Relationship Woes and Advice 25: Now with extra Valentine

[Ktanzei]

Hey Jon, I have been on and off on these forums for quite some time without posting, but I wanted you to know that you've done well. You have done something very brave by taking the first and hardest step to getting out of that relationship.

The only thing now you should do, as others already have suggested, is go incommunicado for a week or so. Turn off your phone. Absolutely under no circumstances should you read or answer anything from her, her mother or anyone who is remotely related to the situation.

Take up an old hobby. Play some music. Get busy - just don't. Answer. Her.

In a typical abusive relationship this is the point where she will try to drag you back in by threatening and pleading. You will probably be tempted to answer if you get any communication from her and, from what I've seen of you, you're decent enough to risk falling back. Don't risk anything. Breaking up and staying that way is the best and only solution to this situation.

[Kato]

I see no real future for myself. I doubt anyone has ever been interested in me. What else is there to say.

Meh, at some point in time someone has been interested in me of all people so I'm sure someone at some point at least was interested in you, or maybe even is right now. (Can't really say based on your post) Simple advice: Don't give up

I just sent this to her less than a minute ago:
[...]

I feel extremely empty at the moment. 6 years...

Woohoo! (at the first part)

Don't worry, distract yourself. Do fun stuff. Pick up a cool show to watch, or a book or whatever. Or bury yourself in work if you prefer that. It'll be better soon, I'm sure.

[Philemonite]

I just sent this to her less than a minute ago:

That is awesome.

I feel extremely empty at the moment. 6 years...

That is not so awesome, but it is normal. Just remember, you don't have to feel OK now, as long as you know you will feel OK at some point. Give yourself some time to get over it. In the meantime, friends and fun activities will help a lot.

[Finlam]

We're all pulling for you John_Dahl. You've taken the first step to being a happier person. Now, just like quitting cigarettes, comes the real trial of sticking with it.

We know you can do it, but it's gonna take some conscious effort on your part. If you feel yourself tempted to talk to her or to read her emails: DON'T! Just post on the Playground or hang out with a friend or do anything else.

I'm really happy for you! Keep us posted.

[Jon_Dahl]

It just all came out. I talked with my dad on the phone. I told him, and I have had this niggling pain, a sharp one, in my chest for the whole. It just bursted inside me, and I cried, my God cried. It just won't budge. I cried as hard as I could, but the thing inside my chest just won't move. I haven't cried so hard since my cat died 11 months ago. It seems that I have lost everything. I had placed all my hopes and dreams in that woman you know. I had planned for us to be together forever. I told her so many times that I'm willing to do anything for us to have peace, but nothing worked. It hurts so much, so ****ing much. My chest is just going into cramps and just fuking hard.

[Taffimai]

Keep strong, Jon! We're all here for you!

Everybody feels a bit empty when a relationship ends, I hope you will soon find things to distract you. Do you have friends you could call for hanging out? Perhaps people you haven't seen in a while that you might want to reconnect with?

[Serpentine]

I just sent this to her less than a minute ago:

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I have told you so many times to stop treating me badly and still you do it.
I'm not talking with you any more. I'm not going to write you any more.
We have been together for 6 years and you treat me like **** most of the time.
You constantly say that I treat you like a bitch. You treat me like a slave. Now this cycle ends.
I'm much happier alone. I will stay alone too.
Stop writing me. Stop contacting me.
I don't want anything from you.

I have destroyed your letters and your picture.

I haven't spoken with anyone about this, so there's no need to blame Menahem (like you always do!). All my friends think that we are happy together.

No excuses.

I feel extremely empty at the moment. 6 years...

Wordier than I'd like, and too many hooks for her to grab onto in response. But it'll do. I recommend never writing to her anything more than "Stop contacting me. We're over.", though, if that: no ambiguity, no hooks. You don't need to explain or defend anything beyond that, and indeed given her history doing any more than that is a very bad idea.
It probably doesn't feel like it now, but eventually you will get better. Just take care of yourself, and don't be afraid to reach out and talk to people.

