Diablo III - Loot 2.0

[huttj509]

Of course I don't need them.

However, legendary items enable or enhance builds. I'd love to find a Wand of Woh, Gesture of Orpheus, or Slorak's Madness with a socket. Or even the double hydra wand. I'd also like more Stones of Jordan (only one I have rolled cold damage), a Magefist, and a Tal Rasha Belt and a Tal Rasha Amulet that didn't roll like absolute garbage.

The point is, if you can do the game in a few hours on Torment 2, and The_Jackal can only manage to speed through a lower difficulty in the same timeframe, then yes, Torment 2 will have better drops.

Most people do not have the gear to go through Torment 2 in the 2.5 hours we can do a lower diff speedrun in.

[orrion]

The point is, if you can do the game in a few hours on Torment 2, and The_Jackal can only manage to speed through a lower difficulty in the same timeframe, then yes, Torment 2 will have better drops.

Most people do not have the gear to go through Torment 2 in the 2.5 hours we can do a lower diff speedrun in.

The original point seemed to be that doing it on the lower difficulty was better regardless because of the speed, and I was disputing that.

[The_Jackal]

Save your money, Traab. Anything you can buy on the AH will be TRIVIAL to replace once RoS comes out.

[NineThePuma]

wizards are the farming gods then?

[The_Jackal]

Any class can put up some decent AOE.

[Manticoran]

What's the best way to farm up in exp? I got the game a few days ago, and I've got a 49ish Wizard. I've been just wrecking Diablo over and over on normal difficulty, but I have to think there's something better.

[huttj509]

What's the best way to farm up in exp? I got the game a few days ago, and I've got a 49ish Wizard. I've been just wrecking Diablo over and over on normal difficulty, but I have to think there's something better.

Play on the highest difficulty that gives you the kill speed you prefer.

Go through the story completing quests and killing stuff.

[The_Jackal]

Get a socketed hat, put the best ruby you can find in it. Then start killing demons.

[Chen]

The original point seemed to be that doing it on the lower difficulty was better regardless because of the speed, and I was disputing that.

The drop rate difference of legendaries between normal and torment 6 seems pretty damn small from all I've read and experienced. Sure you get more gold drops but the actual legendary rate seems almost constant despite the fact the slider says you get more on higher torment levels.

From what I understand there's a safety net such that if you're playing for long enough with no legendary drops, the rate is steadily increased until you get a drop. Something around 1.5-2 hours I've read. It seems to match what I see when playing at torment 2 or higher difficulty. If the legendary drop rate is low enough and you're hitting this 1.5-2 hour safety net, any increase due to torment difficulty may be very hard to notice.

I've cleared the game at least a dozen times on lower difficulties and for the same amount of time spent I have FAR more legendaries to show for it (even excluding the guaranteed Diablo/Skeleton King one) than when I just farm certain areas on Torment 2-4. I suspect it just has to do with the amount of mobs killed per unit time. I suppose it might also have to do with the fact there are more guaranteed drops while doing quests. Some mobs always drop items and you're probably killing far more elites/rares/bosses than a normal run.

[Karoht]

Managed to finish two more Hellfire Rings on the weekend. So now I'm done with them as I have 1 of each type, and can just move them around from character to character as needed.
My Dex ring rolled terribad. Can't wait to use the Mystic and fix that.

My Barbarian and Witchdoctor do about 400K effective as a ballpark estimate. Their sheet damage is only about 80K each. Chances are I'm going to push the new act with these two characters first, then toss Hellfire rings on the Crusader + Enchantress and start mashing my way through from the beginning. Sadly I have no twink gear stockpiled for my Crusader other than the Hellfire Rings, but that's about all I need really.

DH I'm just not very interested in, too glass cannon for my tastes. Really only tags along when people are speed running as she can actually keep up
Wizard I love to pieces, especially with the new Lightning Stunmasta builds (oh Fulminator and Thunderfury, how awesome you would be), but my Wizard currently has next to no surviveability. It's cool, she's a funzies build that plays with other people, not solo.
Monk is doing really unpredictable damage but is reliably taking next to no damage. I can't wait for the Mystic though, because most of my Monk's gear is terrible, most of it just needs a few minor corrections to be awesome. OMG need more crit chance, convert resistances to the same type or all resist, etc.

