Pact: A complete breakfast cereal brought to you by Wildbow [spoilers]

[Dragonus45]

I remember Faysal making a comment in his histories about how humanity could take him to pieces. I think its time to wake the town.

Its scary the lawyers aren't the only diabolist group out there.

Literally also can be used to mean figuratively. Now practitioners can once again use hyperbole if they stick literally in front of it. Huzzah!

I don't know if the spirits are keeping up with the dictionary.

[Lamech]

Feed blood to a dictionary spirit until its strong enough to convince the rest?

[Landis963]

Feed blood to a dictionary spirit until its strong enough to convince the rest?

Spirits don't work that way, sadly. They're more an institution than a single entity. The singular entities normally get names like "Boogeyman" or "Wraith" or "Angel" or "Demon" or, best case scenario, "Deity." I don't think the spirits actually listen to any one entity, not enough to change things.

[Lamech]

Well there are individual spirits. See: Corvidae. But yeah, just convincing one spirit isn't enough. Maybe if you elevated many dictionary spirits to great heights it would be enough to change things.

[Landis963]

Well there are individual spirits. See: Corvidae. But yeah, just convincing one spirit isn't enough. Maybe if you elevated many dictionary spirits to great heights it would be enough to change things.

Corvidae was a curse, that got a lot of power somehow, that got dumped into the Abyss, twice, at least, so he's some sort of bogeyman now. Labels are difficult to apply and dangerous to rely on. But the problem with convincing spirits to take "literally" as meaning something other than, well, the literal version of the verb you're applying it to is that you need to convince all the spirits. Not just the ones in some book which happens to define a lot of words in a certain language. Creating a few entities and boosting them up will only work as long as they can protect you, which is functionally identical to being forsworn (See also the indenture of the Fell family), so there's not much point.

[SlyGuyMcFly]

Spoiler: Go read the latest chapter. Now.

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Mighty Evan the Fire Bird gooooooooooooooooooooo!!



...


Oh. Right. Wildbow story.

[Dragonus45]

Spoiler: Go read the latest chapter. Now.

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Mighty Evan the Fire Bird gooooooooooooooooooooo!!



...


Oh. Right. Wildbow story.

Spoiler

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I knew it was going to happen, just knew but somehow I couldn't stop myself from reading on. I hope it isn't as bad as it looks.

[Lamech]

They get better. Mostly. I think they downed a lawyer, a demon and forced the banishment of another though. So let's do a tally of the causalities on each side.

The Bells:
They've lost the Shepherd.
Briar Girl's familiar has broken front limbs and Briar Girl took a beating along with her zombies.
The Astrologer spent two spells. Seriously she needs more spell slots.
They fired off one rocket.
The Priest spent his demesnes to get everyone tipsy. The last of his power in all honesty.

The lawyers:
One Imp got eaten. Sadly that probably means that it just fed into the second imp with no real change.
Madness Demon got crossed and smacked by Ruin Demon. Unknown if it will recover.
The Madness summoner took the hit from the connection. We have yet to see if the Lawyers can cheat the "demon damage is for realzies" rule.
Ruin demon rebounded and was banished. It can probably be resummoned sadly.

So best case scenario they have defeated... one lawyer! And his little dog demon too! The Bells have spent the Shepherd, and the Priest. Briar Girl is probably pretty low too. This does not appear to be going in their favour.

[Landis963]

They get better. Mostly. I think they downed a lawyer, a demon and forced the banishment of another though. So let's do a tally of the causalities on each side.

The Bells:
They've lost the Shepherd.
Briar Girl's familiar has broken front limbs and Briar Girl took a beating along with her zombies.
The Astrologer spent two spells. Seriously she needs more spell slots.
They fired off one rocket.
The Priest spent his demesnes to get everyone tipsy. The last of his power in all honesty.

The lawyers:
One Imp got eaten. Sadly that probably means that it just fed into the second imp with no real change.
Madness Demon got crossed and smacked by Ruin Demon. Unknown if it will recover.
The Madness summoner took the hit from the connection. We have yet to see if the Lawyers can cheat the "demon damage is for realzies" rule.
Ruin demon rebounded and was banished. It can probably be resummoned sadly.

