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  1. - Top - End - #211
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 25: Now with extra Valentine

    Quote Originally Posted by Themrys View Post
    That's not why I want a date, it's why, if I don't get one, I'd go on to marry a Mr Collins. Or, well, probably not, since I can solve the "no money, no prospects" problem without a man, and the prospect of being single at 30 doesn't frighten me enough to make me marry a Mr Collins.

    I might marry a Colonel Brandon, though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Themrys View Post
    No, of course not.

    I am only concerned it might be gender-neutral impolite to ask him out under the circumstances. If his rejection would end with the words " ... had you behaved in a more gentlewomanlike manner", I would be very hurt and embarassed.

    Should he, however, tell me, that asking a man out is not "ladylike" regardless of circumstances, it would spare me any pain which I might have felt in being rejected.
    Well, even if that is the reason he doesn't say yes, I'd be astonished if he actually said that. Although it would be useful if jerks were more forthright in their jerkiness at times; it would make them easier to avoid.

    I don't think asking someone out is ever impolite per se, unless they're already in a relationship or have made it clear they're not interested. There might be additional circumstances in which it's inappropriate but hopefully you'd be aware if any of those applied. The only real risk other than to your own feelings is if you already have some sort of relationship with him (work, platonic friendship &c.) and asking him out would cause embarrassment there.
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  2. - Top - End - #212
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 25: Now with extra Valentine

    In my experience, answers to being asked out are brief more often than not. Either an emotional yes, an emotional stipulation with a yes, or an excuse/"not about you"-lecture to avoid hurting the other party's feelings, "I need time", or very rarely a direct refusal.
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  3. - Top - End - #213
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 25: Now with extra Valentine

    Quote Originally Posted by razovor View Post
    Polyamory stuff is a problem my brain can handle. I do not know what to do about anxiety.

    Explaining how I feel and what I want seems like a generally good idea, but I need to find some way to do it. If I push myself too much, it's possible I could have a panic attack.
    ah, ok... that I unfortunately don't know much about. I've never really been anxious about social situations. A friend of mine was, but I did the typical guy thing and just took him to a bar and got him sloshed enough that his brain didn't function as fast as his mouth did. So he was able to interact with women with out his brain getting in the way so he could get used to it and that seemed to help him. Probably not the healthiest way to get over anxiety though (and not even allowed if you haven't reached drinking age)

    I guess my amateur advice here would be to figure out what exactly is causing you to become anxious about the situation, and from there take baby steps to see how far you can get toward saying what you really want to, with out feeling stressed, and then try to slowly push the boundary. But figuring out whats actually causing the stress can help a lot, if its talking in general to her, or the actual question, or fear of rejection, or even fear of acceptance, etc... each can be approached differently to build confidence so it will bother you less and less.
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 25: Now with extra Valentine

    Quote Originally Posted by Themrys View Post
    That's not why I want a date, it's why, if I don't get one, I'd go on to marry a Mr Collins. Or, well, probably not, since I can solve the "no money, no prospects" problem without a man, and the prospect of being single at 30 doesn't frighten me enough to make me marry a Mr Collins.

    I might marry a Colonel Brandon, though.

    (For those who don't know - the "no money, no prospects, a burden to my parents" thing is a quote from Pride and Prejudice. Mr Collins and Colonel Brandon are characters from Jane Austen novels.)
    I'm sorry, but you're probably already poisoning the pot if you're taking Jane Austen novels at all seriously. :/
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coidzor View Post
    I'm sorry, but you're probably already poisoning the pot if you're taking Jane Austen novels at all seriously. :/
    I don't understand what you mean.

    If you think men don't like women who love Jane Austen novels, well, a man who doesn't like Jane Austen is a man who is not worth my time.

  6. - Top - End - #216
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 25: Now with extra Valentine

    Quote Originally Posted by Themrys View Post
    a man who doesn't like Jane Austen is a man who is not worth my time.
    I'd suggest you use this line on your date with this guy, might spare you both a lot of troubles.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalmageddon View Post
    I'd suggest you use this line on your date with this guy, might spare you both a lot of troubles.
    Nah, that'd be stupid. There's some risk he'd try and pretend to have read all Jane Austen novels and be a big fan, and make a fool of himself since he actually hasn't read any.

    Which might be entertaining to watch if I didn't like him, but I do like him, so ... no.

    (And don't tell me that adults don't do this. I've absolutely met men in their twenties who did pretend to like everything I liked on a date.)

    I'll find out what he really thinks of Jane Austen and my other favourite authors soon enough.

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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 25: Now with extra Valentine

    Quote Originally Posted by Themrys View Post
    I don't understand what you mean.