So now that I don't need Hellfire Ring parts (no more key farming, yaaaay) I'm on to Paragon Level farming. And I have a hot tip for anyone who wants fast Paragon Levels.
1-Go to act one. Teleport to the following locations and find Pools of Reflection. If you find shines, go murder things until your shrine buff wears off.
-Leorics Manor-Clear it out and go out to the front of the manor. Kill the elites out front, there is almost always a shrine or pool out there. Don't bother crossing the bridge.
-Warriors Rest/Crypt of the Ancients-Clear them out while you are there, lots of XP and there are usually 2 Pools between them. Alternate farming option, just do that quest over and over, as it nets you a pretty good chunk of XP.
-Fields of Misery (go hunt for the Keywarden if you want but this is optional)
-The one right after the spider caves-Often has a shrine, sometimes has a Pool.
Just clearing out Leorics and WR/Crypt will net you a decent chunk with some excellent drop chances, never mind potentially netting you a Pool or two.
2-Go to act two. Select the Black Soulstone quest. Go and murder Zoltan Kule. On Torment 4 you get about 7 million XP without any PoR buffs. On T1-2 it's about 2-3 million give or take. Plus he has a decent drop chance, and killing him only takes about 2 minutes, so it's worth the time input (to a point). Pool bonuses apply as well.
3-Go to act 3. Kill Azmodan, then go into act 4 and kill Iskatu. Excellent drop chances and loads of XP. Potentially extend to killing Rakinoth as well, it is a short jaunt after Iskatu.
All of the above made faster with Hellfire Rings (your companion can equip one, you get the bonus XP as well), and a Red gem in the helm socket. I'm currently doing this on T2 and netting a level every 10 minutes, downtime not withstanding. Made faster running in a group.
As for difficulty, keep it on whatever you can faceroll, or encounter minor challenge, go no higher than these.

[Psyren]

Finally beat the game. The ending was pretty disappointing - very abrupt, no inkling of where Adria had gone, and I was hoping there would be at least some hint as to what the characters who weren't Tyrael would be up to. Granted they could be saving some or all of that for after Reaper of Souls, but I don't think a few thoughts from inside my Demon Hunter's head - even just some vaguely grim determination - would necessarily have to conflict with that.

I'm 3 levels off from 60 so no torment for me yet.

[Karoht]

I knew the ending was leaving things ambiguous for the sequel.
And as far as I could tell from the RoS Beta, the first cinematics cover pretty much the territory you just mentioned.

Big questions:
-What the hell Maltheal?
-What the hell Adria?
-How do we deal with the Black Soulstone?
-Is Leah's soul recoverable or is she gone forever?
-Other evils/angels? Lilith for example, Imperious for another.
-The gem that Shen is looking for, what does it do, how big an impact will it have, and will I be able to attain it and slot it?
-Did someone say Thunderfury? If so, who?

[The_Jackal]

I'll forgive them the chumptastic ending if RoS puts the plot on a more interesting course, though to be honest, the way the game is played, the plot is probably the weakest contributor to the game experience. DIII is basically Rogue with a GUI, or Gauntlet redux, depending on your proclivities.

[Psyren]

And as far as I could tell from the RoS Beta, the first cinematics cover pretty much the territory you just mentioned.

Well, for the most part the territory I mentioned is actually in your "big questions" list which neither cinematic really addressed. I knew RoS would center around Malthael just from the teaser image, but all the cinematic told us was "Tyrael tried to lock up the stone and Mal took it (for reasons), apparently having become the Angel of Death." And of course, he conveniently left our exposition fairy alive, using standard villain derpitude.

But I'm okay with that big questions list (or at least most of it) being addressed in RoS itself. What I was more upset about was that, if the game was going to go for a character-focused cinematic for the prologue and act dividers, they could have thrown in an epilogue for my guy too. Clearly I'm off doing something, because Tyrael implores his horadric lackeys to "find the Nephalem!" So if I'm not with them, then where am I? In Kingsport helping the Scoundrel with his family? Am I helping the Templar/Enchantress piece together their pasts? Am I just nuking the remnants of Azmodan's army for the lulz? Could I even be tracking down the remnants of Leah's body? All of that would matter a lot more to me than the stone or Adria, to be perfectly honest.

