Shadowrun Returns: Dragonfall

[BRC]

Soo, anybody playing it? I am, and having a blast too.

I never actually got around to beating Dead Man's Trigger

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Going up against the Insect Spirits as a rigger basically meant I was short a bug zapper gun, since keeping my drones out dropped me to 1 AP a turn

But Dragonfall has been really fun so far. Has anybody else been playing it? I went with a Mage this time around.

[Calemyr]

Dead Man Trigger's pretty amusing. Very frustrating, too, as the last few encounters force you to rely on an untyped shotgun rather than your weapon of choice. The things you go through for what amounts to a pittance given the trouble you go through in chasing it. If he weren't already dead, I woulda shot the man myself.

Haven't gotten Dragonfall yet. I plan to tonight.

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Yeah, I had the same problem. I ended up switching to one drone (to keep the damage up). Very frustrating, especially given how useful the drones are as a rule... Still, 2 AP is almost useful, and one S-class assault drone can dish out a lot of punishment.

[Driderman]

Been playing the introduction a couple of times and it seems very promising I have to say. Hopefully my rig will function long enough for me to complete it.

[Morty]

Dead Man's Switch was pretty fun, yes, although I didn't finish the last missions either. Having to use the custom shotgun is annoying, as is the lack of saving during missions. I might get Dragonfall, but not anytime soon, and now I wish I'd got SR through GOG.com in the first place. None of the fan-made campaigns managed to captivate my attention.

[BRC]

Dragonfall introduced saving anytime, which is nice.

My thoughts so far

1) This time around you have a set team of runners. You can also hire mercenary runners, but it seems pointless when you can use the base team for free. This team has some really fun characterization and backstory to them. Plus they seem to have a few unique abilities
Note: Dietrich's Dragonslayer Icon spell is really good, don't be shy about using it.

2) Maybe it's just because I'm more familiar with Shadowrun's seattle, but I think Dragonfall might have benefited from a bit more worldbuilding. There's lots of talk about the Berlin Flux State without ever going into what exactly the Flux State IS. I was several hours in, having heard about someplace called the "SOX" several times before being told it was a radioactive wasteland caused by a reactor meltdown. All the proper nouns being in German dosn't help much either. Adding in some sort of Glossary of terms would have been very helpful.

[Mikeavelli]

I was really lucky with the Last Mission, I'd picked a mage for my first runner, maxed out my chosen path, and knew I wasn't going to have enough points to get another one up to the point where those points would be worthwhile.

So, I started grabbing random gun skills. Turned out that was the only way to actual contribute to the last mission.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Ah, I need to finish Dead Man's Switch! I've only gotten up to

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infiltrating the cult's compound.

I plan on going for Dragonfall once it comes out on Android, I think.

[Morty]

As far as I could see, your skill doesn't really matter with the Plot-Required Shotgun. It's annoying all the same, though. Of course, I didn't finish the finale, so it's possible it gets worse later.

Another thing I've seen people complain about is that decking only becomes useful at certain points, and is useless in quite a few missions.

[Illieas]

I going to get it.

I liked dead man switch.

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I found that rigger seem a little strong.
what is with not letting you get two S attack drones? I understand it is probably balence but it feels abitrary in game because i could run a S attack drone and a A attack drone.

THe insect thing was dumb. especially because they revive too quickly so it is worse than D&D troll whackamole. if they made it so one shot kills rather than needing something like 4 shots. it would have been less infuriating.

[BRC]

I going to get it.

I liked dead man switch.

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I found that rigger seem a little strong.
what is with not letting you get two S attack drones? I understand it is probably balence but it feels abitrary in game because i could run a S attack drone and a A attack drone.

THe insect thing was dumb. especially because they revive too quickly so it is worse than D&D troll whackamole. if they made it so one shot kills rather than needing something like 4 shots. it would have been less infuriating.

DMS

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Rigger was powerful, but I didn't find it all that fun.

All the other classes had all sorts of nifty tricks to use. Rapid shots and kneecaps and stuff.

With my Drones it was just "Move Drone, Shoot with Drone, Repeat". Powerful yes, but boring.

Bug Whackamole at the end was a decent idea, but I can understand why it's the way it is. Riggers were a late edition, and any other character type will probably do fine at the end.
As it was, if Harlequin or Random Tir Tangere Commando Dude were not both standing perfectly ready to blast, the Bug would revive. Meanwhile my poor Rigger only had one action a round with which to get into position.
I was pretty good at killing the bugs quickly, but I would frequently need to kill them three or four times each before I could make it stick.

