Results 151 to 163 of 163
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2014-03-20, 11:25 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
- Location
- San Francisco
- Gender
Re: How will Durkon overcome the vampire?
Just to expand on this. Malack was an evil intellectual. He drew pleasure from good conversation and was a religious being who enjoyed the companionship of another faithful cleric. I doubt he would ever have harmed Durkon had they not been in direct conflict, and he tried very hard even to avoid that.
But, like Tarquin, in fact even worse than Tarquin, Malack placed no value on sentient life in the abstract. If a person was not valuable to Malack on a personal level, that person was beneath notice or a potential sacrifice to Nergal.
The HPoH may be even more single-minded. He's in direct contact with his god and appears to be very faithful, so he has not demonstrated any goals or personal desires distinct from his service to his deity. He may, in the future, show some personality quirks that conflict with his overarching goals, though, and it would be quite interesting if he takes a genuine liking to one or more of the party members.
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2014-03-20, 01:31 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2011
Re: How will Durkon overcome the vampire?
that may be true. however, durkon not being used enough still supports my position. HPoH and durkon are separate characters. so for durkon to be used more, it is durkon, not HPoH, who has to get the screentime. so either way, we end up with durkon getting a lot of meaningful interaction with someone, even if it is just HPoH.
78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.
Where did you start yours?
The PCs were already a special forces type unit in a kingdom's military, so the campaign started in the general's office.
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2014-03-21, 11:04 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
- Location
- Annapolis, Maryland
- Gender
Re: How will Durkon overcome the vampire?
Here is the scene in the episode of Buffy, "Becoming," in which we see through flashbacks how Angel met Darla and the circumstances leading up to Angel's vamping.
Angel: Oh... But you're a pretty thing. Where are you from?
Darla: (smiles) Around. Everywhere.
Angel: I never been anywhere myself. Always wanted to see the world,
but...
Darla: I could show you. (smiles)
Angel: Could you, then?
Darla: Things you've never seen, never even heard of.
Angel: Sounds exciting.
Darla: It is. And frightening.
Angel: I'm not afraid. Show me. Show me your world.
Darla: (closes her eyes) Close your eyes.
Darla said, "I could show you [the world.] But it might be a little frightening." Angel said that he was not afraid. And that was it. Nowhere in there is there anything that could possibly lead a reasonable person to conclude that they would incubate a demon in their body that would wreak as much misery and harm upon the world as possible. Durkon at least knew when he was battling Malack that the other person in the situation was a vampire, and a vampire eager to make more offspring. That's way, way, WAAAAY more information than Angel had when he met Darla in that alley.
You know, when I was reading this script for the exact quote, I got hit with a parallel between Durkon and Angel. Durkon's last thought before being made into a vampire was, "Finally, I get to go home." Angel's last thought before being made into a vampire was, "Finally, I get to leave home."
No it didn't.
Barnabas Collins goes back to the 60s and depicts vampires as poetic tragic heroes rather than as the traditional embodiment of evil. Anne Rice carried on that tradition in the 70s, and Chelsea Quinn Yarbro did the same, and the tradition was well underway by then to merge convergence of traditional Gothic ideas with modern transgressive sexualities. The vampire as the Byronic romantic hero instead of the embodiment of pure evil goes back at least 50 years before Buffy.
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2014-03-21, 11:10 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2014
- Location
- The Great Frozen North
- Gender
Re: How will Durkon overcome the vampire?
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2014-03-21, 11:34 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
- Location
- Annapolis, Maryland
- Gender
Re: How will Durkon overcome the vampire?
That makes even less sense. Here's a quote from Dracula:
"Before we do anything, let me tell you this; it is out of the lore and
experience of the ancients and of all those who have studied the powers
of the Un-Dead. When they become such, there comes with the change the
curse of immortality; they cannot die, but must go on age after age
adding new victims and multiplying the evils of the world; for all that
die from the preying of the Un-Dead becomes themselves Un-Dead, and prey on their kind. And so the circle goes on ever widening, like as the
ripples from a stone thrown in the water. Friend Arthur, if you had met
that kiss which you know of before poor Lucy die; or again, last night
when you open your arms to her, you would in time, when you had died,
have become _nosferatu_, as they call it in Eastern Europe, and would
all time make more of those Un-Deads that so have fill us with horror.
The career of this so unhappy dear lady is but just begun. Those
children whose blood she suck are not as yet so much the worse; but if
she live on, Un-Dead, more and more they lose their blood and by her
power over them they come to her; and so she draw their blood with that
so wicked mouth. But if she die in truth, then all cease; the tiny
wounds of the throats disappear, and they go back to their plays
unknowing ever of what has been. But of the most blessed of all, when
this now Un-Dead be made to rest as true dead, then the soul of the poor
lady whom we love shall again be free. Instead of working wickedness by
night and growing more debased in the assimilating of it by day, she
shall take her place with the other Angels. So that, my friend, it will
be a blessed hand for her that shall strike the blow that sets her free.
To this I am willing; but is there none amongst us who has a better
right? Will it be no joy to think of hereafter in the silence of the
night when sleep is not: 'It was my hand that sent her to the stars; it
was the hand of him that loved her best; the hand that of all she would
herself have chosen, had it been to her to choose?' Tell me if there be
such a one amongst us?"
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2014-03-21, 03:05 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
Re: How will Durkon overcome the vampire?
As stated before, Malack tried to let Durkon live, allowed Belkar to live, didn't give away entire OOTS party hiding behind an illusion. *Pure* evil may not have done any of that. *Pure* as in 100% evil, evil all the time, every action evil.
