World of Tanks IV: We're on Fire!

[Jimorian]

Are you being intentionally obtuse?

If victory is in doubt, capping is the right thing to do. That has never been contested.

For the last time...We are talking about situations where victory is guaranteed yet someone caps out the game anyway.

For every game where that may actually make a small difference, the attitude it creates causes 3 or 4 other games that would have been easy victories with capping to suddenly be in doubt, and some of those turn into losses. Players are constantly driving off cap when they shouldn't because this stupid meta-game has gotten out of control. That you would accuse somebody who works 100% of EVERY game to win as anti-social, and then quote some B.S. statistic at me like that proves anything is EXACTLY what's wrong with online gaming these days. YOU are the problem here, not me.

[SanguisAevum]

That you would accuse somebody who works 100% of EVERY game to win as anti-social, and then quote some B.S. statistic at me like that proves anything is EXACTLY what's wrong with online gaming these days. YOU are the problem here, not me.

These situations occur far more often than you give credit for. I can guarantee it will happen 2 or 3 times at least every session I play. We roll over the opposition, move on to finish the few remaining tanks in a guaranteed 15 kill victory, and some bright spark decides to cap the game out for no reason, prematurely ending a game that would have earned even more exp for the whole team.

Intentionally sabotaging 14 other players chance at getting MORE exp even occasionally... is the very definition of anti social.

And as for me being the problem.. I beg to differ... unlike you, I contribute significantly to my team's chances of victory. You, on the other hand... probably do not do so very often. As evidenced by your attitude on this particular issue, you lack of understanding of deeper game mechanics, and most of all... your slightly below average "BS stats" (That are not BS... by the way... WN8 has been proven to be an excellent indicator of overall player skill)

Typical denier.


Grif, thanks for the heads up... I think I will finish the Jagdzilla line then come back to the other German TDs.

[Jimorian]

What happens when you try to sneakily TK a popular YouTuber via drowning.

[otakuryoga]

soooo....
6-1 in our favor
3 guys on cap..at 80 points
guess what?

we lost

"stop cap! kill him!"
"don't be a cappin *****"
and they listened and all 6 marched merrily off to their deaths

so can the big anti-capper guy tell me again how you know when capping isn't needed?

[Grif]

soooo....
6-1 in our favor
3 guys on cap..at 80 points
guess what?

we lost

"stop cap! kill him!"
"don't be a cappin *****"
and they listened and all 6 marched merrily off to their deaths

so can the big anti-capper guy tell me again how you know when capping isn't needed?

Sounds like your team was just too incompetent to kill off the enemy. (or the other guy was on a roll) I'd happily gotten off cap with a 6-1 advantage, barring exceptional circumstances like the remaining opposition being TDs and what tanks you have left are all one-shottable.

Then again, it's not a black-and-white thing. There is no absolute rule on whether or not to decide to cap the enemy out.

[AdmiralCheez]

After the third guy got killed, I would have given up and headed back for the cap. It sounds like this guy got top gun while being the sole survivor being hunted down by overwhelming odds. That's the kind of thing that makes legends. Definitely not something I would go up against.

[♠Spade♠]

Wow, have I really not posted in this since 10/18/2011? Anyway, I have finally completed the US tree...again.

Spoiler: First Time

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Spoiler: Second Time

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[KillianHawkeye]

I had a great match last weekend on the new (for Xbox) Abbey map. I was in some light tank and I drove around the side behind the mountains, ended up getting behind enemy lines and taking out all 3 of the enemy team's artillery units and capped their base for the victory. The rest of my team and the enemy team had pretty much wiped each other out. At the end, it was me capping, one other guy on my team and one enemy unit.

The stupid part was when the enemy unit killed me in those couple of seconds after I'd already finished capturing his base, when the match was already over. I negatively repped him for unsportsmanlike behavior.