[Driderman]

I'm just going to assume that Jon_Dahl's ex signs all her correspondances with a flaming, lidless eye and an "I SEE YOU!" because she sound both insane and evil.
Letting go of 6 years and what you once thought was going to be greatest thing in the world is hard but in this case, it's obviously necessary.

[Xondoure]

So over the various mishaps of my romantic journey I've come here, written my piece, and then erased it. I'm not sure what I intend to do this time. Most of what I need is just to write it all out. Knowing there's an audience that's interested is nice, but letting that audience in is harder. Particularly when it's a group of (awesome and supportive) strangers. In the real world I have an incredibly supportive group of friends and family, who would never let me go through these things alone. And for that I am truly grateful. I know what to do. I know how to move on and focus on the rest of my life. But I'm worried about her despite how hurt I am. And that's what makes this difficult.

Because she was where you are Jon, and she just went back. When I met her we were both a month out of relationships. Only mine was for five months with a girl who eventually lost interest, and hers was for three years with a guy who had emotionally and physically abused her since highschool. We were both aware that we were trying to move on. He was trying desperately to contact her. Pleading, threatening, approaching her family for a way in, the whole schebang. She wasn't having any of it.

We spent three months together. During which our daily routines became so interwined as to be practically living together. She started to joke at first, and then talk more seriously about moving in together, maybe even moving away together.

Last wednesday we were planning to take classes together. I didn't see her last thursday. On friday I learned she had gone to talk with him, that she still had feelings for him, and that it wasn't fair to me for her to be in this relationship. I've heard through friends that she was planning to get back together with him friday morning. I don't know if she changed her mind and took space to figure herself out like she told me or if she lied to me.

But it sucks. It sucks even though I see how hard it can be to leave someone who's been such a huge part of your life. Because while I understand, I still feel worthless for being so casually discarded for someone like that. It sucks because I know there was something there, and it's hard to see it smothered. And I'm still reeling over how bizarre it is that someone that strong, intelligent, and self aware could be so dependent on such an unhealthy person.

Thanks for reading. Part of me still feels bad about trolling for sympathy, but that's not a particularly pleasant part of me.

[Philemonite]

*hugs*

I am sorry I can't offer anything more, but I am overworked and half-conscious.

I can say one thing, you are not trolling for sympathy, you are asking for support, and that is why we are here.

[The Prince of Cats]

Xondoure:

I suppose this is for Jon_Dahl a little too, but as the outsider looking in at a bad relationship, I suppose you have some confusion. This is just my observations, based on my own friends and lovers and even my own mistakes.

The first thing you need to understand about abusive partners is that they make people need them. I mean, even a person in an abusive relationship can take the cold, hard facts and see that they should get out. The only reason why anyone stays is because they have become emotionally-dependent. To an outsider, it can be easy to say that someone should leave, but in matters of the heart, logic is not the primary motivator.

Abusive partners have learned, often since childhood, how to manipulate people. They know how to use guilt and fear to get what they want. They probably started out manipulating their parents and just trying to get one more cookie before lunch, but why stop at cookies?

The phrases I have heard, the ones I fear most, are 'he needs me' and 'you are too good for me' because they represent the basic issues.

The first is simple emotional manipulation; they have been taught that they are the one thing that saved this person from self-destruction (often suicide) and suffering. Two thirds of the cases I have seen also involved cheating, but the abuser would claim that they came back because they could only get what they needed from their victim, twisting a betrayal into an expression of 'love' so that the abused partner could not even complain without feeling like a monster.

A partner in a healthy relationship can say that someone makes them happy or gives them a fuzzy feeling, but an abuser can go much more grandiose and will point to their victim saving their life or being so forgiving of the abuser's 'minor' flaws (like beating them, raping them, stealing their money, driving away their friends) because the victim is such a good person and not like those awful judgemental people who are trying to split them up.

The second issue is equally frustrating, as it represents the complete opposite mentality and yet seems to co-exist with it easily in their minds. At the same as they have been built up as this angel, they have been broken down and cast as a demon too.

