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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Feat idea for 2E; seeking feedback

    I'm currently running a 2E game with modifications. (Some monsters are re-written, undead don't follow the standard pattern, dragons are not color-coded for the benefit of the PCs, etc.)

    One thing I've done is introduce a very small number of Feats. Each player started with one, and I intend to give them one or two more, not automatically at certain levels, but at the completion of great achievements.

    I just discovered that the d7, d14, d18, and d22 are available for $2 from Impact Miniatures, and that gave me an idea for a Feat.

    The plan is to give a Fighter a d22. Then they could pick a single skill with which they roll a d22 instead of a d20. Perhaps I could do the same with a NWP and a d18.

    How much impact would that have? I know the math - using a d22 would improve their chance to hit by X/220, where X is their probability of failure. So if they hit on a 2 or greater, the probably would go up from 19/20 to 21/22 - a change of less than half a %. But for a difficult shot, that you normally hit only on a 20, the probability of success goes up 8.6% - from 5% to 13.6%. So its impact is anywhere from almost nothing to close to a +2 to hit, depending on the circumstance.

    This has the advantage, unlike many Feats, that its impact is greater for low-level characters, and drops to very little for high-level ones, who already have enough power.

    So, how do you think it would affect the game? Would people think it was exciting enough to bother with? How would I need to adjust the encounters?

    And what impact have I not considered?

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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Feat idea for 2E; seeking feedback

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay R View Post
    I'm currently running a 2E game with modifications. (Some monsters are re-written, undead don't follow the standard pattern, dragons are not color-coded for the benefit of the PCs, etc.)

    One thing I've done is introduce a very small number of Feats. Each player started with one, and I intend to give them one or two more, not automatically at certain levels, but at the completion of great achievements.

    I just discovered that the d7, d14, d18, and d22 are available for $2 from Impact Miniatures, and that gave me an idea for a Feat.

    The plan is to give a Fighter a d22. Then they could pick a single skill with which they roll a d22 instead of a d20. Perhaps I could do the same with a NWP and a d18.

    How much impact would that have? I know the math - using a d22 would improve their chance to hit by X/220, where X is their probability of failure. So if they hit on a 2 or greater, the probably would go up from 19/20 to 21/22 - a change of less than half a %. But for a difficult shot, that you normally hit only on a 20, the probability of success goes up 8.6% - from 5% to 13.6%. So its impact is anywhere from almost nothing to close to a +2 to hit, depending on the circumstance.

    This has the advantage, unlike many Feats, that its impact is greater for low-level characters, and drops to very little for high-level ones, who already have enough power.

    So, how do you think it would affect the game? Would people think it was exciting enough to bother with? How would I need to adjust the encounters?

    And what impact have I not considered?
    Why not give a straight +1 to the roll?

    Both increase your mean result by 1. The only thing using a d22 instead of a d20 does is slightly increase your standard deviation (as well expanding the actual range of possibilities, but I'm ignoring that)

    I get that you want to use these dice, but I'm unsure of what the actual goal is of allowing players to use them, from a design perspective, that can't be done with a straight bonus.

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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Feat idea for 2E; seeking feedback

    Quote Originally Posted by Day_Dreamer View Post
    Why not give a straight +1 to the roll?

    Both increase your mean result by 1. The only thing using a d22 instead of a d20 does is slightly increase your standard deviation (as well expanding the actual range of possibilities, but I'm ignoring that)

    I get that you want to use these dice, but I'm unsure of what the actual goal is of allowing players to use them, from a design perspective, that can't be done with a straight bonus.
    Because what I want isn't a straight bonus, but a sliding scale. This gives more help when you're facing a hard-to-hit opponent, and less help when you're in good shape.

    It's almost +2 when you need a high number (18-20) to hit, gives roughly a +1 for midrange attacks (needing a 9, 10, or 11) and almost no help at all if you are already in great shape (needing a low number to hit).

    I admit that I want to use the die, but I'm mostly focused on its variable effects. (I am a professional statistician.)
    Last edited by Jay R; 2014-01-18 at 10:18 PM.

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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Feat idea for 2E; seeking feedback

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay R View Post
    Because what I want isn't a straight bonus, but a sliding scale. This gives more help when you're facing a hard-to-hit opponent, and less help when you're in good shape.

    It's almost +2 when you need a high number (18-20) to hit, gives roughly a +1 for midrange attacks (needing a 9, 10, or 11) and almost no help at all if you are already in great shape (needing a low number to hit).

    I admit that I want to use the die, but I'm mostly focused on its variable effects. (I am a professional statistician.)
    Well, from a straight design perspective I have slight dislike, if players can choose what Feats they can get. Designing something to intentionally be good for a low-level character and bad for a high-level character can result in weird effects if you're playing a continuous campaign (especially if you let players with dead PCs reroll a new character) where players who choose to be competent at fighting at a lower level are less competent at a higher level than someone who chooses feats that scale better.

    It probably won't matter, basically at all (insofar as a straight +1 wouldn't matter). Unless you're running some really weird encounters, most enemy AC should be somewhere in the middle of the road anyway, so it'll probably end up being fairly close to a static bonus (or penalty) in most situations.

    Might be fun, or not. Ask your party if it would be something they would be interested in/psyched by. You might even consider gradually uping the size of the die as players level up, so they eventually get a d26 or something with a significantly different range than a d20.

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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Feat idea for 2E; seeking feedback

    Quote Originally Posted by Day_Dreamer View Post
    Well, from a straight design perspective I have slight dislike, if players can choose what Feats they can get. Designing something to intentionally be good for a low-level character and bad for a high-level character can result in weird effects if you're playing a continuous campaign (especially if you let players with dead PCs reroll a new character) where players who choose to be competent at fighting at a lower level are less competent at a higher level than someone who chooses feats that scale better.

    It probably won't matter, basically at all (insofar as a straight +1 wouldn't matter). Unless you're running some really weird encounters, most enemy AC should be somewhere in the middle of the road anyway, so it'll probably end up being fairly close to a static bonus (or penalty) in most situations.

    Might be fun, or not. Ask your party if it would be something they would be interested in/psyched by. You might even consider gradually uping the size of the die as players level up, so they eventually get a d26 or something with a significantly different range than a d20.
    Some good thoughts. Thanks.

    Here's a little more explanation.

    It isn't bad for a high-level character; it's never bad at all. It's less good when facing an easy challenge, but what isn't? If somebody already has a 95% chance of hitting the target, I can't increase that very much. It increases it by 1/2%, which is more than a +5 sword would do.

    A high-level character facing an extremely heavily armored foe, who needs a 16 to hit, will still get roughly +1 1/2. In fact, it always reduces the probability of missing by 1/11 its current value.

    This wouldn't be a Feat that they had chose. They have been given a single Feat, with no reason to believe there will be any more. My introduction to the game said, "I intend to give each character a single 3E Feat. .... The goal of the Feat is not to make your character more generally competent, but to make him or her more competent in one specific area, to improve specific skills, or to have a unique option most people donít have."

    My idea with the die is to make their favored weapon more unique, and more interesting than a single +1 or +2. How they actually use that weapon will change, since they will be using a different die.

    Also, it's a world that has had no heroes for decades, so there are very few high-level characters. The monsters are slowly coming back, and these six people (and a few other heroes elsewhere) will be among the highest levels around. I'm trying to make them, and the world, unique.

    So far, at levels 1-3, they seem to be having fun with it.

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