Feat Point System for Pathfinder

[Frozen_Feet]

Here's a thought for simplifying things a bit:

All feats that grant flat bonus to skill checks cost points equal to the bonus they grant, multiplied by number of skills they apply to. For example: Acrobatic gives +2 to Jump and tumble, so it costs 4 points. If the bonus is conditional, they instead cost 0.75 times as many points per skill.

All feats that grant flat bonus to attack rolls, combat maneuvers or saves cost 1.5 times as many points as the bonus they grant. For example, Weapon Focus gives +1 to attack rolls, so it'd cost 1 point. Iron Will gives +2 bonus to Will Saves, so it'd cost 3 points.

All feats that grant flat bonus to all checks governed by an ability costs twice as many points as the bonus they give. For example, a feat that'd grant +1 to all Charisma checks would cost 2 points. If the bonus to ability checks is conditional, the multiplier is reduced to 1.5. For example, Endurance gives +4 to various Con checks, so it'd cost 6 points.

[Tanuki Tales]

Here's a thought for simplifying things a bit:

All feats that grant flat bonus to skill checks cost points equal to the bonus they grant, multiplied by number of skills they apply to. For example: Acrobatic gives +2 to Jump and tumble, so it costs 4 points. If the bonus is conditional, they instead cost 0.75 times as many points per skill.

All feats that grant flat bonus to attack rolls, combat maneuvers or saves cost 1.5 times as many points as the bonus they grant. For example, Weapon Focus gives +1 to attack rolls, so it'd cost 1 point. Iron Will gives +2 bonus to Will Saves, so it'd cost 3 points.

All feats that grant flat bonus to all checks governed by an ability costs twice as many points as the bonus they give. For example, a feat that'd grant +1 to all Charisma checks would cost 2 points. If the bonus to ability checks is conditional, the multiplier is reduced to 1.5. For example, Endurance gives +4 to various Con checks, so it'd cost 6 points.

I feel like that undercosts some things and overcosts others. For example, Endurance is not a Tier 4 feat; it's complete and utter crap.

I agree with RoC's approach to simply tiering all the feats first and then coming up with costs for the feats inside of each of their tiers.

[JHShadon]

The Skinwalker is a race, not a class and can be found on the PFSRD in the "More Races" section.

Also you forgot the feat:Arcane Strike

[Tanuki Tales]

The Skinwalker is a race, not a class and can be found on the PFSRD in the "More Races" section.

Thank you kindly.

Also you forgot the feat:Arcane Strike

No, I didn't. We're starting with "General Feats" first, while Arcane Strike is a "Combat Feat".


Edit:

With my new knowledge of Skinwalkers, I feel that Extra Feature is a tier 5 feat (it's no so terrible as to be tier 6, though it is god awful), but Fast Change is still tier 4.

[Tanuki Tales]

Here are the Gs and Hs.


Tier 6

• Groundling - Niche.
• Galley Slave - Niche.
• Hymn Singer - Niche.
• Imperial Conscript - Niche
• Jumper - Most PCs can't take this and it wasn't that great anyways.

Tier 5

• Glorious Heat - This feat is terrible since the unofficial errata. If you don't use that though, this is tier 1.
• Gnome Trickster - Meh feat.
• Golden Legion's Stayed Blade - This should be part of the rules.
• Greater Channel Smite - I only see Paladin's taking this.
• Greater Mercy - 1d6? Seriously?
• Great Fortitude - Bad feat is bad.
• Gunslinger - The description of this feat is honestly confusing.
• Gunsmithing - This should be a part of the rules.
• Gliding Steps - Monks.
• Harmonic Sage - Niche feat and pretty meh.
• Harmonic Spell - This should be part of the rules.
• Harrowed - This feat is meh and requires more input than it gives in output.
• Helpless Prisoner - This should be a part of the rules.
• Heroic Defiance - Can only be used once per day and the prerequisites are just terrible.
• Heroic Recovery - See above.
• Imperial Squire - Niche, but not worthless.
• Improved Back to Back - Teamwork feats are just bad.
• Improved Fiendish Darkness - Meh feat.
• Improved Stalwart - Gained too late, in too little an amount with bad prerequisites to boot.
• Inner Light - Niche.
• Intimidating Gaze - This should be usable more often.
• Invoke Primal Instinct - Worst use of a Wild Shape use, ever.
• Ironguts - Niche.
• Ironhide - +1 Natural Armor? Whoopie-doo.
• Iron Will - Meh feat is meh.
• Island Blood - See above.

Tier 4

• Greater Blighted Critical - The major spellblights are neat, but its still random and still requires a critical hit.
• Greater Elemental Focus - Meh.
• Improved Channel - Ok, just not amazing.
• Improved Counterspell - Opens options, but not optimal.
• Improved Day Job - I...am not familiar with these rules.
• Improved Great Fortitude - Meh.
• Improved Iron Will - See above.
• Improved Lightning Reflexes - See above.
• Improved Stonecunning - Alright, just not great.
• Intimidating Bane - A +2 bonus isn't that great, but group demoralizing is nice.
• Jackal Heritage - Not a great feat, but it's ok.

Tier 3

• Godless Healing - I see no reason anyone who's not a Cleric wouldn't take this feat.
• Go Unnoticed - Decent feat.
• Grant Initiative - Decent feat.
• Greater Eldritch Heritage - Off the top of my head I can't think of any bloodline powers that would make this tier 2.
• Greater Spell Focus - Spells are boss, so I wonder if this should be tier 2.
• Greater Spell Penetration - See above.
• Greater Wild Empathy - Decent feat.
• Green Guardian - This can help some particularly nasty druid spells.
• Guided Hand - One step closer to being SAD.
• Hellcast Stealth - Decent feat.
• Hero's Fortune - Hero points are great.
• Imperial Knight - Nowhere near as good as Leadership, as it should be.
• Implant Bomb - Decent feat.
• Improved Eldritch Heritage - See the Greater version of this feat.
• Improved Familiar - Decent feat.
• Improved Learn Ranger Trap - Seems decent.
• Improved Monster Lore - Decent feat.
• Improved Share Spells - I'm sure there's a way to abuse this, but the 5 foot limitation stops this from being tier 2 to me.
• Insightful Gaze - Decent feat.
• Instant Judgement - Decent feat.
• Jinx Alchemy - Halfling Jinx...I think you might be my new favorite racial trait.
• Judgement Surge - Decent feat.

Tier 2

• Greater Spell Specialization - Wizards do not need to be stepping on the toes of Sorcerers.
• Improved Fiendish Sorcery - Casters don't need bumps like this.

Tier 1

• Inspirational Commander - No. Just...no.

Edit:

Is and Js added.

[Kamai]

Catching up on feats:
Cosmopolitan: I could see what you're getting at, but I'm having trouble with a skill that can hand a bonus to UMD as well as other stuff as a T5.
Contingent Channeling: I think you forgot to double check prerequisites. The cleric that can use this feat gives up everything related to a second domain, and is locked into the Healing Domain as his only domain. It comes with some nice condition healing on it's channels, but the archetype otherwise weakens the cleric, probably moving this feat to T4 due to prerequisites.
Combat Casting: On your scale, this is probably T2. Be really careful how having this feat expensive affects the Magus.
Center of Power: This is not a T1 feat. This feat gives reasonable bonuses with respect to the Kingdom building rules that Paizo has put forth (and used in a major adventure path). This comes out at most a +3 or +4 to several rolls involved in the kingdom, and this feat does nothing if the group hasn't already agreed to have kingdom building as part of the game. This is T3 at best.
Cooperative Crafting: You have 2 ways of getting an item creation feat on someone. First, you have to have an actual caster level (I don't think a SLA caster level applies here). Otherwise, you need 5 ranks in a craft + Master Craftsman. This means that your crafting ally has at least 9HD. On top of it, if the ally isn't a caster, this only works on craft Wondrous item. Honestly, if this is a T1 feat, then for the bonuses that it gives, Skill Focus (Spellcraft) is at least a T3 feat, giving the crafter a bigger bonus to crafting checks without all of the hoops.

Dispelling Critical: Dispel Magic is on the Magus list, and they could definitely run the 18-20 weapons to make this feat worthwhile. These sort of feats might need to be reevaluated in the context of the Magus.
Destructive Dispel: This walks so close to your definition of T1, it isn't funny. This is save and suck, not save or suck.
Detect Expertise: Arcane Sight does most of this without a save or a feat, and without the time delay. This is only T3 at best, and only because detect magic is allowed for this feat.
Divination Guide: I don't see how this is a feat that's harmful to game balance. An always on +2 to saves (Iron Will) is something you've already marked as T5. If you're willing to accept that +1 on all saves is about equal to +2 on one save, it's now a sometimes on Iron will. This is not a T2 feat in the least. This should be no more than T4, which is where I think a general +1 to all saving throws would be placed.

Eschew Materials: I think it's at least T5 in general, because it takes out a weakness of casters (destruction of spell component pouches). Again, not many DMs keep this in mind, but...
Elemental Channel: While Elementals can come pretty commonly from the Summon Monster X, and SNA X, this seems like otherwise a really niche feat to be T3. The damage wasn't anything to write home about when you channel against Undead, and though it may stick a little better against outsiders, it's still to 1 type of elemental outsiders and Will half.
Extra Ranger Trap: Ranger Traps are terrible outside of one semi-broken option, and they already replace Ranger Spellcasting. This is T4 at best.
Energy Attunement: You do realize that this makes Polymorph a mini-shapechange? It doesn't get the most powerful options, but at that level, it's scary, and it also lets you change around any of the shape spells. This might be T1.
Extra Item Slot: This feat does nothing for standard PCs that don't do a lot of shapeshifting. I guess this is the sort of feat that can do interesting things on an Eidolon or a Animal Companion, but I'm not sure if it makes it T2.
Extra Summons: This is based off the Summoner Class feature, and is normally unavailable when the Eidolon is present. It's a strong T3 feat, but not having the Eidolon out is normally a pretty nasty trade.

I think you need to take another look at the Dimensional feats with respect to the Bard and Magus (both secondary melee that can cast Dimension Door). On top of this, having a low cost for these feats may echo through to monsters that Dimension Door in a pretty nasty way. I can't think of monsters that have these feats off hand, but they tend towards T4 and lower feats already, so adding those in for cheap could be scary.

So that's my pass through the Cs, Ds, and Es. I want to get through the rest later today.

[Tanuki Tales]

Catching up on feats:

Glad to have you back.

Cosmopolitan: I could see what you're getting at, but I'm having trouble with a skill that can hand a bonus to UMD as well as other stuff as a T5.

While I would normally agree, you have to remember that it doesn't give bonuses, it just makes two skills class skills. The classes that get the most out of UMD already have them on their class list and I'm not going to punish mundanes further than necessary (who'd be the ones to most benefit from this feat).

Contingent Channeling: I think you forgot to double check prerequisites. The cleric that can use this feat gives up everything related to a second domain, and is locked into the Healing Domain as his only domain. It comes with some nice condition healing on it's channels, but the archetype otherwise weakens the cleric, probably moving this feat to T4 due to prerequisites.

