Warhammer Fantasy Thread VI: The Undiscovered Country

[Eldan]

Some of those sound extremely powerful. Sure, not "wizard is dead" powerful, but still.

[HerbieRAI]

Wizard must make a characteristic test. If failed, the wizard is turned into a ____. At the begining of the contorlling players turn they can attempt the characteristic test again to turn back into a wizard. While a ____ he cannot attack, cast, or dispell.

You can cycle through different characteristic tests and different creatures.
Toughness Test or turn into a frog
WS test or turn into a weasle
STR test or turn into a badger
BS test or turn into a Raven

the last one could be real deadly to slann, who I think have 0 BS.

[Eldan]

Or perhaps a softer version of an existing one: "Wizard loses the spell he tried to cast, roll a new one from the same lore".

[Winterwind]

I imagine the following might not be that popular due to making players buy certain models, but I feel like it might be worth it in this instance:
- X lesser daemons (bloodletters/daemonettes/pink horrors/plaguebearers, opponent's choice) under control of the opponent appear on the battlefield. The opponent can place them within 8" of the wizard, after which they scatter 2d6".
- X skeleton warriors or Y grave/tomb guard or Z zombies (opponent's choice) under control of the opponent appear on the battlefield. The opponent can place them within 8" of the wizard, after which they scatter 2d6".
- A bloodletter/daemonette/pink horror/plaguebearer champion appears in base-to-base contact with the wizard. They are in a challenge now. No other character models can intervene into this challenge during the current player turn. The champion does anything in its power to kill the wizard, and vanishes instantly if it accomplishes that task.

Further ideas:
- all enemy units within 12" of the wizard get [insert special rule or stat modification here], until the wizard's next magic phase.
- the closest 1d3 enemy units may instantly move up to X".
- until the wizard's next magic phase, his army cannot benefit from Inspiring Presence or Hold Your Ground.
- the opponent may instantly place a piece of terrain (insert list of possible terrain pieces here) anywhere within 12" of the wizard.

[Eldan]

Any piece of terrain is perhaps a bit vague, but...

"Cracks open in the earth. The opponent may place a 2"x6" marker of some kind at any point within 12" of the wizard, then it scatters d6". It count as impassable terrain."

[Elhann]

I primarily use forests, rivers/lakes buildings and impassible terrain. And I see players choosing lanes with their units, dependent on the terrain. No ranked unit wants to go into a forest (majority) or a river so to lose steadfast if they are in charge range of my Wyvern Warboss.

Getting through a river is a nightmare for a ranked unit. Any deep unit takes forever to move through it, as you can't march. I wouldn't want any terrain to slow things down more then that. Perhaps make it so you can't march through a forest unless you have Forest Strider.

Oh, I wouldn't like terrain that slows the game down like river-crossing, but I'd REALLY like terrain that matters. As it is now, unless it is a huge piece, terrain just doesn't matter. Small woods can be just marched through, and almost nothing blocks line of sight*.

Besides, I consider "misterious terrain" slows the game, too, making one of the problems of this edition worse. Rolling dice for the sake of rolling dice.

*Actually, using abstract line of sight as in previous editions would be a change I'd embrace with all my heart.

[Tanuki Tales]

I'll just stick to the first 7 books being cannon. Things have gotten weird since that time skip...

The timeskip hasn't actually happened yet. Unless you mean the weird "time-splintering" from Giant Slayer.

[hamishspence]

There's a 20 year gap between Giantslayer and Orcslayer.

[Tanuki Tales]

There's a 20 year gap between Giantslayer and Orcslayer.

Welp, I feel stupid.

Yeah, forgot about that one. And I don't know, I really liked all the Nathan Long novels.

[Tehnar]

While this might be thread necromancy, it is the End Times after all and Nagash is undead again. Joking aside, I'll create a new thread if the mods think its warranted.

On topic:

Now that the End Times are out, what do you think of it? Did it get you excited for Fantasy again?

Personally I like the fluff, though the scenarios lack something to me. I would prefer if they were tied together more, with victories adding some bonuses to the next mission/scenario. Also it seems like the scenarios were made for huge games (over 4000 points) rather then the normal 2000/2500 point games.

