Fire Emblem Thread II: Stalwarts Unite!

[Jermell]

Monolith also put out Baten Kaitos, which I'd consider one of the strongest games on the gamecube. It's a name with some weight behind it.

Now HERE's a guy with good taste. I hate that I mention Baten Kaitos and everyone just gives me blank stares.


Also I doubt Chrom will be a playable character though he and Lucina may be alternate skins for Marth.

[Sylthia]

Now HERE's a guy with good taste. I hate that I mention Baten Kaitos and everyone just gives me blank stares.


Also I doubt Chrom will be a playable character though he and Lucina may be alternate skins for Marth.

I'd be surprised if Chrom made it in now, but wasn't Awakening the most successful FE to date?

[chiasaur11]

I'd be surprised if Chrom made it in now, but wasn't Awakening the most successful FE to date?

By a huge margin.

I wouldn't think Chrom and Lu would both be skins for Marth, but Chrom for Ike and Lucy for Marth I could see.

And maybe the Avatar for the third slot. Second most popular female character, third for the male version, lot of non-sword abilities so they wouldn't feel redundant.

[Laughing Dog]

*grumbles*
Been playing Radiant Dawn with the save data carried over from my latest PoR run. Any character you level-capped in PoR gets an extra 5 hp in RD. Furthermore, if the level-capped character had any stats capped, they get a +2 to that stat in RD. Except Sothe. He gets either the boosted stats or his old ones, which ever is higher. The problem I'm having? I just realized that I could have taken Tauroneo's Resolve skill, handed the scroll Ilyana and then have Ike equip it. It definitely would have made the first rematch w/BK much more interesting. Unless Nihil negates that as well. Crap. Never mind.

Also, on the topic of the Avatar being a playable character: Do you think they'd have Morgan be an alternate skin?

[Sylthia]

*grumbles*
Been playing Radiant Dawn with the save data carried over from my latest PoR run. Any character you level-capped in PoR gets an extra 5 hp in RD. Furthermore, if the level-capped character had any stats capped, they get a +2 to that stat in RD. Except Sothe. He gets either the boosted stats or his old ones, which ever is higher. The problem I'm having? I just realized that I could have taken Tauroneo's Resolve skill, handed the scroll Ilyana and then have Ike equip it. It definitely would have made the first rematch w/BK much more interesting. Unless Nihil negates that as well. Crap. Never mind.

Also, on the topic of the Avatar being a playable character: Do you think they'd have Morgan be an alternate skin?

Possibly. I guess they'd go the Animal Crossing Villager route and have a bunch of random skins that looked like possible options for the Avatar.

[Mando Knight]

Unless Nihil negates that as well. Crap. Never mind.

Nihil negates everything that isn't Nihil or Mantle.

[Zevox]

IKE IS BACK!
Now the question is does that mean that Chrom won't be a playable character.

Doubtful. With Awakening having been as popular as it was, and particularly with it having basically saved the series from extinction, including a newcomer from it is a very obvious move to make, and Chrom being the main character makes him the obvious candidate. Unless they for some reason decided both that Fire Emblem couldn't have three playable characters and Ike wasn't worth replacing with a newcomer from Awakening, which seems pretty unlikely, Chrom is probably going to be in.

Plus there is one potentially-legitimate "leak" floating around, and it includes him as one of the newcomers, so there's that.

Re: Alternate outfits - I think Lucina and Roy would both be good candidates to be alternates for Marth, both for pretty obvious reasons. Don't know about Ike or Chrom, though.

[Jermell]

I wonder if they're going to update Ike's moveset. I mean a strong but fairly slow character with a long reach fits RD Ike perfectly so that doesn't need changing. Blue flames would be more accurate this time around though.

[Sam cw]

So... I just got Lucina and since she's the Avatar's daughter I'm spoiled for choice on how to re-class her. I've been thinking Myrmidon->Swordmaster for Astra and Sword Faire to abuse Rightful King and the Parallel Falchion, but I'm sorely tempted to have her go through ten levels of Tactician just for Veteran. Thoughts, alternate ideas? (She already has Galeforce and this is Lunatic, so avoiding breaking the game in half is not a concern).