So best case scenario they have defeated... one lawyer! And his little dog demon too! The Bells have spent the Shepherd, and the Priest. Briar Girl is probably pretty low too. This does not appear to be going in their favour.

Jeremy altered his demesne, ceded more of it to his god directly rather than through a proxy (himself). He now needs to spend more time tending it in order for it to do what he wants. But yeah, this does not seem to be going well. However, I'm not certain how exactly this differentiates it from any other encounter in the entire freaking series.

Wildbow's addiction to breakneck pacing is kind of ridiculous.

[mystic1110]

Wildbow's addiction to breakneck pacing is kind of ridiculous.

What I learned from this series is that having the cardio to run a full marathon is essential to being a Practitioner.

[Landis963]

What I learned from this series is that having the cardio to run a full marathon is essential to being a Practitioner.

Unless you're part of a practitioner family/tradition. Then you have a support structure that runs the marathon for you. Unless the tradition/family is a cabal. Then you're just f**ked regardless of how fast you run.

[mystic1110]

Unless you're part of a practitioner family/tradition. Then you have a support structure that runs the marathon for you. Unless the tradition/family is a cabal. Then you're just f**ked regardless of how fast you run.

I guess my problem with the Pactverse is I don't understand how anything has lasted even till now. If all this is happening in a remote town in Canada - what the hell is happening in New York - or other major cities.

Demons/sort-of-angels/bogeymen/incarnations/elementals should be freaking everywhere. . . I just doubt that the sort of truce that existed in Toronto could be pulled off in a major city. Too many players - and anyone of them could be holding a bomb.

[Lamech]

My theory: Recall the Tenements? How much stuff had to fall down there to make it? Could it be most cities have failed due to similar antics? The surviving ones are simply better managed by a Lord.

Jacob's Bell is in so much turmoil because everything has come to roost during the creation of the Lordship. Things are probably a lot more stable most of the time.

[Landis963]

I guess my problem with the Pactverse is I don't understand how anything has lasted even till now. If all this is happening in a remote town in Canada - what the hell is happening in New York - or other major cities.

Demons/sort-of-angels/bogeymen/incarnations/elementals should be freaking everywhere. . . I just doubt that the sort of truce that existed in Toronto could be pulled off in a major city. Too many players - and anyone of them could be holding a bomb.

Anyone considered a "major player" has a bomb of some sort, be it pyromancy, chronomancy, karma, glamour, whatever. That's how, in the absence of things to rally against, the peace is kept. A status quo is reached and adhered to until and unless demons or demonsprog are unleashed, who tend to flip the table a bit. Mutually assured destruction.

[Forum Explorer]

I think that being in a small town is actually making everything more vulnerable. Which is exacerbated by how many people are part of the practitioner families. In major cities the sheer weight of humanity (and the 'innocents') protects the city and hampers the bigger stuff that different people might try. And it never stops. Cities are active 24/7 while a small town does shut down at night.

I think the other reason is usually there is a strong Lord, who prevents this crap from happening at all. Instead of 3-4 equalish parties to try and claim it for themselves, and let their ambition destroy the prize.

[mystic1110]

I mean i can totally see why major cities wouldn't fall into the abyss - (although i'm sure there is a place there called "The City") - but if all major players have a bomb. . . . and most major players are insane. . . I don't think M.A.D. works. . . but that said - how insanely powerful would the lord of a Major City have to be? Needs to control an average of 12 Major powers (This number is taken by multiplying the Toronto major powers by the difference between NYC and Toronto populations [ New York is around 3.36 times the population of Toronto])

I do like the theory that there used to be many more cities but they have all fallen . . . .

Scary thought

[Landis963]

I mean i can totally see why major cities wouldn't fall into the abyss - (although i'm sure there is a place there called "The City") - but if all major players have a bomb. . . . and most major players are insane. . . I don't think M.A.D. works. . . but that said - how insanely powerful would the lord of a Major City have to be? Needs to control an average of 12 Major powers (This number is taken by multiplying the Toronto major powers by the difference between NYC and Toronto populations [ New York is around 3.36 times the population of Toronto])

I do like the theory that there used to be many more cities but they have all fallen . . . .

