Relationship Woes and Advice 25: Now with extra Valentine

[Xapi]

So, I talked to my wife yesterday.

It seems the problem isn't what I told her I did, but that she doesn't believe me when I tell her nothing happened.

We're kinda separated for the time being. She claims that part of her believes me and part of her doesn't.

This is really bad, I come from separated parents, I don't want my son to go through that...

[dehro]

It's not a nice question but, is there a reason why she shouldn't trust men in general or you in particular?

[Xapi]

Men in general, maybe, not that she was hurt too badly (we've been going out since she was 19) but her brother is basically a proud cheater, as are many men in her family.

Me, in particular, no. I have been caught on some little lies, but I'm 100% open to her "scrutiny" (my email and facebook are left open at home, she picks up my phone whenever she wants to, etc.) and I've always come out clean. I'm a person with strong moral values (IE: Don't steal, don't cheat someone out of something, do the right thing, help others, think of others before yourself) and she knows this (and sometimes even criticized it when I don't "take advantage" of situations). I also never cheated, but I guess only I really know that.

[dehro]

Men in general, maybe, not that she was hurt too badly (we've been going out since she was 19) but her brother is basically a proud cheater, as are many men in her family.

Me, in particular, no. I have been caught on some little lies, but I'm 100% open to her "scrutiny" (my email and facebook are left open at home, she picks up my phone whenever she wants to, etc.) and I've always come out clean. I'm a person with strong moral values (IE: Don't steal, don't cheat someone out of something, do the right thing, help others, think of others before yourself) and she knows this (and sometimes even criticized it when I don't "take advantage" of situations). I also never cheated, but I guess only I really know that.

then it seems to me that the problem is in the largest part on her side and rests on the expectations that a somewhat macho-oriented society, reinforced by the examples in her family have placed upon her.
no, I'm not saying this to apportion blame, just to point at the specific issue... trouble is, I have no idea how to remedy to her misunderstanding of your character and behaviour, other than by saying you should continue to be open about things and if she insists in accusing you, occasionally confront her with verifiable facts and the notion that there is no reason other than her own suspicions to believe you to be cheating.
IUf that doesn't stop what is fundamentally her lack of confidence in herself and in men in general, then maybe try to talk to someone you know she trusts implicitly (but only if you share that trust yourself).. and see if you can both come up with some sort of proof/confirmation/anecdote that would confirm your integrity in her eyes.
However, do consider this option only as a last resort, and only if the relationship between you two is otherwise in danger.
In fact, a professional/unbiased third party would probably be better, but I don't know if that's a feasible option.. and you trying to talk her into going to some sort of counselor to "cure her from her jealousy" doesn't sound right, however nicely you may try to put it, because that's most likely exactly how she'd take it

[Jallorn]

This is really bad, I come from separated parents, I don't want my son to go through that...

I'd like to respond to this point by saying that one of the best decisions my parents ever made for myself and my siblings was to separate. I'm not saying that's the case for you, but separated parents doesn't have to be a nightmare. Just make it clear at the time of separation that you care deeply for your childrens' upbringing, and don't want anything between the two of you to get in the way of their wellbeing and happiness. Then commit to that as fully and completely as possible.

Again, not advocating separation, just saying that it doesn't have to be the nightmare it can be.

[TFT]

Spoiler: Ranting

Show

I feel like a fish out of water.

I guess I should start with the good news: I am definitely dating by this point.

(That didn't come from a conversation about it though. We were joking around a bit and she mentioned "this situation" where it would only make sense for dating. This does mean we still haven't had a straight conversation about the relationship either. At least it's clear enough now.)