The archetype weakens the cleric, not the feat. So for a cleric in that archetype, this is the equivalent of a solid class feature.

Combat Casting: On your scale, this is probably T2. Be really careful how having this feat expensive affects the Magus.

The feat is listed as tier 2. I'm not super-knowledgable on the Magus, so does it really need Combat Casting to function?

Center of Power: This is not a T1 feat. This feat gives reasonable bonuses with respect to the Kingdom building rules that Paizo has put forth (and used in a major adventure path). This comes out at most a +3 or +4 to several rolls involved in the kingdom, and this feat does nothing if the group hasn't already agreed to have kingdom building as part of the game. This is T3 at best.

This entire tier system is working with the conventional game paradigm. So, when introducing this feat and the subsystem it represents into a game where it had not been makes it the hallmark of a tier 1. It has literally shattered the campaign into an entirely separate form.

Cooperative Crafting: You have 2 ways of getting an item creation feat on someone. First, you have to have an actual caster level (I don't think a SLA caster level applies here). Otherwise, you need 5 ranks in a craft + Master Craftsman. This means that your crafting ally has at least 9HD. On top of it, if the ally isn't a caster, this only works on craft Wondrous item. Honestly, if this is a T1 feat, then for the bonuses that it gives, Skill Focus (Spellcraft) is at least a T3 feat, giving the crafter a bigger bonus to crafting checks without all of the hoops.

You're forgetting the possibility of two PC casters getting into this together. The biggest thing about this feat isn't the skill bonus, it's allowing two differently built characters to churn out a larger variety of magic items at twice the pace.

Dispelling Critical: Dispel Magic is on the Magus list, and they could definitely run the 18-20 weapons to make this feat worthwhile. These sort of feats might need to be reevaluated in the context of the Magus.

I didn't know that was on the Magus' spell list, to be honest. But since the Magus is something of a Tier 3/Tier 4 class, do you really think it'd come up often enough to warrant being a Tier 4 or higher feat?

Destructive Dispel: This walks so close to your definition of T1, it isn't funny. This is save and suck, not save or suck.

But does it break the game?

Detect Expertise: Arcane Sight does most of this without a save or a feat, and without the time delay. This is only T3 at best, and only because detect magic is allowed for this feat.

Actually, no Arcane Sight doesn't. Neither does it's greater version. This feat literally lets you know what class features they selected.

Divination Guide: I don't see how this is a feat that's harmful to game balance. An always on +2 to saves (Iron Will) is something you've already marked as T5. If you're willing to accept that +1 on all saves is about equal to +2 on one save, it's now a sometimes on Iron will. This is not a T2 feat in the least. This should be no more than T4, which is where I think a general +1 to all saving throws would be placed.

I ranked it because of the fact that it improves two already too good spells, but I see your point. Hm...

Eschew Materials: I think it's at least T5 in general, because it takes out a weakness of casters (destruction of spell component pouches). Again, not many DMs keep this in mind, but...

Destruction of the spell component pouch is another one of those things that either never happens or it happens and your guys go with Blood Money instead. I just don't see this feat ever having any real importance.

Elemental Channel: While Elementals can come pretty commonly from the Summon Monster X, and SNA X, this seems like otherwise a really niche feat to be T3. The damage wasn't anything to write home about when you channel against Undead, and though it may stick a little better against outsiders, it's still to 1 type of elemental outsiders and Will half.

I was looking at it from the angle of Planar Binding and minionmancy in combat. It's nice to be able to only heal your minions in an AOE.

Extra Ranger Trap: Ranger Traps are terrible outside of one semi-broken option, and they already replace Ranger Spellcasting. This is T4 at best.

Like I said, I don't know the character option.

Energy Attunement: You do realize that this makes Polymorph a mini-shapechange? It doesn't get the most powerful options, but at that level, it's scary, and it also lets you change around any of the shape spells. This might be T1.

Which is why I made it tier 2. Does it break the game though or do those spells break the game? Something to ruminate over.

Extra Item Slot: This feat does nothing for standard PCs that don't do a lot of shapeshifting. I guess this is the sort of feat that can do interesting things on an Eidolon or a Animal Companion, but I'm not sure if it makes it T2.

You can put it on a Familiar, it's a familiar feat. I just see bad things coming from it, like word activated custom items.

Extra Summons: This is based off the Summoner Class feature, and is normally unavailable when the Eidolon is present. It's a strong T3 feat, but not having the Eidolon out is normally a pretty nasty trade.

I've honestly never been convinced that the Eidolon is more useful than the SM line. Is there anything terribly wrong with this being a low tier 2 instead of a high tier 3?

I think you need to take another look at the Dimensional feats with respect to the Bard and Magus (both secondary melee that can cast Dimension Door). On top of this, having a low cost for these feats may echo through to monsters that Dimension Door in a pretty nasty way. I can't think of monsters that have these feats off hand, but they tend towards T4 and lower feats already, so adding those in for cheap could be scary.

Bard is kind of on the doorway of tier 3/tier 4 since the nerfs to Bardic Music and I know Magus needs a little bit more love. Most of the monsters I know of who could use these feats to their potential could use the boost to be honest, but I admit it's something that requires more research.

So that's my pass through the Cs, Ds, and Es. I want to get through the rest later today.

Take your time, grateful as always.

[Kamai]

Glad to have you back.
The archetype weakens the cleric, not the feat. So for a cleric in that archetype, this is the equivalent of a solid class feature.

I noticed that you docked feats for prereqs before, and this seemed like it might be another case, but I see where you're coming from, too.

The feat is listed as tier 2. I'm not super-knowledgable on the Magus, so does it really need Combat Casting to function?

Ok, so disregard what I'm saying. I guess I was remembering a beta version of the Magus where you had to do Concentration checks just to use a primary feature (Spell Combat).

This entire tier system is working with the conventional game paradigm. So, when introducing this feat and the subsystem it represents into a game where it had not been makes it the hallmark of a tier 1. It has literally shattered the campaign into an entirely separate form.

I'm willing to argue that the feat does nothing without the extra rules to interact with. This is along the lines of allowing Martial Study into a game that didn't already have ToB more than reworking a game. I notice that hero point feats don't get the same sort of rating although adding the system in can have the same sort of impact on a "core only" game.

You're forgetting the possibility of two PC casters getting into this together. The biggest thing about this feat isn't the skill bonus, it's allowing two differently built characters to churn out a larger variety of magic items at twice the pace.

They have to have the same item creation feats. If they aren't working together, then they're making the same amount on 2 separate projects instead. 1000 gp/day is still 1000 gp/day.

I didn't know that was on the Magus' spell list, to be honest. But since the Magus is something of a Tier 3/Tier 4 class, do you really think it'd come up often enough to warrant being a Tier 4 or higher feat?

Tough call. I can see the builds that would really like it, and it is a highly restricted quicken.

But does it break the game?

As compared to other things that you're putting in T1? More so, imo. With Dispel Magic being one of the more common spells flying around, to get a guaranteed condition on stripping a single buff is pretty nasty.

Actually, no Arcane Sight doesn't. Neither does it's greater version. This feat literally lets you know what class features they selected.

Ok, I did misread this feat (to think it was even more powerful than it originally showed). Other than witch hexes, it doesn't really tell you all that interesting of information. You know what some of the spell-like powers are, and what a small portion of the spell list is. 3 round concentration means that anyone aware of the existence of this feat can just briskly walk away, in the same way that Detect Magic doesn't really beat Invisibility.

I was looking at it from the angle of Planar Binding and minionmancy in combat. It's nice to be able to only heal your minions in an AOE.

It locks you to one specific elemental outsider, and healing is rarely worth the standard for your real allies or your undead allies. A positive channel is still going to heal your minionmancy allies, making this feat really niche for that purpose.

Which is why I made it tier 2. Does it break the game though or do those spells break the game? Something to ruminate over.

Polymorph already got ripped a new one by the move to Pathfinder. A lot of the neat early tricks (like Alter self for a fly speed or absurd natural armor) are gone. Remember that indirectly through these changes, the Druid got smacked around. The feat now offers a lot of versatility out of any single casting of X Shape or Form of the X spells, as well as polymorph. This was something that a 3.5 caster couldn't readily do outside of Shapechange.

You can put it on a Familiar, it's a familiar feat. I just see bad things coming from it, like word activated custom items.

So if I were going to abuse word-activated custom items, I'd see about using normal item slots first. If that didn't work, I'd remember that cash is a lot less valuable than feats and just make it a slotless item anyways. Is there any abuse you have in mind that aren't custom items, because I don't think feats should be rated around the existence of a Ring of True Strike.

[Tanuki Tales]

I'm willing to argue that the feat does nothing without the extra rules to interact with. This is along the lines of allowing Martial Study into a game that didn't already have ToB more than reworking a game. I notice that hero point feats don't get the same sort of rating although adding the system in can have the same sort of impact on a "core only" game.

I don't have the book, are you telling me that a feat that has Leadership as a prerequisite and improves upon what Leadership does is comparable to Martial Initiating?

They have to have the same item creation feats. If they aren't working together, then they're making the same amount on 2 separate projects instead. 1000 gp/day is still 1000 gp/day.

Reading it over again, the bolded isn't true. The feat says that you need to possess the relevant Craft skill or item creation feat. And it actually doesn't specify how you assist them or that it prevents you from working on your own magic items as well. The more I read this feat, the less I like it.

Tough call. I can see the builds that would really like it, and it is a highly restricted quicken.

Let's keep it where it is then until research shows otherwise.

As compared to other things that you're putting in T1? More so, imo. With Dispel Magic being one of the more common spells flying around, to get a guaranteed condition on stripping a single buff is pretty nasty.

It does begin trivializing encounters even more so. Hm...I see your point.

Ok, I did misread this feat (to think it was even more powerful than it originally showed). Other than witch hexes, it doesn't really tell you all that interesting of information. You know what some of the spell-like powers are, and what a small portion of the spell list is. 3 round concentration means that anyone aware of the existence of this feat can just briskly walk away, in the same way that Detect Magic doesn't really beat Invisibility.

Fair enough.

It locks you to one specific elemental outsider, and healing is rarely worth the standard for your real allies or your undead allies. A positive channel is still going to heal your minionmancy allies, making this feat really niche for that purpose.

It locks you into one elemental subtype for outsiders. And the issue with just relying on the positive is that it also heals your enemies without other feats.

Polymorph already got ripped a new one by the move to Pathfinder. A lot of the neat early tricks (like Alter self for a fly speed or absurd natural armor) are gone. Remember that indirectly through these changes, the Druid got smacked around. The feat now offers a lot of versatility out of any single casting of X Shape or Form of the X spells, as well as polymorph. This was something that a 3.5 caster couldn't readily do outside of Shapechange.

Fair enough.

So if I were going to abuse word-activated custom items, I'd see about using normal item slots first. If that didn't work, I'd remember that cash is a lot less valuable than feats and just make it a slotless item anyways. Is there any abuse you have in mind that aren't custom items, because I don't think feats should be rated around the existence of a Ring of True Strike.