[Jimorian]

Stuff happening after the game ends is an issue with the PC version as well. It's not so much unsportsmanlike as something Wargaming has needed to fix for a VERY long time. While it hasn't happened lately, I've even been in games where my team has reached 100% cap and a hit has then reset the count before we got the victory. I realize there's always sync issues with online servers, but considering how many other facets of the game are affected by split-second timing, you'd think the game end wouldn't be as sloppy as it is.

[Grif]

Wow, have I really not posted in this since 10/18/2011? Anyway, I have finally completed the US tree...again.

Spoiler: First Time

Show

Spoiler: Second Time

Show

Man, that first screen shot must have been waaaaaaaaay back in patch 6.X, when T30 was still the premier Tier X heavy.

[Gnoman]

Stuff happening after the game ends is an issue with the PC version as well. It's not so much unsportsmanlike as something Wargaming has needed to fix for a VERY long time. While it hasn't happened lately, I've even been in games where my team has reached 100% cap and a hit has then reset the count before we got the victory. I realize there's always sync issues with online servers, but considering how many other facets of the game are affected by split-second timing, you'd think the game end wouldn't be as sloppy as it is.

The delay after reaching 100% is intentional.

[otakuryoga]

yes..you need to hit 100 and then get another tick to get the ! signalling a lock

[darksolitaire]

Man, that first screen shot must have been waaaaaaaaay back in patch 6.X, when T30 was still the premier Tier X heavy.

That's after version 6.7 since it added Chaffee and Jumbo Sherman. I remember that like yesterday. You know, just before the entire game went sour Just kidding.

[♠Spade♠]

Man, that first screen shot must have been waaaaaaaaay back in patch 6.X, when T30 was still the premier Tier X heavy.

It was actually a little less than a week before the swap with the M103 and T110E5. I didn't play the T30 at all, because I wanted my stats to be accurate.

[KillianHawkeye]

The delay after reaching 100% is intentional.

yes..you need to hit 100 and then get another tick to get the ! signalling a lock

I know, but I wasn't at 100%, I was at "Enemy Base captured!" The match was over. The game still ended after the guy killed me.

[darksolitaire]

I know, but I wasn't at 100%, I was at "Enemy Base captured!" The match was over. The game still ended after the guy killed me.

So you reported enemy team member for killing you?

[GloatingSwine]

Stuff happening after the game ends is an issue with the PC version as well. It's not so much unsportsmanlike as something Wargaming has needed to fix for a VERY long time. While it hasn't happened lately, I've even been in games where my team has reached 100% cap and a hit has then reset the count before we got the victory. I realize there's always sync issues with online servers, but considering how many other facets of the game are affected by split-second timing, you'd think the game end wouldn't be as sloppy as it is.

If you've completed cap, you don't get reset even if the tank in the cap circle is killed.

However, any tank being killed after a cap completes extends the delay before the match ends, so if you cap but are all killed before the match ends, you can still lose.

That's an intentional feature of the game.

[SanguisAevum]

soooo....
6-1 in our favor
3 guys on cap..at 80 points
guess what?

we lost

"stop cap! kill him!"
"don't be a cappin *****"
and they listened and all 6 marched merrily off to their deaths

so can the big anti-capper guy tell me again how you know when capping isn't needed?

Do you have a reading comprehension problem? I am NOT anti-cap... I am anti "cap for no reason"

In that situation i would say that yes... Capping was completely not needed and would have asked them not to cap...

If the team then managed to loose a 6v1... They deserved to loose the game anyway.

Working as intended.

[Yana]

Do you have a reading comprehension problem? I am NOT anti-cap... I am anti "cap for no reason"

In that situation i would say that yes... Capping was completely not needed and would have asked them not to cap...

If the team then managed to loose a 6v1... They deserved to loose the game anyway.

Working as intended.

I think you ignored Otaku's question about knowing when capping instead of killing everything is a more valid method of victory. If you could clarify your position on when killing vs. capping is justified, we might be able to end this disagreement before it gets out of hand.

For my part, I think that doing whatever it takes to get my team the victory is what I should be doing, which includes my ability to judge what the optimal solution is. Yes, I can make the mistake of believing that killing everything or sitting on cap alone is justified, but so what? This is still a game, my friends. We don't need to take each other apart over doctrinal differences.