However, the way this whole thing started and the ambiguity of everything until yesterday has thrown off a couple parts of the relationship, mainly in terms of physical affection. I'm not a very physical guy in general. The girl I'm dating noticed this and told me she's tried to be a bit more careful with physical contact because of it. (I did tell her she didn't need to worry about it, but I think she still does a bit because she doesn't want me to be uncomfortable) What I don't think she realized is that I was reducing my physical contact on top of not being a very physical guy because of the ambiguity of the situation on my end. This combined with the fact that I've never done the dating thing(Which I also don't think she knows) completely threw off the natural progression of the relationship on that end. I do want it to progress, but I don't know how and both sides having attempted to/currently are attempting to be less physical for the other side's sake makes the whole situation really weird.

And yea, I know the best way to deal with this would be just to sit down and have a conversation about it. But even the fact that we were dating was confirmed in a fairly roundabout way so I guess I don't know how to approach the topic without it being completely awkward. So now I just really feel out of me element. I just feel rather stupid about the entire thing.

[Jallorn]

Spoiler: Ranting

Show

I feel like a fish out of water.

I guess I should start with the good news: I am definitely dating by this point.

(That didn't come from a conversation about it though. We were joking around a bit and she mentioned "this situation" where it would only make sense for dating. This does mean we still haven't had a straight conversation about the relationship either. At least it's clear enough now.)

However, the way this whole thing started and the ambiguity of everything until yesterday has thrown off a couple parts of the relationship, mainly in terms of physical affection. I'm not a very physical guy in general. The girl I'm dating noticed this and told me she's tried to be a bit more careful with physical contact because of it. (I did tell her she didn't need to worry about it, but I think she still does a bit because she doesn't want me to be uncomfortable) What I don't think she realized is that I was reducing my physical contact on top of not being a very physical guy because of the ambiguity of the situation on my end. This combined with the fact that I've never done the dating thing(Which I also don't think she knows) completely threw off the natural progression of the relationship on that end. I do want it to progress, but I don't know how and both sides having attempted to/currently are attempting to be less physical for the other side's sake makes the whole situation really weird.

And yea, I know the best way to deal with this would be just to sit down and have a conversation about it. But even the fact that we were dating was confirmed in a fairly roundabout way so I guess I don't know how to approach the topic without it being completely awkward. So now I just really feel out of me element. I just feel rather stupid about the entire thing.

Word of advice: throw out the idea of a, "natural progression." It's not necessary, nor especially useful. It's fine to strive for, since it's familiar and clearer than what is more likely to happen, but don't be disappointed if your relationship doesn't look like that, and don't let it throw you off too much. Relationships all evolve and look different.

Think about how differently some of your friendships (probably) developed and evolved, or your friends' friendships. People are weird, cool, quirky, chaotic things, and they interact and mesh together in unique ways. Romantic relationships are like that too.

That said, a little awkwardness is going to happen, but if you sit down and say, "So we're officially dating now, right?" the awkwardness won't last long, and you'll feel so much better afterwards. Don't let past ambiguities and uncertainties prevent you from clearing up future ones. Focus not on your missteps, but on the steps you need to make to get back to the path you want to be on.

[Coidzor]

TFT, you need to go look up Erica Moen's comic on consent, I think, and maybe take a gander at the resources that she links to in the accompanying author's comments section. Full disclosure, it does contain some cartoonish nudity and sexuality, so I can't link to it directly, but that should help you with the conversation to just talk to one another about what you want to do, because if you both know you're holding back for the sake of the other then, well, quit that ****, it's dumb, especially when talking to one another more will resolve it and you had to have talked to one another to figure out that you were both holding back in the first place.

Naturally she's not going to realize things unless you tell her though, so you need to actually tell her how you feel and where you're coming from and what you want. So just sit down with her and say you want to make sure where both of you are and see what can be done to get you on the same page about the situation between the two of you. If you're already an item or close enough for there to have been confusion on the subject, then awkwardness be damned, that stuff will clear up in like 5 minutes of starting to clear the air between the two of you and actually expressing yourself and attempting to work through things like some kind of facsimilie of a semi-mature adult is a good thing and you don't want to be with someone who'd be turned off by that anyway.