I'll forgive them the chumptastic ending if RoS puts the plot on a more interesting course, though to be honest, the way the game is played, the plot is probably the weakest contributor to the game experience. DIII is basically Rogue with a GUI, or Gauntlet redux, depending on your proclivities.

Honestly the plot isn't bad. Deckard Cain being the last Horadrim was a fairly big twist back then (i.e. when people still read game manuals... I remember poring over my Diablo manual for hours because of all the cool art in it.) Even bigger was the Warrior being Leoric's other son, the canon class that beat the first game, and Diablo's host in D2.

But again, it's not the plot that makes D3 stand out - it's the personality they gave the PCs and mercs. At first, I thought the Templar was trying too hard to be a badass and the Scoundrel was two-dimensionally smarmy, and instantly disliked them both. But before long I found myself returning to town just to hear them talk to each other some more. The fact that the two you leave behind chat it up in town is also a nice touch. I'm actually more interested in replaying the game to hear all the banter than I am to try out new classes and builds, which is a franchise first for me - it's one of the reasons I replay Mass Effect so much too, I'm a sucker for well-written characters. For the first time in a Diablo game I both don't mind playing solo or exploring every nook and cranny of a dungeon just to get the characters gabbing. And I'm especially looking forward to any new dialogue we get out of them in RoS.

They do all lay it on kind of thick after you take out Diablo though.

[Karoht]

Gauntlet, but waaaaaaay more interesting.
Been that way since D2 really.

Also, I wouldn't really expect a conclussive ending here. I recall that they were expecting 2 D3 expansions, not just one. Possibly more than that. Can they really wrap up the story in one act? Even if that act is jam packed, I'm not certain that what they have laid out can be done in a single act, so I'm expecting a second expansion after that. Just concluding the Nephalem storyline could be an expansion unto itself.

[Psyren]

Oh yeah, to add one to your Big Questions list - Covetous Shen's gem. I'm getting a very clear Kang The Mad vibe from him. And the new crafter will likely have lots of lore as well.

[The_Jackal]

Honestly the plot isn't bad. Deckard Cain being the last Horadrim was a fairly big twist back then (i.e. when people still read game manuals... I remember poring over my Diablo manual for hours because of all the cool art in it.) Even bigger was the Warrior being Leoric's other son, the canon class that beat the first game, and Diablo's host in D2.

But again, it's not the plot that makes D3 stand out - it's the personality they gave the PCs and mercs. At first, I thought the Templar was trying too hard to be a badass and the Scoundrel was two-dimensionally smarmy, and instantly disliked them both. But before long I found myself returning to town just to hear them talk to each other some more. The fact that the two you leave behind chat it up in town is also a nice touch. I'm actually more interested in replaying the game to hear all the banter than I am to try out new classes and builds, which is a franchise first for me - it's one of the reasons I replay Mass Effect so much too, I'm a sucker for well-written characters. For the first time in a Diablo game I both don't mind playing solo or exploring every nook and cranny of a dungeon just to get the characters gabbing. And I'm especially looking forward to any new dialogue we get out of them in RoS.

They do all lay it on kind of thick after you take out Diablo though.

I'm not saying the plot is bad, I'm saying that of all the Blizzard titles, it has the least compelling effect on actual gameplay (actually, I lie, now that Heroes of the Storm is a thing, that becomes the 'derp, story, just shut up and play' title), because the gameplay is so founded in repetition. Deckard Cain is a running joke in my gaming group, because he won't shut up when you know it's time for the next Boss trudge. ("You've found Khalim's Colon!")

Yes, the story is pretty good, and Diablo III does take it up a notch from "Lords of Hell over there, KILL THEY ASS.". Which is not to say it's very important. But that's an discussion we've already had here, and my feelings on the topic are known.