I would rather take the guaranteed 50% bump in credits and xp from a cap victory early on with less damage done so I can get into another game asap rather than hunt down another tank at the potential cost of losing the match. At the very least, it'll drag the match on significantly longer than I'd like. The appeal of killing everything for the xp and credit boost is useful, yes, but isn't victory the most important thing in the end?

[Jonzac]

I've searched WoT forums for the formulas or post from a Dev that shows killing all the enemy gives a XP boost to the entire time. (other than the 50% win bonus) Sure, the guys doing the damage get more XP, but nothing on the rest of the team. So, what's the difference then between you getting xp from killing someone and me getting xp from capping...other than the fact it YOU getting the XP.

Frankly, I like capping out. To me it shows a certain superiority...I'm at your house eating your food...come stop me if you can.

[Grif]

I've searched WoT forums for the formulas or post from a Dev that shows killing all the enemy gives a XP boost to the entire time. (other than the 50% win bonus) Sure, the guys doing the damage get more XP, but nothing on the rest of the team. So, what's the difference then between you getting xp from killing someone and me getting xp from capping...other than the fact it YOU getting the XP.

Frankly, I like capping out. To me it shows a certain superiority...I'm at your house eating your food...come stop me if you can.

Compare the xp gotten by a zero damage, zero spot teammember when you win by capping out, versus when you win by killing all the enemies. There is a significant difference. (Best seen on older Prok encounters, where the capture rate was unusually fast.) However, credits are tied to damage, and thus unaffected by this.

[otakuryoga]

I've searched WoT forums for the formulas or post from a Dev that shows killing all the enemy gives a XP boost to the entire time. (other than the 50% win bonus)

you wont find it...in fact one of the pre-match hints says "there is no bonus to killing everybody..being bloodthirsty is not always better" or something along that line

the point Sanguis keeps using to justify his bloodthirstiness is that base xp for match is off total damage done
--however the boost you will get for letting someone else kill the last 50hp off someone is less than the boost you will get from finishing a cap..since YOU are the one doing the action/earning the xp

"but that tiny boost goes to EVERYONE..this is a TEAM game"
and by capping you are helping your team win the game..and saving people from repair bills/possible death
--note: someone who dies in hunting down last 1 or 2 enemies will earn LESS xp than if they survive by someone capping with 2 enemies alive: survivor bonus IS a thing

Compare the xp gotten by a zero damage, zero spot teammember when you win by capping out, versus when you win by killing all the enemies. There is a significant difference. (Best seen on older Prok encounters, where the capture rate was unusually fast.) However, credits are tied to damage, and thus unaffected by this.

i think you mean old Komarin (the one with island in center and river crossings in NE and SW..that was the turbo cap map)

anyway...
you are comparing apples and oranges
your fast cap scenario involves maybe 3 enemies being dead before cap happens..that = low xp all around
versus all 15 dead

we are talking about the difference between..say..13 dead and last two under 50%
versus all 15 dead
the point difference there is miniscule..and capping gets the capper more points than letting someone else finish off last 2 cripples

[Grif]

i think you mean old Komarin (the one with island in center and river crossings in NE and SW..that was the turbo cap map)

Nope. This was after Komarin, actually. After encounter was introduced, there was a significant period of time where pubs didn't know about the new mode and went down the empty road on the 1-2 line only to be capped out. Didn't help that the cap rate was like the normal rate, instead of the 1/3 speed encounters are supposed to have.

anyway...
you are comparing apples and oranges
your fast cap scenario involves maybe 3 enemies being dead before cap happens..that = low xp all around
versus all 15 dead

we are talking about the difference between..say..13 dead and last two under 50%
versus all 15 dead
the point difference there is miniscule..and capping gets the capper more points than letting someone else finish off last 2 cripples

This is why I think we have been talking past each other. I'll agree that the exp difference is minuscule at best, and I'm sure Sanguis would agree as well. In the situation you described, I don't really care if we cap out, or hunt down the last enemy. The situation Sanguis refers to is when the team is up by 9-3/8-4/7-2, and decides to cap out. If you follow the chain of comments, he's mainly responding to darksolitaire first and foremost and all his subsequent response are based on that.