    If you think men don't like women who love Jane Austen novels, well, a man who doesn't like Jane Austen is a man who is not worth my time.
    No, I think that thinking that Jane Austen novels are a good blueprint for life is a bad idea.

    After all, we live in an age where you can actually attempt to *talk* to people and if they're worth anything it'll work more often than not too.
    Last edited by Coidzor; 2014-04-21 at 03:49 PM.
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 25: Now with extra Valentine

    Quote Originally Posted by Coidzor View Post
    No, I think that thinking that Jane Austen novels are a good blueprint for life is a bad idea.

    After all, we live in an age where you can actually attempt to *talk* to people and if they're worth anything it'll work more often than not too.
    You can still learn from Jane Austen novels that you need to know the unspoken social rules that apply to your situation. They have changed, but it is still a good thing to know them.

    The young man, by the way, seemed delighted to be asked out by a woman, so if he rejects me in the future I will not have the consolation that he was an ******* anyway. Too bad.

  10. - Top - End - #220
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 25: Now with extra Valentine

    Quote Originally Posted by Themrys View Post
    You can still learn from Jane Austen novels that you need to know the unspoken social rules that apply to your situation. They have changed, but it is still a good thing to know them.
    That information does not, however, come solely from said sources; there are other places from where you can learn all about the social etiquette and how to apply it in various situations. I guess my point is that someone not having read Austen shouldn't automatically make them a worse person, though of course, I'm not sure that's a position you've presented in the first place so this is a somewhat hyperbolic comment. Wow I can write a lot over nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Themrys View Post
    The young man, by the way, seemed delighted to be asked out by a woman, so if he rejects me in the future I will not have the consolation that he was an ******* anyway. Too bad.
    I'm not frankly surprised. Best of luck and glad it worked out. By the sound of it you two should also share a mutual interest in each other and you sound fairly compatible so your prospects, based on what you've written in this thread, actually sound quite good.

    A small tip: Don't be too harsh on him; we men can be quite stupid and blind at times especially when it comes to women. It might be worth your while to give him a chance if he first does something stupid; chances are if such things happen it's more out of ignorance than malice (much depends on how much experience he has in relationships too, of course)
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  11. - Top - End - #221
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 25: Now with extra Valentine

    Quote Originally Posted by Themrys View Post
    (And don't tell me that adults don't do this. I've absolutely met men in their twenties who did pretend to like everything I liked on a date.)
    I don't think it's just a date thing; I think this happens in any social situation where you're trying to break the ice and appear likeable and polite, at almost any age. I've become more comfortable about not doing it, but I probably still do it more than I think.

    Even if you're not deliberately trying to suck up, I can see how it happens. Someone expresses an opinion. You're trying to appear interesting and keep the conversation going, so apathy is bad. Ignorance is ok, but if you play that card too often you'll appear just as dull if not duller than the person who knows all about everything but has no opinion, and you can only really get away with it if you genuinely are ignorant of whatever it is they're talking about. So you're left with either disagreeing and saying you don't like it, or claiming that you do. And agreement is always easier than disagreement, so you end up saying you like it almost irrespective of your own feelings on the matter.
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  12. - Top - End - #222
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 25: Now with extra Valentine

    Quote Originally Posted by Aedilred View Post
    I don't think it's just a date thing; I think this happens in any social situation where you're trying to break the ice and appear likeable and polite, at almost any age. I've become more comfortable about not doing it, but I probably still do it more than I think.

    Even if you're not deliberately trying to suck up, I can see how it happens. Someone expresses an opinion. You're trying to appear interesting and keep the conversation going, so apathy is bad. Ignorance is ok, but if you play that card too often you'll appear just as dull if not duller than the person who knows all about everything but has no opinion, and you can only really get away with it if you genuinely are ignorant of whatever it is they're talking about. So you're left with either disagreeing and saying you don't like it, or claiming that you do. And agreement is always easier than disagreement, so you end up saying you like it almost irrespective of your own feelings on the matter.
    I do that too, to an extent, but it comes off somewhat suspicious if a man expresses distaste for naked statues of Aphrodite despite not being very religious, and without being asked tells you that he despises casual sex but loves cute little kittens, roses and teddy bears. I mean, of course a man can really be like that, but it does seem a bit more likely that he tries to appeal to his idea of the standard woman.

    I don't tell people that I hate their hobbies, but I also don't pretend to like football/soccer in order to seem more interesting to a man.

    @Eldariel: Not reading Jane Austen novels because you don't know them is okay. Considering them boring is excusable. Disliking a woman because she likes Jane Austen, on the other hand ...