[Chen]

So now that I don't need Hellfire Ring parts (no more key farming, yaaaay) I'm on to Paragon Level farming. And I have a hot tip for anyone who wants fast Paragon Levels.
1-Go to act one. Teleport to the following locations and find Pools of Reflection. If you find shines, go murder things until your shrine buff wears off.
-Leorics Manor-Clear it out and go out to the front of the manor. Kill the elites out front, there is almost always a shrine or pool out there. Don't bother crossing the bridge.
-Warriors Rest/Crypt of the Ancients-Clear them out while you are there, lots of XP and there are usually 2 Pools between them. Alternate farming option, just do that quest over and over, as it nets you a pretty good chunk of XP.
-Fields of Misery (go hunt for the Keywarden if you want but this is optional)
-The one right after the spider caves-Often has a shrine, sometimes has a Pool.
Just clearing out Leorics and WR/Crypt will net you a decent chunk with some excellent drop chances, never mind potentially netting you a Pool or two.
2-Go to act two. Select the Black Soulstone quest. Go and murder Zoltan Kule. On Torment 4 you get about 7 million XP without any PoR buffs. On T1-2 it's about 2-3 million give or take. Plus he has a decent drop chance, and killing him only takes about 2 minutes, so it's worth the time input (to a point). Pool bonuses apply as well.
3-Go to act 3. Kill Azmodan, then go into act 4 and kill Iskatu. Excellent drop chances and loads of XP. Potentially extend to killing Rakinoth as well, it is a short jaunt after Iskatu.
All of the above made faster with Hellfire Rings (your companion can equip one, you get the bonus XP as well), and a Red gem in the helm socket. I'm currently doing this on T2 and netting a level every 10 minutes, downtime not withstanding. Made faster running in a group.
As for difficulty, keep it on whatever you can faceroll, or encounter minor challenge, go no higher than these.

For the most efficient xp its running Crypt of the Ancients over and over again. You go in, kill all the white mobs, port out. Repeat. With 200k sheet dps (~25 bonus damage to frozen orb on boots/bracers), 500k toughness doing the crypt on T4 is extremely easy and gets anywhere from 10-30 million xp per run. It comes out somewhere to 400-500 million per hour and that's honestly me being somewhat inefficient with it. There are tons of videos showing over a billion xp per hour. Considering how fast you go in and out, I often have a full Pool of Reflection bar as well since it can spawn in two places in there. The only thing is that it gets pretty mind numbing. Run a few then go do a run of Act 3 or something and it becomes less tedious (and only slightly less efficient)

[Traab]

Dont EVER link that guy again! Dear god, I dont think he ever took a breath or dropped below 70 words per minute.

[Karoht]

Dont EVER link that guy again! Dear god, I dont think he ever took a breath or dropped below 70 words per minute.

I've scanned the whole page and I have absolutely no idea who or what you are talking about.

[Psyren]

I'm not going to get too much into the swing of farming since I have a good feeling the new RoS adventure mode is going to be the ideal way to do that going forward.

Dont EVER link that guy again! Dear god, I dont think he ever took a breath or dropped below 70 words per minute.

Well yeah, that's kind of his thing it's called "Zero Punctuation" because he goes almost without pausing.

("You've found Khalim's Colon!")

Oh god I read that in his voice and I just - slurpee all over my desk

Yes, the story is pretty good, and Diablo III does take it up a notch from "Lords of Hell over there, KILL THEY ASS.". Which is not to say it's very important. But that's an discussion we've already had here, and my feelings on the topic are known.

I definitely agree that the 'Yahtzee plot summary' applies Also, there's some really odd plot elements too, like the angels literally losing hope because Hope got stuffed into a broom closet, or Fate not being able to predict anything meaningful until it's too late, or why Diablo is routinely the strongest of the 7 despite being the youngest (really, I would have made him "Lord of Sin" instead - and why is Sin a lesser evil when it could really encompass all the others anyway?) and how Diablo was able to shut off all their wings etc. I mean, I suppose Diablo IS the Lord of Sin now, along with everything else, but still.