Scary thought

Most major players are differently sane, sure. However, most of these would not care to see their holdings fall into the Abyss/a demon's gullet (The Eye doesn't want to lost his playground, for instance, nor do Padraic and co. want to lose theirs). The former implies a necessary upkeep, the latter something to struggle against when and if they come to town.

[Dragonus45]

I think that what is happening here is something that most towns might have to deal with when they hit that growing point of becoming large enough to handle their own lord, but once a City comes into being and a lord is crowned it becomes much more stable.

[Landis963]

I think that what is happening here is something that most towns might have to deal with when they hit that growing point of becoming large enough to handle their own lord, but once a City comes into being and a lord is crowned it becomes much more stable.

Except with more demons, I suspect.

[Lamech]

So from Faysal's histories:

Distant, at the edge of the Abyss, I could see it. But it was humanoid. Impossible to look straight at, as space distorted around it.

Humanoid? Wait, what? I thought he was trapped in doggie form? Maybe has a plan?

[Somebloke]

So they have unseated the Barber.

They probably won't last more than five seconds, but still, an accomplishment.

Greeneyes better be okay...

[Landis963]

So they have unseated the Barber.

They probably won't last more than five seconds, but still, an accomplishment.

Greeneyes better be okay...

If they can last five seconds, they can last for a few minutes, I expect. I'm just hoping that Rose wrests control of the demesne from the Barber more permanently. Get it fighting on her side rather than the lawyers'.

[Lamech]

I don't think the Barber will be able to reclaim his seat. Rose has reasons she's a legit ruler. First she's Conquest. Second she's the Lady of the city. Third she just disproved the Barber's claim. Fourth she has the support of Jacob's Bell. Neither the Barber or the lawyers have any of that.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Smart of the lawyer to just get a whole bunch of motes instead of one big demon - I'm guessing this is how a true diabolist battles?

I'd imagine a true diabolist would be trying to avoid needing to summon things at all, preferring to summon one mote to avert battle over summoning several to kill his/her foes. But yeah.

To make analogy, if calling demons is playing with fire, then humanity is a sea shore where the sand is made entirely out of gunpowder and the angels are furiously trying to make sure that no part of the beach gets dry enough to suddenly go off.

I like this analogy.

I do hope we get a chapter showing just why working for the law firm is more horrible (not just immoral, that's a given) than suffering through demonic horrors. You would think that if they went through demonic horrors for centuries the lawyers would be worse for wear - but they all seem fine. Also you know that you eventually get out - which is a bit better than what a demonic victim gets.

Given the one recruitment we've seen, I think the firm usually goes after people who aren't in a state of mind to carefully weigh their options, whether because they're ignorant (the Thorburns, theoretically), desperate, or what-have-you.
I'm going to guess that the reasoning has to do with letting the firm getting its claws in you, leaving whatever (after)life you get afterwards worse. Possibly also something like a company-store problem, where you have to do really good not to keep getting penalties added onto your term.

Yeah, that's one of the many clever things that Darth Granny did with that letter. She was a very smart lady. I'm not sure the world is lesser for her loss, but still.

Her loss triggered the entire plot. Indirectly, it definitely is.

I mean i can totally see why major cities wouldn't fall into the abyss - (although i'm sure there is a place there called "The City") - but if all major players have a bomb. . . . and most major players are insane. . . I don't think M.A.D. works. . . but that said - how insanely powerful would the lord of a Major City have to be? Needs to control an average of 12 Major powers (This number is taken by multiplying the Toronto major powers by the difference between NYC and Toronto populations [ New York is around 3.36 times the population of Toronto])

I don't think most major powers are insane. Selfish, sure. Short-sighted, on occasion. Insane? No. Both the major players of Jacob's Bell and Toronto are sane enough to understand the value of avoiding the D in MAD.

