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  1. - Top - End - #91
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    Default Re: Upcoming TABLE Code Changes

    So, for anyone who wants it, I whipped up a quick Java program to convert old-style tables to new-style tables. It can turn this:

    Code:
    {table=head]Header 1|Header 2
    Item 1|Item 2
    Item 3|Item 4[/table]
    ...into either this:

    Code:
    {table="class:grid"]
    [tr][th]Header 1[/th][th]Header 2[/th][/tr]
    [tr][td]Item 1[/td][td]Item 2[/td][/tr]
    [tr][td]Item 3[/td][td]Item 4[/td][/tr]
    [/table]
    ...or this:

    Code:
    {table="class:grid"]
    [tr]
    [th]Header 1[/th]
    [th]Header 2[/th]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]Item 1[/td]
    [td]Item 2[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]Item 3[/td]
    [td]Item 4[/td]
    [/tr]
    [/table]
    ...depending on how compact you want the table. (And of course it handles normal tables without {table=head] as well.)


    Mods, is it okay for me to post a Dropbox link here for people to download it, or should this be handled over PM/email?
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  2. - Top - End - #92
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    Default Re: Upcoming TABLE Code Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesy74 View Post
    If you guys are able to search by regular expressions on the site (which I can write a small program to do, if needed), you can find/replace table syntax without messing up other posts.
    Find and replace was investigated fully. There was no safe and efficient way to implement it. Even as it stands, we are worried we might run into dawizard. This is not something we are accepting user submissions for.

    "My Hobby: Replacing your soap with gravy" by rtg0922, Doll and Clint "Rawhide" Eastwood by Sneak

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    Default Re: Upcoming TABLE Code Changes

    dawizard?


    Anywho, I cannot wait. Please, Hurry this up, I want eeeeet!
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  4. - Top - End - #94
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    Default Re: Upcoming TABLE Code Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowFireLance View Post
    dawizard?
    A find&replace error that changed "mage" to "wizard", including all mentions of the word "damage".

    My attack does 6 dawizard.
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  5. - Top - End - #95
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    Default Re: Upcoming TABLE Code Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowFireLance View Post
    dawizard?


    Anywho, I cannot wait. Please, Hurry this up, I want eeeeet!
    Here is a bit about that.
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  6. - Top - End - #96
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    Default Re: Upcoming TABLE Code Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by PairO'Dice Lost View Post
    So, for anyone who wants it, I whipped up a quick Java program to convert old-style tables to new-style tables. It can turn this:

    Code:
    {table=head]Header 1|Header 2
    Item 1|Item 2
    Item 3|Item 4[/table]
    ...into either this:

    Code:
    {table="class:grid"]
    [tr][th]Header 1[/th][th]Header 2[/th][/tr]
    [tr][td]Item 1[/td][td]Item 2[/td][/tr]
    [tr][td]Item 3[/td][td]Item 4[/td][/tr]
    [/table]
    ...or this:

    Code:
    {table="class:grid"]
    [tr]
    [th]Header 1[/th]
    [th]Header 2[/th]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]Item 1[/td]
    [td]Item 2[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]Item 3[/td]
    [td]Item 4[/td]
    [/tr]
    [/table]
    ...depending on how compact you want the table. (And of course it handles normal tables without {table=head] as well.)


    Mods, is it okay for me to post a Dropbox link here for people to download it, or should this be handled over PM/email?
    We will not be endorsing any such scripts due to the risk of developer abuse. If you wish to make it available, I suggest you make the code open source and upload it somewhere like github. Then, multiple members of the community will be able to see if the code is safe.

    P.S. For proper formatting, the spaced out option should tab intent the TD (and TH) cells.

    Quote Originally Posted by nyjastul69 View Post
    Here is a bit about that.
    Also linked in the first post.

    "My Hobby: Replacing your soap with gravy" by rtg0922, Doll and Clint "Rawhide" Eastwood by Sneak

  7. - Top - End - #97
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    Default Re: Upcoming TABLE Code Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Rawhide View Post

    Also linked in the first post.
    Crap! Sorry about that. I'm not sure how I missed that.
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  8. - Top - End - #98
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    Default Re: Upcoming TABLE Code Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowFireLance View Post
    We need to find Cipher and get her to update her post.
    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    That was my absolute first thought when I saw this. Is she still around?
    Hellllooooo.


    I'll update it eventually. Probably around a month after the change once I fully understand it and it seems necessary.