Xapi, I don't even know, but good luck, man. I hope you're going through some kind of couple's therapy or relationship counseling because it sounds like that's the next step at this point if she's talking about separating over a throwaway mention of a woman from a half-decade ago. Although talking about how it felt good to be wanted by someone other than your spouse is generally a bad idea and to be avoided anyway, that level of response to it is... deeply worrisome.

[RabbitHoleLost]

Xapi throwing in my voice to the whole "staying together for the kids" is the worst thing you can do for a child
It's a thousand times worse growing up with parents who fight all the time and are bitter than growing up with separated parents

[Knaight]

Me, in particular, no. I have been caught on some little lies, but I'm 100% open to her "scrutiny" (my email and facebook are left open at home, she picks up my phone whenever she wants to, etc.) and I've always come out clean. I'm a person with strong moral values (IE: Don't steal, don't cheat someone out of something, do the right thing, help others, think of others before yourself) and she knows this (and sometimes even criticized it when I don't "take advantage" of situations). I also never cheated, but I guess only I really know that.

Her scrutiny is completely ridiculous. Her having routine access to your email, your face book, your call records, and your texts is setting off alarm bells. She sounds like an extremely controlling person - if you weren't married and didn't have a kid, I'd be recommending dumping her and getting the heck out of the situation.

[Jermz]

So, I talked to my wife yesterday.

It seems the problem isn't what I told her I did, but that she doesn't believe me when I tell her nothing happened.

We're kinda separated for the time being. She claims that part of her believes me and part of her doesn't.

This is really bad, I come from separated parents, I don't want my son to go through that...

Has she always been like this? Jealous and suspicious? Just tossing out there that perhaps she's going after you like this in order to hide her own discrepancies? I could be totally off base here, as I obviously don't know either of you, but in the vacuum of analysis, it might be something to consider? Because as Knaight said, this level of scrutiny and distrust is completely uncalled for, especially as you've been together for quite a while. Either way, good luck.

[Crow]

Xapi throwing in my voice to the whole "staying together for the kids" is the worst thing you can do for a child
It's a thousand times worse growing up with parents who fight all the time and are bitter than growing up with separated parents

Not legal advice, but try to build up a case and the resources to get custody of your child beforehand if you decide to split. My ex has custody of our kid, and while she is a terrible mom, she isn't quite terrible enough for me to get custody. Something to keep in mind if you do decide to split is that there may be the possibility that she will raise this child for significant portions of his life without any moderating influence. If she is as you say she is, that is something to think about. To say nothing of what other influences will enter your child's life when she starts dating again. 50-50 custody is still plenty of time to mess a kid up.

[Lissou]

I think I'm out of luck.

He never added me to any social network despite having my email/ID. Sean thinks it's normal, that there is no way he would, that he's probably just confused about the whole thing. Okay. So today I talked to him and he said he liked sushi and that there was a sushi place nearby. So I invited him to go there on his meal break. He said he didn't want to spend money. I said I'd treat him. He said he wasn't comfortable with people spending money on him.

Which may be true. But at this point everything I tried has been shut down. I know people have told me that he's probably just completely oblivious and I need to be more obvious about it, but... Honestly, how can I tell the difference between him not realising what I'm asking and him realising and trying to let me down gently because he doesn't want to hurt my feelings? And either way, if he liked me, would he be making so many excuses? Even if he didn't realise I was asking him out? At best, he just doesn't see me in that way so he hasn't though of the possibility. At worst, he knows he has zero interest in me.

I'm thinking I might quit soon. At this point, the only thing I like about my job is him. I guess being paid is nice but I could be doing less work for more money so it's not a huge selling point either.

[Crow]

How about you just be up front about the whole thing and be done stressing over it? It is hard to tell while following this from your posts, but it sounds as if he is not interested in you. If you aren't picking up that vibe but still are not sure, just go for the direct approach. At worst, you know where you stand, and can stop fixating on him.

Best of luck. A crappy situation to be in, but on the positive side is very easy to resolve.

