EMPIRE! A Community World-Building Game II: 2 Quest, 2 Curious

[Lord_Burch]

I have a question regarding resources, and how they relate to military. I will use SamBurke's latest IC post as an example.

He raised 3,000 troops this round, 1,000 of which were equipped with brass. Now, how would brass compare, to, say iron? Or steel, or Mithril? And, since he only has one other metal, steel, which even though he has not said is used as equipment, let's assume it is. That leaves 1000 men who have no specified metal equipped. Do they just receive no bonus to combat?
Another related question. Are Mithril and adamant better than other common metals, such as brass, steel, or iron, say providing a +2 as compared to a +1?

[SamBurke]

I have a question regarding resources, and how they relate to military. I will use SamBurke's latest IC post as an example.

He raised 3,000 troops this round, 1,000 of which were equipped with brass. Now, how would brass compare, to, say iron? Or steel, or Mithril? And, since he only has one other metal, steel, which even though he has not said is used as equipment, let's assume it is. That leaves 1000 men who have no specified metal equipped. Do they just receive no bonus to combat?
Another related question. Are Mithril and adamant better than other common metals, such as brass, steel, or iron, say providing a +2 as compared to a +1?

Brass is already stated to be equal to Iron.

I need to edit in that another of them is using my steel, too.

[zabbarot]

@The Wombat, could you update Genivana's religion to Radurja on the charts >.> Also maybe put the lumber for adamantine trade between myself and Gunung on the other chart.

[Shnur]

Scla´ca
Region 27, Shnur
__
Link to rolls:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...postcount=3087


Kach´tu, Chief of Scla´ca

Current Stats:
Diplomacy: 4
Military: 2
Curiosity: 2
Faith: 4+1=5
Luck: 1


Region Details

Spoiler: Terrain

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Thanks to monsoon rains, land of Scla´ca is covered by tropical forest. There is only small fertile area in the north of region which can feed just small part of Scla´ca population. Rest of population depends on sea in the east or on hunting in rainforest in central and south part of Scla´ca. There are also mountains in the west, which blocks path to salt desert. People of Scla´ca usually avoid large lake in the north-west, because its water is poisoned by salt and our people believe that terrible creatures live in the lake.

Roaring Mountain: Worst insult in Scla´ca language can be translated like: “May screaming monkey tears out your heart.“ This monkey-shaped mountain brings fear to hearts of Scla´ca people for centuries. One old legend says that Roaring mountain is in fact petrified skull of actual monster. It says that two thousands year ago gigantic monkey attacked lizardfolk settlements and killed almost all of them. Only few survivors escaped deep to the forest. Last surviving shaman came with idea, they sacrificed five monkey to spirits of nature, but with no efect. In desperate situation they used last desperate means, they sacrificed five lizardfolk. In very same moment large black stone have fallen from the sky and killed monster. Now, this stone lies forty kilometers on the south-east from Roaring mountain and is subject of worshiping.

The Sky Stone: This stone lies in center of Scla´ca land. It´s gift of nature to lizardfolk which, according to legends spread by shamans, has magical power. It should protect lizardfolk from destroying in case of need. This stone, according to another legend, killed famous Monster and created Roaring Mountain. It´s twenty meters long and five meters high black stone, situated in big crater. The Sky Stone is most sacred place for Scla´ca people and many of them come here to touch him and say their wishes. They should come true.

Deep Forest: Rainforest which covers most of land of Scla´ca in called simply Deep Forest. This forest provides us with most of our resources. Meat and fruit is consumed mostly by locals, but it also provides tropical wood for trade. Many people believes that in south, deep in forest lies territory of horrible monsters or ruins of ancient civilizations, but only few hunters finds courage to go that far.

Spoiler: People

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Population: 23 000 (Lizardfolk)

Population of Scla´ca consist almost only of lizardfolk. There are few human merchants in the north which buy tropical wood and gold, but they are not very significant. Scla´ca people are divided in many tribes and were united under one flag only few years ago. Main power in Scla´ca holds ruler, but most of decisions are made by meeting of tribe leaders. Scla´ca holds together only thanks to strong leader and is in permanent danger of dissolving.

Appearance: Due to hard environment, Scla´ca people are well-built and agile. Body of all lizardfolk is covered by scales. Most of them has dark green scales, sometimes with brown spots or strips. This colour provide them great camouflage in forest. Leaders of tribes have more noticeable colouration, usually orange or red stripes.