  13. - Top - End - #223
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 25: Now with extra Valentine

    Quote Originally Posted by Themrys View Post
    @Eldariel: Not reading Jane Austen novels because you don't know them is okay. Considering them boring is excusable. Disliking a woman because she likes Jane Austen, on the other hand ...
    I certainly agree, but the discussion had already drifted quite far from this point, as often tends to happen; must be something about the forum
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  14. - Top - End - #224
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 25: Now with extra Valentine

    Quote Originally Posted by Themrys View Post
    I do that too, to an extent, but it comes off somewhat suspicious if a man expresses distaste for naked statues of Aphrodite despite not being very religious, and without being asked tells you that he despises casual sex but loves cute little kittens, roses and teddy bears. I mean, of course a man can really be like that, but it does seem a bit more likely that he tries to appeal to his idea of the standard woman.

    @Eldariel: Not reading Jane Austen novels because you don't know them is okay. Considering them boring is excusable. Disliking a woman because she likes Jane Austen, on the other hand ...
    I'm just left wondering how conversation got to the subject of a hatred for, specifically, naked statues of Aphrodite and how one could have brought up hating casual sex without asking the other party to either agree or disagree. Though if that all came up without being somehow topical to the conversation as it had unfolded beforehand, that's something above and beyond simple base pandering and just plain bizarre.

    There's liking Jane Austen and then there's seriously categorizing people based upon characters in her novels and treating them as a model for life.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coidzor View Post
    I'm just left wondering how conversation got to the subject of a hatred for, specifically, naked statues of Aphrodite and how one could have brought up hating casual sex without asking the other party to either agree or disagree. Though if that all came up without being somehow topical to the conversation as it had unfolded beforehand, that's something above and beyond simple base pandering and just plain bizarre.
    The statue was one we saw while walking in a park. What lead to the topic of casual sex, I am not sure, but he didn't mention it out of the blue. That would have been really weird.

    He did send me kitten pictures. Hm. That may well be something he genuinely liked. Too cutesy for my taste, though.


    I have to categorize people somehow, and it's not as if the D&D alignment system is so much better than Jane Austen.
    Last edited by Themrys; 2014-04-22 at 01:33 AM.

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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 25: Now with extra Valentine

    Quote Originally Posted by Themrys View Post
    The statue was one we saw while walking in a park. What lead to the topic of casual sex, I am not sure, but he didn't mention it out of the blue. That would have been really weird.

    He did send me kitten pictures. Hm. That may well be something he genuinely liked. Too cutesy for my taste, though.


    I have to categorize people somehow, and it's not as if the D&D alignment system is so much better than Jane Austen.
    Why do you have to categorize people? Why can't they just be people you either like or don't?
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 25: Now with extra Valentine

    Quote Originally Posted by Jallorn View Post
    Why do you have to categorize people? Why can't they just be people you either like or don't?
    That's categorizing, too.

    And instead of doing the whole work with explaining why exactly I like or don't like someone, I can just as well use a character from literature so that everyone knows what I mean.

    I get the impression some people here just feel excluded because they never read Jane Austen. Would you be equally opposed to categorizing people if I had written that the I won't date a chaotic good man because I'm lawful good, or whatever?

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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 25: Now with extra Valentine

    Honestly, I feel no problem with relating people to books.
    Have at it!
    Just remember to not call them by that characters name...
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 25: Now with extra Valentine

    Quote Originally Posted by Themrys View Post
    Would you be equally opposed to categorizing people if I had written that the I won't date a chaotic good man because I'm lawful good, or whatever?
    Depends. It's a silly thing to say, but it's much more obvious as far as jokes go, because there are people who take Jane Austen as gospel and sabotage their relationships and the relationships of those in their life if they don't follow the trajectory of the Mr. Darcy relationship. There aren't really any noticeable groups of people who take D&D alignments seriously, so the odds that it was tongue-in-the-cheek shoot right up.

    Hence the "seriously" qualifier at the beginning of this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Themrys View Post
    That's categorizing, too.
    Yes, I had caught that little bit of hypocracy on my part.

    I don't strictly oppose categorization, so much as labeling. Also the requirement that a person appreciate a certain work seems very narrow to me. Also, you are opposed to someone who hasn't read it at all, when that's a great chance to introduce them to something that makes you happy, and they can share in your joy with their first introduction to it.
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 25: Now with extra Valentine

    Quote Originally Posted by Themrys View Post
    I do that too, to an extent, but it comes off somewhat suspicious if a man expresses distaste for naked statues of Aphrodite despite not being very religious, and without being asked tells you that he despises casual sex but loves cute little kittens, roses and teddy bears. I mean, of course a man can really be like that, but it does seem a bit more likely that he tries to appeal to his idea of the standard woman.
    Men can indeed really be like that. Although teddy bears is probably taking it a bit far.
    Also the requirement that a person appreciate a certain work seems very narrow to me.
    I'm not sure that's actually what's being discussed; I don't think Themrys is requiring that potential partners have read and appreciate Austen, only that the conversation turned in that direction.