After being in an abusive relationship, it can be easy to wonder why your new partner is not saying the things you are used to hearing. Why are they being so nice? Do they not care that you are a monster? Can they not see that you overcooked their egg by ten seconds? Why are they not angry?

And this person has probably been told how awful it was that they were with someone who made them unhappy, so why are they doing these things to make you unhappy? They should leave because there are so many people better for you, people who won't hurt you, who won't make you unhappy like they must be doing.

Maybe you don't really love them; I mean, if you cared, you'd help them to be a better partner by telling them all the things they need to fix about themselves...

To give that some context on that latter issue; I never went back to an ex. I was strong, I was firm with myself and I stayed out once I was out. Okay, maybe I talked to them when I shouldn't have, but I never went back no matter what they said. Despite this, I spent maybe the first six months of the relationship with the woman I would one day marry thinking I would leave her. Maybe I would leave a note explaining how I was wrong for her and could never make her as happy as she made me. Maybe I would just pack my things into my car and disappear.

I was damaged goods, ruined and broken. I never understood why we got together in the first place when I had so little to offer, so she must just have felt sorry for me. It was not easy, but I was lucky enough that I trusted her enough to ignore the fears and in return, she promised never to lie to me if she was not happy...

[Eloel]

Hello again, dear playgrounders.
I haven't been here for like 15 editions of the thread now, and it has thus been a long while, but here I am, again turning to you for help.

I have a girlfriend, and I love her dearly. We have been together for just over a year, and we have practically been living at her place and mine interchangeably for the last 5-6 months. I know it's not been long, and that more time should be given before any life-changing decisions are made, but life does not permit that.
Come October, I will be moving halfway across the planet (10 hrs time-zone difference), because I have found my dream job. While the specifics are unimportant, I have applied for internship for a couple months, and landed a full time job. My intention is to never return, or at least acquire my PhD nearby where I'm working before returning, which would take a good 5 years.

Now one of the tricks here is that she still has a year more of study - which has its own problems and burden on us, but there always is more. She likes it here. Her family, all her friends, she hates the mere idea of leaving this place for an extended period of time. Yet she claims she has no choice but to apply to whatever she can, to come along with me. Unhappy, almost depressive, but cooperative, she's trying to come along, for her attempt at a graduate degree.

I offered to stay, and I meant it when I made the offer. I was threatened to never be talked to again if I refused the job, yet this now leaves her in a wreckage.

What do we do?

[Driderman]

Hello again, dear playgrounders.
I haven't been here for like 15 editions of the thread now, and it has thus been a long while, but here I am, again turning to you for help.

I have a girlfriend, and I love her dearly. We have been together for just over a year, and we have practically been living at her place and mine interchangeably for the last 5-6 months. I know it's not been long, and that more time should be given before any life-changing decisions are made, but life does not permit that.
Come October, I will be moving halfway across the planet (10 hrs time-zone difference), because I have found my dream job. While the specifics are unimportant, I have applied for internship for a couple months, and landed a full time job. My intention is to never return, or at least acquire my PhD nearby where I'm working before returning, which would take a good 5 years.

Now one of the tricks here is that she still has a year more of study - which has its own problems and burden on us, but there always is more. She likes it here. Her family, all her friends, she hates the mere idea of leaving this place for an extended period of time. Yet she claims she has no choice but to apply to whatever she can, to come along with me. Unhappy, almost depressive, but cooperative, she's trying to come along, for her attempt at a graduate degree.

I offered to stay, and I meant it when I made the offer. I was threatened to never be talked to again if I refused the job, yet this now leaves her in a wreckage.

What do we do?

She's already made her choice, it's not your responsibility after that. People rarely want to leave their comfort zones but that doesn't meant it won't possibly be the best thing she ever did. Just be sure to make an extra effort that she is getting settled and having fun, getting a new social circle of her own when you move and you've done all that can reasonably be asked of you.
In any case, sounds like the woman realizes this might not be such a bad thing even if the decision is tough.