[Cikomyr]

Been playing Dragonfall, and I have to agree it's solid. I already loved the original campaign (except the final boss fight, which screwed everything for me), and Dragonfall is a solid build from there.

It has strong vibes of the Baldur's Gate plot where you have to accumulate a large sum of money to progress, and thus the 2nd act is about doing all of these side jobs with their own little stories and complications. A true great Shadowrun game, where they mingled the need for side quests runs with a good central story progressively revealing itself.

[Kesnit]

I'm stuck in DMS.

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I'm in the corporation's HQ, but can't keep my team alive long enough to let the decker do his thing. Or (in one attempt), the decker died in the Matrix.

[Driderman]

I'm loving this game more and more, even after having playing through the introduction 3 times now due to my computer being horribly dying. Hopefully, Dragonfall will put a bit more spark into the creative community, I kinda wish I had the time to teach myself how to create a module, but between work, wife and studies I feel kinda pressed for time.

I wonder if people here would be interested in a community project? We certainly have several Shadowrun pen & paper players here, might be possibly to build a project of some kind.
Ah, one can dream...

[Cikomyr]

I'm loving this game more and more, even after having playing through the introduction 3 times now due to my computer being horribly dying. Hopefully, Dragonfall will put a bit more spark into the creative community, I kinda wish I had the time to teach myself how to create a module, but between work, wife and studies I feel kinda pressed for time.

I wonder if people here would be interested in a community project? We certainly have several Shadowrun pen & paper players here, might be possibly to build a project of some kind.
Ah, one can dream...

How hard is it to create modules? Maps, etc?

[Brother Oni]

2) Maybe it's just because I'm more familiar with Shadowrun's seattle, but I think Dragonfall might have benefited from a bit more worldbuilding. There's lots of talk about the Berlin Flux State without ever going into what exactly the Flux State IS. I was several hours in, having heard about someplace called the "SOX" several times before being told it was a radioactive wasteland caused by a reactor meltdown. All the proper nouns being in German dosn't help much either. Adding in some sort of Glossary of terms would have been very helpful.

I have some familiarity with German so the proper nouns didn't faze me, nor did the fact that they tended to cycle in and out of German and its literal English translation.

I think it's an issue of prior knowledge. Although I haven't read the Berlin source book, I've read enough of the novels to get an idea of what happened to Germany after the Awakening.
For someone who's actually played in the Flux State, this would all be common knowledge.


Speaking of Dragonfall, I've found a glitch already for the Loose Ends run:

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After opening the door to the dwarf's cell but before talking to him, don't let the basilisks out. The dwarf becomes a party member and you lose the rest of the dialogue, with the mission resulting in mediocre performance and an arsey email from the client.

On the plus side, the glitch has allowed me to find out about a fantastic new feature called 'rewind game'. When loading up a save game, you can rewind to certain key plot points and play from there, thus if your autosave has unexpectedly kicked in, you don't lose too much (I went back to the beginning of the the run instead of my previous save point nearly 2hrs earlier).

You can now also save whenever you like from the options menu, which is something I sorely missed from pre-Dragonfall SRR.

I wonder if people here would be interested in a community project? We certainly have several Shadowrun pen & paper players here, might be possibly to build a project of some kind.

You don't want me anywhere near a GITP SR project - I'm only familiar with 2nd Ed, which is very different beast from later versions and especially SRR.

[huttj509]

I have some familiarity with German so the proper nouns didn't faze me, nor did the fact that they tended to cycle in and out of German and its literal English translation.

I think it's an issue of prior knowledge. Although I haven't read the Berlin source book, I've read enough of the novels to get an idea of what happened to Germany after the Awakening.
For someone who's actually played in the Flux State, this would all be common knowledge.

I think some sort of glossary would have been good. It can be difficult to find a balance between "who fell into the what now?" and "Yes, I know all this already, you don't need to tell me again, it's not something they'd feel the need to say to a runner who's been living there!"

[Cikomyr]

You don't want me anywhere near a GITP SR project - I'm only familiar with 2nd Ed, which is very different beast from later versions and especially SRR.

Hey. The modular nature of SR Returns makes it easy for cooperative contributions. Some of us can just design a Run Scenario if they feel like it, while others can do the main plot.

[Cikomyr]

I just reached the final levels.

Holy Crap. I litteraly went 0_0 when I say The Reveal

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YOU USE A DRAGON AS YOUR PLAGUE CARRIER?!?!

[Ashtar]

I just finished the game in two sittings. I really loved it, so many choices to take. I'm really curious to hear what (if anything) happens when you make other choices.