Scla´ca lizardfolk are usually 180 centimeters high, with no difference between male and female. They have very long hands and legs and excel in running and climbing.

Scla´ca lizardfolk prefere wearing just a little clothes, most of them made by skin of animals from Deep Forest. Tribe leaders wear usually clothes decorated by feathers of tropical birds.

Scla´ca lizardfolk don´t have any hair and are cold-blooded.

Scla´ca lizardfolk reach maturity usually in 10 years and rarely live more than 50 years. Thanks to using of medical herbs, shamans can live much longer, but rarely reach 80 years.

Culture: Culture of Scla´ca is various, depends on each tribe. All tribes have shamanistic religion, they worship nature, soil and sky. Religion isn´t centralized, but shares similar legends and customs. All lizardfolk worship The Sky Stone and often visit it.

There are various rituals, shamans use herbs from Deep Forest to get into trance. They have visions in such trance and some says that they can see future. These rituals are kept in secret, but shamans are willing to sell herbs even to foreigners.

Dealing with Scla´ca lizardfolk is very difficult, because they tend to be very impuslive. They also usually pretend to be simpleminded, mainly if they talk to foreigners.

Combat techniques of Scla´ca lizardfolk are pretty simple. They use mainly spears, sometimes with shield. Few of them also uses bows, usually along with strong poisons. They usually wears hide armor, but some also fights without any armor. As battle tactics they prefere ambush enemy, rather than straight confrontation.

Lizardfolk possess only little property, so heritage is usually solved by shamans or tribe leaders. Property is usually divided equally to all relatives.
In case of tribe leaders there is different tradition. All children have roght to take part in ritual of heritage. Who refuse to take part, loses right to heritage. Ritual of heritage is basically fight to death, until only one heir remains. Is pretty common that only strongest child is willing to participate, but in some cases almost whole family dies in this ritual. This ritual should ensure, that only most capable will lead tribe.

Spoiler: Resources

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Exports:
Tropical wood (good)
Gold (good)
Herbs (medical, poisonous etc.) (good)

Imports
Stone (required)
Iron (desired)

Most of riches of Scla´ca comes from Deep Forest. This large rainforest provides us with wood of tropical trees in very good quality. Also many obscure herbs are gathered by our shamans, which mix them into various alchemical potions or trade them to foreigners. Our last treasure comes from mountains in the west. Western mountains posses great deposits of gold, which is used on ritual items or for trade.
Unfortunately, there is lack of high-quality stone in the land of Scla´ca. There is also great desire for iron, which would improve our military and agricultural.

Spoiler: Religion

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Religion of Scla´ca is mainly animistic, we worship nature, sky and land. Our religion isn´t organized, every tribe has its own independent shamans. However legends, traditions and rituals are more or less same in every tribe. Rituals of Scla´ca are various, but most important is ritual of The Sky Stone. Every year, after end of rainy season all shamans and tribe leaders meet at The Sky Stone, where they consume various herbs and usually have visions, in which they speak with spirits of nature. Scla´ca shamans are very skillful in dealing with herbs from Deep forest.

There are some rumors, that new ruler of Scla´ca wants introduce more organized form of religion, in order to consolidate still unstable Scla´ca.

Spoiler: Technologies

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There is only basic technology in land of Scla´ca. We are more or less still uncivilized nation, and our path to civilization will be long and hard.

Spoiler: Leadership

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Kach´tu, Chief of Scla´ca Age: 32
Kach´tu is lizardfolk, little smaller than average lizardfolk. His scales are dark green, with two big red strips on his back.
Life of Kach´tu was very difficult, he was small and weak in world of strength. As son of tribe leader, after his death, he had right to take part in ritual of heritage, but noone expected it, his brother was bigger and stronger. In fight to death, he was suprisingly able to defeat his brother and tear his heart out. After that, he started uniting of Scla´ca. He was able to mix clever diplomacy with using of force and after seven years, Scla´ca was formed. He was ruling Scla´ca for five years, when first people came from north. After this unexpected event, he realized that he have to establish diplomatic relations with rest of the world.
He is determined to establish strong and centralize state, but his way will be long and with small chance of succes.

Sacata Age: 25
Sacata is wife of Kach´tu. She is daughter of Noch´tu, leader of one of the strongest tribes of Scla´ca. She married Kach´tu as part of agreement of Kach´tu and her father. Their marriage should ensure stability of Scla´ca, but thanks to arranged marriage, there is only little love between them. However, she is faithful wife and mainly takes care about their child.