I'll lower it to tier 3, but I definitely want to keep an eye on it.

[Kamai]

I don't have the book, are you telling me that a feat that has Leadership as a prerequisite and improves upon what Leadership does is comparable to Martial Initiating?

In terms of throwing a new subsystem in out of nowhere like you were contending? Yes. In actual power? This feat is about the same as a feat that says "Your cohort automatically succeeds on any Aid another checks to assist you". It's something that comes off a powerful feat, does something kind of helpful, but you do need to decently invest in it (by having a kingdom building worth doubling). I again emphasise that the feat is balanced in the subsystem that it references, and worthless if the subsystem doesn't exist.

Here, again, like with Divination Guide, you're falling into the trap that since it improves a really powerful option, it must also be a really powerful feat.

Reading it over again, the bolded isn't true. The feat says that you need to possess the relevant Craft skill or item creation feat. And it actually doesn't specify how you assist them or that it prevents you from working on your own magic items as well. The more I read this feat, the less I like it.

Ok, yeah, that's a terribly worded feat that's so badly worded because it tries to do too many things at once. However, to be able to get a bonus in crafting, the bonus has to be there throughout the check (I hope I'm not remembering a house rule, here). I would at least rule that the aider would have to be there the whole crafting time, which I'll admit wouldn't do enough to stop double time crafting.

Onwards to some Fs and Gs:
Fast Crawl: I'm hesitant to call this T6 because it's existence weakens even further PC trip lockdown (since someone with this feat could 5ft step then get up in many cases safely.
Familiar Spell: It's a cheaper quicken that asks you to use no save spells, or on the other side, it's an incredibly smart contingency. I could see packing a Familiar Spell with Invisibility or Dimension Door without having a second thought. I could see this being T2.
Fast Empathy: It's a Diplomacy check that's actually incredibly hard to boost and is also rather niche. A Diplomacy version of this is very likely T2, but this version isn't giving enough to a bad class feature, probably leaving it at T4.
All of the T1 F feats: I think we get it. You don't think the Kingdom Building rules and the Downtime Rules have any use in D&D. Marking every one of these feats on the same cost as leadership doesn't do anyone any favors who wish to play with these rules.

Gunslinger: While I'll contend that this should be a gunslinger class feature also, you can use your ranged weapon in melee, which is a stronger feat than you give it credit for.
Godless Healing: Because a feat slot is more expensive than a wand of CLW. Since it's a move action, martial isn't going to be able to use this and full attack, and casters have better uses for their feats. This is T4 at best.
Greater Wild Empathy: Or you can just put skill ranks into Diplomacy. Diplomacy is in fact easier to boost than Wild Empathy. Sure, it's hard to Diplomacy non-intelligent vermin/plants, but I wonder if that should have just been part of Wild Empathy from the start.

Harmonic Spell: The interesting part is that any round that a spell is cast doesn't count as a performance round. I contend that that part should be a feat, and not part of the rules, and that this should be at least a T4 feat due to being an Extra Performance that scales.

Ok, I'm going to stop at Hs for now.

[Tanuki Tales]

In terms of throwing a new subsystem in out of nowhere like you were contending? Yes. In actual power? This feat is about the same as a feat that says "Your cohort automatically succeeds on any Aid another checks to assist you". It's something that comes off a powerful feat, does something kind of helpful, but you do need to decently invest in it (by having a kingdom building worth doubling). I again emphasise that the feat is balanced in the subsystem that it references, and worthless if the subsystem doesn't exist.

Here, again, like with Divination Guide, you're falling into the trap that since it improves a really powerful option, it must also be a really powerful feat.

But in the case where the subsystem is being used for the benefit of a minority of the party, isn't being used by the rest of the party or the GM isn't prepared for it?

Ok, yeah, that's a terribly worded feat that's so badly worded because it tries to do too many things at once. However, to be able to get a bonus in crafting, the bonus has to be there throughout the check (I hope I'm not remembering a house rule, here). I would at least rule that the aider would have to be there the whole crafting time, which I'll admit wouldn't do enough to stop double time crafting.

How about we say it's tier 2 and wait for further playtest evidence to show otherwise?

Fast Crawl: I'm hesitant to call this T6 because it's existence weakens even further PC trip lockdown (since someone with this feat could 5ft step then get up in many cases safely.

You can't 5ft step and stand up in the same round though, since standing up is considered movement. So, how exactly does this weaken trip builds?

Familiar Spell: It's a cheaper quicken that asks you to use no save spells, or on the other side, it's an incredibly smart contingency. I could see packing a Familiar Spell with Invisibility or Dimension Door without having a second thought. I could see this being T2.

Tier 2 it is.

Fast Empathy: It's a Diplomacy check that's actually incredibly hard to boost and is also rather niche. A Diplomacy version of this is very likely T2, but this version isn't giving enough to a bad class feature, probably leaving it at T4.

Is Wild Empathy really that terrible though? If memory serves, some particularly nasty commoner builds revolved around using Handle Animal and this class feature is that beefed up.

All of the T1 F feats: I think we get it. You don't think the Kingdom Building rules and the Downtime Rules have any use in D&D. Marking every one of these feats on the same cost as leadership doesn't do anyone any favors who wish to play with these rules.

Then can you outline the exact ramification of these feats if the subsystem is introduced?

Gunslinger: While I'll contend that this should be a gunslinger class feature also, you can use your ranged weapon in melee, which is a stronger feat than you give it credit for.

Actually, it only applies to firearms. And even if it did work on all ranged weapons, why would you take this over Point Blank Shot?

Godless Healing: Because a feat slot is more expensive than a wand of CLW. Since it's a move action, martial isn't going to be able to use this and full attack, and casters have better uses for their feats. This is T4 at best.

Hm...you're right. 315 gold is cheaper than a feat slot.

Greater Wild Empathy: Or you can just put skill ranks into Diplomacy. Diplomacy is in fact easier to boost than Wild Empathy. Sure, it's hard to Diplomacy non-intelligent vermin/plants, but I wonder if that should have just been part of Wild Empathy from the start.

Well, to use Diplomacy would require also being able to speak the specific language of those fey and elementals. But I do agree that plants and vermin should be part of the class feature in the first place. What tier do you feel this is then?

Harmonic Spell: The interesting part is that any round that a spell is cast doesn't count as a performance round. I contend that that part should be a feat, and not part of the rules, and that this should be at least a T4 feat due to being an Extra Performance that scales.

I feel like Bardic Music go undeservedly nerfed through the floor, which is why I feel like what the feat does should be an inherent part of the Bardic Music/Bardic Spellcasting interaction.

[Kamai]

But in the case where the subsystem is being used for the benefit of a minority of the party, isn't being used by the rest of the party or the GM isn't prepared for it?

I'm not sure how you sneak in kingdom building rules. Given the in-game manpower that it takes, either the group is accepting some amount of time devoted to things alone, or the group is in kingdom building as a whole. The feat can't be sneaked in because if the kingdom building rules aren't in play, there's exactly nothing for it to interact with without DM input.
There are dangerous parts of the kingdom building rules, and this feat interacts with exactly none of them.

How about we say it's tier 2 and wait for further playtest evidence to show otherwise?

Yeah, I can agree with that.

You can't 5ft step and stand up in the same round though, since standing up is considered movement. So, how exactly does this weaken trip builds?

I was under the assumption that standing up was a non-movement move action. I'll say I was wrong and leave it at T6.

Is Wild Empathy really that terrible though? If memory serves, some particularly nasty commoner builds revolved around using Handle Animal and this class feature is that beefed up.

Is there anything that could be done in the build that wouldn't be done at least as well with Speak with Animals and Diplomacy?

Then can you outline the exact ramification of these feats if the subsystem is introduced?

Focused Worker is actually probably as dangerous as you first listed. After rereading the downtime rules, I noticed that you can use capital to permanently hire low-level casters. This does let you create a specific type of capital that your business is having trouble producing a lot faster (treat this as +10-+20 to a skill check for downtime). If you couldn't hire people, this would be a solid T3 feat.
Focused Manager doesn't actually reduce costs in a meaningful manner. I would call this T2, because it does help access a really dangerous resource, but nowhere on the level of Focused Worker.

Fortunate Manager/Ruler essentially lets you reroll one roll that happens about once every 2 game months. You can dodge some nasty consequences, but it's not like you can ready the business/kingdom against these events before they happen. It sounds pretty T5 to me, if not T6.

Actually, it only applies to firearms. And even if it did work on all ranged weapons, why would you take this over Point Blank Shot?

It doesn't have the Fighter 4 requirement through Weapon Specialization, assuming you're talking about Point Blank Master. If you really meant Point Blank Shot, this feat is essentially "Your gun is now a melee weapon that keeps it's range. There is no penalty for using this as a melee weapon." On top of this, guns already want to be within charge range, so they can hit Touch AC. Now, you can still fight if you actually get charged.

Well, to use Diplomacy would require also being able to speak the specific language of those fey and elementals. But I do agree that plants and vermin should be part of the class feature in the first place. What tier do you feel this is then?

This feat is strictly outdone by Diplomacy + Linguistics against the intelligent creatures. Against the non-intelligent creatures, it should be part of Wild Empathy rules. Most feats like that you've marked as T5.

Edit: Let's do I's and J's while I can't sleep:
Improved Day Job: From what I can parse, this is strictly a PFS rule, using what's usually a profession, craft, or perform to earn a little gold between sessions. I couldn't tell you about gold flow in PFS, but if the rules were adapted to an ordinary game, this feat would be T6 (a even more niche Skill Focus in a non-adventuring skill).
Improved Stonecutting: It's a +2 bonus on a subset of a skill. If Skill Focus is T5, this skill should not be above T5.
Improved Familiar: A lot of these familiars can actually interact with magic items. Familiars borrow your ranks in UMD. I hope you see where this is going (besides a T2 feat).
Improved Fiendish Sorcery: What you see as a powerful feat I see as a tax. Fiendish Sorcery (the Tiefling feature) is supposed to compensate for an appropriate Tiefling's -2 Charisma. This absolutely should not be a feat, let alone a T2 feat. This should be an alternate racial feature.
Inspirational Commander: Keeping in mind that this feat only interacts with mass combat rules, my first inclination would put this feat at T3. It expands the options in the army along the same lines that a good 3.5 Tactical Feat would for the player. I can't see any boon option that outright breaks mass combat.

I don't see any Js that I object to. If I wanted to take a shot at Ks (since it's also short):
Keen Scent: T4. It's a really nice feature, but it's a pain to pinpoint with scent, and scent's short range is more annoying on a PC then a NPC guarding something.
Ki Stand: T5. Monk.
Knockout Strike: T5. The fact that it has to be an Unarmed Strike, and not just any non-lethal attack, and that you can't get this damage too reliably (flanking is out for this extra damage) makes this feat too limiting.

[Don't worry, I'm having fun with all of this.]

[Tanuki Tales]

I'll get back on this project by tomorrow at the earliest. I have a lot of chaos to deal with in my contest thread and a decent homework load this week.

[Tanuki Tales]

Is there anything that could be done in the build that wouldn't be done at least as well with Speak with Animals and Diplomacy?