I admit, If I'm in enemy cap circle within first two minutes, most of the teams intact and no-one comes to decap, then I'll cap out of spite.

This would be a situation where everyone would get less exp.

(EDIT: In addition, I think capping early is generally a bad idea because on most maps, the cap circle is wide open and by capping, you're letting the enemy know indirectly where you are. I tend to clear the possible firing lanes first before actually getting on cap. The one exception to this may be Karelia, as the cap sits right on top of a hill and can't be spotted easily.)

[Jimorian]

Like I said in one of my earlier posts, I cap mostly to put a time limit on the bloodthirst. MOST of the time, they accomplish the last few kills without problem within that time, and when they don't, it's because there are 3 or 4 of us capping instead of just me. I've gotten "Invader" maybe twice in the past couple of months, so the odds of me personally "harming" my team's XP compared to the number of times we've lost a won game because too many people left cap, which is almost daily now, are miniscule. And like I said, if somebody is near to Top Gun, I'll gladly oblige their opportunity.

The issue is that this perception that it's always better to kill has created an attitude that harms more matches than it helps, and both of those outcomes are dwarfed by all the times it doesn't make a difference one way or the other, so making this an issue is rather pointless.

[KillianHawkeye]

So you reported enemy team member for killing you?

I didn't report him, I gave him a mark of negative reputation. It won't really effect him unless a lot of people do it, but it does mean that I probably won't be in the same matches as him anymore.

[Leon]

I don't know how it works for the console but ive seen a fair few of the people who are on my ignore list over time. Typically i cant remember why they are on it once i see them again but they tend to stay since if they are bad enough to ignore once its likely they are a repeat offender in the long run.
I do recall one occasion where this happened and i remarked on it to Elm as he didn't have him ignored and soon after did from what garbage the player was spewing out in chat.

Still seems a silly reaction to what is a legitimate action. Ive killed a Type 59 once after the game had otherwise ended, the Scores at the end were varied. one had it as a kill and the other didn't. Not that it really mattered, we lost with 5 of them in cap an.

[KillianHawkeye]

Still seems a silly reaction to what is a legitimate action.

Well I've only been playing since the full release of the Xbox Edition, but I disagree that the action was in any way legitimate. The guy lost, he didn't have to be a douchebag about it.

It's a simple enough concept: I don't want to play with somebody who acts like that.

[SanguisAevum]

Well I've only been playing since the full release of the Xbox Edition, but I disagree that the action was in any way legitimate. The guy lost, he didn't have to be a douchebag about it.

It's a simple enough concept: I don't want to play with somebody who acts like that.

What makes him a douche bag?

If he can continue to fire at you, he can continue to gain exp and credits.

I would have done the same, as would, i suspect, the entirity of the player base other than you... For some reason.

Just... Wow!

[Celesyne]

Well I've only been playing since the full release of the Xbox Edition, but I disagree that the action was in any way legitimate. The guy lost, he didn't have to be a douchebag about it.

It's a simple enough concept: I don't want to play with somebody who acts like that.

The delay is there intentionally, as has been stated. And the guy that continued shooting and killed you in the roughly... 2-ish seconds after you got the cap wasn't doing it to be a douchebag. He still gets the damage done and pens added to his stats, and thus increasing his credit income and exp for the match. It isn't asshattery, its logical playing. If doing action A nets me more money and xp even if I've already lost, then I'm going to do action A to try and maximize my return on play time.

[KillianHawkeye]

It is douchebaggery because it pissed on my victory, plain and simple. If you are defeated, just accept it and move on. Don't try to kill the guy that beat you. It's just a game, don't be a jerk about it.

EDIT: Just because you CAN do a thing doesn't mean you SHOULD do it.