[Rising Phoenix]

So... I just got Lucina and since she's the Avatar's daughter I'm spoiled for choice on how to re-class her. I've been thinking Myrmidon->Swordmaster for Astra and Sword Faire to abuse Rightful King and the Parallel Falchion, but I'm sorely tempted to have her go through ten levels of Tactician just for Veteran. Thoughts, alternate ideas? (She already has Galeforce and this is Lunatic, so avoiding breaking the game in half is not a concern).

In the Lunatic Modes, Luna is arguably the best straight out offensive skill.

At lower difficulties every skill is good (well most)

[Sam cw]

In the Lunatic Modes, Luna is arguably the best straight out offensive skill.

At lower difficulties every skill is good (well most)

Really? Luna? It seems like everything in Lunatic gets its toughness from tons of HP, not Defense. Or loads of Speed to prevent doubles.

[Rising Phoenix]

Really? Luna? It seems like everything in Lunatic gets its toughness from tons of HP, not Defense. Or loads of Speed to prevent doubles.

Counter, Pavise and Aegis will be your bane especially in Lunatic+. You want to kill your enemy with as few attacks as possible to conserve your HP and astra will grant you a slow painful death via counter.

Also Defense and HP are more important in Lunatic than speed though you still want it to be as high as possible of course.

[Laughing Dog]

Does anyone know if the games all use the same calendar? If so, then that may very well mean that the Tellius-based ones happend first. See the spoiler for reasoning.

Spoiler: Reasoning

Show

Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn happen from approximately (this off the top of my head, mind) yrs. 645-649
Geneaologies and Thracia 776 happen (obviously) in the 760s and 770s.
If I recall the Date of Sacred Stones, it was somewhere between yrs 800 & 900
Shadow Dragon and (thus Mystery of the Emblem) are implied to have happened centuries after Geneaologies.
Gaiden was supposed to have happened at the same time as Shadow Dragon.
I don't recall what years Blazing Sword and Sealed sword occuyred (by the in-game calendar).
Awakening was approximately 2000 years after The events of Shadow dragon.

If they are all using the same calendar, that means Priam is a mind-numbing number of generations descended from Ike. It also means that the continuity under went severe technological degredation. I mean they went from using Ballistae, Crossbows, and Onagers to just Ballistae to absolutely none of what they originally had.

[Rising Phoenix]

Does anyone know if the games all use the same calendar? If so, then that may very well mean that the Tellius-based ones happend first. See the spoiler for reasoning.

Spoiler: Reasoning

Show

Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn happen from approximately (this off the top of my head, mind) yrs. 645-649
Geneaologies and Thracia 776 happen (obviously) in the 760s and 770s.
If I recall the Date of Sacred Stones, it was somewhere between yrs 800 & 900
Shadow Dragon and (thus Mystery of the Emblem) are implied to have happened centuries after Geneaologies.
Gaiden was supposed to have happened at the same time as Shadow Dragon.
I don't recall what years Blazing Sword and Sealed sword occuyred (by the in-game calendar).
Awakening was approximately 2000 years after The events of Shadow dragon.

If they are all using the same calendar, that means Priam is a mind-numbing number of generations descended from Ike. It also means that the continuity under went severe technological degredation. I mean they went from using Ballistae, Crossbows, and Onagers to just Ballistae to absolutely none of what they originally had.

To my knowledge Telius is not in the same universe as Awakening et al. so it doesn't matter. Besides if you have magic, you don't need technology per say :P.

[chiasaur11]

To my knowledge Telius is not in the same universe as Awakening et al. so it doesn't matter. Besides if you have magic, you don't need technology per say :P.

Also, Chrom's armies have ballistas. They come up in at least one support conversation.

It's just you never use them in battles. See, ballista have fixed damage.

Considering how Lu and Chrom can jump an average department store and accidentally smash huge holes in solid stone walls before they were level 10, seems reasonable to say those weapons would just bounce off the frontliners of your squad.

[Laughing Dog]

And I found out that different calendars are used in the different games. Also, I just recently got a copy of FE IV. Now all I need is either a Super Famicom or a converter for Super Famicom cartridges to SNES. Oh, and to learn a smidgen of Japanese so I can have half a clue as to what's going on.