    I've worked with these kinds of tables already on other sites, and while I generally dislike them and have always wished other tables worked like what GITP had due to it's intuitive nature, I get how they work and after playing with the tables I can fix the tablemaking tutorial and presets.


    I'm very disappointed with the change though. For the reasons I said, the table system we have now is intuitive and anyone can use it really, with my tutorial just sort of reaffirming what someone could guess giving it a try on their own and showing them a trick or two they wouldn't naturally stumble across to help the tables look nicer in one way or another.


    One thing is for sure, I'll definitely see if I can fix my presets. Since I imagine a LOT of people wont want to work with the tables after the update. So they could just plug a preset table in and edit the text.

    Edit: That probably didn't look promising if you read that while my signature was failing >,..,>
    Last edited by Cipherthe3vil; 2014-03-08 at 05:45 PM.

    My Homebrew

  9. - Top - End - #99
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    Default Re: Upcoming TABLE Code Changes

    Originally Posted by Cipherthe3vil
    For the reasons I said, the table system we have now is intuitive and anyone can use it really, with my tutorial just sort of reaffirming what someone could guess giving it a try on their own and showing them a trick or two they wouldn't naturally stumble across to help the tables look nicer in one way or another.
    Well...I will just say that I find the current system (soon-to-be-old system) incredibly difficult and counterintuitive to work with. If it weren't for your extremely helpful table presets, I'd never have managed anything. For those of us for whom this stuff doesn't come naturally, your presets are a lifesaver.

    And I may be relying on your table presets with the new system, too.


  10. - Top - End - #100
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    Default Re: Upcoming TABLE Code Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    Well...I will just say that I find the current system (soon-to-be-old system) incredibly difficult and counterintuitive to work with. If it weren't for your extremely helpful table presets, I'd never have managed anything. For those of us for whom this stuff doesn't come naturally, your presets are a lifesaver.

    And I may be relying on your table presets with the new system, too.


    Thanks for the kind words. Not everything comes easily to everyone, I didn't mean to be so generalizing in my statement. I didn't fully think the subject through. But that's what I made the topic for, to make it so anyone can use tables and join the homebrewing community when they otherwise might not have.

    My Homebrew

  11. - Top - End - #101
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    Default Re: Upcoming TABLE Code Changes

    So when are the table changes scheduled to occur?
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  12. - Top - End - #102
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    Default Re: Upcoming TABLE Code Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Cross View Post
    So when are the table changes scheduled to occur?
    When the forums are upgraded.

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    Default Re: Upcoming TABLE Code Changes

    when are the forum upgrades scheduled to occur then?

  14. - Top - End - #104
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    Default Re: Upcoming TABLE Code Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Sian View Post
    when are the forum upgrades scheduled to occur then?
    I don't think we will get a more exact date than soonishTM.

    It has somewhere been said (can't locate the source) that there will be an fixed date announced probable 3 days before the forum is going down for upgrade.

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    Default Re: Upcoming TABLE Code Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Sian View Post
    when are the forum upgrades scheduled to occur then?
    Some time in the future.

    *

    As for the tables themselves: I've done some playing around. I don't find them too terribly difficult to work with once you get used to it. If you plan to work entirely in the WYSIWYG editor, it's really simple, actually. Couple clicks, fill in some numbers for number of rows and columns, and there's you're table - with the ability to easily add new rows/columns etc.

    Even in text mode (like making a post here now) once you get the hang of it, it's pretty easy - though it does require more tags. Being able to use white space (for example, being able to put each cell on its own line) is a huge help for me.
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  16. - Top - End - #106

    Default Re: Upcoming TABLE Code Changes

    After all the time I spent turning a pair of Custom Bloodlines I made on another site, into a working table here, and it's going back to how I had it?

    Ugh. If I weren't always so angry, I'd accept the amount of time wasted without complaining. This is me complaining btw.

  17. - Top - End - #107
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    Default Re: Upcoming TABLE Code Changes

    Apologies if I missed it, but will there be an equivalent to {table=head} in the new system? Sortable tables was always one of the best things about giantitp's way of handling tables.
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    Default Re: Upcoming TABLE Code Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Vedhin View Post
    Apologies if I missed it, but will there be an equivalent to {table=head} in the new system? Sortable tables was always one of the best things about giantitp's way of handling tables.
    I saw in some earlier posts that the sorting of the table will no longer be a feature.
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    Default Re: Upcoming TABLE Code Changes

    I can see pain and suffering in my future. But whatever shall be, shall be. Here's hoping the upgrade is worth it.
    Last edited by Lex-Kat; 2014-03-13 at 10:34 PM.