Na´tu Age: 5
Only child of Kach´tu and Sacata. One of the possible future leaders of Scla´ca. As name suggest, he is male.

Hopefully without big grammatical errors.
edit: My family tree: http://www.familyecho.com/?p=START&c...33361443185874

[Lord_Burch]

Brass is already stated to be equal to Iron.

I need to edit in that another of them is using my steel, too.

So is iron the baseline, then, with steel being a +1, Mithril and adamant one +2?

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Brass is already stated to be equal to Iron.

I need to edit in that another of them is using my steel, too.

Ummm...aren't you thinking of Bronze, sam?

@The Wombat, could you update Genivana's religion to Radurja on the charts >.> Also maybe put the lumber for adamantine trade between myself and Gunung on the other chart.

I haven't done trades yet, I'll be working on that once I get rid of repetetiveness within my posts. Trying to make my job easier.

So is iron the baseline, then, with steel being a +1, Mithril and adamant one +2?

From what I understand, you need the technology to turn Iron into Steel. That means a research - curiousity 10. Otherwise, it's just Iron. The metal tech has not been specified by Morph as of yet.

[Lord_Burch]

So no one has access to what I'll call advanced metals- steel, Mithril, and adamantine, which should provide, what, +1 enhancement?- except for the UN.

[Morph Bark]

@Logic, I sent Silverbit a PM about it. Also I'm fine with what you've got. Feel free to finalize it at your leisure.

@Morph, regarding the future(present?) change to conversion we talked about and the current rules, should a ruler take an action to convert their own populace?

So ~1500 Genivanans are Seekers of Radurja. Could I use an action to increase that?

Yes.

And wait, there are only 3000 Genivanans total? Did a mass ritual suicide/homicide happen?

I have a question regarding resources, and how they relate to military. I will use SamBurke's latest IC post as an example.

He raised 3,000 troops this round, 1,000 of which were equipped with brass. Now, how would brass compare, to, say iron? Or steel, or Mithril? And, since he only has one other metal, steel, which even though he has not said is used as equipment, let's assume it is. That leaves 1000 men who have no specified metal equipped. Do they just receive no bonus to combat?
Another related question. Are Mithril and adamant better than other common metals, such as brass, steel, or iron, say providing a +2 as compared to a +1?

So is iron the baseline, then, with steel being a +1, Mithril and adamant one +2?

Brass, bronze, iron and steel all add no bonus.

Any technologies only add a +1. Mithril and adamantium are examples of such technologies, and thus add +1 (for armies as a whole, not per unit, mind you). Steel doesn't add a +1 so far, but as it requires two resources (Iron and Coal), perhaps it should count. Hmmm, thinking.

EDIT: I'm thinking no. It would essentially be an exception to the established rules, and the less exceptions the better. Steel (or Iron and Coal seperately) may be necessary for development of some technologies that irl were developed during Industrial times and up to WWII, especially stuff like tanks (unless you have a more suitable metal), but on its own it grants no bonus.

From what I understand, you need the technology to turn Iron into Steel. That means a research - curiousity 10. Otherwise, it's just Iron. The metal tech has not been specified by Morph as of yet.

Steel was around during ancient times, though it was never capable of being mass-produced until the 1700s. Then again, practically nothing was mass-produced until near 1800 and over.

Which means that anyone with access to Iron and Coal natively or through trade can make steel by just spending a Curiosity action (not even a special action) to research it and set stuff up for it.

Hopefully without big grammatical errors.

Looks great! Love how you worked it out. There are grammatical and some spelling errors around, but it's all pretty easily understood, at least by me. Good job! Feel free to jump right in. Wombat, Way and I will proceed to include Scla'ca in the tables as soon as we can.

[SamBurke]

Ummm...aren't you thinking of Bronze, sam?



I haven't done trades yet, I'll be working on that once I get rid of repetetiveness within my posts. Trying to make my job easier.



From what I understand, you need the technology to turn Iron into Steel. That means a research - curiousity 10. Otherwise, it's just Iron. The metal tech has not been specified by Morph as of yet.

I would love to have that tech stuff finalized.

[Lord_Burch]

So, what about that last 1000 men of SamBurke's? Do they not get trained, because he does not have the metals for it?

[Morph Bark]

So, what about that last 1000 men of SamBurke's? Do they not get trained, because he does not have the metals for it?

What 1000 men specifically?

Also, reposting since you posted both while I was editing:

Brass, bronze, iron and steel all add no bonus.