Speak with Animals doesn't apply to Magical Beast is what comes to mind.

Focused Worker is actually probably as dangerous as you first listed. After rereading the downtime rules, I noticed that you can use capital to permanently hire low-level casters. This does let you create a specific type of capital that your business is having trouble producing a lot faster (treat this as +10-+20 to a skill check for downtime). If you couldn't hire people, this would be a solid T3 feat.
Focused Manager doesn't actually reduce costs in a meaningful manner. I would call this T2, because it does help access a really dangerous resource, but nowhere on the level of Focused Worker.

Fortunate Manager/Ruler essentially lets you reroll one roll that happens about once every 2 game months. You can dodge some nasty consequences, but it's not like you can ready the business/kingdom against these events before they happen. It sounds pretty T5 to me, if not T6.

Alrighty.

It doesn't have the Fighter 4 requirement through Weapon Specialization, assuming you're talking about Point Blank Master. If you really meant Point Blank Shot, this feat is essentially "Your gun is now a melee weapon that keeps it's range. There is no penalty for using this as a melee weapon." On top of this, guns already want to be within charge range, so they can hit Touch AC. Now, you can still fight if you actually get charged.

I must be misremembering Point Blank Shot then. Would this really be more than tier 4?

This feat is strictly outdone by Diplomacy + Linguistics against the intelligent creatures. Against the non-intelligent creatures, it should be part of Wild Empathy rules. Most feats like that you've marked as T5.

Fair enough.

Improved Day Job: From what I can parse, this is strictly a PFS rule, using what's usually a profession, craft, or perform to earn a little gold between sessions. I couldn't tell you about gold flow in PFS, but if the rules were adapted to an ordinary game, this feat would be T6 (a even more niche Skill Focus in a non-adventuring skill).

Alrighty.

Improved Stonecutting: It's a +2 bonus on a subset of a skill. If Skill Focus is T5, this skill should not be above T5.

My bad, I misread it as +4 on top of the +2 for +6.

Improved Familiar: A lot of these familiars can actually interact with magic items. Familiars borrow your ranks in UMD. I hope you see where this is going (besides a T2 feat).

I...don't know what I was thinking. Some of those Improved Familiars can be broken.

Improved Fiendish Sorcery: What you see as a powerful feat I see as a tax. Fiendish Sorcery (the Tiefling feature) is supposed to compensate for an appropriate Tiefling's -2 Charisma. This absolutely should not be a feat, let alone a T2 feat. This should be an alternate racial feature.

While this should be an alternate racial trait, keep in mind that the project made Fiendish Heritage a Tier 5 feat. So if they grab Fiendish Heritage and change to something like Rakshasa, they switch out that Charisma penalty for a bonus.

Inspirational Commander: Keeping in mind that this feat only interacts with mass combat rules, my first inclination would put this feat at T3. It expands the options in the army along the same lines that a good 3.5 Tactical Feat would for the player. I can't see any boon option that outright breaks mass combat.

What kind of boons does the feat give?

[Don't worry, I'm having fun with all of this.]

Glad to hear.


Edit:


Here are the Ks and Ls in the meantime.


Tier 6

• Leaf Singer - Really niche.
• Letter Fury - Really niche.
• Life-Dominant Soul - I don't see how this makes your character better.
• Lithe Attacker - Players can't take this nine times out of ten.
• Lucky Halfling - A once per day +1 to a saving throw? I can't make this tier 5, because it's objectively worse than the other save boosters.

Tier 5

• Ki Stand - Monks.
• Knockout Artist - Bad feat is bad.
• Leaping Shot Deed - Why isn't this a normal deed? The prerequisites are also steep.
• Learn Ranger Trap - I was informed that these suck.
• Legacy of Heroes - This is almost worse than Weapon Focus and may actually just be worse.
• Life Lure - Niche feat.
• Lightning Reflexes - Bad feat is bad.
• Light Step - Kind of useful, but its at the end of a feat chain that invalidates the previous feats. I think I might just make it Tier 6 for that reason.

Tier 4

• Keen Scent - Scent is nice, but not amazing.
• Lingering Performance - This doesn't last for enough rounds.

Tier 3

• Luck of Heroes - This feat is pretty cool.

Tier 1

• Leadership - This broken monster is the reason we're doing this entire project. Even splitting this feat into two different feats might not be enough balance.

[Kamai]

I must be misremembering Point Blank Shot then. Would this really be more than tier 4?

Even with being able to attack touch AC? Probably high T4 at best. If 3.5 style Power Attack existed as Deadly Aim, this could be low T3.

While this should be an alternate racial trait, keep in mind that the project made Fiendish Heritage a Tier 5 feat. So if they grab Fiendish Heritage and change to something like Rakshasa, they switch out that Charisma penalty for a bonus.

I see where you're coming from.

What kind of boons does the feat give?

So a lot of the boons are situational (but good) modifiers to particular checks. Checks for damage, checks for morale, checks for defense, that sort of thing. One of the boons are "Your army always has a chosen tactic" which made it really feel like a tactical feat.

Spoiler: Extra Tactics

Show

Cautious Combat: Your army fights cautiously in order to maintain morale. Decrease its OM by 2, and add 2 to all its Morale checks.

Cavalry Experts: Your army's OM increases by 2 against armies that aren't mounted. The army must have the mount resource to use this tactic.

Defensive Wall: Your army fights defensively, taking actions to protect fellow units as needed. Decrease its OM by 2, and increase its DV by 2.

Dirty Fighters: Your army uses trickery and unfair tactics to gain an advantage at the start of a battle. For one Melee phase this battle, its OM increases by 6. (After that Melee phase, the opposing army knows to be ready for such tricks.)

Expert Flankers: Your army is skilled at surrounding the foe and distracting them, at the cost of spreading out too much and being more vulnerable. Increase its OM by 2, and decrease its DV by 2.

False Retreat: Once per battle, your army can make a false retreat, luring a target enemy army deeper into your territory. On the phase your army makes a false retreat, it doesn't attempt an Offense check. On the phase after it uses this tactic, increase its OM and DV by 6 against the target army.

Full Defense: Your army focuses on total defense of the battlefield. Increase its DV by 4, and decrease its OM by 4.

Relentless Brutality: Your army throws caution to the wind and attacks with savage and gory vigor. Increase its OM by 4, and decrease its DV by 4.

Siegebreaker: Your army targets another army's siege engines in an attempt to destroy them. If your army damages the target army, your army attempts a second Offense check; if successful, destroy one of the target's siege engines. This tactic has no effect on enemy armies without siege engines.

Sniper Support: Your army holds some ranged units in reserve to attack a target enemy army during the Melee phase. If your army damages the target army in the Melee phase, it deals 2 additional points of damage from these ranged attacks. The army must have ranged attacks to use this tactic.

Spellbreaker: Your army has specialists who can disrupt enemy spellcasting. Increase its DV by 4 against armies with the spellcasting ability.

Taunt: Your army is skilled at taunting its opponents, provoking stupid mistakes and overconfidence in battle. The target army must attempt a Morale check (DC = 10 + your army's ACR) at the start of each Melee or Ranged phase; failure means it reduces its OM and DV against your army by 2 for that phase. If the target army succeeds at two of these Morale checks, it's immune to this tactic for the remainder of the battle.

For the most part, assume that OM are harder to boost attack bonuses, DV is AC, and ACR is the Challenge Rating/Effective Level of the army.

Now for the new feats:
Letter Fury: I just want to express how sad it makes me that this feat is terrible given just how Pathfinder Goblin it is.
Life Dominant Soul: The Damphir gets ruined by positive energy normally. Feat isn't a general pick, but I think it's pretty amazing in it's niche (allied channel energy spam).
Lithe Attacker: PCs can't use this. Their large Eidolons and Animal Companions sure can, though. I think it needs to be evaluated with respect to them.
Lucky Halfling: Reread it. It's roll twice, take better on one allied save/day. Even better than that if it's an ally's weak save and your strong save. Still probably only T5. If this were Cha mod times/day or even 3/day, I'd be happy to call it high T4.

Because I'm really interested in keeping this going, I'm going to get as far as I can on Metamagic feats. These ratings, however, assume that the cost of any metamagic reducers are already paid by the reducer. Thus, all feats are evaluated by their original spell level adjustment, and not by their strength in a metamagic rod.

Spoiler: Metamagic ratings

Show

Tier 6
Burning Spell: It may have a niche in weak caster disruption, but otherwise compare to Empower Spell.
Widen Spell: Extremely expensive. Often makes spells harder to use without friendly fire.

Tier 5
Echoing Spell: This is a really high cost for splitting a spell slot down. On top of it, it has to be the same spell.
Heighten Spell: Prepared casters just want to use the next level up spells. Spontaneous casters can get a little use out of this to make their spells be relevant longer.
Selective Spell: It should have 1 of Spellcraft 10 ranks or a +1 adjustment, not both.
Silent Spell: Niche, but rather powerful in it's niche.
Still Spell: See Silent Spell.


Tier 4
Concussive Spell: This ties well with a Sonic spell that does damage plus an effect. Probably not worth +2 on a pure damage sonic spell.
Elemental Spell: Useful effect. However, 3.5s version of this feat was at about the right power (+0, choose on preparation).
Empower Spell: This is what makes the case for Evocation specific metamagic reducers for me.
Flaring Spell: Dazzle is such a weak condition. It's only T4 because it's practically a no-save effect.
Intensify Spell: I don't remember this having a lot of utility outside of Evocation spells. The strength of this feat is linked to the strength of Evocation spells.
Jinxed Spell: Really cool but really feat intensive.
Maximize Spell: Strong, but too high cost for a lot of spells.
Shadow Grasp: Docked compared to Rime Spell for feat requirements and fail on saving throw.
Threatening Illusion: More appropriate as an archetype feature than a +1 metamagic.
Thundering Spell: Too expensive compared to Disruptive Spell.
Toppling Spell: Would have been safe to put as an always on feat instead of a +1 metamagic feat, especially with the restriction to force spells.

Tier 3
Coaxing Spell: Probably at just about the right power for ignoring immunities. Not sure if spontaneous casters pay enough for this effect, though.
Consecrate Spell: Again, love it. Just the right tradeoff for a bane effect.
Ectoplasmic Spell: Another nice "bane" effect.
Enlarge Spell: This is awkward to use on long range spells, but really nice at other ranges.
Extend Spell: A fair benchmark for balance.
Focused Spell: It's -1 to your Save DC to get a overall +1 against 1 creature.
Lingering Spell: While useful for other spells, it's a boost that Evocation needed.
Merciful Spell: It's good that Paizo understood that sometimes that it's enough to charge the feat slot.
Piercing Spell: Sounds like a fair trade to me.
Rime Spell: About what +1 should be.
Threnodic Spell: See coaxing spell.
Umbral Spell: This rating assume that 1 target/level spells are affected by it. Combines very well with darkvision and mass buffs.