[Ifni]

I've been in the situation where someone was making oblique advances to me and I kept turning them down, but I didn't say explicitly "I am not into you" because that feels really rude/awkward if you say it out of the blue when the other person hasn't explicitly indicated interest. If you guess wrong, and they were really just being friendly, you look both kinda vain ("clearly anyone who is remotely friendly is romantically/sexually interested in me!") and a bit of a jerk. A workplace context adds even more awkwardness.

My reading of the situation is that he's probably trying to say "not interested" politely. It is possible he's just oblivious, and if you want to make sure, you should ask directly. But I don't think continuing the indirect approach with increasing levels of obviousness is a good idea at this point - when I was on the receiving end, I was usually relieved to have the question asked directly, so I could give an unambiguous no. (I am aromantic.) It was far more annoying to have to keep fielding indirect approaches that were never quite sufficiently unambiguous that I could be certain they were romantic approaches.

[Knaight]

I've been in the situation where someone was making oblique advances to me and I kept turning them down, but I didn't say explicitly "I am not into you" because that feels really rude/awkward if you say it out of the blue when the other person hasn't explicitly indicated interest. If you guess wrong, and they were really just being friendly, you look both kinda vain ("clearly anyone who is remotely friendly is romantically/sexually interested in me!") and a bit of a jerk. A workplace context adds even more awkwardness.

My reading of the situation is that he's probably trying to say "not interested" politely. It is possible he's just oblivious, and if you want to make sure, you should ask directly. But I don't think continuing the indirect approach with increasing levels of obviousness is a good idea at this point - when I was on the receiving end, I was usually relieved to have the question asked directly, so I could give an unambiguous no. (I am aromantic.) It was far more annoying to have to keep fielding indirect approaches that were never quite sufficiently unambiguous that I could be certain they were romantic approaches.

This. I'd read the responses as a polite no, and while obliviousness is possible it's not necessarily all that likely. Unambiguity on both sides is the best option here, and it's probably best to initiate it. That's easier said than done obviously - for whatever reason a lot of cultures have generally decided that direct communication is bad in relationships, and that cultural background can be hard to overcome* - but it's worth doing.

*Even if it is stupid.

[TFT]

I did want to say thanks to Jallorn and Coid for the advice, particularly the link to the comic. It was useful, but not as much as the intimacy article in the resources. It's been useful at least for getting myself out of my own head and hopefully being will continue to be.

[rogueboy]

Spoiler: more updates

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Update for anyone curious: She replied to the above-referenced message, I responded and included a suggestion for drinks on one of a couple days I'm not crazy busy (shortly before Thanksgiving), and we now have plans to grab coffee - currently only a day, but with the expectation of sorting out details when we're closer, since it's a week out from now and schedules are crazy. Yay me for getting off my butt (metaphorically, given that I've been sitting pretty much all day), and thanks Crow for pushing me! And the messages are continuing, at least for the moment, so we'll see how it goes.

Update to the update: We met up for drinks this afternoon. We'd been messaging back and forth pretty regularly, and switched to texting a few days ago (I'm bad at conversations via text, so I'd delayed that swap), and been texting quite a bit over the weekend. Got interesting when she was going out with friends last night and was drunk texting me, but she accepted the teasing I gave her about it (and I decided not to bite on the "truth serum" offer she gave while drunk, since we hadn't technically met yet). Long story short, what was supposed to be watching a soccer game (she mentioned wanting to learn rules, I'm a soccer nut, it made sense) turned into joking during the game and for almost 2 hours after. And she seemed nervous to make sure I wanted to continue near the end, which I take as a good sign. Only down side is that she works nights, which means we're kind of stuck with weekends for being able to see each other.

tl;dr: First date went well, we both want to meet up again in the future. Yay for me!

[Lissou]

Thanks all for your advice!