[Eldan]

I haven't looked at the scenarios, but I played a game of 4500 points of combined Undead vs. Skaven. Skaven victory. Ironically, a lot of that was due to undead summoning. I managed to distract the enemy cavalry with skeleton units for most of the game while I smashed my main battle line through his.

[Tome]

While this might be thread necromancy, it is the End Times after all and Nagash is undead again. Joking aside, I'll create a new thread if the mods think its warranted.

On topic:

Now that the End Times are out, what do you think of it? Did it get you excited for Fantasy again?

Personally I like the fluff, though the scenarios lack something to me. I would prefer if they were tied together more, with victories adding some bonuses to the next mission/scenario. Also it seems like the scenarios were made for huge games (over 4000 points) rather then the normal 2000/2500 point games.

It might have done... but the book for Chaos is all about Nurgle, who I'm not terribly fond of. Tzeentch or Khorne please.

Maybe if it has rules for fielding mixed armies of any god?

[Eldan]

There's presumably more books coming later. Rumour is one for a combined all-elf army.

[Tehnar]

I will get the second part later, probably around xmas, so I can't comment. Rumor is that legions of chaos are back, with being able to field WoC, DoC and BoC in the same list.

I also hear rumors the new "starter set" will be "humans" vs chaos. So my opinion is that future books will be:

Humans (Empire/Brettonia)
Elves (DE/HE/WE)
Chaos (WoC/BoC/DoC)
Undead (Vampires/TK)

which leaves:
Skaven
OnG
Ogres
Lizardmen
Dwarves

as solo, uncombined forces. Perhaps you could fold in Dwarves with the humans, but I don't see a way for others to fit in anywhere.

[Eldan]

Lizardmen and elves, maybe, as something like "Forces of the Ancients"? Wonky, I know. Skaven can't really work with anyone. Maybe they could hire ogre mercenaries, but evne that is hard. OnG do their own thing.

[Winterwind]

Haven't had a look at it yet; I admittedly haven't spent anywhere near as much time with the hobby as I'd like lately, and all of what I did spend with the hobby was limited to painting, not playing or keeping up with new releases.

So what's up with the three types of Elves allying? How does that come about? Also, how much do the people who have read it like it fluff-wise? Because just from hearing about it, my biggest concern would be that it might destroy the unique identity of armies - Vampires and Tomb Kings were nothing alike, both with their very own and unique style and fluff, yet now they are just one faction?

Lizardmen and elves, maybe, as something like "Forces of the Ancients"? Wonky, I know. Skaven can't really work with anyone. Maybe they could hire ogre mercenaries, but evne that is hard. OnG do their own thing.

Ogres and O&G would both qualify as "not exactly super-smart, but with a great appetite for destruction, hence fairly easily manipulated into fighting". I don't think it would be a stretch to put Ogres, O&G and Skaven together, with the former two being manipulated into doing the dirty work for the latter.

[Eldan]

http://1d4chan.org/wiki/The_End_Times

Here's a sort of chaotic list-like summary of the new background. For the elves:
Chaos is besieging Naggaroth, so Malekith is very busy and its rumoured he might consider an alliance to push back chaos. Morathi may be dead.
Something happened to the elven gods. Aliathra was sacrificed to Nagash, but it turns out her bloodline was flawed, so he now has the curse of Anerion. Finubar is sad and has withdrawn from the word, so Teclis and Tyrion have command. Eltharion is dead. Caledor might try to start a second civil war. The wood elves wanted to hide, but Nagash's corrupt magic is killing the Tree of Ages and Ariel. Alarielle came over to help, which might be the beginning of a wood elf-high elf alliance. Araloth has sort of vanished with all his armies.

So far, they are optional rules. You can play Tomb Kings, or Vampires, or combine both. I really see it more like "here's some optional units you can only use if you ally these armies".

As for the Tomb Kings, they had little choice. Nagash is trying to eat all the other gods, including those of chaos. He ate the Tomb King god of the Underworld and defeated Settra, who refused to join him. Arkhan and Khalida had to roll over and cooperate or die.

[thethird]

Last time I played fantasy Legions of Chaos were still a thing :P I actually had a conjoined army at the time, so I think that merging them back could be pretty cool. Of course I don't really know how this is going to play out, during the storm of chaos campaign it was rigged from the beginning, but I've got an interest in the narrative.