Anyway I was merely saying the plot is...adequate, passable. An excuse for us to charge from set-piece to set-piece spraying AoE everywhere and gobbling lootz. But while it's easy to dismiss Diablo as a hack-and-slash and say "nobody plays it for the story" - I say instead that where Diablo has always shone is the characterization. All the way from Farnham the sorrowful town drunk and stern Griswold in D1, to fierce Kashya and oily Gheed and sweet Charsi in D2, and they really cranked that dial to 11 in D3. Especially the voice acting - Zoltun Kulle had me questioning his sanity with every word, and the mini stories like the noblewoman and the guard, or the sentry who yells at your for not raising the winch fast enough, or the soldier and his sweetheart, and literally everything from James Hong.

[Karoht]

I have a friend who is an english speaking immigrant from Hong Kong.
Covetous Shen? His favorite character.
"Yay, they got my stereotype exactly right."
Though I'm sure there was someone out there who was offended, he was a really well received and amusing character. And his voice acting was top notch. However, I found myself waiting for him to mention noodles thanks to watching Kung Fu Panda for the first time not more than a week before the game came out.

[hamishspence]

But while it's easy to dismiss Diablo as a hack-and-slash and say "nobody plays it for the story" - I say instead that where Diablo has always shone is the characterization. All the way from Farnham the sorrowful town drunk and stern Griswold in D1, to fierce Kashya and oily Gheed and sweet Charsi in D2, and they really cranked that dial to 11 in D3. Especially the voice acting - Zoltun Kulle had me questioning his sanity with every word, and the mini stories like the noblewoman and the guard, or the sentry who yells at your for not raising the winch fast enough, or the soldier and his sweetheart, and literally everything from James Hong.

Seconded. Still remember a lot of the lines from the first game.

[The_Jackal]

Dont EVER link that guy again! Dear god, I dont think he ever took a breath or dropped below 70 words per minute.

I've scanned the whole page and I have absolutely no idea who or what you are talking about.

He means my Zero Punctuation link. Sorry, man, it's kind of his schtick. He is hilarious, however.

Oh god I read that in his voice and I just - slurpee all over my desk

Yeah, it had much the same effect on me when my friend first cracked that joke.

I say instead that where Diablo has always shone is the characterization. All the way from Farnham the sorrowful town drunk and stern Griswold in D1, to fierce Kashya and oily Gheed and sweet Charsi in D2, and they really cranked that dial to 11 in D3.

Agreed, and I too really liked the Zoltun Kulle bits from D3 as well (also, they got a fantastic voice actor for him, Steve Blum, of Cowboy Bebop fame, that never hurts). No, I will totally agree that the strength of Diablo over its competitors is its story and polish. But I will point out that it had that story and polish from launch, and it was widely hailed as a calamitous failure, because of the faults in the gameplay and metagame. THAT is why I continue to harp on game >>>> story. Not because story isn't important, it's just decidedly LESS important than your core game.

There's lots of ways you can add polish to a game to make it memorable, not just story, and those details are often what stays with you about a game. For me, the haunting original Tristram theme is what elevated the original Diablo from mere game to art. But if the game had had mediocre gameplay, it would have never gotten the years of enjoyment I had from it, and likely would not have become the staple Blizzard franchise we have now.

[Karoht]

@Story
It's just good enough to justify the premise and create enough immersion and investment. It's just not massive amounts of immersion and investment.

[orrion]

Well, for the most part the territory I mentioned is actually in your "big questions" list which neither cinematic really addressed. I knew RoS would center around Malthael just from the teaser image, but all the cinematic told us was "Tyrael tried to lock up the stone and Mal took it (for reasons), apparently having become the Angel of Death." And of course, he conveniently left our exposition fairy alive, using standard villain derpitude.

No, actually, he left Tyrael alive because -

Spoiler

Show

Malthael's goal is to purge the demons, and humanity has the demonic taint since they are part demon and part angel. Tyrael, who was an angel, does not have the demonic taint and therefore is not one of Malthael's targets.

Honestly the plot isn't bad. Deckard Cain being the last Horadrim was a fairly big twist back then (i.e. when people still read game manuals... I remember poring over my Diablo manual for hours because of all the cool art in it.) Even bigger was the Warrior being Leoric's other son, the canon class that beat the first game, and Diablo's host in D2.