Any technologies only add a +1. Mithril and adamantium are examples of such technologies, and thus add +1 (for armies as a whole, not per unit, mind you). Steel doesn't add a +1 so far, but as it requires two resources (Iron and Coal), perhaps it should count. Hmmm, thinking.

EDIT: I'm thinking no. It would essentially be an exception to the established rules, and the less exceptions the better. Steel (or Iron and Coal seperately) may be necessary for development of some technologies that irl were developed during Industrial times and up to WWII, especially stuff like tanks (unless you have a more suitable metal), but on its own it grants no bonus.

[Lord_Burch]

Spoiler

Show

1. Secret [MILITARY]
2. Raise 1 Land Unit (Bronze, like all of the others) [MILITARY]
3. Raise 1 Land Unit (Using my Steel from Gunung)[MILITARY]
4. Raise 1 Land Unit [MILITARY]
5. My Ships in the Eastern Sea travel south to attempt to find habitable land, and/or a way to sail across the continent to the Western Ocean. [CURIOSITY]

This 1000 men. There is no metal available for use to equip them.

[zabbarot]

Yes.

And wait, there are only 3000 Genivanans total? Did a mass ritual suicide/homicide happen?

I seem to have eaten a zero there.

That is good to know though.

[Lord_Burch]

I seem to have eaten a zero there.

That is good to know though.

You mistook it for a donut too? Man, I do that all the time.

[Zap Dynamic]

A lightning storm with bolts of green, pink, gold and bright blue has been seen across a span of two days on the horizon from the coasts of Qarimos, Raaneka, Lyradis, Guilder and Domhan Abhaile.

In what year did this happen? Thanks!

[Morph Bark]

This 1000 men. There is no metal available for use to equip them.

Yes there is. There's plenty to equip them, even if SamBurke didn't specifically note what he equipped them with (presumably bronze, as is standard for his troops, considering his words with his bronze-equipped troops).

In what year did this happen? Thanks!

346.

[Lord_Burch]

Yes there is. There's plenty to equip them, even if SamBurke didn't specifically note what he equipped them with (presumably bronze, as is standard for his troops, considering his words with his bronze-equipped troops).

Ah, I just realized my error. I'm so used to the UN as far as trade goes that I didn't think that you could have more than one stack.

EDIT: Also, where did this goblin nation spring from in Waylander's post?

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Alright folks! I've updated the leadership post! I've gotten rid of maintaining all of your Family Trees for you. I'll keep track of your current ruler, as well as a post or family tree program you might keep track of it yourself. However, please note, if you do not keep track of it in some capacity, you'll find yourself backed into a corner with no heir to speak of. Please in some capacity maintain your family tree. It's pretty easy to manage on the Family Tree site, but you can do it manually as well. If you want to copy morph's method, you can always go to the previous thread and copy it from there.

Alright, so next up, working on the resource and country post.

ALSO! If you notice in the rulers list, it shows ages. Please let me know your rulers age so I can add it in! That way, we can keep track of rulers that are getting past their prime or life span.

(I know some or all of this might be listed in your country posts, but I haven't had a chance to go through everyones post yet, so adding it here for me would save me loads of time. )

[Arkhosia]

I'm probably going to focus a bit on faith actions next round.
I find Weiss's lack of faith... disturbing.

[Morph Bark]

Ah, I just realized my error. I'm so used to the UN as far as trade goes that I didn't think that you could have more than one stack.

EDIT: Also, where did this goblin nation spring from in Waylander's post?

The idea of stacks being required for equipping troops was dropped. It was in an earlier draft that never made it into the rules, because it would otherwise require keeping track of what equipment every single unit has, and that is just completely unmanageable.

The goblin nation is the aboveground portion of region 15. Keldagrim turned out to be only the belowground region 15, so they were added in.

I'm probably going to focus a bit on faith actions next round.
I find Weiss's lack of faith... disturbing.

A high priestess with low Faith? Sounds like a recipe for drama!

*totally not imagining a primetime dramedy surrounding Weiss*

[Lord_Burch]

Lord David will be 47 by the end of this round Wombat.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Lord David will be 47 by the end of this round Wombat.

So he is currently 42, then, correct?

[Arkhosia]

So he is currently 42, then, correct?

Of course!

[SamBurke]

This 1000 men. There is no metal available for use to equip them.

Yes there is. There's plenty to equip them, even if SamBurke didn't specifically note what he equipped them with (presumably bronze, as is standard for his troops, considering his words with his bronze-equipped troops).