One more thing, which support convo. did the ballistae come up in? I do not recall seeing that at all.

[Sylthia]

And I found out that different calendars are used in the different games. Also, I just recently got a copy of FE IV. Now all I need is either a Super Famicom or a converter for Super Famicom cartridges to SNES. Oh, and to learn a smidgen of Japanese so I can have half a clue as to what's going on.

One more thing, which support convo. did the ballistae come up in? I do not recall seeing that at all.

Since we have different calendars in the real world, I'd say that would neither support nor disprove the single world theory.

[Zevox]

I will never understand that strange desire to force a single continuity on seemingly unrelated stories. Don't understand it with Zelda, don't understand it here. Heck, I've even seen people try it with Final Fantasy, even though I've been told before that part of the reason for that series having its title is that each entry is the "final" one about that world. (Though they have broken that trend in that series, thanks to 10-2 and 13's sequels.)

[Laughing Dog]

Since we have different calendars in the real world, I'd say that would neither support nor disprove the single world theory.

Indeed it doesn't. It does, however, flush my reasoning earlier about Ike being the eldest hero down the toilet.

Also @Zevox: Technically, the Zelda games are in a (I believe the term is) a branched continuity. It started as one verse, but branched out after the events of OoT. Furthermore, all the FE games (at least the official ones so far) are all in the same continuity. Whether or not they are on the same world is up for debate, although it is fact that the Archaniean (or however you wish to spell it) games and the Valetian game are in the same world. It is also implied that the Jugdral games and the Tellius games are both on the same world as the Archaniean/Valetian world.

[Zevox]

Also @Zevox: Technically, the Zelda games are in a (I believe the term is) a branched continuity. It started as one verse, but branched out after the events of OoT.

Yeah, I don't buy that that was ever their original intention with those games, whatever they may say now. Hell, the series' stories aren't exactly their strong suit to begin with, so I don't see a point to putting any effort into giving them a continuity of any kind regardless.

Furthermore, all the FE games (at least the official ones so far) are all in the same continuity. Whether or not they are on the same world is up for debate,

A combination of statements that makes absolutely no sense - if they're in different worlds, they can't be in the same continuity, at least not without some multiverse-style cosmology that the series has never exhibited. Unless you have a source for that, I'm calling BS.

[Laughing Dog]

Yeah, I don't buy that that was ever their original intention with those games, whatever they may say now. Hell, the series' stories aren't exactly their strong suit to begin with, so I don't see a point to putting any effort into giving them a continuity of any kind regardless.

True. If I recall correctly, they were originally supposed to be different tellings of the same tale, or something to that effect.

A combination of statements that makes absolutely no sense - if they're in different worlds, they can't be in the same continuity, at least not without some multiverse-style cosmology that the series has never exhibited. Unless you have a source for that, I'm calling BS.

Spoiler: Plot spoiler and reasoning

Show

Actually, it is a major point in Awakening. First is the Outrealm Gate, which is admittedly used for the DLC stuff. It opens portals to other realms, most of which couldn't be on the exact same world as the main game. One example is Taelys, where the first three maps occur. Since Ylisse is on the Alkaenian continent, that means Taelys exists in that world as well. Furthermore, early on in the game, Lucina comes through an arcane gate from what is technically an alternate dimension, albeit one that is highly similar to the one the game occurs in. In three of the later DLC Maps, you travel to yet another dimension, one that is again highly similar to the main game's world. The future children don't actually time travel, but slide into an AU that's theirs, but set at an earlier point in time. I honestly believe the various games all exist on a single word, but acknowledge that there is a possibility that some of them don't.

[Zevox]

Spoiler: Plot spoiler and reasoning

Show

Actually, it is a major point in Awakening. First is the Outrealm Gate, which is admittedly used for the DLC stuff. It opens portals to other realms, most of which couldn't be on the exact same world as the main game. One example is Taelys, where the first three maps occur. Since Ylisse is on the Alkaenian continent, that means Taelys exists in that world as well. Furthermore, early on in the game, Lucina comes through an arcane gate from what is technically an alternate dimension, albeit one that is highly similar to the one the game occurs in. In three of the later DLC Maps, you travel to yet another dimension, one that is again highly similar to the main game's world. The future children don't actually time travel, but slide into an AU that's theirs, but set at an earlier point in time. I honestly believe the various games all exist on a single word, but acknowledge that there is a possibility that some of them don't.

