Class and Level Geekery XII - Even Nerds Call Us Nerds

[Jasdoif]

I know his alignment is hiding somewhere in the index of comments but I believe its LN.

Right-Eye is True Neutral.

[littlebum2002]

Jasdoif, whenever I see anyone in any thread mention something about Rich's comments, the very next post is almost inevitably you with the link. Do you just patrol the boards waiting for someone to ask these types of questions? If so, best thread moderator ever.

[Grey Watcher]

Jasdoif, whenever I see anyone in any thread mention something about Rich's comments, the very next post is almost inevitably you with the link. Do you just patrol the boards waiting for someone to ask these types of questions? If you, best thread moderator ever.

She's slippery, that one!

[Dissection]

Out of curiosity, where does it say in On the Origin of PC's that Belkar's intelligence is less than 10?

[Toper]

Out of curiosity, where does it say in On the Origin of PC's that Belkar's intelligence is less than 10?

While breaking out of jail, he says he's not the brightest torch in the dungeon? This thread doesn't really do standards as well as it would like.

[Jasdoif]

Jasdoif, whenever I see anyone in any thread mention something about Rich's comments, the very next post is almost inevitably you with the link. Do you just patrol the boards waiting for someone to ask these types of questions?

I don't specifically go looking for those kinds of questions, no. But I read a lot of threads here, and if I see a post I know offhand can be answered by the Giant's comments, I provide a link (or links). Putting that Index of the Giant's Comments thread I curate to good use and stuff

[Peelee]

She's slippery, that one!

Took a minute, but I finally got it.

[Peelee]

Q: In which comic do the characters demonstrate having leveled?

Level
16	936

In what way did Belkar demonstrate that he was 16th level in 936? Or is this a typo?

[Jaxzan Proditor]

In what way did Belkar demonstrate that he was 16th level in 936? Or is this a typo?

This question has been raised before. In short, Zimmerwald did the math and calculated that all the members of the Order (except for Vaarsuvius) would have gained enough XP from their total encounter with Tarquin to have gained a level.

[Peelee]

This question has been raised before. In short, Zimmerwald did the math and calculated that all the members of the Order (except for Vaarsuvius) would have gained enough XP from their total encounter with Tarquin to have gained a level.

Aha. Thanks!

[Ceaon]

This question has been raised before. In short, Zimmerwald did the math and calculated that all the members of the Order (except for Vaarsuvius) would have gained enough XP from their total encounter with Tarquin to have gained a level.

Did this calculation include the assumption that Tarquin is level 21+? Seeing how we've established that we have no consensus on that yet...

Also, could we link to the relevant post and say 'forum' instead of just a comic number? This question seems to recur quite a bit.

[Grey Watcher]

Took a minute, but I finally got it.

Glad somebody did.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Did this calculation include the assumption that Tarquin is level 21+? Seeing how we've established that we have no consensus on that yet...

It does. I don't know how much that affects the calculations.

Also, could we link to the relevant post and say 'forum' instead of just a comic number? This question seems to recur quite a bit.

Sounds like a good FAQ to me.

[Ceaon]

In all actuality, while I find Zimmerwalds calculations immensely impressive, I'm not sure whether it gels with this thread's intention. It aims to explain the character actions and abilities assuming as much 3.5 raw as possible, right? But Z's calculation actually works the other way: it assumes 3.5 raw is in play and forces its outcomes on the characters, regardless of their shown actions and abilities.

In other words: even if, in a raw game, characters should have gained x experience from those challenges, it's not really proof that the comic's characters also gained that amount of experience. As long as they don't show new abilities (or state their level), it's an assumption.

Which is probably also a reason that question recurs so often.

[littlebum2002]

I disagree, I like the calculations, but I think the relevant strip numbers in the table should be a link to the relevant thread post containing the calculations.

[Peelee]

I disagree, I like the calculations, but I think the relevant strip numbers in the table should be a link to the relevant thread post containing the calculations.

I would agree with this, if only for the wording of the table; Belkar did not demonstrate having leveled in that strip. If the calculations are used to determine leveling, the calculations should be linked, until Belkar demonstrates having said level in-comic.

EDIT: And, ya know, other characters.

[Chronos]

Right, the purpose of the links is to enable quick reference to the reason for the datum. Clicking the link should take you someplace informative.

And...
we can now add a Wand of Cure Moderate Wounds to Elan's equipment, and 7 unspecified wands to Haley's. We can also see that Haley has less than a total bonus of +19 to Use Magic Device (at least as of the time that they were on the ship), since she can't 100% reliably activate a wand. It also shows that Haley has at least 1 rank, but I think we already established that.