Tier 2
Bouncing Spell: Redirect and try again is a pretty powerful effect at +1. This is only really limited by being restricted to Save:None spells.
Disruptive Spell: I think this drives caster vs caster to be even more rocket-taggy.
Reach Spell: Probably a weak T2, but Touch to Close probably should be +2, not +1.
Sickening Spell: Turns every spell that does even a point of damage to be a setup spell for anything else. Probably gets scary with natively swift action spells and damaging spells with a duration.
Tenebrous Spell: Only because it has a good subset of feats where it costs +0. There had to been another way to get the synergy.
Thanatopic Spell: I really don't like it saying no to other spell immunities.

Tier 1
Persistent Spell: Roll twice, take worst is really nasty. Stack it with any of the other fun metamagics (or a true control spell) and you're getting more than your +2's worth.
Quicken Spell: This feat warps game balance at full cost, let alone with anything else.

[Tanuki Tales]

Even with being able to attack touch AC? Probably high T4 at best. If 3.5 style Power Attack existed as Deadly Aim, this could be low T3.

Alrighty.

So a lot of the boons are situational (but good) modifiers to particular checks. Checks for damage, checks for morale, checks for defense, that sort of thing. One of the boons are "Your army always has a chosen tactic" which made it really feel like a tactical feat.

Spoiler: Extra Tactics

Show

Cautious Combat: Your army fights cautiously in order to maintain morale. Decrease its OM by 2, and add 2 to all its Morale checks.

Cavalry Experts: Your army's OM increases by 2 against armies that aren't mounted. The army must have the mount resource to use this tactic.

Defensive Wall: Your army fights defensively, taking actions to protect fellow units as needed. Decrease its OM by 2, and increase its DV by 2.

Dirty Fighters: Your army uses trickery and unfair tactics to gain an advantage at the start of a battle. For one Melee phase this battle, its OM increases by 6. (After that Melee phase, the opposing army knows to be ready for such tricks.)

Expert Flankers: Your army is skilled at surrounding the foe and distracting them, at the cost of spreading out too much and being more vulnerable. Increase its OM by 2, and decrease its DV by 2.

False Retreat: Once per battle, your army can make a false retreat, luring a target enemy army deeper into your territory. On the phase your army makes a false retreat, it doesn't attempt an Offense check. On the phase after it uses this tactic, increase its OM and DV by 6 against the target army.

Full Defense: Your army focuses on total defense of the battlefield. Increase its DV by 4, and decrease its OM by 4.

Relentless Brutality: Your army throws caution to the wind and attacks with savage and gory vigor. Increase its OM by 4, and decrease its DV by 4.

Siegebreaker: Your army targets another army's siege engines in an attempt to destroy them. If your army damages the target army, your army attempts a second Offense check; if successful, destroy one of the target's siege engines. This tactic has no effect on enemy armies without siege engines.

Sniper Support: Your army holds some ranged units in reserve to attack a target enemy army during the Melee phase. If your army damages the target army in the Melee phase, it deals 2 additional points of damage from these ranged attacks. The army must have ranged attacks to use this tactic.

Spellbreaker: Your army has specialists who can disrupt enemy spellcasting. Increase its DV by 4 against armies with the spellcasting ability.

Taunt: Your army is skilled at taunting its opponents, provoking stupid mistakes and overconfidence in battle. The target army must attempt a Morale check (DC = 10 + your army's ACR) at the start of each Melee or Ranged phase; failure means it reduces its OM and DV against your army by 2 for that phase. If the target army succeeds at two of these Morale checks, it's immune to this tactic for the remainder of the battle.

For the most part, assume that OM are harder to boost attack bonuses, DV is AC, and ACR is the Challenge Rating/Effective Level of the army.

Tier 3 it is.

Life Dominant Soul: The Damphir gets ruined by positive energy normally. Feat isn't a general pick, but I think it's pretty amazing in it's niche (allied channel energy spam).

Check the wording though. To get half healing from positive energy, they also lose half healing from negative energy. I just don't see how they makes them objectively better.

Lithe Attacker: PCs can't use this. Their large Eidolons and Animal Companions sure can, though. I think it needs to be evaluated with respect to them.

Eidolons can't, as they're Outsiders and it seems really niche for animal companions and intensive on their resources (before this system is introduced). I wouldn't put it above tier 5.

Lucky Halfling: Reread it. It's roll twice, take better on one allied save/day. Even better than that if it's an ally's weak save and your strong save. Still probably only T5. If this were Cha mod times/day or even 3/day, I'd be happy to call it high T4.

But your Halfling could also roll less and thus this feat was completely wasted. It's just a huge gamble for a low payout.

Burning Spell: It may have a niche in weak caster disruption, but otherwise compare to Empower Spell.

I don't think I can really easily call any Metamagic feat tier 6. 2 to 18 damage may be worthless, but I don't know if it's tier 6 worthless.

Widen Spell: Extremely expensive. Often makes spells harder to use without friendly fire.

Again, I'm very gun-shy of labeling any Metamagic as tier 6. Widen Spell is definitely a crap metamagic though.

Echoing Spell: This is a really high cost for splitting a spell slot down. On top of it, it has to be the same spell.

While somewhat useful, I'd rather buy a Pearl of Power first. So I agree with it being tier 5.

Heighten Spell: Prepared casters just want to use the next level up spells. Spontaneous casters can get a little use out of this to make their spells be relevant longer.

I know there are uses for Heighten spell and good ones, I just can't remember them. So...tier 5.

Selective Spell: It should have 1 of Spellcraft 10 ranks or a +1 adjustment, not both.

Huh?

Silent Spell: Niche, but rather powerful in it's niche.
Still Spell: See Silent Spell.

I think this should make them tier 4 at the very least. You ranked these without metamagic reducers in mind, but those do exist, which makes me wonder if we shouldn't be overly conservative with low adjustment metamagic feats.

Intensify Spell: I don't remember this having a lot of utility outside of Evocation spells. The strength of this feat is linked to the strength of Evocation spells.

It can definitely make Evocation spells better. Definitely a candidate for metamagic reducers, but we'll call it tier 4 for now.

Jinxed Spell: Really cool but really feat intensive.

Halfling Jinx is turning out to be the best racial trait since the Human bonus feat though. :P

Shadow Grasp: Docked compared to Rime Spell for feat requirements and fail on saving throw.

It'd be nice on a Darkness spell, but its feat requirements do make this rather niche.

Toppling Spell: Would have been safe to put as an always on feat instead of a +1 metamagic feat, especially with the restriction to force spells.

Here's where I severely disagree. I saw a particularly nasty Sorcerer build where this metamagic ended up creating an uber combo that nothing printed in the game could save against (I believe it was called Geyser tripping or something like that). This is tier 2.

Coaxing Spell: Probably at just about the right power for ignoring immunities. Not sure if spontaneous casters pay enough for this effect, though.

See, I feel like this is tier 4 or 5, just because it only applies to vermin and oozes, nothing else.

Lingering Spell: While useful for other spells, it's a boost that Evocation needed.

I see its use coming from illusion spells as cover honestly.

Rime Spell: About what +1 should be.

This feat adds a good debuff without any kind of save involved though. Shouldn't this be tier 2?

Threnodic Spell: See coaxing spell.

This is seriously better than coaxing spell, but belongs in tier 3.

Disruptive Spell: I think this drives caster vs caster to be even more rocket-taggy.

I'm not convinced that the increase to the Concentration check is enough to make this metamagic matter. Casters already made Concentration checks a trivial thing.

Reach Spell: Probably a weak T2, but Touch to Close probably should be +2, not +1.

Agreed.

Sickening Spell: Turns every spell that does even a point of damage to be a setup spell for anything else. Probably gets scary with natively swift action spells and damaging spells with a duration.

Sickened isn't that great a debuff, so I think you might be over-valuing this feat.

Thanatopic Spell: I really don't like it saying no to other spell immunities.

I have to disagree with you on this one. I'm not a fan of spells that say flat "no" to things, instead of just providing bonuses to saves and such (like how they changed Freedom of Movement). I feel this should be tier 3.

[Kamai]

But your Halfling could also roll less and thus this feat was completely wasted. It's just a huge gamble for a low payout.

This isn't any more of a gamble than any other reroll feat. He gets to see both die rolls, and chooses one.

I don't think I can really easily call any Metamagic feat tier 6. 2 to 18 damage may be worthless, but I don't know if it's tier 6 worthless.

Can you think of any spell where you can use this, and you'd rather have the 2-18 damage over a spell 1 level higher?

Huh?

I think it's overcosted for having both the skill and the +1 spell level requirement.

I think this should make them tier 4 at the very least. You ranked these without metamagic reducers in mind, but those do exist, which makes me wonder if we shouldn't be overly conservative with low adjustment metamagic feats.

I still think it's the metamagic reducers that should have the high tiers (or even cost some feat points if it comes as a trait or class feature), not necessarily the Metamagic itself. Otherwise, you risk making metamagic feats too build intensive without grabbing the reducers it's balanced around.

Here's where I severely disagree. I saw a particularly nasty Sorcerer build where this metamagic ended up creating an uber combo that nothing printed in the game could save against (I believe it was called Geyser tripping or something like that). This is tier 2.

I forgot completely about that. Yeah, Tier 2.

See, I feel like this is tier 4 or 5, just because it only applies to vermin and oozes, nothing else.

That's fair. I guess I'm getting a little gun shy on immunity breakers.

I see its use coming from illusion spells as cover honestly.

Not that it matters for the tiering, but it gives the concealment no matter what spell you put down. It's going to be best on spells that do something nasty and gone.

This feat adds a good debuff without any kind of save involved though. Shouldn't this be tier 2?

Yeah, was undervaluing entangled as a standalone condition.

I'm not convinced that the increase to the Concentration check is enough to make this metamagic matter. Casters already made Concentration checks a trivial thing.

I thought it was a lot harder to trivialize Concentration checks, but yeah, this doesn't scale as fast as I thought.

Sickened isn't that great a debuff, so I think you might be over-valuing this feat.

Right. I also misread it as being on damage instead of on failed save. Maybe was also overvaluing -2 on Saves.

I have to disagree with you on this one. I'm not a fan of spells that say flat "no" to things, instead of just providing bonuses to saves and such (like how they changed Freedom of Movement). I feel this should be tier 3.

When I was writing it up, I was imaging the whole chain of immunities, anti-immunities, and immunities to the anti-immunities, which I think is horrific design. I see your point with Pathfinder turning most Save or Die into Save or hurt.

[Tanuki Tales]

This isn't any more of a gamble than any other reroll feat. He gets to see both die rolls, and chooses one.

We'll make it tier 4 like the others then and see where it goes.

Can you think of any spell where you can use this, and you'd rather have the 2-18 damage over a spell 1 level higher?

Eh...not really. Tier 6 until we see evidence to the otherwise.

I think it's overcosted for having both the skill and the +1 spell level requirement.

Ah.

I still think it's the metamagic reducers that should have the high tiers (or even cost some feat points if it comes as a trait or class feature), not necessarily the Metamagic itself. Otherwise, you risk making metamagic feats too build intensive without grabbing the reducers it's balanced around.

Aren't the reducers mostly traits in Pathfinder though?