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    Default Re: Upcoming TABLE Code Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Lex-Kat View Post
    I can see pain and suffering in my future. But whatever shall be, shall be. Here's hoping the upgrade is worth it.
    I wondered if you'd complain. What with Playground Squares and all.
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  21. - Top - End - #111
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    Default Re: Upcoming TABLE Code Changes

    Playground Squares? Ha! I have tables everywhere, including two small schedule tables in post two and two huge ones in post 8 of the Werewolf Central OP.

    I'm just hoping that it'll be a lot easier than it's sounding. If it's anything like Myth-Weavers tables, I'm certain to not be happy. For a little while at least.

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  22. - Top - End - #112
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    Default Re: Upcoming TABLE Code Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Lex-Kat View Post
    Playground Squares? Ha! I have tables everywhere, including two small schedule tables in post two and two huge ones in post 8 of the Werewolf Central OP.

    I'm just hoping that it'll be a lot easier than it's sounding. If it's anything like Myth-Weavers tables, I'm certain to not be happy. For a little while at least.
    I can't say if it will be easy for you or not. But if you have a basic table without any fancy stuff (the most critical being presumably spanning columns), then it should be rather easy.


    Basically you only need to replace your newlines with " [/TD][/TR][TR][TD] " and your " | " with " [/TD][TD] " and start the table with "{TABLE="class:grid"][TR][TD] " and close it with " [/TD][/TR][/TABLE] ". And while that looks maybe rather horrifying for some, Rawhide said that there will be a editor tool that will help you with creating tables. So you shouldn't need to worry about remember that stuff any time soon. You basically should only need it if you don't want to use the editor or maybe if you're trying to do more fancy stuff than the editor provides. But this case is true even with the current table version.

    If your table is a an easy to change one, these changes are rather easy to apply with search & replace and copy/paste stuff a basic text editor should offer. So the best approach to update a table is copy the table code to a text editor, replace those stuff and see if it works (and than try to fix or if you think you can't fix it somehow to use the table editor to and copy the content of the table. Or ask others forumites nicely if they can do for you, especially if they participating in that thread.) But since it doesn't need to work that easy with more complicated tables (e.g. I'm not sure if that approach would work with nested tables. And since there is no option for spanning columns [at least right now] there is just no way to port that directly.)

    It doesn't even matter if you do some linebreaks or other whitespace between cell tags any more, so you can put each table cell in a separate line if you want. Or if you want you could put your entire table in one line. You can use whitespace between table cells/rows however you like. There is only a switch of the delimiter used (+ a small change of available options/renaming some of the carried over options). Others have said that there even should be a TH tag that can be used instead of TD to represent a table header cell. [Which also should be equally valid to be used in any row or only for certain cells in a single row. But I'm not 100% certain on that, so don't get mad at me if it doesn't work.] The ="class:grid" isn't strictly required, but is needed if you want a table grid (like it is the current default. In fact you actually gain the ability to do tables without a grid if you prefer.)



    [As for "Myth-Weavers tables": I found a quick tutorial on their Wiki, and it uses a different code. For example you will not need to specify which table row/column a certain TD tag is or specify how many rows/columns your table will have at the beginning. Though I have to say the option to specify for each cell which row/column it is can enable quite neat stuff, since you aren't forced to have the same order in your post as you want in your table. Though for forum usage it is most likely overkill.]


    Also I just thought that the boarder-less table could allow some fun stuff with signatures, since it could be a workaround to have some left-centered stuff and right centered stuff in the same line [The more I think about this change the more I like it! ]

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  23. - Top - End - #113
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    Default Re: Upcoming TABLE Code Changes

    I'm also looking forward to the new tables. From the examples I saw, I like what can now be done.

    I'm just not looking forward to fixing the old ones.

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    Default Re: Upcoming TABLE Code Changes

    I think a chunk of fixing old ones can be done "manually" via search/replace processes. If you use MS Word, you can use "^p" (without the quotes) to find the newline characters Christian mentioned. So then you're search / replace commands would be:


    ^p --> [/TD][/TR][TR][TD]
    | --> [/TD][TD]
    {table] (or {table=head])--> {table="class:grid"][TR][TD]
    [/table] --> [/TD][/TR][/table]


    I think that would cover most of it, barring lots of column spanning and such.


    When I was playing around with it a few weeks ago, I found the interface to be very similar to creating a table in Word, actually. You press the button, you get promted for some details including how many columns and how many rows. You can add new columns and rows via buttons on the toolbar; you can also add a new row to the end of the table (I believe) by presing tab while in the last cell.