My husband gave me different advice - he said that I'm thinking about it too much, that I just need to hang out with him, and that I shouldn't directly go "do you want to date me?" until I'm quitting, that it's best to let things develop naturally. So I figured I could do both: hang out more now (if he's fine with it) and then if nothing comes out of it be direct before I leave this job.

We ended up spending over 3 hours together today, including his lunch that we spent together (without anyone else) and some time where other coworkers were also around. But for the most part, just the two of us. We talked a lot, had fun, and I definitely wasn't bothering him. He kept coming back to me, talking with me and wanting to hang out more. I was originally planning to spend half an hour or an hour with him, and in the end I left not because I felt unwanted, but because I'm getting up early tomorrow.

So I don't think he dislikes me. I mean it's not like I followed him around while he was trying to get rid for me. He would wait for me, seek me out and so on. And I enjoyed it a lot. I've decided to just have this kind of relationship with him because even if it never goes further, I'm enjoying that. And if it progresses further, than it does and I'm not going to complain, but if it doesn't, I'll still have gained a friend out of it. And it's not like I ever thought "I want to date him or have nothing to do with him" anyways.

[Knaight]

So I don't think he dislikes me. I mean it's not like I followed him around while he was trying to get rid for me. He would wait for me, seek me out and so on. And I enjoyed it a lot. I've decided to just have this kind of relationship with him because even if it never goes further, I'm enjoying that. And if it progresses further, than it does and I'm not going to complain, but if it doesn't, I'll still have gained a friend out of it. And it's not like I ever thought "I want to date him or have nothing to do with him" anyways.

I don't think anyone is getting dislike vibes, just those of not being interested in a romantic relationship. That hardly precludes friendship.

[dehro]

Did you ever get around to mention the fact that despite what he might know about your marital status, that is in fact not an obstacle (generally speaking, not necessarily regarding him)? Because if not, he might just be cultivating a friendship and nothing more.

[Douglas]

Did you ever get around to mention the fact that despite what he might know about your marital status, that is in fact not an obstacle (generally speaking, not necessarily regarding him)? Because if not, he might just be cultivating a friendship and nothing more.

Yeah, this could be a major factor. If he knows you're married, he probably assumes it's a monogamous relationship and that him developing a relationship with you would be "cheating". Polyamory is very much the exception in general, and not something most people would assume. Further, he may refuse to accept an explanation of it from you, because you have a clear motive to lie about it. If it comes up, offer to have your husband explain, preferably in person (and without you present), that it's ok with him.

[dehro]

how to tackle that issue depends mostly if you're after a FWB sort of thing, an actual relationship of some description or just random hookups.. involving the husband at some stage may be a good thing in a "it's really ok" sort of way, but may not be necessarily a good move to make at the very beginning..., especially if you're actually after something more than just the sex, something that needs a little sense of privacy to develop.

[Lissou]

Did you ever get around to mention the fact that despite what he might know about your marital status, that is in fact not an obstacle (generally speaking, not necessarily regarding him)? Because if not, he might just be cultivating a friendship and nothing more.

Not really. I don't want to just blurt it out although I definitely want to talk about it at some point. I do wear a polyamorous wristband but 1) it doesn't say "polyamorous" on it so he'd probably need to ask in order to know what it is and 2) nobody has ever mentioned it to me so I think people don't even notice it. It felt like such a brave thing to do when I first put it on, I was expecting people to try and convince my I was evil like they do online, etc, but nothing at all.

I'll see if at some point I can mention "my boyfriends at the time" or "my husband's girlfriend" or something. I'll just make sure it's not completely out of the blue ("Hey, do you like chocolate?" "Well, my husband's girlfriend ate chocolate once")

It's difficult to mention something that people just don't expect without seeming to be shoving it down people's throats. Even if, say, I was gay and interested in a woman, it would be weird to mention it, despite the fact that people generally have heard of gay people.

But yeah, I wouldn't want him to think I'm cheating. Or anyone else. I've had comments that we spend a lot of time together. Rumors get started this way, I think I'll make sure to mention to at least my closest coworkers. I can use that as practice if nothing else.