I've gotten the Gs through Ls on the list, Ms through Ps up and I'll add the Metamagics before doing my tiering for the Ms.


Edit:

Here are the Ms!

Tier 6

• Master of Falconry - Really niche.
• Master of Wonders - Really niche.
• Master of Your Kind - Niche and can't be taken by players. Probably tier 5 for familiars.
• Narrow Frame - Can't be taken by PCs and niche either way.
• Ostentatious Display - This feat is just trash.
• Pass for Human - Niche.
• Potent Holy Symbol - Vampires didn't need this used against them. Niche.
• Precocious Youth - So bad.
• Razortusk - I's can haz bite attk?! Seriously though, 1d4 damage? So niche.
• Reject Poison - Really niche.
• Revered Guidance - So niche.
• Rugged Northerner - Another crap environment feat.

Tier 5

• Mark of Evil - Really niche.
• Master Alchemist - This would be really useful if Alchemical items and most poisons weren't meh.
• Meditation Master - Bad feat is bad.
• Meditative Concentration - Casters aren't taking this.
• Merciless Rush - This should be a part of the rules.
• Monstrous Mask - Niche, but it applies to the vast majority of encountered creatures and is a big bonus.
• Mystic Stride - Niche.
• Named Bullet (Grit) - Like most of the Grit feats so far, this should have been a normal deed. This is a kind of neat feat otherwise.
• Nature Soul - Bad feat is bad.
• Nimble Moves - Meh feat and it gets completely invalidated down its chain.
• No Name (Grit) - Bad deed is bad.
• Oracular Intuition - Eh, it's meh.
• Persuasive - Meh feat is meh.
• Phalanx Fighter (Teamwork) - Teamwork feats are bad.
• Planar Hunter - Kind of niche, but neat.
• Practiced Tactician - Teamwork feats are bad.
• Prdoigy - Meh feat.
• Pure Faith - So incredibly niche.
• Quick Preparation - Might be tier 6. I've never seen that rule strictly enforced and it's one I've never even used as a GM.
• Raging Brutality - Why is this gained so late?
• Raging Hurler - Why yes, just tossing away my weapon is a smart idea!
• Raging Throw - Niche and feat intensive.
• Resilient Eidolon - Bad feat is bad.
• Reward of Grace - Hey! Look! Another Weapon Focus feat!
• Ricochet Shot Deed (Grit) - Gunslingers should just normally be able to do this. It's a freaking class cliche!
• Ricochet Splash Weapon - Niche.
• Righteous Healing - Bad feat is bad.
• Run - There is no solid mechanical benefit to having a high movement speed. This may just be tier 6.

Tier 4

• Magical Aptitude - I'm tempted to make this tier 3, as those two skills are two of the best in the game.
• Master of the Ledger - Hey, somewhere my accounting classes come in useful! Even assuming you always get heads, this compounding interest only turns into ~1455 gold after one in-game year. While that is a ~146% return on investment, you'd honestly be better just adventuring and dungeon crawling. This should probably be part of the rules.
• Maximized Spellstrike - Please inform me if this feat is better than it sounds.
• Menacing Bane - Useful, but not terribly so. Especially with the arbitrary limitation on Double Bane.
• Merciful Bane - Useful, but not terribly so.
• Minotaur's Charge - See above.
• Moonlight Summons - Kind of niche, kind of useful, still a buff to conjuration that isn't needed. I definitely have fluff ideas for its use though for a race from one of my contests.
• Necromatic Affinity - Useful, but not tier 3 useful.
• Nimble Natural Summons - See Moonlight.
• Peshish Magic - I'm amused by this feat. Depending on those spells that get added, this feat might be tier 3.
• Powerful Shape - Eh, not that great a feat. Might be tier 3.
• Protector's Strike - Decent feat and an interesting one.
• Quick Channel - Useful, but not terribly so.
• Quick Shape - See above.
• Radiant Charge - See above.
• Remote Bomb - See above.
• Reward of Life - See above.
• Rhetorical Flourish - This should be part of the rules.

Tier 3

• Malicious Eye - Decent feat.
• Natural Ruler - I'm making this tier 3 until Kam says otherwise.
• Noble Scion - Scion of Peace and Scion of War.
• Ordered Mind - Decent feat.
• Painful Anchor - Decent feat.
• Pantheistic Blessing - No clue what this feat does.
• Planar Wild Shape - I was having Planar Shepherd flashbacks there for a minute! Decent feat.
• Practiced Leadership - Pity this feat will never see use, ever. This actually makes Teamwork feats useful.
• Prophetic Visionary - Decent feat.
• Raging Deathblow - Helloooo bag o' rats!
• Raging Vitality - It was stupid of them to make rage end when unconscious in the first place.
• Renown - No clue what this feat does.

Tier 2

• Mage's Tattoo - Caster level bump to a whole school, stacks with its prereq and gets some minor utility in the form of a cantrip.
• Master Craftsmen - This feat treads dangerous water.
• Parry Spell - And you get a free Spell Turning!
• Peacemaker - I don't like how vaguely worded this feat is.
• Planar Preservationist - Summoning is king.

Tier 1

• Major Spell Expertise - No.
• Minor Spell Expertise - Blood Money.
• Natural Spell - Wildshape got nerfed, but this feat is still too good.
• Planned Spontaneity - No.
• Preferred Spell - No.

Edit Edit:

Ns, Os, and Ps added.

Edit Edit Edit:

Qs and Rs added.

[Tanuki Tales]

Qs and Rs added to the To Do list.

[Kamai]

Yay more feats:
Master Craftsman: I really don't see how giving non magic users access to magic item crafting is treading dangerous water. This is not T2 because the feat does very little without taking another feat, and still only gives the craftsman access to one feat. On top of this, the craftsman is going to have a harder time making these items than Sir Wizard Spellcraft. This is T3 at best, and if I were doing this system, I'd even mark it as T4 not due to power level but due to helping the balance of the game.
Minor Spell Expertise: You don't get access to this feat until 1st level spells are starting to get phased out. This dedicates these spells to one spell for the rest of the career. How often do you see Wizards getting Rings of Wizardry I? With all of this in mind, I think it's high T3 at best.
Major Spell Expertise: I don't have as strong of a case for this, but when you have 9ths, how often are your 5th level slots going to be pressured? This one is probably T2.
Nimble Moves: I feel like 5ft step through difficult terrain is stronger than you give it credit for, but I'm not sure I can make a good enough case for it.
Natural Ruler: I only hesitate to put it at T5 because it can self stack the stability bonus. This is otherwise really no better than a +2/+2 skill feat. Unless you have a more elegant solution to self-stacking feats that can get out of control, T4.
Practiced Tactician: I know there are bad teamwork feats, but I thought the reason teamwork feats were low tier because of their absurd cost. Tactician gets rid of the 2 feat slot+ cost, and more uses of that could make the iffy feats a lot better. This sounds T4 to me.
Planar Wild Shape: Getting Smite Evil/Good on every Wild shape seems to say screw you Paladin. I don't know if this means that it should be T2, but I don't like it.
Parry Spell: I feel like you're underestimating how bad Counterspelling really is. I think this is at best T3, because it still has the requirements of spending a standard action, and either having the right spell, spell slots at a higher level than the target, or a ~50/50 dispel magic.
Quick Preparation: Even if it's played by the book, you may have one time in a full adventure that taking 30 minutes less to prep is useful. Definitely T6.
Quick Wild Shape: Even if the Druid messes up, you can't catch them in a suboptimal form? Seems a bit too strong for T4.
Razor Tusk Attack: I can has Sneak Attack bite, though I do admit that it scales very poorly for Sneak Attack builds and Polearm lockdown builds. I suspect that it's T5 because of that.
Resilient Eidolon: Assuming you're in a group that enforces the eidolon dismissing on you going down, this actually ensures that you don't get ruined in early levels by a Sleep spell (because you can't resummon the Eidolon), and even in later levels, things will go bad except in super high op. I think this is T4 unless you want to make the claim that it should just be in the rules.
Radiant Charge: You're burning a powerful resource (Swift action LoH + mercies) for a really weak effect, and you have to dump all of your LoH charges at once, meaning you get to use this feat 1/day. Sounds very T5 to me.
Renown: 100% PFS feat. If I understand right, you can basically have access to purchase better gear a little sooner in PFS play. There is absolutely no analogue that can be sensibly ported to a home game.

[Tanuki Tales]

Yay more feats:
Master Craftsman: I really don't see how giving non magic users access to magic item crafting is treading dangerous water. This is not T2 because the feat does very little without taking another feat, and still only gives the craftsman access to one feat. On top of this, the craftsman is going to have a harder time making these items than Sir Wizard Spellcraft. This is T3 at best, and if I were doing this system, I'd even mark it as T4 not due to power level but due to helping the balance of the game.

Sorry, I misread it as making the taker count as if they had those creation feats.

Minor Spell Expertise: You don't get access to this feat until 1st level spells are starting to get phased out. This dedicates these spells to one spell for the rest of the career. How often do you see Wizards getting Rings of Wizardry I? With all of this in mind, I think it's high T3 at best.

Bloody Money never gets phased out as a spell that casters abuse. If it wasn't for that spell, I'd agree.

Major Spell Expertise: I don't have as strong of a case for this, but when you have 9ths, how often are your 5th level slots going to be pressured? This one is probably T2.

I still feel like giving casters free, decent level SLAs is a bad, bad idea. Maybe only tier 2, but still bad.

Nimble Moves: I feel like 5ft step through difficult terrain is stronger than you give it credit for, but I'm not sure I can make a good enough case for it.

The feat literally gets rendered useless at the end of its chain. I'm tempted to include a note on it that GMs should refund its points at some point.

Natural Ruler: I only hesitate to put it at T5 because it can self stack the stability bonus. This is otherwise really no better than a +2/+2 skill feat. Unless you have a more elegant solution to self-stacking feats that can get out of control, T4.

Alrighty.

Practiced Tactician: I know there are bad teamwork feats, but I thought the reason teamwork feats were low tier because of their absurd cost. Tactician gets rid of the 2 feat slot+ cost, and more uses of that could make the iffy feats a lot better. This sounds T4 to me.

The issue is that it's limited to the Teamwork feats that the Cavalier already has.

Planar Wild Shape: Getting Smite Evil/Good on every Wild shape seems to say screw you Paladin. I don't know if this means that it should be T2, but I don't like it.

Well, it's only once per day for the SE/SG.

Parry Spell: I feel like you're underestimating how bad Counterspelling really is. I think this is at best T3, because it still has the requirements of spending a standard action, and either having the right spell, spell slots at a higher level than the target, or a ~50/50 dispel magic.

Eh, maybe.

Quick Preparation: Even if it's played by the book, you may have one time in a full adventure that taking 30 minutes less to prep is useful. Definitely T6.

Felt so.

Quick Wild Shape: Even if the Druid messes up, you can't catch them in a suboptimal form? Seems a bit too strong for T4.

Except it's either a form that's two or four levels low though. So it's not like they get normal level Wildshape and Wildshape did get nerfed. Maybe tier 3?