Cain being the last guy wasn't really a twist. It was just an explanation for how the heck he knew so much.

And the Warrior being Leoric's son wasn't a twist, it was a retcon. Originally the Warrior had no such connection.



Far as Kulle goes, I was extremely disappointed that he was offed so quickly. I thought he realized that betrayal was coming when the demonic souls were absorbed. Killing him immediately without any further interaction was a let down, especially when you spent most of the act bringing him back.

[The_Jackal]

Far as Kulle goes, I was extremely disappointed that he was offed so quickly. I thought he realized that betrayal was coming when the demonic souls were absorbed. Killing him immediately without any further interaction was a let down, especially when you spent most of the act bringing him back.

Utterly agreed. It would have been better to have him escape, making his golems the bosses you had to encounter. I also have some suspension of disbelief issues that the dude who spent the last few hundred years dead, then saw you pimp-smack your way through all the demons and hellspawn to resurrect him, would immediately pick a fight rather than just bug out while the getting is good.

[Psyren]

No, actually, he left Tyrael alive because -

Spoiler

Show

Malthael's goal is to purge the demons, and humanity has the demonic taint since they are part demon and part angel. Tyrael, who was an angel, does not have the demonic taint and therefore is not one of Malthael's targets.

Doesn't matter, he's human now; It's still a boneheaded move. So much for wisdom...

Not to mention that Tyrael's very essence was blasted apart by the corrupted worldstone, so if Malthael is really that much of a cosmic germophobe he really should be incinerating the guy first and foremost.

And the Warrior being Leoric's son wasn't a twist, it was a retcon. Originally the Warrior had no such connection.

That's not what retcon means; a retcon has to contradict established continuity. If it was simply a blank detail they filled in later, that's a reveal.

Besides, the other two classes belonged to prominent organizations - the sorcerer was a Vizjerei, and the rogue was a Sister of the Sightless Eye. Meanwhile the Warrior was "some dude with a sword." Expanding his background was only logical. The one snippet of background that we got about him - that he may have been serving in the Westmarch military - still fits perfectly considering that princes often had to do that in order to learn how to lead/command soldiers.

Far as Kulle goes, I was extremely disappointed that he was offed so quickly. I thought he realized that betrayal was coming when the demonic souls were absorbed. Killing him immediately without any further interaction was a let down, especially when you spent most of the act bringing him back.

I guess this is an expectation gap. I went in fully expecting to fight the guy after bringing him back, and was actually surprised that he took us to the stone instead of cackling and running off to get it first. Instead, they gave us a pretty compelling reason for his betrayal - not mere lust for power, but the opportunity of a lifetime due to all of the prime evils being in his stone.

As far as "bugging out" we have little reason to believe he could. If he could have absconded with the stone that easily, he would have done it before when the Horadrim came knocking.

[Karoht]

As far as "bugging out" we have little reason to believe he could. If he could have absconded with the stone that easily, he would have done it before when the Horadrim came knocking.

Dang, now I kind of hope that they expand on that. A flashback featuring Kule VS most of the Horadrim just sounds awesome.

I won't hold my breath, but maybe we will get such a flashback. Afterall, they will want to detail exactly what the Black Soulstone is and/or how it was made. Moreover, why they ignored it/why it is so dangerous (beyond storing the souls of the greatest evil beings of all time).

Kule also had a plan to make everyone Nephalem. That probably will come up I imagine.

[Psyren]

You learn why the Horadrim wanted to stop him if you find all of his journals and theirs. One of his mentions how he got tired of angelic meddling (I'm guessing he had a conversation or two with Imperius - sunny fellow, that) and he secretly plans on sealing the angels away in his improved stone(s) as well.

So basically he was planning to wipe out Heaven too, which would be evil.

We also learn how the battle went from the Horadrim journals. Kulle had achieved immortality - so even though they defeated him, he "bled sand and laughed at them." It seems though that whatever method he used to achieve invulnerability, it didn't take nephalem into account.