We don't yet even know exactly what Malack's long term plan was in order to judge how evil it was. Killing action by itself is not "pure evil', otherwise Elan pressing self destruct button on first dungeon = pure evil. Eg Goblins comics has a Psi-Max who thinks life is suffering and love=destroying them. Malack might think he is helping people because afterlife is better world, he might kill criminals, etc. Just as Elan "stupid" reduces the "evil' of destroying a dungeon of perhaps thousands of intelligent beings, Malack "crazy"/etc might reduce the evil of the acts.
I take pure evil as meaning enjoys causing harm to others all the time. Malack at least sometimes did not. Durkon's vampire might be pure evil, we don't know him well yet.
If he is pure evil but obsessed with self-preservation ("GIVE ME MY STAFF") then good Durkon might find common ground if Hel's plan puts him personally at risk. If he is not pure evil then Durkon might find other common ground. (Sometimes trope is evil and good "working together" while the both try to betray/outsmart each other)Last edited by multilis; 2014-03-21 at 03:24 PM.
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2014-03-21, 03:52 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2008
Re: How will Durkon overcome the vampire?
If that's your definition of pure evil you're going to have a tough time proving that anything has ever been pure evil.
Manifestations of pure evil - IE the Dark One in The Wheel of Time - don't even fit that definition.
We don't yet even know exactly what Malack's long term plan was in order to judge how evil it was. Killing action by itself is not "pure evil', otherwise Elan pressing self destruct button on first dungeon = pure evil. Eg Goblins comics has a Psi-Max who thinks life is suffering and love=destroying them. Malack might think he is helping people because afterlife is better world, he might kill criminals, etc. Just as Elan "stupid" reduces the "evil' of destroying a dungeon of perhaps thousands of intelligent beings, Malack "crazy"/etc might reduce the evil of the acts.
It doesn't matter what Malack himself thinks of that plan. It's still evil.
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2014-03-21, 05:00 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2013
Re: How will Durkon overcome the vampire?
Huh. It's been a really long while, so I'd forgotten those details. I figured that, since there's a whole mutual-blood drinking ritual involved, it was voluntary. It's easy to forget that, while the audience knows that vampires are a thing in Buffy the Vampire Slayer, the characters themselves might now.
Still, the point stands that Angel was tricked, and made a bad, uninformed, foolish decision. Durkon was dragged kicking and screaming into vampirism, as it were. The situations are definitely more similar than I'd originally thought, so there may well be some parallels.
Although things are also different on account of Durkon living in a setting where vampires are definitely known to exist and be evil bloodsucking fiends and Durkon's a high-level, respectable cleric capable of magically helping to rebuild once this is all over.
So, not only will he have less to "atone" for, but also he'll have a more successful job of it. Angel had to try to manipulate an obscure prophecy to become human again; if Durkon's soul somehow gains control of his vampire body, worst case scenario for becoming a healthy dwarf again is to train a cleric to kill and resurrect him.I guess sometimes it's more interesting to accept a mistake and go with it.
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2014-04-07, 12:38 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2006
- Location
- Raleigh NC
- Gender
Re: How will Durkon overcome the vampire?
Thread's not quite dead yet .
Okay, based on 948, I think we have our answer.
Fact: The vampire cannot simply take Durkon's memories. Durkon has to surrender them.
Fact: Durkon has no choice but to surrender information -- the vampire is able to compel him.
Speculation: This may be why Durkula just stood there after Malack was destroyed -- the vampire needed information to know how to interact with the LG, and Durkon was fighting him every step of the way.
Hypothesis: If that delay was due to Durkon's struggle, the vampire is lying to Durkon now, "speed of thought" or not.
Useful scientific fact, which I'm sure the Giant wasn't considering: The speed of thought is measurable , "faster than a bird but slower than sound."
Of course, the Giant is telling a story, not a science lesson. If he should choose to step in and clarify, I'd appreciate it.But I'm going to assume that "speed of thought" is instantaneous in OOTSworld even if it's not in the real world.
At any rate, there is one more fact:
While Durkon must answer truthfully, he has the ability to choose how MUCH information he reveals, either very little or very much.
Speculation: The vampire can force Durkon to answer any question truthfully, but he is not able to determine whether the memory-picture he receives in response is sufficient. I further speculate this is similar to being imprisoned in a permanent zone of truth.
Thus, I hypothesize:
Durkon will, at the appropriate time, feed the vampire a true-but-misleading image, and so the vampire will give the wrong answer. Done at just the right time and place, this will blow its cover.
Respectfully,
Brian P.Last edited by pendell; 2014-04-07 at 12:38 PM.
"Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth. Sooner or later, that debt is paid."
-Valery Legasov in Chernobyl
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2014-04-07, 01:25 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2012
- Gender
Re: How will Durkon overcome the vampire?
I speculate that Durkon is hoping his memories of his family, and the emotions derived from them, will prove infectious, that the vampire will grow to care for Dwarfdom at least a shade. Even the slightest hesitation at the critical moment could change the fate of the world.
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2014-04-07, 01:53 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2009
Re: How will Durkon overcome the vampire?
On that note, has Durkon ever sworn in the comic before?
Belkar seems to be looking cynically at the HPoH in the last panel, so Durkon may be gettting through to one of the OOTS.
Albeit the least trusted one, who already had a reasonable grasp of what was happening anyway, but hey, it's a start!
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2014-04-07, 01:55 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2010
- Location
- Lake Wobegon
- Gender
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2015-11-09, 04:13 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2015
Re: How will Durkon overcome the vampire?
I do very much like this idea!
My bet is on Belkar throwing the amulet around HPoHs Neck - it will protect Durkon from the Vampires Evil and give him some options.
(Assuming the Death and Destruction Prophecy is already fulfilled - which some people argue that it has)
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