Razor Tusk Attack: I can has Sneak Attack bite, though I do admit that it scales very poorly for Sneak Attack builds and Polearm lockdown builds. I suspect that it's T5 because of that.

It's literally a free dagger. How is that tier 5?

Resilient Eidolon: Assuming you're in a group that enforces the eidolon dismissing on you going down, this actually ensures that you don't get ruined in early levels by a Sleep spell (because you can't resummon the Eidolon), and even in later levels, things will go bad except in super high op. I think this is T4 unless you want to make the claim that it should just be in the rules.

It should be part of the rules, but we'll make it tier 4 until research shows otherwise.

Radiant Charge: You're burning a powerful resource (Swift action LoH + mercies) for a really weak effect, and you have to dump all of your LoH charges at once, meaning you get to use this feat 1/day. Sounds very T5 to me.

Completely forgot about Mercies.

Renown: 100% PFS feat. If I understand right, you can basically have access to purchase better gear a little sooner in PFS play. There is absolutely no analogue that can be sensibly ported to a home game.

So...tier 6 for being unusable?

[Kamai]

Bloody Money never gets phased out as a spell that casters abuse. If it wasn't for that spell, I'd agree.

My goodness, I thought that was at least a 3rd level spell. Who on earth thought that spell was a good idea?

The issue is that it's limited to the Teamwork feats that the Cavalier already has.

Of which the Cavalier already gets bonus feats. I'd agree with that being an issue otherwise.

Well, it's only once per day for the SE/SG.

I'm curious of the precedent that makes it 1/day and not 1/wildshape.

It's literally a free dagger. How is that tier 5?

I noted those builds specifically because for both of those builds, it's a dagger that doesn't require/stacks with TWF. I'm not saying that it matters for much of anyone else, but I think those can make good use of it.

[Tanuki Tales]

My goodness, I thought that was at least a 3rd level spell. Who on earth thought that spell was a good idea?

Probably Sean K. Reynolds.

Of which the Cavalier already gets bonus feats. I'd agree with that being an issue otherwise.

Fair enough. Tier 4 until playtesting proves otherwise.

I'm curious of the precedent that makes it 1/day and not 1/wildshape.

Well, before level 20, it costs 2 wildshapes to pull off that smite. So that's 4/day at level 18, but it does become infinite per day at level 20. Hm...

I noted those builds specifically because for both of those builds, it's a dagger that doesn't require/stacks with TWF. I'm not saying that it matters for much of anyone else, but I think those can make good use of it.

Then I suggest keeping it tier 6 and just adding a note concerning those builds.

[Tanuki Tales]

Here as the S's.

Tier 6

• Sandwalker - Another worthless environment feat.
• Schooled Reserve - Niche.
• Skilled Driver - Niche.
• Stable Gallop - PCs can't take it and for mounts, it's probably tier 5.
• Storm-Lashed - Niche.
• Superintendant - Sounds tier 6 to me.
• Supernal Feast - Niche AND disturbing and something that probably should be part of the rules.
• Sure-Footed - Players can't take it and even then, tier 6.
• Sure Grasp - Niche and probably should be part of the rules.
• Sword Oath - This feat is utter trash.

Tier 5

• Roof Runner - Might be tier 4.
• Scholar - Bad feat is bad.
• Sea Legs - Bad feat is bad.
• Secret Signs - Meh.
• Secret Stash Deed - Crap feat. This might just be tier 6.
• Seeds of Doubt - Bad feat is bad.
• Self-Sufficient - Bad feat is bad.
• Shake It Off - Teamwork feat.
• Shapeshifter Foil - Niche feat.
• Shared Insight - Bad feat is bad.
• Sharp Senses - Bad feat is bad.
• Signature Deed -This should be able to be taken multiple times.
• Sin Seer - So...you trade out Detect Evil and then want it back? Wut.
• Sly Draw - Someone inform me if this is better than it sounds.
• Smell Fear - Meh.
• Sneaking Precision - Rogues need love.
• Sneaky Vagabond - Niche.
• Sniper Shot - Gods be good, why?! Unlimited range should never have been removed from Sneak Attacks and this is so damn feat intensive. I want to make this tier 6.
• Sociable - Bad feat is bad.
• Spear Dancer - Dazzled sucks as a condition.
• Spider Step - Monk.
• Splintering Weapon - Niche. Might be tier 6.
• Squash Flat - Meh.
• Stalwart - DR 5/- is pretty crappy.
• Stealthy - Bad feat is bad.
• Steel Soul - Meh. Might be tier 4 since it's more useful than the save boosters.
• Stoic - Meh.
• Stone Faced - Niche.
• Stone Read - This is tier 5 because being underground is pretty common for adventurers.
• Stone Singer - See above.
• Strong Comeback - Niche.
• Summoner's Call - Niche, almost useless.
• Sunlit Strike - Niche.
• Survivor - Useful, but the prereqs suck.
• Swift Kitsune Shapechanger (Kitsune) - Pretty much useless.

Tier 4

• Sense Link - Useful, but not terribly so.
• Shapeshifting Hunter - Oh, hey! Daring Outlaw type feats for Pathfinder! Might be tier 3.
• Shatter Resolve - Useful feat, might just be tier 3.
• Shielded Caster - One of the actually useful Teamwork feats.
• Siphon Poison - A mundane version of a Cleric spell? Nice.
• Skill Focus - Always useful, but not terribly so.
• Slayer's Knack - It's Improved Critical two levels earlier and way more situational.
• Small But Deadly - Pretty useful, but not amazingly so.
• Sorcerous Bloodstrike - Eh...pretty meh feat.
• Spell Bane - Might be tier 3, don't know Inquisitor spells well.
• Spontaneous Metafocus - This only applies to one spell.
• Starlight Summons - Not big, but summoning doesn't need boosts.
• Stealth Synergy - Another useful Teamwork feat.
• Stone Sense - Discounted for crap prerequisite feat.
• Sunlight Summons - See Starlight Summons

Tier 3

• Shade of the Woodlands - This is an archetype turned into a feat.
• Shadow Gambit - Neat feat.
• Shaping Focus - Wildshape really got nerfed, but this feat is useful.
• Shared Judgement - Decent feat.
• Skeleton Summoner - Neat.
• Sluggish Jinx - Halfling Jinx...you make me want to play a Halfling just for all the feats that improve you.
• Spell Bluff - I've heard Counterspelling sucks.
• Spell Focus - Hm...might be tier 2.
• Spell Penetration - Might be tier 2.
• Spellsong - Decent feat.
• Split Hex - Decent feat.
• Split Major Hex -Hm...are Major Hexes good enough to warrant a hiher tier?

Tier 2

• Sacred Summons - This might be tier 1.
• Shadow Dodge - This is just a poorly worded feat. There's no apparent action to activate it, there's no cap on the dodge bonus and there's no duration either. It's niche, but it's broken in that niche.
• Spell Mastery - A Wizard's spellbook is their only real weakness.
• Steadfast Mind -Casters don't need a buff.
• Summon Good Monster - Might be tier 1.
• Summon Neutral Monster - See above.
• Superior Summoning - See above.

Tier 1

• Spell Hex - Blood Money.
• Spell Perfection - No.
• Squire - See...this was tier 3 until it turns into Leadership.

[JHShadon]

Perhaps you could put Squire as a Tier 3 feat and have it so you can pay more points at level 7 to upgrade it to Leadership.

[Kamai]

Most of these seem fine (or at least close enough), but Spell Mastery sticks out. There's really a few questions that should be asked?
How often does disappearing spellbooks come up in real game?
Should the cost really be the same no matter what level you pick up the feat? (I suspect not, because using it to pick up limited Wish as a backup is a completely different story than any first level spell.)
Would a caster high enough level to abuse this lose their spellbook, but not spell-completion/trigger items, and would this happen but the caster still living?

I've only ever heard of this being a really niche feat and fulfilling prerequisites. There are so few ways to steal a spellbook in a way where you couldn't just kill the caster, and make sure they don't have access to spell-trigger items, and make sure they don't have access to copies.

I'm also still amazed just how much support Halfling Jinx got in feats.

[Tanuki Tales]

Perhaps you could put Squire as a Tier 3 feat and have it so you can pay more points at level 7 to upgrade it to Leadership.

I don't think Leadership, as is, should really ever be allowed. I'm more likely to simply add a note concerning its cost if that part is knocked off.

Most of these seem fine (or at least close enough), but Spell Mastery sticks out. There's really a few questions that should be asked?
How often does disappearing spellbooks come up in real game?
Should the cost really be the same no matter what level you pick up the feat? (I suspect not, because using it to pick up limited Wish as a backup is a completely different story than any first level spell.)
Would a caster high enough level to abuse this lose their spellbook, but not spell-completion/trigger items, and would this happen but the caster still living?

I've only ever heard of this being a really niche feat and fulfilling prerequisites. There are so few ways to steal a spellbook in a way where you couldn't just kill the caster, and make sure they don't have access to spell-trigger items, and make sure they don't have access to copies.

If it wasn't for Blood Money, I'd probably agree with all this. But they made they spell and it's ridiculously broken for a 1st level.

I'm also still amazed just how much support Halfling Jinx got in feats.

I know, right?

Edit:

Let's finish off the General Feats, shall we?

Tier 6

• Terrifying Mask - So niche.
• Torch Handling - Really niche.
• Tribe Mentality - One of the worst Teamwork feats yet.
• Urban Forager - This should be part of the rules.
• Valiant Steed - Can't be taken by PCs.
• Vandal (Goblin) - Unattended objects always get broken anyways.
• Variant Prayer-Scroll - How many PCs ever play a Jiang-shi?

Tier 5

• Team Pickpocket - Teamwork feat.
• Thoughtful Discernment - Bad feat is bad.
• Totem Spirit - Like people actually adhere to fluff requirements.
• Tribal Scars - See above.
• Ultimate Resolve - Meh.
• Uncanny Alertness - Bad feat is bad.
• Undermining Exploit - Niche, but underground is home to many an adventurer.
• Unsanctioned Detection - Not worth the trade off.
• Vermin Empathy - Niche.
• Vigilant Eidolon - Meh.
• Voice of the Sibyl - Meh.
• Walker Among Evil - Meh.
• Wall of Flesh (Teamwork) - Ugh...so bad.
• War Singer - Niche.
• Warrior Priest - Neat.
• Well-Prepared - Neat, but not terribly useful.
• Whip-Shot Deed (Grit) - Gunslinger feats keep being not worth a feat slot, more times than not.

Tier 4

• Theurgy - Might be tier 5.
• Ultimate Mercy - Pretty neat, but resource intensive.
• Vampiric Companion - Might be tier 5.
• Versatile Jinxer - More Halfling Jinx support!
• Wand Dancer - Discounted for prereqs.
• Wild Speech - I like this feat. This is a good feat.
• Witch Knife - Interesting and kind of useful.
• Word of Healing - Might be tier 3.

Tier 3

• Turn Undead - Decent feat.
• Uncanny Activation - This can get nasty with wands, but I don't know if it's broken.
• Undead Master - Might be tier 2.