[Taffimai]

Hello again, dear playgrounders.
I haven't been here for like 15 editions of the thread now, and it has thus been a long while, but here I am, again turning to you for help.

I have a girlfriend, and I love her dearly. We have been together for just over a year, and we have practically been living at her place and mine interchangeably for the last 5-6 months. I know it's not been long, and that more time should be given before any life-changing decisions are made, but life does not permit that.
Come October, I will be moving halfway across the planet (10 hrs time-zone difference), because I have found my dream job. While the specifics are unimportant, I have applied for internship for a couple months, and landed a full time job. My intention is to never return, or at least acquire my PhD nearby where I'm working before returning, which would take a good 5 years.

Now one of the tricks here is that she still has a year more of study - which has its own problems and burden on us, but there always is more. She likes it here. Her family, all her friends, she hates the mere idea of leaving this place for an extended period of time. Yet she claims she has no choice but to apply to whatever she can, to come along with me. Unhappy, almost depressive, but cooperative, she's trying to come along, for her attempt at a graduate degree.

I offered to stay, and I meant it when I made the offer. I was threatened to never be talked to again if I refused the job, yet this now leaves her in a wreckage.

What do we do?

Imagine if your girlfriend were posting here. I can't imagine anyone advising her to quit her studies and move to where she doesn't know anyone just to be with a boyfriend, especially not when just the prospect of moving is already making her miserable. What does she mean when she says she "has no choice"? Somehow, this raises all kinds of red flags to me about clinginess, codependency and insecurity, but I hope I'm just misinterpreting.

The important thing here is to avoid bitterness. If you grow apart and break up in six months, make sure neither of you can say "I gave up XX for you!" Go to your dream job. Refuse to let her leave her family, friends and studies until after she graduates, then (if your relationship proved robust enough to withstand the one year separation) have her come stay with you for a month or so to see how she likes it and if so, find a job there.

[Eloel]

Imagine if your girlfriend were posting here. I can't imagine anyone advising her to quit her studies and move to where she doesn't know anyone just to be with a boyfriend, especially not when just the prospect of moving is already making her miserable. What does she mean when she says she "has no choice"? Somehow, this raises all kinds of red flags to me about clinginess, codependency and insecurity, but I hope I'm just misinterpreting.

The important thing here is to avoid bitterness. If you grow apart and break up in six months, make sure neither of you can say "I gave up XX for you!" Go to your dream job. Refuse to let her leave her family, friends and studies until after she graduates, then (if your relationship proved robust enough to withstand the one year separation) have her come stay with you for a month or so to see how she likes it and if so, find a job there.

Actually, she'll already not move until she's done with her undergrad degree, and (for now) only intends to be there for his grad degree. Thus, her commitment basically consists of "I'll go for a master's degree anyway, might take it where you are", thus the degree of commitment will be 2 years of studying at a pre-chosen place instead of a place she might find more suitable under normal conditions. That's still a sacrifice, yet it's not as bad as you make it sound
By the end of her masters degree, which will be 3.5 more years from now, I hope we figure out what to do (a 4-5 year relationship, if still successful, hopefully won't end because of inability to decide on a place to live).

[Aedilred]

By the end of her masters degree, which will be 3.5 more years from now, I hope we figure out what to do (a 4-5 year relationship, if still successful, hopefully won't end because of inability to decide on a place to live).

Hopefully not, but that is the sort of thing that can put a lot of pressure on a relationship. In fact, most of the >4-year relationships I've witnessed break up did so for some variation of this reason. Communication is key, as is not promising anything you don't think you can/actually want to deliver. So just... bear in mind what you're getting into.

[AtlanteanTroll]

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So, this is really a non-issue, I think, but I I had a dream I had relations with a good friend's girlfriend last night and it's been bugging me since...

[Glass Mouse]

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So, this is really a non-issue, I think, but I I had a dream I had relations with a good friend's girlfriend last night and it's been bugging me since...

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If the dream stands alone, don't worry about it. Seriously. I've had sex/romance dreams that were just... ergh, in their choice of subject. And as far as I can tell, that's really common. It's not repression or a hidden message - it just means that human brains are weird.
Just, y'know, don't feel obligated to tell anyone about it. Most people would prefer not to know.