    If you were to opt to go with text-mod input (like what we have here), you have the benefit of being able to cells from a row on multiple lines of input. For example:

    Code:
    {table="class:grid"]
        [TR]
            [TD]Cell One[/TD]
            [TD]Cell Two[/TD]
        [/TR]
        [TR]
            [TD]Row two, Cell one[/TD]
            [TD]Row two, Cell two[/TD]
        [/TR]
        [TR]
            [TD]Row three ...
    and, hey! look! I can now have a
    cell that spans rows
    just by hitting my return key! 
    Woohoo!
    *high fives everybody in the thread*[/TD]
            [TD]*takes a deep breath and calms down*
        [/TR]
    [/table]
    As a programmer, at least, I often find the outline-like structure helpful. Your mileage may vary, of course.
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  25. - Top - End - #115
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    Default Re: Upcoming TABLE Code Changes

    So, switching from a straightforwards and well working format to something that makes me take screencaps of the tables to avoid the hassle?


    Alright, I guess... Gonna go rev up my screencap engine...
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    Default Re: Upcoming TABLE Code Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by The-Mage-King View Post
    So, switching from a straightforwards and well working format to something that makes me take screencaps of the tables to avoid the hassle?


    Alright, I guess... Gonna go rev up my screencap engine...
    As Rawhide said it wasn't possible to keep the old table function/syntax while upgrading the forum.

    Since from what I heard the forum upgrade might have some really good stuff in store (possible return of the search function or return of the polls are two things I have heard), I think it is a good choice anyway.

    Also I really like the new syntax (using whitespace as delimiter for rows is imo just really bad), so I would even like this f it is the only change that will happen.

    Also since a graphical interface for table generation is announced, you should see whether that will make it easier for you.


    @Zherog: In your "demonstration" table you said "I can now have a cell that spans rows just by hitting my return key!". I think you probably mean "multiple lines" (or something saying that you can have linebreaks inside table cells easily - which is also a nice bonus we will get ), but spanning rows/columns is not a thing that is going to happen right now [at least that is what Rawhide has said].t

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    Default Re: Upcoming TABLE Code Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by ChristianSt View Post
    As Rawhide said it wasn't possible to keep the old table function/syntax while upgrading the forum.
    I know, I know. Still doesn't mean I don't want it to stay how it is.


    Also since a graphical interface for table generation is announced, you should see whether that will make it easier for you.
    I do my table formatting in Word. If I can copy/paste from it, that'll make it simpler, but I have my doubts as to if it'll work or not.

    My usual method is "Copy table, copy new malformated table back, replace [Tab-spaces] with |, copy it BACK, slap on the tags.", so if it makes it simpler than that, I guess I can live with it.


    Otherwise, I'm probably gonna go make some .pngs of my tables and link 'em.
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    Default Re: Upcoming TABLE Code Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by The-Mage-King View Post
    My usual method is "Copy table, copy new malformated table back, replace [Tab-spaces] with |, copy it BACK, slap on the tags.", so if it makes it simpler than that, I guess I can live with it.
    I don't know how this graphical editor will work, so I can't say that.


    But what I say you can still use the same approach. As Zherog and I have said, you simple need to replace the kind of delimiters.
    So instead of replacing "\t" (tab) with "|" you need to replace it with "[/TD][TD]" and you need to replace "\n" (newline) with "[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]" and use "{table="class:grid"][TR][TD]" to begin and "[/TD][/TR][/table]" to end your table.
    You can (and imo should) use newlines before you open a new cell/row and indent cells, but you don't need to if you don't want. Obviously you shouldn't replace newlines outside the table code.


    Yes, it is a bit more complicated (and maybe some people will say it is harder to remember), but especially if you do basically some kind of Search&Replace anyway, it shouldn't be hard to replace it with different stuff instead.

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  29. - Top - End - #119
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    Default Re: Upcoming TABLE Code Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by ChristianSt View Post
    @Zherog: In your "demonstration" table you said "I can now have a cell that spans rows just by hitting my return key!". I think you probably mean "multiple lines" (or something saying that you can have linebreaks inside table cells easily - which is also a nice bonus we will get ), but spanning rows/columns is not a thing that is going to happen right now [at least that is what Rawhide has said].t
    Yes, you're correct. Bad wording on my part.
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  30. - Top - End - #120
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    Default Re: Upcoming TABLE Code Changes

    So...do...we have a date for this switch?
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    You've got good reasoning, though the Akastarepti is never the best example.

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