I'll probably try to run again through with a Mage / Shaman and choose the "other" choices.

I enjoyed the interaction with the other runners a lot.

[Cikomyr]

Damn it. I hate when games makes you question yourself and make big choices regarding your character.

The final conversation.

the bloody final conversation, goddamnit.

I agonized over 10 minutes over my final decision. It had absolutely no impact on the game, it was purely about roleplay.

And damnit, I am still hoping I made the right choice.

[thorgrim29]

I just finished it as basically a rigger with good rifle skills and high charisma. Liked it a lot, it was much more engaging then DMS, and I approve of all the gameplay changes. I liked the small touches in the main area a lot, especially the goblinoid support group and the turkish coffee guy. Also Algernon is apparently at 2 places at once since Dragonfall happens roughly at the same time as DMS.

I liked the runners a lot, Diedritch and Glory are both super interesting, Eiger and the decker slightly less so but they're not bad

And yeah, a codex would have been nice, for example I have no idea who the Lodge or cyberpunk wikileaks are and why it is or not a good idea to work for them


In the end I decided to:

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free the AI and give it control of the dragon. I also decided to start working for Lofwyr. My reasoning is that if APEX goes off the reservation the great dragon is probably the only thing able to keep it in check, and vice versa. Following what "totally not Lofwyr in person" guy told me, I'm wondering if freeing the dragon might not have been the better choice though

[Cespenar]

Damn it. I hate when games makes you question yourself and make big choices regarding your character.

Ever played The Walking Dead, or The Wolf Among Us?

[Driderman]

I really love how the "correct/best" responses to some of the more "damaged" NPCs aren't immediately obvious. The writing in this game is really good.

[Brother Oni]

I think some sort of glossary would have been good. It can be difficult to find a balance between "who fell into the what now?" and "Yes, I know all this already, you don't need to tell me again, it's not something they'd feel the need to say to a runner who's been living there!"

I agree some sort of glossary would be good, but one issue I found is that for people who like to read up about stuff before getting into the game properly, you often get inadvertent spoilers from the entries and sometimes even that the entry is in the glossary in the first place, eg. Feuerschwinge.

Coding in a dynamic glossary may have been outside the resources of the team to get Dragonfall out on schedule.

I really love how the "correct/best" responses to some of the more "damaged" NPCs aren't immediately obvious. The writing in this game is really good.

I like Dietrich's response to a question about his musical past:

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"I was the front man for a punk band. **** no, I can't sing."

[Kesnit]

You can now also save whenever you like from the options menu, which is something I sorely missed from pre-Dragonfall SRR.

Just to clarify... Getting Dragonfall lets you save anywhere in DMS?

[Driderman]

Just to clarify... Getting Dragonfall lets you save anywhere in DMS?

Actually, the original game should be patched so you can save everywhere regardless of whether you own Dragonfall or not. I hear rumours it's still a bit buggy though, something about the quicksave being unreliable. For my part, I lost my saves once but I'm not sure whether it was due to a patch or similiar (seemed like content had been patched), due to my computer being really screwy (I've had issues with savegames disappearing before) or due to the mechanic being buggy.

[Calemyr]

I'm at the "storming the castle" stage of the game. Feels like the end of the game, but I only recently got to 3 AP, so I'm guessing I'm closer to 3/4s in.

I played a charismatic gunslinger/decker known as Snapshot. It's been quite effective for the most part. He's probably the most potent member on the team. If I were to play it again (and I likely will), I'd probably drop the "decker" portion and focus more heavily on charisma, as charisma proved a more make-or-break skill*. Besides, the team decker is surprisingly good - both in the matrix and out.

*(Decking gave me conversation options, but they rarely changed the outcome of the conversation. Charisma, on the other hand, let me avoid fights altogether. Since the Karma system doesn't reward you for fights, just for deeds, there's really no point to getting into fights when you don't have to. Better to save your limited resources for important battles.)

Here are my thoughts on the party: (minor spoilers)

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Deitrich: If there was anyone in this game I would never leave home without, it's this guy. Every one of his spells proved very useful. Haste and Accuracy made my fighters more effective, an AoE for when the enemies bunch up, and heal is NEVER a bad spell to have handy. But what really made him awesome was the Dragonslayer Icon: an aura that reduces all incoming damage to allies in range by 3? That alone often made him the team MVP. The only annoyance with Deit is that he usually starts with his attack spell equipped, when I have found I get far better results from his throwing weapon.