    But then, I think if people express no appreciation or interest for certain things, it can be a legitimate deal-breaker. Maybe not a specific author (or film/TV show/whatever) unless it's really important to you, but more generally, sure. I've been told by someone - someone hoping for a date with me no less - that they haven't seen The Godfather (any), Goodfellas, The Sopranos or The Wire, and, moreover, had no intention of ever doing so because they didn't think mafia/drug gangs were interesting. (They also said the same thing about Jaws, albeit without the mafia part, but that's besides the point). My protestations that that's not really the point fell on deaf ears. I think that'd be difficult to get past. A friend of mine has an anecdote he tells at any opportunity about an ex-girlfriend of his who'd read all of Fifty Shades but had never finished The Lord of the Rings - and tends to follow that up with "and that's why she's an ex-girlfriend!"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aedilred View Post
    Men can indeed really be like that. Although teddy bears is probably taking it a bit far.

    I'm not sure that's actually what's being discussed; I don't think Themrys is requiring that potential partners have read and appreciate Austen, only that the conversation turned in that direction.

    But then, I think if people express no appreciation or interest for certain things, it can be a legitimate deal-breaker. Maybe not a specific author (or film/TV show/whatever) unless it's really important to you, but more generally, sure. I've been told by someone - someone hoping for a date with me no less - that they haven't seen The Godfather (any), Goodfellas, The Sopranos or The Wire, and, moreover, had no intention of ever doing so because they didn't think mafia/drug gangs were interesting. (They also said the same thing about Jaws, albeit without the mafia part, but that's besides the point). My protestations that that's not really the point fell on deaf ears. I think that'd be difficult to get past. A friend of mine has an anecdote he tells at any opportunity about an ex-girlfriend of his who'd read all of Fifty Shades but had never finished The Lord of the Rings - and tends to follow that up with "and that's why she's an ex-girlfriend!"
    Fair enough. I'm willing to admit that I was looking at things much more black and white than they are.
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 25: Now with extra Valentine

    Quote Originally Posted by Aedilred View Post
    Men can indeed really be like that. Although teddy bears is probably taking it a bit far.
    Yeah, that's post-third date/getting ready to take a girl home kinda talk, after all.
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 25: Now with extra Valentine

    Quote Originally Posted by Coidzor View Post
    Yeah, that's post-third date/getting ready to take a girl home kinda talk, after all.
    You mean warning her before she finds out about the collection that lives on the guest bed and assumes you are a pedophile?

    Quote Originally Posted by razovor View Post
    Polyamory stuff is a problem my brain can handle. I do not know what to do about anxiety.

    Explaining how I feel and what I want seems like a generally good idea, but I need to find some way to do it. If I push myself too much, it's possible I could have a panic attack.
    Write it out. Either as a way to say all of the stuff you want to without it glomming up in your brain (queuing a panic attack) or just as an exercise to prep you for actually saying it so you have an order, a few keywords, etc to focus on when the anxiety threatens to drown out more rational (though likely highly emotional) thought patterns.
    Last edited by sktarq; 2014-04-22 at 05:24 PM.

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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 25: Now with extra Valentine

    Quote Originally Posted by sktarq View Post
    You mean warning her before she finds out about the collection that lives on the guest bed and assumes you are a pedophile?

    Write it out. Either as a way to say all of the stuff you want to without it glomming up in your brain (queuing a panic attack) or just as an exercise to prep you for actually saying it so you have an order, a few keywords, etc to focus on when the anxiety threatens to drown out more rational (though likely highly emotional) thought patterns.
    Stuff like that, yeah. *finishes stuffing stuffed animal kept since childhood in the darkest corner of closet, walks off whistling innocently*

    Indeed! Just remember not to try to memorize what you write verbatim unless you've got some chops as an actor for delivering lines. And even then it's probably best to just use it as a tool to get everything down pat in yer heart and head and let the words come out in the moment as necessary.
    Last edited by Coidzor; 2014-04-22 at 07:15 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
    +3 Girlfriend is totally unoptimized. You are better off with a +1 Keen Witty girlfriend and then appling Greater Magic Make-up to increase her enhancement bonus.
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 25: Now with extra Valentine

    Does anyone here have experience with ADHD and how it can interfere with a love/sex life and would mind discussing it via PM? Mainly because I want to ask some questions of someone with firsthand experience because it's really bothering me, I think.
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 25: Now with extra Valentine

    Quote Originally Posted by Themrys View Post
    I know that men are no monolith, but since men rarely complain about women hitting on them, I guess there is a slight difference.