Those are the definite points. Up for more debate:
* Elan has zero ranks in UMD, since he believes that only spellcasters can use wands.
* Haley's total bonus to UMD is less than +18, since she can fail while still showing a marked improvement over previous attempts.
* Haley leveled up while on the airship, since her training with V represents the process of assigning points into UMD.
* Bandana doesn't use wands (definite), though I suppose she might have some lying around in loot she hasn't bothered to liquidate yet. And she's probably a rogue, since Haley asks her to back her up on proper roguish behavior. I don't know if we're tracking Bandana, but it's something.

[Kornaki]

I think this strip clearly represents Haley getting at least one addditional rank in use magic device (bringing her up to 8+), though I would understand if people disagree with adding it.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I think this strip clearly represents Haley getting at least one additional rank in use magic device (bringing her up to 8+), though I would understand if people disagree with adding it.

I think that her ranks should be "min 8, max 19 18," as per the above reasonings (e.g. she has improved, but can still misfire).

GW

Edit: See Kornaki's correction below

[Kornaki]

Shouldn't that be max 18? Since you get to add at least 1 from the d20.

[Chronos]

Please note that what we know is that her total bonus is at most +18. Her Cha modifier is anywhere from +1 to +4, per our current information, and that also gets added in.

[With a box]

Now we can say that one of her wands is wand of Obscuring Mist.

[Crusher]

I assume this will be addressed in-strip soon, but any early guesses as to what Crystal actually is now? There's definitely something... oh, lets go with "different" about her in the current strip. She seems little too chatty to be a zombie or construct, but if she's the result of a raise dead, they might want to get their money back.

Edit - Just adding in some specific points.

- She's purple now, which clearly means something but I have no idea what.
- Crystal got pretty cut up during the fight with Belkar, and Haley obvious stabbed her to death, but even so she's got a *lot* of very visible stitching, much more so than you'd have expected from what we saw in-strip.
- She just about launched Elan into another strip with that haymaker, and its clearly set-up to demonstrate that she's *really* strong. While her previous appearances gave no reason to think that she was weak (and you'd expect at least a half-way decent STR score on an Assassin), there was no indication she was *this* strong.
- You know, she really does kinda look like a flesh golem. Maybe they raised Grubwiggler, or found a capable apprentice, or a competitor, and decided to flesh-golem her instead of raise her for whatever reason? She could have been programmed with a few basic Haley-specific insults to use during battle. Doesn't seem like that would be cheaper than a Raise Dead, but maybe it is. We'll probably find out pretty soon.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Some theories that have come up in the strip discussion thread that seem to be popular are Revenant and cadaver golem.

[Kurald Galain]

For everybody's information, I'm offline this week because of the holiday season, and will be back to updating the top post next weekend (e.g. with Haley's shiny new wands). Happy (and geeky) holidays all!

[Shadowscale]

Do we know enough about Bandanna yet to add her to the list of characters?

[Steven]

We know her name and hair colour. I suppose she might be a rogue based on what Haley said about wands. We have no indication of her level or stats at this point except that she has less points in whatever skill Haley used to get a better deal for the repairs than Haley does.

So I'd go with no unless I've missed something I don't think we have any geekery to add to the thread about Bandanna.

[MartianInvader]

We can also see that Haley has less than a total bonus of +19 to Use Magic Device (at least as of the time that they were on the ship), since she can't 100% reliably activate a wand.

* Haley leveled up while on the airship, since her training with V represents the process of assigning points into UMD.

I think one of these points must be true, but I don't see evidence to show which one. In other words, the wand failure could have happened during the process of assigning points to UMD, but before enough points had been assigned to guarantee success. Alternately, Haley could have not leveled up, and still has less than a +19, but I'm not convinced one way or the other here.

[dps]

I assume this will be addressed in-strip soon, but any early guesses as to what Crystal actually is now? There's definitely something... oh, lets go with "different" about her in the current strip. She seems little too chatty to be a zombie or construct, but if she's the result of a raise dead, they might want to get their money back.

Edit - Just adding in some specific points.

- She's purple now, which clearly means something but I have no idea what.

She got ahold of the Three-Course-Dinner Gum.

[Psyren]

Apologies if this was already mentioned, but should we update the Vector Legion entry to show that Tarquin's axe

Spoiler: Blood Runs In the Family bonus strip

Show

is intelligent, named "Soul-Muncher" and only works for evil characters? (And also that it's ego score was high enough to completely take over Belkar, but not high enough to get Elan and Roy.

(Also: Elan has ranks in Perform/Knowledge (Riddles) - not sure which.)