And I know nobody said he actively disliked me, but knowing he doesn't is still a good thing. Doesn't mean I expect him to be interested in other ways.

As for the kind of relationship I'm interested in, I'm interested in a romantic relationship. I would take romance and no sex over sex and no romance (but would prefer both). He has met my husband and it wouldn't be impossible to meet him again, but a "meet him and talk about how it's fine" could be incredibly awkward, I'd rather have the three of us hang out and me still being affectionate so that he knows my husband is fine with it from actions and not words. But that would be for later.

[Chen]

The problem here is being direct is very risky now. If he was actually rejecting your advances, it could be construed as sexual harassment if you continued to try in a more direct way. Of course, without you being able to tell him about the polyamarous part of your relationship, he may feel obligated to NOT try to start anything. Your idea of bringing up your husband's girlfriend or whatever is a good one. Something like "my husband is a on a date tonight" or "im just staying home this weekend, my husband is out with his girlfriend" could work, or at least open the door to him inquiring what that's about.

[dehro]

Not really. I don't want to just blurt it out although I definitely want to talk about it at some point. I do wear a polyamorous wristband but 1) it doesn't say "polyamorous" on it so he'd probably need to ask in order to know what it is and 2) nobody has ever mentioned it to me so I think people don't even notice it. It felt like such a brave thing to do when I first put it on, I was expecting people to try and convince my I was evil like they do online, etc, but nothing at all.

Could it be nobody knows what it actually means or recognises it for what it is? It's the first time I heard of such a wristband, despite not being new to the subject.
A bit like certain collars having a meaning/function beyond making one look like an emo.. Except most people don't know this and certainly don't notice more permanent collars.

[Crow]

From what I have seen, people who will pursue you even though you are married are going to do it whether you are polyamorous or not.

If this guy has reservations about you being married, he probably won't be comfortable sharing. If he doesn't, then it won't matter anyways. If what you want is romantic, then just go for it. So just be direct (IMO).

[rogueboy]

I do wear a polyamorous wristband but 1) it doesn't say "polyamorous" on it so he'd probably need to ask in order to know what it is and 2) nobody has ever mentioned it to me so I think people don't even notice it. It felt like such a brave thing to do when I first put it on, I was expecting people to try and convince my I was evil like they do online, etc, but nothing at all.

Echoing Dehro, I've never heard of of a polyamorous wristband either... a quick google search seems to say it's black/red/blue bands, arranged linearly (and repeating) or much like the French/Italian/German flags. And if that's what you're talking about, I know it wouldn't mean anything to me if I hadn't just looked it up. If I had seen that wristband, I either a) wouldn't have noticed it at all or b) would have assumed it was flag/badge for something - which, I suppose, is accurate, though not likely to start a conversation, at least for me.

[Coidzor]

I think I'm out of luck.

He never added me to any social network despite having my email/ID. Sean thinks it's normal, that there is no way he would, that he's probably just confused about the whole thing. Okay. So today I talked to him and he said he liked sushi and that there was a sushi place nearby. So I invited him to go there on his meal break. He said he didn't want to spend money. I said I'd treat him. He said he wasn't comfortable with people spending money on him.

Which may be true. But at this point everything I tried has been shut down. I know people have told me that he's probably just completely oblivious and I need to be more obvious about it, but... Honestly, how can I tell the difference between him not realising what I'm asking and him realising and trying to let me down gently because he doesn't want to hurt my feelings? And either way, if he liked me, would he be making so many excuses? Even if he didn't realise I was asking him out? At best, he just doesn't see me in that way so he hasn't though of the possibility. At worst, he knows he has zero interest in me.

I'm thinking I might quit soon. At this point, the only thing I like about my job is him. I guess being paid is nice but I could be doing less work for more money so it's not a huge selling point either.