Thanks for making this decision. It's so much easier on us.

[Zap Dynamic]

ALSO! If you notice in the rulers list, it shows ages. Please let me know your rulers age so I can add it in! That way, we can keep track of rulers that are getting past their prime or life span.

(I know some or all of this might be listed in your country posts, but I haven't had a chance to go through everyones post yet, so adding it here for me would save me loads of time. )

Lady Aditi and Lord Devdan were both born in 316. They were both 30 at the beginning of this round, and will be 35 by the end.

EDIT: Just noticed the succession details as well. Raaneki believe that leadership is not a lonely position, and are pretty nationalistic. Succession goes to the eldest married couple with at least 50% Raaneki ancestry on both sides.

[QuintonBeck]

At the end of round three/beginning of this round Kal "Doomkhan" Ignato is 47.

What are we considering close to death? 70s? or are we going with gritty everyone is covered in muck and disease because its middle ages-esque and likely to die in their mid to late 50s if they are lucky enough to have money to afford what passes for medical treatment? Hmm, if we do go that way I feel like more curiosity actions might be taken to keep people from dying of disease instead of imagining new engines of war and colonization.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

New Ruler Rolls

VEEEEEEEEEEEERY interesting... The dice gods strike again.

Lyra will be heir. And her brothers won't likely be happy about that. I have to fiddle around with things...

Diplomacy: [3] +1 = 4
Military: [3]
Curiousity: [1] +1 = 2
Faith: [4]
Luck: [3] +1 = 4

[SamBurke]

Alright folks! I've updated the leadership post! I've gotten rid of maintaining all of your Family Trees for you. I'll keep track of your current ruler, as well as a post or family tree program you might keep track of it yourself. However, please note, if you do not keep track of it in some capacity, you'll find yourself backed into a corner with no heir to speak of. Please in some capacity maintain your family tree. It's pretty easy to manage on the Family Tree site, but you can do it manually as well. If you want to copy morph's method, you can always go to the previous thread and copy it from there.

Alright, so next up, working on the resource and country post.

ALSO! If you notice in the rulers list, it shows ages. Please let me know your rulers age so I can add it in! That way, we can keep track of rulers that are getting past their prime or life span.

(I know some or all of this might be listed in your country posts, but I haven't had a chance to go through everyones post yet, so adding it here for me would save me loads of time. )

My ruler's age is roughly 51.

[Morph Bark]

At the end of round three/beginning of this round Kal "Doomkhan" Ignato is 47.

What are we considering close to death? 70s? or are we going with gritty everyone is covered in muck and disease because its middle ages-esque and likely to die in their mid to late 50s if they are lucky enough to have money to afford what passes for medical treatment? Hmm, if we do go that way I feel like more curiosity actions might be taken to keep people from dying of disease instead of imagining new engines of war and colonization.

DnD has old age starting at 70, but is also high magic, and it also models a bit too closely to real life perhaps. However, circumstances are probably better than the Middle Ages. (They were pretty clean as people, but their cities were cramped and not as clean.) I figure from the 60s onwards there is a very real chance of death by old age

New Ruler Rolls

VEEEEEEEEEEEERY interesting... The dice gods strike again.

Lyra will be heir. And her brothers won't likely be happy about that. I have to fiddle around with things...

Diplomacy: [3] +1 = 4
Military: [3]
Curiousity: [1] +1 = 2
Faith: [4]
Luck: [3] +1 = 4

Isn't Lyra married/betrothed to boot?

Either way, very interesting that the oddball option is the one that ended up on top.


EDIT: How does anyone feel about little OOC challenges resulting in (small) IC benefits (that you could've otherwise gotten with a single in-game action)?

[zabbarot]

ALSO! If you notice in the rulers list, it shows ages. Please let me know your rulers age so I can add it in! That way, we can keep track of rulers that are getting past their prime or life span.

(I know some or all of this might be listed in your country posts, but I haven't had a chance to go through everyones post yet, so adding it here for me would save me loads of time. )

So when I originally started fluffing my nation I threw out some dates, then went back and crunched them... so uh... I decided Mawa live a bit longer than humans. Average lifespan for a mawa is about 120 because I didn't think before I picked dates...

Anyways, Zeburi passed away this round at 92 (human ancestry pulls that max age down)

Mosi II is 68 years old in 346 and I rolled his max age to be 89 (70+3d10 because it made enough sense) >.>

Edit: Hopefully the Great Ancestor will keep him alive long enough to finish his work @_@