    Do you know how the "players" react to being hit on by a (not so attractive) woman? Do they complain?

    The female ego is, in my case at least, a fragile thing, too.
    A bit late on the response, but I'd say that if you think that you don't have the looks, taking the initiative might be a good thing. People are superficial and first impressions are often based on appearances, but showing the guts to ask a man out despite your "social handicap" might even out the playing field, so to speak, as you display other qualities that are not readily apparent and may (or may not) be something that said man finds attractive. It's my firm impression that less-attractive women (and remember, beauty is very much in the eye of the beholder) can often be the more interesting partners because they don't have the default value of appearance to make them "interesting" as a partner. Less-than-attractive women actually have to be interesting in other ways, while a pretty girl oftens gets away with not being particularly interesting, so less as she looks good.

    If nothing else, it would be stupid to lose sleep over what might have been, when you can just act and find out

  28. - Top - End - #238
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 25: Now with extra Valentine

    I'm just trying to analyze here why is it so hard for me to find date.

    One thing that I've noticed is that women find me sulking. My previous girlfriends have sometimes asked me "What's wrong?" or "I guess you didn't like that all, right?", even though I haven't said anything to indicate that I was unhappy. With my friends' girlfriends it's been the same. They say that I'm clearly not enjoying myself when we hang out together. Once my female colleague had noticed me walking in the city centre and said that I looked like I was going to punch the next person I meet. I don't really understand this. I'm a bit introverted and quiet, but why do people always take that as a sign of discontent or hostility.

    What am I supposed to do about this?

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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 25: Now with extra Valentine

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon_Dahl View Post
    I'm just trying to analyze here why is it so hard for me to find date.

    One thing that I've noticed is that women find me sulking. My previous girlfriends have sometimes asked me "What's wrong?" or "I guess you didn't like that all, right?", even though I haven't said anything to indicate that I was unhappy. With my friends' girlfriends it's been the same. They say that I'm clearly not enjoying myself when we hang out together. Once my female colleague had noticed me walking in the city centre and said that I looked like I was going to punch the next person I meet. I don't really understand this. I'm a bit introverted and quiet, but why do people always take that as a sign of discontent or hostility.

    What am I supposed to do about this?
    Smile more? But I know how hard that is. However ... you could smile at women you like, so that they know you like them.

    Maybe you are just the kind of person who looks permanently unhappy. You can only tell people that that's your neutral face and it just looks like this.

    Or you're really just introverted and quiet. In which case I can't help you because I have the same problem.

    @Driderman: Well, in my case, my personality is much less appealing than my looks (which are quite okay, but I don't care to improve them with make up, so ... ), but it feels good to have asked, anyway.
    Last edited by Themrys; 2014-04-25 at 04:08 AM.

  30. - Top - End - #240
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 25: Now with extra Valentine

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon_Dahl View Post
    I'm just trying to analyze here why is it so hard for me to find date.

    One thing that I've noticed is that women find me sulking. My previous girlfriends have sometimes asked me "What's wrong?" or "I guess you didn't like that all, right?", even though I haven't said anything to indicate that I was unhappy. With my friends' girlfriends it's been the same. They say that I'm clearly not enjoying myself when we hang out together. Once my female colleague had noticed me walking in the city centre and said that I looked like I was going to punch the next person I meet. I don't really understand this. I'm a bit introverted and quiet, but why do people always take that as a sign of discontent or hostility.

    What am I supposed to do about this?
    I'll second Themrys: Smile more. Smile A LOT more.

    And get in the habit of making appreciative statements often. "That was fun", "I'm really enjoying this," "It was super cool of you guys to invite me tonight!", "That [work you did on X] is super good work, you rock!", "I just had a great day, how was yours?"
    Basically, anything that says that you value other people and their company. Of course body language (and smiles!) are the most important part, but some direct communication can alleviate a lot of bad body language. Plus, compliments and positivity makes people feel good, so bonus.

    Note your body language. Do you slouch? Do you keep your arms close, your body closed off? Do you instinctively close your hands? Practise throwing your shoulders back, keeping your arms open and your chin slightly out. I know that'll make you seem even bigger, but also more open and less... angry.

    You don't say whether or not you're actually unhappy when they remark upon it. I'm assuming that they're seeing discontent where there is none, but if you're actually wondering how they can see right through your carefully-hidden sulking... that's another problem entirely.
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