If, however, the dream made you realize something that applies while awake, yeah... I can see how that would bug you.

[Coidzor]

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So, this is really a non-issue, I think, but I I had a dream I had relations with a good friend's girlfriend last night and it's been bugging me since...

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Why? They're fairly common, and even if it involved some sort of fetish that you're not actually interested in while existing in meat space, that's not really evidence that you've been repressing that fetish, per se.

[AtlanteanTroll]

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If the dream stands alone, don't worry about it. Seriously. I've had sex/romance dreams that were just... ergh, in their choice of subject. And as far as I can tell, that's really common. It's not repression or a hidden message - it just means that human brains are weird.
Just, y'know, don't feel obligated to tell anyone about it. Most people would prefer not to know.

If, however, the dream made you realize something that applies while awake, yeah... I can see how that would bug you.

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Why? They're fairly common, and even if it involved some sort of fetish that you're not actually interested in while existing in meat space, that's not really evidence that you've been repressing that fetish, per se.

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It's really only bothering me because it was a very realistic, enjoyable dream and I actually remembered it. I very rarely remember dreams. My friend's girlfriend is a friend of mine, and she's attractive, but I have no real world attraction to her ... I guess just having the dream is my number one issue.

[Eloel]

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It's really only bothering me because it was a very realistic, enjoyable dream and I actually remembered it. I very rarely remember dreams. My friend's girlfriend is a friend of mine, and she's attractive, but I have no real world attraction to her ... I guess just having the dream is my number one issue.

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I suggest just enjoying the dreams, unless they become repetitive. It doesn't mean bad things about you to dream about a girl you deem attractive, even without actual attraction.

[AKA_Bait]

What do we do?

It sounds to me like you should (1) respect her choice to finish her degree here and then come join you, (2) thank your lucky stars that you have found someone who loves you enough to make that kind of move with you.

[Castaras]

Jon: Huge congratulations. Echoing what everyone else said - pick up a new hobby/throw yourself into a hobby and keep yourself occupied.

It'll be hardest at night, but you can get through this.

[hawkboy772042]

...So I had a booty call for a very short period of time and decided to drop her because she quickly started acting a little too needy, not to mention her being significantly older than me (13 years). Little did I know, I'd run into her at a party and she would start bothering me about I wouldn't return her texts/calls. (This is the standard method for dropping, last I checked).

How I do smooth things over because I really want to be tiptoeing around every social event I potentially go to nor do I want to make a scene and humiliate her either.

[FinnLassie]

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It's really only bothering me because it was a very realistic, enjoyable dream and I actually remembered it. I very rarely remember dreams. My friend's girlfriend is a friend of mine, and she's attractive, but I have no real world attraction to her ... I guess just having the dream is my number one issue.

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You probably remember the dream because it bothers you - many dreams that have been troublesome to me have stayed in my awake self the longest. Just forget about the dream, with a very high chance it means nothing, it's just your brain going on about weird shennanigans like others have mentioned.

[Jon_Dahl]

Jon: Huge congratulations. Echoing what everyone else said - pick up a new hobby/throw yourself into a hobby and keep yourself occupied.

It'll be hardest at night, but you can get through this.

Luckily, I have plenty of things going on here. I already had them while we dated. I was having a fairly passive life when we met, but started to do lots of things in order to avoid her. I have a day job, night school studies and housekeeping at my father's house in the countryside. Breaking up with her was fairly natural continuum with all that. However, there was always someone waiting for me to come home; someone that was always thinking about me. Now I don't have that any more. No one cares what I do.

I've been thinking about finding a new girlfriend, but I have decided to wait. One of the reasons is that there'll be the World Cup next summer, and I've noticed that it's excruciating time to people around me because I just work and watch games all day and night for one month. I only get like that every four years, mind you. It might be best that I don't look for a meaningful relationship until the games are over.