Glory: Glory is my other go-to ally. Her damage potential isn't as high as my gunslinger, but those claws and that adrenal pump are powerful advantages. She's not horrible with a pistol, either, but it usually wasn't as effective as her claws unless she was fighting something that had an on-death AoE. Having a medic on the team is always nice, as well, because of the heal spell's limitations.

Eiger: I didn't use Eiger much, and I feel bad about that. Unfortunately, she just never struck me as that good. Her rifle would be great at obscene ranges but, at the ranges most encounters are at, it's a liability. And her shotgun is shorter range than pistols and smgs and is far more prone to friendly fire. Really, I only wish I could have used her the way Monicka does: as a proper sniper, providing overwatch while the team makes their run.

Blitz: I honestly didn't expect much from this guy, given his role as the "utilitarian" asset. I figured he was just a weak substitute in case your character isn't a decker and Monicka is unavailable. I was wrong. It took me a while to come around, but I'm a beliver in the Blitz. Besides being a solid decker, he's handy with an SMG and is capable of shredding soft targets at a rate that even Glory has difficulty matching. If you manage to find and repair his drone (the broken drone in the hotel vault), he's also a halfways decent rigger, giving him a viable option against hardened targets as well. He's also the most amusing ally to me (Deitrich comes in a close second, but Blitz's sheer joy during the MKVI mission clinches it in favor of the decker). Blitz is definitely my go-to third for the party.

Dante: Dante makes me wish - really wish - there was room for a fifth party member. The big dog is a monster in melee, dwarfing Glory even when including the adrenal pump, and he is really scary when he gets mad. To top it off, his lack of equipment isn't a big deal since you can't control the gear of any of your allies anyway. In the end, however, he just can't beat Glory for utility (mainly because Glory is a handy medic) and can't talk and thus isn't likely to add much to the banter in a mission. (Though I do have to admit I wonder if he has fire resistance - that could have been handy in the later missions.)

Mercs: I never used them. I did, however, notice that they were the same few options every time. Maybe they have their own personalities and interjections during the mission? Don't know. As I said, I never tried. I already had more free allies than I could use, why would I pay money for generic substitute? The idea of using them in "no medivac" missions would make sense: if your party can legitimately die in a mission, why risk your friends?

Here are the actions and consequences I've seen so far: (spoiler heavy)

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Blitz: When his ex tells him to back off, don't encourage him to go help her. He botches a 5-year op in the process and alienates her.

Glory: Heard Glory's story. Convinced her to go save the kids after the game. No idea if that's the right call.

Eiger: Eiger likes me. No idea if that means much. At least she's not likely to betray me.

Deitrich: Talked Deitrich into considering more abstract dragons to hunt in the future, including possibly teaching the youth the lessons he had to learn the hard way. Apparently the Dragonslayer likes the idea, meaning that the punk prince of awesome isn't necessarily headed towards a grisly death.

Dante: I was nice to Dante and took him with me whenever I walked the kiev on non-mission tasks. The big dog obviously remembered I was his friend after he started breathing fire, as he remained my loyal hound despite my having the willpower score of a piece of paper.

Sam: If you help the civic-minded goblinoid near the northern subway entrance, donating the money to complete all his goals before taking on Bloodline, his new shelter will be open before the fecal material hits the rotary impeller. Sam states that a lot of citizens (including Silke and Alexander if you help them) would have died in the assault on the kiev if they'd been out on the street or in their old shelter.

Silke: Talking the girl into kicking her cram habit and going to Sam for help is very good for her. She gets over her addiction and states she plans to sign on with Sam to help others. Shadowrunners rarely get happy endings to their deeds.

Alexander: I saved the boy, Deitrich sent him to live with Sam to help him get over his anti-goblinoid brainwashing. He's having trouble with it all, but making progress.

Loose Ends: Tried to save the rigger. Wish I had just shot the dwarf on sight like I was supposed to - if anything I only wish I had had access to a larger caliber pistol when I found out what kind of sick monster he actually was. I feel I should have had some way to smooth things over with the corp.

Spoiler: How I would have RPed it in a pen and paper session.

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"You corps lie and cheat us Runners all the time. You lied about the rigger being a Runner, for starters. So did I buy his story that you weren't playing straight with us? Yes. So I tried to extract him, get him out before the interrogators got him to spill his guts - which I point out was your stated concern. But this giggling little sadist doesn't deserve saving and, since you're here, now would be a good time to make a point: I *blam* don't *blam* like *blam* being *blam* lied *blam* to *blam*. Period *blam* *reload*. There. One dead rigger, as requested. Next time you go fishing for "honor" in the Shadows, try using a little "honesty". It makes better bait."