Spoiler: Lengthy Example

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The number of major powers helps stabilize things into a few major power blocks. Cabal A isn't liked by much of anyone, but they have Dragon B on their side and their leader's sister is married to the head of Circle C, leaving them one (arguably two) ally and probably 3-4 WMDs. Meanwhile, Major Spirit D and Sphinx E are in an alliance/romance/whatever, and also working with Family F to undermine the ABC power block; D and F both have a WMD or two, and E is fast and powerful enough to ambush and kill most people. Sorcerer G and his familiar are working with Coven H, as well as Goblin King I despite the fact that G and I hate each other, because all three despise D and E. G and H don't have any WMD's, but I could release goblins everywhere (hold on a second...), which counts--that's part of why G tolerates the goblins, as it happens. Incarnation J and Temple K are sorta-kinda independent, keeping themselves as neutral as they can while trying to build relations with C and F, respectively; each could scrape together a few plagues if needed. Finally, no one messes with Witch L, because that would require pissing off the spirits of the city even if they could catch her outside her demense, and while L doesn't mess with the outside world much, she does have a fondness for B, D, and to an extent the god of K, which helps discourage people from attacking them.
If DEF attack ABC, they risk being attacked by not only the dragon, demons, and whatever C has to offer, but also face potential reprisals from GHI no matter how justified their attack, and might risk pissing off L, not to mention that J and K would side with ABC and GHI to not end up on the losing side. A band of fae passing through and deciding to give DEF a hand could easily lead to the rest of the city (except L and maybe JK) tearing DEF down if they try to leverage their advantage. And, of course, if anyone attacks anyone, they risk one of the more foolhardy members of one side or the other deciding to let loose a WMD--especially if they start to lose. No one wants that.

Not to mention that Jacob's Bell is unusually saturated with Practitioners.

I don't think the Barber will be able to reclaim his seat. Rose has reasons she's a legit ruler. First she's Conquest. Second she's the Lady of the city. Third she just disproved the Barber's claim. Fourth she has the support of Jacob's Bell. Neither the Barber or the lawyers have any of that.

Don't bring up that last one--it's arguable, and three probably works better.


So, the story's basically done.

Spoiler: Spoilers for Worm AND Pact

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Like Taylor, Blake has sacrificed basically everything. Like Taylor, Blake looks to be basically dead. Who wants to bet on if he survives in some way somehow?

[Lamech]

So Blake is all but gone... Hmm... Blake gave away a lot of his flesh, and memories. But I wonder when Ur took his memories we didn't know what he lost. But this time we know what he gave. Blake remembers what he gave Rose.

[Landis963]

Unless Chekhov's Angel shows up to pull his Self trick again, I'm not sure how Blake could get out of it. Seriously, I don't think anything else has been foreshadowed.

[Somebloke]

I'm okay with Blake not making it.

Firstly he made peace with the idea if his demise in a way that Taylor never did.

Secondly, a part of him will live on in Rose- so that softens the blow.

Finally, Taylor's survival was a pleasant surprise- if Wikdbow pulled the same trick here, it would feel a little clichéd.

[GreatWyrmGold]

You could say the same about

Spoiler: Worm Spoilers

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Taylor at the end of Worm, but that didn't stop Wildbow from pulling off some Contessa/Cauldron BS to give her a happy ending.

I hope Wildbow doesn't do that again, but...this isn't the first time Blake's come back from something that he shouldn't have.

[Somebloke]

Well we'd know soon enough.

Any thoughts on what Twig might be? We've seen Worm, Boil, Pact, Mask(?) and another one (can't remember it). Super heroes, Biopunk, Urban fantasy, Noir/suspense, and fantasy/drama. Twig sounds nature-y...

[Landis963]

Well we'd know soon enough.

Any thoughts on what Twig might be? We've seen Worm, Boil, Pact, Mask(?) and another one (can't remember it). Super heroes, Biopunk, Urban fantasy, Noir/suspense, and fantasy/drama. Twig sounds nature-y...

Face and Peer were the suspense and Fantasy sneak peeks. I think Twig is fantasy? Maybe? Can't remember where (or if) I read that.