After that, I may look for another long-distance relationship with a Brazilian woman, using various dating sites. Is it too much to ask for a sane and loving woman from a country of 200 million?

[Serpentine]

Why are you so keen specifically on a Brazilian woman? I suggest taking it easy for a while, and focussing on meeting people in your immediate vicinity.

...So I had a booty call for a very short period of time and decided to drop her because she quickly started acting a little too needy, not to mention her being significantly older than me (13 years). Little did I know, I'd run into her at a party and she would start bothering me about I wouldn't return her texts/calls. (This is the standard method for dropping, last I checked).

How I do smooth things over because I really want to be tiptoeing around every social event I potentially go to nor do I want to make a scene and humiliate her either.

Less "standard", more "rude and unclear".
I suggest apologising for your bad manners, and explain to her that you felt your arrangement has run its course (no "I'm sorry, but", no excuses. Just "I'm sorry. I should have talked to you. I was wrong. Here is the situation.").

[Jon_Dahl]

Why are you so keen specifically on a Brazilian woman? I suggest taking it easy for a while, and focussing on meeting people in your immediate vicinity.

Well, I had my mind set on moving there for years, and I wouldn't want to give up on that dream. Nothing more.
I've been seeing some of friends lately. It's just that I've been mostly comforted by my Brazilian friends. I feel that most of the people I have around me are Internet & Whatsapp friends from Brazil. Welcome to my life
I'm definitely going to take it easy, you are right. That's the best solution right now.

[Glass Mouse]

Less "standard", more "rude and unclear".
I suggest apologising for your bad manners, and explain to her that you felt your arrangement has run its course (no "I'm sorry, but", no excuses. Just "I'm sorry. I should have talked to you. I was wrong. Here is the situation.").

+1.

I swear, sometimes it feels like this thread consists of 50% "this person has been sending really unclear signals, what do I do?" and 50% "I've been sending this person really unclear signals, and they don't get it, what do I do?"

Don't contribute to that anti-communication pest, people. Hints. Do. Not. Work.

Well, I had my mind set on moving there for years, and I wouldn't want to give up on that dream. Nothing more.
I've been seeing some of friends lately. It's just that I've been mostly comforted by my Brazilian friends. I feel that most of the people I have around me are Internet & Whatsapp friends from Brazil. Welcome to my life
I'm definitely going to take it easy, you are right. That's the best solution right now.

Sounds like you're doing okay. I'm really glad to hear that. I think you should take it easy, too, but maybe allow yourself to dip a toe in the dating pool soon-ish, just to remind yourself that there are other prospects.

Take case, keep busy, and don't be afraid to lean on those friends of yours. Good luck!

[Kato]

@Atlantean:

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As other people said: Dreams don't mean anything. Stop worrying. If you really, really can't let go of it, tell him and/or her but I absolutely don't see the need myself.

Less "standard", more "rude and unclear".
I suggest apologising for your bad manners, and explain to her that you felt your arrangement has run its course (no "I'm sorry, but", no excuses. Just "I'm sorry. I should have talked to you. I was wrong. Here is the situation.").

Have to agree.. I guess if you think it's okay to end a booty call relationship, or any relationship, by just not responding that's fine for you, but at the least dropping a line like "sorry, this doesn't work for me anymore" or "I'm not interested in this" or whatever seems much better manners to me.


Speaking of bad manners, I'm still bothered by my ex/friend and my plan of action likely isn't well mannered either
Without going into details, last week I had a revelation that I still do care much more than I admit(ted) to myself (possibly aided by some alcohol) and I guess I came to realize it's more of a problem to possibly both of us than I thought before.
Since last time I suggested we don't see each other for a while she turned it down saying it didn't work the last time I tried (which is true) I think I'll just not show up under some excuse when it is likely she'll be there. (If I told her she'd likely either insist I don't do that or at least suggest I shouldn't cripple my social life and offer we should take turns not going. But I neither feel like forcing her to avoid going anywhere, nor even discussing or arguing about it)
But in all honesty, I don't think it'll remedy the problem soon but it's better than doing nothing about it.