MKVI: I let Glory remove the inhibitor from MKVI at the end, to which the cyberzombie promptly thanked me and killed himself. Pissed off two clients (the original and the Lodge), but I filled the contract. Everyone on the team, however, was happy with the outcome.

The Lodge: I should have never bothered to talk to Luca. I failed every mission he gave me. Every bloody one. Mainly because he kept requiring me to do betray my clients and spare people who were begging to get shot. They probably would be less angry at me if I never bothered to return their call.

Apex: Freeing Apex was never an easy conclusion, but I wanted to give it a chance. I haven't won yet, so circumstances are likely to change, but I'm beginning to think it was as bad an idea as it originally sounded. She held up her side of the bargain: the security in the manor was compromised at every turn. When she came back online, however, she made it very clear that she is pretty much the antithesis of Monicka, caring for the system rather than the people and now having far too much power to fear any opposition.

Avenues I think I missed out on:

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The stim-sense junkie by the dragonslayer monument: Talked to her a bit, but not really enough before things went south. Afterwards she wasn't there. I wonder if I would have been able to direct her to Sam if I talked to her more, the way I did with Silke. She might have survived, then. It's a mark of a good game when you find yourself genuinely wondering if you could have saved some random druggie.

Laine: Another kiev citzen that vanished before I finished talking to him. Again, I don't know if there was any resolution for him, but I know that I missed it if it existed. Shame.

The hypnotic elf at the mage shop: As I said, I have the willpower score of paper - and probably not high grade paper at that. I have to wonder if being able to overcome her hypnosis would have had any actual consequence.

Alice: If I had my decking skills up to 4 before talking to her the first time, it looks like I might have had the opportunity to find something out about her. Missing that opportunity is what led me to add a focus on decking for the rest of the game.

[Cikomyr]

Regarding the elven girl with weird eyes

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I resisted her influence, but then told her to **** off, and she never talked to me until the end of the game.

she makes a prophecy regarding the actions you took in the end. It's cryptic enough, but still interesting. Apparently, people are going to come to rue my decisions on this night, but also revere it.

Yhea, I DID give a dragonpower to a loose AI.

Also, I have something you say regarding your assessment of APEX

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While I agree that she isn't Monika, I don't think Monika would have wanted an all-powerful AI to be like her. You can easily see the sort of impact Monika had on the street; she was a caring, interpersonal individual who helped lost souls get their act together.

An AI will never be able to do that. But the AI can create a set a circumstances and context where decent people have a chance to help and support each other.

Basically, it's my feeling that APEX either :

- wants to protect a system where decent people can step up and do the right thing for the little people without the interloping of powers like Corps, the Lodge or others. You need to protect F-State if you want other Monikas to step up and see the day.

- Really screwed me over and used its knowledge of Monika's brain to project my feelings for her onto APEX, so I would free it. Remember that Monika wasn't just a Messiah Archetype, she was also a very, very sharp judge of character.

I really want to believe the 1st one, but I am aware the 2nd one it possible as well. This is why I joined up with the new employer at the end; I want to keep close tab on APEX and make sure it holds its end of the bargain, but still have the opportunities to protect it if I feel it's actually doing the right thing.

And it's a credit to the writing team to have created so much great and ambivalent characters and situations.

[Calemyr]

Never mind. I think it's just because my Dead Man's Switch campaign was modded. There are a good number more options for weapons and cybertech, but not the ones listed in the mod descriptions. Ignore me. IGNORE ME!

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Something odd about my install that I thought I'd check with people about:

When I downloaded Dragonfall, I got a version that is labeled as "Custom", and states it includes three mods I had downloaded previously: a modified version of Dead Man's Switch, the Street Samurai Catalog and Adept Tattoos. I've found a lot of the weapons and cyberware from Street Samurai Catlog and I never went looking for the tattoos (Algernon was probably my source for that) because I wasn't playing a mage - cyberware was fine with me.

So my question to you folks is, has this happened to anyone else? If so, were there any other mods included in the "modified content" list? The idea of a company actually incorporating modded content into their game (and giving proper credit where due) is an interesting one. Unless of course, it's just built on the original campaign and the modified version I use of DMS is also impacting Dragonfall...

[Kesnit]

Actually, the original game should be patched so you can save everywhere regardless of whether you own Dragonfall or not.

YEAH!!!

I've had to run through Telestrian Industries so many times (and never succeeded) because I could never get tactics that worked all the way through. Being able to save once something worked so I didn't have to do it again (and maybe not work) might actually let me get through there!