in and of itself given that Mme Duchamp threw a hissy fit when Penny and Joanna said they wouldn't attack Blake a second time). A mortal catspaw of a Behaim or a Duchamp kills him? You run the risk of said catspaw actually talking with the Thorburn heir in question and realizing what a tool they've been (This is what Maggie did). An Other kills him? That'd be best-case, sure, but how do you orchestrate that without either noticing? (This is probably what Laird was going for outside the Starbucks that first night, in direct violation of his oath to protect Blake).

However, what all could possibly go wrong? Blake doesn't take this lying down. The catspaw, feeling used and insulted, turns on them. The Other decides to have a bit of fun with Blake's murder, and the resulting corpse is a bit too weird to explain away with "killed with tools." And lastly, and this is the big one, Blake stops caring about the debt. This is why "Bullying the Dragon" plots put a lot of strain on my suspension of disbelief. Blake, despite his unwillingness to actually use Ornias et al., is being constantly put in situations where he actually has to use them. Laird (and possibly Sandra) are risking, at most, the entire town to get a chance to say "See! Told you so! He's dangerous! And Evil! And Wicked!" It is sheer luck on their part that their quarry hasn't snapped and gone Carrie yet. And if he does, you can bet that targets numero uno and dos are those two.

Do you see what I mean?

That's true, except Laird is good Karma wise, and the debt Blake has is so large Laird could likely kill him and suffer minimal consequences as a result. More then likely him killing Blake just burns off more debt then Blake being killed by someone else.

What's more is Laird is confident that his defenses will be able to counter any demon that Blake brings up. While Blake is still this weak at least. He's also working on the idea that Blake is a legitimate threat, sooner or later. He was always planning on killing him, but now he can't afford to take his time. He's trying to deny Blake any allies and is trying to get Blake to make a mistake. It helps that he's allied with the other powerful faction in town.

[Madwand]

*snip*
Do you see what I mean?

No, I don' see it. First, Forum Explorer explained it quite nicely. Second, this town has other powerful practitioner. Would you imagine that Johannes will not interfere if his glorious demense could be threatened by demon?

Plus, going Carrie (this is acting like school shooters) is, contraty to popular opinion, very rare phenomenon.

[Eldan]

That's true, except Laird is good Karma wise, and the debt Blake has is so large Laird could likely kill him and suffer minimal consequences as a result. More then likely him killing Blake just burns off more debt then Blake being killed by someone else.

What's more is Laird is confident that his defenses will be able to counter any demon that Blake brings up. While Blake is still this weak at least. He's also working on the idea that Blake is a legitimate threat, sooner or later. He was always planning on killing him, but now he can't afford to take his time. He's trying to deny Blake any allies and is trying to get Blake to make a mistake. It helps that he's allied with the other powerful faction in town.

Then why not just kill him immediately? If you are going to kill him anyway, there have to be more direct ways to do that than endless taunting.

[Landis963]

No, I don' see it. First, Forum Explorer explained it quite nicely. Second, this town has other powerful practitioner. Would you imagine that Johannes will not interfere if his glorious demense could be threatened by demon?

Plus, going Carrie (this is acting like school shooters) is, contraty to popular opinion, very rare phenomenon.

First off, if Laird was as confident in his karma as Forum Explorer states, there's the "why don't you just shoot him?" problem. Second off, I wasn't talking about Johannes, I was stating the magnitude of the Behaim-Duchamp gambit. Third, going Carrie was specifically a reaction to being victimized, isolated, and humiliated over and over and over, until she snapped. Laird is attempting to do this to Blake, without leaving him the slightest escape route. Fourth, no matter what happens, if Blake snaps, most of the town goes with him. There doesn't seem to be any reason why Laird would risk it. Not when there's an easy expedient of just befriending him. (yes I know that's a hard sell when talking about diabolists, but Laird said it himself; he doesn't know who Blake is. Why not just talk with him?)

[Grek]

So, as a complete and total aside, here's a passage from the Lemegeton:

The eight great spirit is called Barbatos: he is a great duke and appears as an archer alongside four noble kings, their companions and troops. He grants the understanding of the languages of birds, dogs and other creatures, breaks open the protections laid around treasures by the enchantment of mages, and was once of the order of Virtues, which he still rules. He knows all things past and to come, reconciles friends with those in power, and rules over thirty legions of spirits. His sign appears as follows:

Spoiler

Show

Sound familiar?

[Forum Explorer]

Then why not just kill him immediately? If you are going to kill him anyway, there have to be more direct ways to do that than endless taunting.

Maybe he's planning to. He can't just kill Blake in the house and it's likely good Karma to give Blake forewarning of his intentions.

Also he managed to disrupt an alliance between Blake and Maggie just by showing up as well (though that looks like an example of Blake's bad karma in play)

Anyways so Blake might end up under active attack from Larid next time he leaves the house.

[Lamech]

I've expressed this frustration before, but the Behaims (or at least Laird) seem to be really really asking for reprisal. What exactly does he think is going to happen?

1) Laird is trying to use Blake. Make him out to the town to be some big baddy. Get everyone's eyes on him instead of the potential alliance.
2) He thinks that Blake isn't a threat.
3) Also Laird probably has various oaths from being a cop. He probably can't go too directly in the first place.
4) He is probably trying to stock up on good Karma while he is doing this as well.

In all honesty though he's being stupid. He probably thinks his defenses will hold against the Barber. However, as how Granny specifically left the Barber to use as a weapon... I'm guessing he is overconfident. Secondly, I doubt very, very much he knows about the demon lawyers. Blake could take them up on the deal to clear debt. That would be bad for everyone, AND it would wipe out the debt that the Thornburn's have next time around. (And I'm guessing lady with a family isn't going to be as conservative when it comes to dealing with threats.) Or the he could use something like Ornias. Hell, the lady offered him use of Ornias for no cost! I can't imagine he actually wants that dropped on the town.

He doesn't actually think this is a "bully the dragon" story. He thinks this is a "bully the scapegoat" story. I mean, see how no one took Blake up on his offer of truce? Blake isn't actually viewed as a threat.