Yeah, I don't buy it. A handwave magic portal that allows DLC content from other games does not a coherent multiversal continuity create, nor by any means does it imply than any of the games' settings exist on the same world.

Spoiler

Show

As the future children, true, but that's just one of the ways time travel can be portrayed to avoid paradoxes - the time traveler cannot change the history of their world because it becomes an alternate timeline. It implies nothing beyond that.

[Laughing Dog]

Only other things that relate to there being multiple worlds in the Fire Emblem series are the Alterspire in 11 (and possibly 1 & 3) as well as the Dragons' Gate of 6 & 7. The Alterspire exists in an alternate dimension, while the Dragons' Gate is a link between Elibe and the world the dragons fled to around the end of the Scouring. Other than that, I really can't think of any other examples of multiple worlds. We can only speculate unless we get confirmation from Word of God one way or another. So really, the point is moot.

Also, to everyone on the thread in general: Who's you're favorite unimportant boss/Named-enemy-that-is-never-recruitable-and-is-higher-level-than-the-rest-of-the-enemies-on-the-map? You cannot choose: a) recruitable, b)has appeared in another chapter, or c) the Bandit twins. My favorite would be Zaitan, the boss from Radiant Dawn Part 1 chapter 2. A fisherman, nuff said. A runner up is Veyona, also from Radiant Dawn. A dark magic user that shows sense, isn't blatantly evil, and isn't recruitable. Just how rare is that, anyways?

[Zevox]

Only other things that relate to there being multiple worlds in the Fire Emblem series

Are you under the impression that we need more evidence of the different sets of games being set in different worlds beyond the fact that they don't have the same locations, geography, characters, etc?

[Rodin]

IIRC, at least some of the games are canonically set in the same universe as Awakening, because Support conversations actually talk about the legendary characters in the past.

Beyond that, I'm definitely in the camp that considers anything from the DLC gate to be sketchy at best.

On favorite unimportant characters...

I'm guessing Cervantes doesn't count because he shows up in two chapters, which is a shame because I would have loved to have him and his glorious mustache on my side.

Otherwise, Mustafa. Honorable man who deserved better than what he got. I always feel bad when he asks for his men to be spared after I've just cut my way through them.

[Zevox]

IIRC, at least some of the games are canonically set in the same universe as Awakening, because Support conversations actually talk about the legendary characters in the past.

Yes, but only Marth's games specifically. Which is very directly referenced, what with Lucina disguising herself as Marth, and Tiki being in the game and specifically talking about having known him. Also, if you compare the maps between the games, their continents do actually look pretty similar (albeit not quite identical, so apparently it has been a very long time indeed).

[chiasaur11]

Yes, but only Marth's games specifically. Which is very directly referenced, what with Lucina disguising herself as Marth, and Tiki being in the game and specifically talking about having known him. Also, if you compare the maps between the games, their continents do actually look pretty similar (albeit not quite identical, so apparently it has been a very long time indeed).

Marth's games and, further back, 4 and 5. Naga's a common thread.

Kaga, guy who made Fire Emblem 1-5, had them all being in the same world in mind as part of the design. Was going to make the ties more solid, but then things got... messy. Read up on Tearring Saga and Emblem Saga if you want the details, it's a bit on the interesting side to see how that creator company split went down. It's a diversion from the main topic, though.

And I'd say the fact the plot of every DLC starts with "There are other worlds" indicates that there's something in the way of a multiverse. And, since it's mentioned in one of the endings, think it's meant to be a thing in the narrative. Good thing too, or else Tellius would be in the past of Awakening thanks to Priam and that's... messy. Since, you know, big plot point there that every other continent drowned.

With the convenient outrealm gate, it even covers myths about people from other worlds coming up. Just needs to get in the Anna grapevine, pretty soon the myths are ingrained into the culture even from worlds away.