The possibility of all three elves armies mixed up would be really cool, and might get me back into the hobby. I actually wanted to play Dark Elves when I started but there were no boxed regiments at the time.

Estalia disappearing makes me terribly sad though.

[Eldan]

Estalia and Tilea. And it seems Kislev might not make it either.

[thethird]

I guess we won't be seeing Cathai any time soon, even if it would be rad.

[HerbieRAI]

If they're combinding dark elves and high elves into a book they could combind Skaven, OnG, and Ogres as a "Marauder Armies" type of thing. Only Lizards and Dwarfs would be left alone, although Dwarf could go with the humans.

[LCP]

I feel compelled to point out that the only armies that have thus far received the joint list treatment are ones who in previous editions were one army book. 4th edition Undead got downsized into 5th edition VC, then split into 6th edition VC/TK; 5th edition Realms of Chaos got split into 6th edition Hordes of Chaos and Beasts of Chaos, then further into Warriors, Beastmen and Daemons.

All this talk about united Elves and trying to blob every army together with a partner is pure speculation.

Not feeling great about Legions of Chaos though. Warriors and Daemons are two of the strongest army books around... the idea of picking and choosing freely from the best units of both books doesn't sound fun to play against.

[ZeltArruin]

http://1d4chan.org/wiki/The_End_Times

Here's a sort of chaotic list-like summary of the new background. For the elves:
Chaos is besieging Naggaroth, so Malekith is very busy and its rumoured he might consider an alliance to push back chaos. Morathi may be dead.
Something happened to the elven gods. Aliathra was sacrificed to Nagash, but it turns out her bloodline was flawed, so he now has the curse of Anerion. Finubar is sad and has withdrawn from the word, so Teclis and Tyrion have command. Eltharion is dead. Caledor might try to start a second civil war. The wood elves wanted to hide, but Nagash's corrupt magic is killing the Tree of Ages and Ariel. Alarielle came over to help, which might be the beginning of a wood elf-high elf alliance. Araloth has sort of vanished with all his armies.

So far, they are optional rules. You can play Tomb Kings, or Vampires, or combine both. I really see it more like "here's some optional units you can only use if you ally these armies".

As for the Tomb Kings, they had little choice. Nagash is trying to eat all the other gods, including those of chaos. He ate the Tomb King god of the Underworld and defeated Settra, who refused to join him. Arkhan and Khalida had to roll over and cooperate or die.

Sounds like it's time for Tyrion to draw the Sword of Khaine and show Nagash how to die.

[Eldan]

I'd say the Skvaen should dig out the Fellblade again. It's traditional to kill Nagash with it.

[Avaris]

I'd say the Skvaen should dig out the Fellblade again. It's traditional to kill Nagash with it.

Might be a little bit difficult... it was destroyed in Nagash's resurrection.

Personally, I find the End Times an interesting concept. Haven't played Warhammer in years, but bought book 1. Seems alright, but the story suffers a bit from assumed knowledge, and the standard scale of destruction issue warhammer normally has (two countries gone so far, and most of bretonnia's population...)

[Tehnar]

With End Times 2 coming up the rules for Glotkin have been leaked.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2014/...are-about.html

Seems like a tough character (12 W), though no flight means it can be delayed for most of the game. And shot. Repeatedly. With flaming cannons. Though it seems the biggest weakness is Purple Sun/Pit of Shades with its I1. Seriously, those spells need a nerf/errata that they don't remove models.

Storywise, I read that Aldorf is gone. I am really interested to see what will happen to the Empire/Brettonia at the end of End times.

[Eldan]

Might be a little bit difficult... it was destroyed in Nagash's resurrection.

Really? Damn shame that. Must have missed it. Let's get Ikit on making some new eapon, then. Second time should be easier.

Don't think needs a leak? The book was standing in the shop were I usually go to last week, along with the model. Or were they just selling early?

[thethird]

Can you imagine Nagash winning and appearing as a faction in 40k and them discontinuing Fantasy?

[Eldan]

Wouldn't really work, would it. I mean, it would involve him eating the eldar and chaos gods. Unless the make some claim like that the Fantasy gods are lesser avatars.

[ZeltArruin]

Can you imagine Nagash winning and appearing as a faction in 40k and them discontinuing Fantasy?

Given that the two universes aren't connected, this might cause some problems.