Sushi is very much a date sort of activity unless it's a group outing from the workiplace, and is expensive besides. And having someone randomly offer to treat a person to an expensive lunchdate, especially if one knows they are married, is the sort of thing that would throw someone off balance. I'm honestly confused why you'd have thought that was a good idea. There's a reason why something fairly inexpensive and low-stress like going for coffee is suggested, both for the plausible deniablity and being a thing that people who are just friends would actually do as well as for the testing of romantic waters and getting some relative privacy to actually talk to them without the rest of one's peers around to overhear things or eavesdrop.

Why didn't you just try the whole "I think you're cool, would you be interested in hanging out after work or on a day off sometime, maybe with X or Y activity?" approach anyway?

Echoing Dehro, I've never heard of of a polyamorous wristband either... a quick google search seems to say it's black/red/blue bands, arranged linearly (and repeating) or much like the French/Italian/German flags. And if that's what you're talking about, I know it wouldn't mean anything to me if I hadn't just looked it up. If I had seen that wristband, I either a) wouldn't have noticed it at all or b) would have assumed it was flag/badge for something - which, I suppose, is accurate, though not likely to start a conversation, at least for me.

Yeah, that sort of thing is a vanity purchase that's only useful at communicating with other people who would make that kind of vanity purchase, so, y'know, it'd only tell someone who knew about the polyamorous wristbands already that you were poly, so kinda useless in practice unless you were going to some event or place where you expected there to be other polyamorous people who would be subtly broadcasting their polyamorous status in order to either meet new people who are also poly or just have... polyamorous discussions about being polyamorous.

So it's like that whoel "bandana code" thing, only less obvious because it's a colorful wristband being worn by a woman instead of a man conspicuously wearing a bandana when men don't really do that very regularly in most circumstances anymore.

Yeah, this could be a major factor. If he knows you're married, he probably assumes it's a monogamous relationship and that him developing a relationship with you would be "cheating". Polyamory is very much the exception in general, and not something most people would assume. Further, he may refuse to accept an explanation of it from you, because you have a clear motive to lie about it. If it comes up, offer to have your husband explain, preferably in person (and without you present), that it's ok with him.

On the other hand, going straight to meeting the husband could be about as daunting as going straight to meeting the parents. :/

I did want to say thanks to Jallorn and Coid for the advice, particularly the link to the comic. It was useful, but not as much as the intimacy article in the resources. It's been useful at least for getting myself out of my own head and hopefully being will continue to be.

Sometimes that's the most important thing, getting out of our heads every now and then, especially when we're stressing. I thought those resources might come in handy, though I actually missed that one on intimacy when I was reading through myself, so thanks for calling that back up to my attention.

[Lissou]

Yeah, the poly wtist band is something I knitted myself when I was trying to figure out ways to be more out. Mine is the three stripes but also has a golden Pi on top (first letter of "poly" in Greek). I totally realise now that I might as well have not worn it. It's not weird enough for people to ask about it, and is only likely to be spotted by people who already know what it is, which doesn't even include everyone who is polyamorous.

Sushi is very much a date sort of activity unless it's a group outing from the workiplace, and is expensive besides. And having someone randomly offer to treat a person to an expensive lunchdate, especially if one knows they are married, is the sort of thing that would throw someone off balance. I'm honestly confused why you'd have thought that was a good idea.

Well, I'm not the best at social interactions. This thing you say a bit later:

Why didn't you just try the whole "I think you're cool, would you be interested in hanging out after work or on a day off sometime, maybe with X or Y activity?" approach anyway?

That's what I thought I was doing. He just mentioned he liked sushi and that there was a place close by, and I like sushi too, and it seemed like a good "activity we'd both enjoy" kind of thing. Anyways, the sushi place in question is like 5 bucks a person, maybe 10 depending on what you're getting. It's not prohibitively expensive. Still, in hindsight, it wasn't the best idea ever. In the end though, we did end up going to lunch together both yesterday and today, just paying for our own stuff.