Nice and neat. (On the other hand, it might not cover Lucina's time travel. Or Morgan's. That's where things get messy again.)

[Laughing Dog]

I've gotten into the endgame of RD recently and brought with me: the requireds, Soren, Ilyana, Meg, Pelleas, Titania, Astrid, Elincia, Geoffery, Mordecai, and Vika. Meg has Level-capped, and has capped most of her stats. Vika is Lv 30 and has capped everything but HP & Luck. Mordecai has wrath and resolve, and is hilariously broken when at 1/2 hp or less. The rest of the units are doing well, though most of them need more speed.
Units that didn't make it into the endgame, but were seriously considered: Oscar, Brom, Kieran, Mist, Naesala, Nephenee, Volug, and Makalov. Units I wish I could have brought to the endgame, but can't because of someone else being forced to join: Heather, Tormod, and Volke.

Also, been replaying FE7 and recently finished Lyn Hard Mode. With the the obvious exception of Wallace, the unit with the highest defense was Nils. Nils also had the highest resistance bar none. What the heck, RNG? Also figured out that Florina can bum rush the archer in the Ballista in Ch 8. other than that, anyone have suggestions on who to build up to bring to endgame? Canas is a definite, while I'm going to try and bring Batre if I can.

[Sylthia]

I've gotten into the endgame of RD recently and brought with me: the requireds, Soren, Ilyana, Meg, Pelleas, Titania, Astrid, Elincia, Geoffery, Mordecai, and Vika. Meg has Level-capped, and has capped most of her stats. Vika is Lv 30 and has capped everything but HP & Luck. Mordecai has wrath and resolve, and is hilariously broken when at 1/2 hp or less. The rest of the units are doing well, though most of them need more speed.
Units that didn't make it into the endgame, but were seriously considered: Oscar, Brom, Kieran, Mist, Naesala, Nephenee, Volug, and Makalov. Units I wish I could have brought to the endgame, but can't because of someone else being forced to join: Heather, Tormod, and Volke.

Also, been replaying FE7 and recently finished Lyn Hard Mode. With the the obvious exception of Wallace, the unit with the highest defense was Nils. Nils also had the highest resistance bar none. What the heck, RNG? Also figured out that Florina can bum rush the archer in the Ballista in Ch 8. other than that, anyone have suggestions on who to build up to bring to endgame? Canas is a definite, while I'm going to try and bring Batre if I can.

If I remember correctly, most units have terrible Def and Res growths in the earlier games, so it's not unusual to have very poor defensive stats on most of your units.

[Jermell]

I've gotten into the endgame of RD recently and brought with me: the requireds, Soren, Ilyana, Meg, Pelleas, Titania, Astrid, Elincia, Geoffery, Mordecai, and Vika. Meg has Level-capped, and has capped most of her stats. Vika is Lv 30 and has capped everything but HP & Luck. Mordecai has wrath and resolve, and is hilariously broken when at 1/2 hp or less. The rest of the units are doing well, though most of them need more speed.
Units that didn't make it into the endgame, but were seriously considered: Oscar, Brom, Kieran, Mist, Naesala, Nephenee, Volug, and Makalov. Units I wish I could have brought to the endgame, but can't because of someone else being forced to join: Heather, Tormod, and Volke.

Also, been replaying FE7 and recently finished Lyn Hard Mode. With the the obvious exception of Wallace, the unit with the highest defense was Nils. Nils also had the highest resistance bar none. What the heck, RNG? Also figured out that Florina can bum rush the archer in the Ballista in Ch 8. other than that, anyone have suggestions on who to build up to bring to endgame? Canas is a definite, while I'm going to try and bring Batre if I can.

O.o I remember Meg being terrible. Like god-awful. A knight that wanted to be a myrmidon. But hey whatever works.

Besides the lords I'd bring Raven, Pent the supa sage, One of Lyn's two cavaliers as they are rather reliable, and Matthew (if you can survive getting him leveled on hard mode) or...Crap the really good assassin that evades my memory. They were quite reliable for me. Lucius would also be pretty good.