Tier 2

• Tapestry Traveler - Long range teleportation can already be a game breaker by itself.
• Tenacious Transmutation - Transmutation is already the second strongest school of magic.
• Uncanny Concentration - Like Concentration checks weren't already trivial.

Tier 1

• Torchbearer - Oh look...another Squire feat.

[Kamai]

Totem Spirit: Initiative stacking seems like something that shouldn't be easy to do. For that alone, this feat might want to be T4.
Uncanny Activation: This is kinda broken, but not in the way that you're thinking. "Regardless, you can't increase an item's caster level to one that is higher than your own caster level." Either this is a pointless restriction, since you can probably emulate caster level "enough", or this makes the feat worthless to anyone who isn't a caster. Honestly, I can't tell which is the intended interaction. Otherwise, it's fine as a T3 feat, since these items are usually minimum caster level.
Undead Master: +16 HD is really nice, at least as nice as Augment Summoning.
Vampiric Companion: I think it should stay T4. It hands the companion immunity to mind-affecting, and for the lighter companions, if they get the d12 HD, could get decently tough out of that. Could an animal negative energy cleric pull off something stupid with this?
Wall of Flesh: 2 feats for +1 to CMD? That sounds pretty T6 to me.

[Tanuki Tales]

Totem Spirit: Initiative stacking seems like something that shouldn't be easy to do. For that alone, this feat might want to be T4.

It's just a +1 though.

Uncanny Activation: This is kinda broken, but not in the way that you're thinking. "Regardless, you can't increase an item's caster level to one that is higher than your own caster level." Either this is a pointless restriction, since you can probably emulate caster level "enough", or this makes the feat worthless to anyone who isn't a caster. Honestly, I can't tell which is the intended interaction. Otherwise, it's fine as a T3 feat, since these items are usually minimum caster level.

Wands you can increases to two higher max and I think the feat was intended to allow mimicking a caster level.

Undead Master: +16 HD is really nice, at least as nice as Augment Summoning.

Undead aren't as cheap or powerful as Summoned monsters though, except in certain situations. And they're a lot easier to deal with and are something the default setting is prepared to deal with. We'll still make it Tier 2 because of AE breaking.

Vampiric Companion: I think it should stay T4. It hands the companion immunity to mind-affecting, and for the lighter companions, if they get the d12 HD, could get decently tough out of that. Could an animal negative energy cleric pull off something stupid with this?

Only a Dhampir or a Vampire can use this feat. It's not something that will really ever see play.

Wall of Flesh: 2 feats for +1 to CMD? That sounds pretty T6 to me.

Point. And now we get to move onto combat feats! I wonder how many are Tier 5 or lower, cause I seriously doubt we'll have more than 3 that are higher than tier 3 (if that).

Edit:

Here are As and Bs.


Tier 6

• Armor Proficiency, Heavy - I can't, in good conscience, make this tier 5. In fact, learning armor and weapons should be a skill based thing and not even require a feat.
• Armor Proficiency, Light - See above.
• Armor Proficiency, Medium - See above.

Tier 5

• Advanced Defensive Combat Training - Ignoring the fluff requirement, this might be tier 4. Maybe more, seeing as CMD scales far faster than CMB.
• Agile Maneuvers - This should be part of the rules.
• Amateur Gunslinger - Might be tier 4, though I can't remember any great gunslinger deeds.
• Ammo Drop - Niche.
• Ankle Biter - Meh feat.
• Arc Slinger - Niche.
• Arcane Armor Training - Full casters have better use for their swift actions and would never be wearing much armor in the first place. And any they would be wearing would be mithril.
• Arcane Strike - This is actually pretty neat, but not much.
• Archon Diversion - Monk.
• Archon Style - Monk.
• Back to Back - Didn't we already do this one?
• Banishing Critical - A Full caster is never taking this.
• Banner of Doom - Really niche, might be tier 6.
• Bashing Finish - So feat intensive.
• Bear Hug - Meh.
• Beartrap Bite - This is a kind of neat feat, but don't were-bears already get Improved Grab?
• Betraying Blow - Niche and would be better if it had no cap.
• Binding Throw - Monk.
• Blade Binder - Niche.
• Blazing Aura - The damage is nothing to write home about.
• Bleeding Attack - Easy to qualify for, but the damage is nothing to write home about.
• Bleeding Critical - Procs rarely and applies a debuff that's trivial to get rid of.
• Blinding Critical - This feat is crap.
• Blinding Flash - See..this would be useful if you could use it as part of an attack routine (like giving up an attack to do it). Not worth a move action.
• Blistering Feint - Niche and fire damage is the worst in the game.
• Bloody Assault - This is crap and doesn't stack with itself. I'd rather have a +1 weapon enchantment that just deals bleeding damage.
• Bloody Vengeance - Even though this stacks, it's still crap.
• Bludgeoner - Niche.
• Boar Ferocity - Might be tier 4.
• Boar Style - The fact that only a Monk can use this properly at the level it's intended to be accessible makes it tier 5.
• Body Shield - Neat, but feat intensive.
• Bodyguard - Meh.
• Bonebreaker - Holy crap that's feat intensive. Wizards can do this with a single spell.
• Bounding Hammer - A feat let's you be Thor and replaces an expensive weapon enchantment? Why thank you Paizo!
• Break Guard - Meh.
• Brutal Grappler - Meh.
• Bull Rush Strike - Requires a critical to proc and not amazing anyways.
• Bullseye Shot - Niche and might be tier 4.
• Bullying Blow - This might be tier 4.
• Catch Off-guard - Nothing really interesting about this feat.
• Cautious Fighter - Oh, hey, look, an arbitrary racial limitation (most of them are anyways). This is better than Dodge and may be tier 4.
• Chain-flail Master - No clue how good this feat is.
• Channel Smite - Did we do this one already? It's niche anyways.
• Charge of the Righteous - Niche, but does apply to two of the most common enemy types, so not tier 6.
• Charge Through - Giving mundanes things to do with their free actions is always nice. Might be tier 4.
• Charging Hurler - Doing this sounds like a bad idea.
• Chokehold - Monk.
• Claw Pounce - Really niche way to get pounce.
• Cleave - Nice at low levels, but outdone by both Great Cleave and a full attack routine at later levels.
• Cleaving Finish - If this feat had a better cap on it, I could see it argued as being tier 4, if not tier 3.
• Close-Quarters Thrower - Meh.
• Cloven Helm - Meh.
• Cockatrice Strike - This feat is awful.
• Combat Expertise - Bad feat is bad.
• Combat Style Master - Monk.
• Coordinated Maneuvers - Teamwork feat.
• Cornugon Shield - Meh.
• Cornugon Smash -This is nice. Giving mundanes nice things to do with the action economy is great.
• Cornugon Stun - Monk.
• Cornugon Trip - Only a fool throws his weapon.
• Crippling Critical - This feat is terrible.
• Crossbow Mastery - Neat, but not terribly useful.
• Crusader's Fist - Why?
• Crushing Blow - Monk.
• Covering Defense - Nice, but not terribly so.
• Critical Focus - It's not like you take a penalty on critical hits. You either got lucky and scored a crit threat and thus this feat barely improves your odds, or you have enough attack bonus already to confirm a crit threat.
• Darting Viper - I don't know the weapon, but this doesn't feel more than tier 5 to me.
• Deafening Critical - This critical feats continue to suck.
• Deadly Stroke - Holy crap this is feat intensive.
• Death or Glory - The feat is named aptly.
• Deathless Initiate - Discounted for crap prereq feat.
• Deathless Master - See above.
• Deathless Zealot - See above.
• Deflect Arrows - Monk.
• Demoralizing Lash - Bad feat is bad.
• Dented Helm - Neat, but not very useful.
• Dervish Dance - Niche.
• Desperate Battler - Bad feat is bad.
• Desperate Swing - Bad feat is bad.
• Destroyer's Blessing - Kind of neat.
• Devastating Strike - A whole 6 damage? Whoop-dee-doo.
• Disarming Strike - Meh.
• Disengaging Feint - Neat, but not amazing. Might be tier 4.
• Disengaging Shot - Nice, but very feat intensive.
• Disorienting Blow - Monk.
• Disrupting Shot - Like that +4 really matters.
• Distance Thrower - Meh.
• Double Slice - TWF needs the love.
• Drag Down - Might be tier 4.
• Drunken Brawler - Neat, but not terribly useful.
• Dueling Mastery - Niche.
• Duelist - Niche.
• Great Cleave - When you've got good reach, there are more enemies than your iterative attacks and they're all adjacent, this feat is better than doing a full attack routine or trying to invest in the Spring Attack or Whirlwind attack chains. It invalidates Cleave as a feat though and can be a little niche, so I say it's tier 5.
• Improved Disarm - They nerfed most combat maneuvers.
• Sickening Critical - This should have stacked with itself.
• Staggering Critical - Useful, but gained so late and isn't terribly likely to proc.
• Tiring Critical - If this made fatigued creatures go exhausted, it'd be nicer.

Tier 4

• Blind-Fight - Miss chances are so common at mid to late levels, along with invisible attackers, that this is tier 4.
• Blundering Defense - This would be more useful if it had better range.
• Boar Shred - Large amount of Bleed damage that is not mentioned as not stacking. Nice.
• Broken Wing Gambit - One of the more useful Teamwork feats.
• Cleave Through - See, if this could be gotten earlier, I might have made it tier 3.
• Clustered Shots - This might just be tier 3, if only because DR is literally the bane of archery. Actually, maybe it should be tier 5 because of that.
• Combat Patrol - This feat is honestly pretty great. I'm finding that I want to purposely under-tier feats that give mundanes nice things though.
• Combat Reflexes - This feat gets taken pretty often.
• Coordinated Defense - Teamwork feat, but CMD already scales faster than CMB.
• Critical Mastery - Nice, but might be tier 5.
• Critical Versatility - Fighters should be able to change all their feats daily, but this is definitely better than each individual critical feat.
• Dastardly Finish - Nice, but still damage.
• Dazing Assault - Might be tier 3, but I want to give mundanes nice things.
• Dazzling Display - Nice, but not tier 3 nice.
• Deadly Aim - Ranged Power Attack ftw.
• Death from Above - Nice.
• Dodge - Might be tier 5.
• Exhausting Critical - A more useful Critical feat, but might still be tier 5.
• Improved Critical - A commonly taken feat when a Keen weapon can't be obtained.

Tier 3

• Deadly Finish - It's a SoD. I'd love to make it tier 4 though, but SoD can break the game balance.
• Demon Hunter - Restricting this to just demons is why it's tier 3.
• Greater Dirty Trick - I don't know how good this combat maneuver is.
• Greater Drag - See above.
• Improved Dirty Trick - See above.
• Improved Drag - See above.
  

Tier 2

• Defensive Combat Training - Sorry Rogues, but this is just too good a feat for casters.
  

Surprise, Surprise; nothing above Tier 4.

Edit Edit:

C's (and some others) added.

Edit Edit Edit:

Ds (and some others) added.

[Tanuki Tales]

Going to give about eight more hours for feedback before I move things from the To Do list to the Tier list. I want to get the first part of this project done sooner than later.