Goblins XIV: Clerical Omission.

[VariaVespasa]

It was the kid. Kore is bat**** insane.

[Math_Mage]

We knew that when he killed the kid. At least, I sincerely hope we did.

[sum1won]

Art is substantially improved. Much less flat. There are still problems with dimensions and movement, but the latter is improved as well, and we haven't seen a shot to evaluate dimensions. Dialogue is still as stilted as ever, so I hope Thunt at some point revisits and rewrites it in a substantive way, since he's probably using the scripts he wrote before the involuntary hiatus (and, if some of his posts are to be believed, before starting the comic at all). I'm glad to see he's doing better, though, and as I said, the art has improved by leaps and bounds while remaining distinctively goblins.

[Bird]

Art is substantially improved. Much less flat. There are still problems with dimensions and movement, but the latter is improved as well, and we haven't seen a shot to evaluate dimensions. Dialogue is still as stilted as ever, so I hope Thunt at some point revisits and rewrites it in a substantive way, since he's probably using the scripts he wrote before the involuntary hiatus (and, if some of his posts are to be believed, before starting the comic at all). I'm glad to see he's doing better, though, and as I said, the art has improved by leaps and bounds while remaining distinctively goblins.

I understand your point about stilted dialogue, but all we've got on this page is a villainous monologue, and those are practically stilted by definition.

Edit: Well, I should qualify that; there are more naturalistic villainous monologues out there. But as pop culture writing goes, it is not a strong field.

[Rosstin]

I'm really proud of Thunt for coming back. ~<3

And for getting the help he needed. That isn't easy.

[Adaon Nightwind]

Goblins has returned (which is good), and with it the sadness of the latest developments. In the last panel, Forgath hesitates - i am fairly certain that this will be his undoing, and like a friend that has not been seen for some time, his return warmed my heart. Yet i must keep myself apart, for his death was foretold.

[gomipile]

While thinking about the current fight in the comic, this lyric just popped into my head:

"It's gonna take a lot to drag me away from you
There's nothing that a hundred men or Kore could ever do."

[Winterwind]

Goblins has returned (which is good), and with it the sadness of the latest developments. In the last panel, Forgath hesitates - i am fairly certain that this will be his undoing, and like a friend that has not been seen for some time, his return warmed my heart. Yet i must keep myself apart, for his death was foretold.

Actually, while I assumed he would die in this battle, the page that announced the return of Goblins makes me think otherwise. Because of that "When the serpent becomes his prey, friends will become enemies and love will fuel hate. Oh gods, Minmax. I'm so sorry." part. I'd think either the person speaking or the one referred to would have to be Forgath - so he'd have to survive this fight.

(I also wonder why whoever is speaking says "his prey" instead of "your prey" there, as the prophecy went originally.)

[Math_Mage]

Actually, while I assumed he would die in this battle, the page that announced the return of Goblins makes me think otherwise. Because of that "When the serpent becomes his prey, friends will become enemies and love will fuel hate. Oh gods, Minmax. I'm so sorry." part. I'd think either the person speaking or the one referred to would have to be Forgath - so he'd have to survive this fight.

(I also wonder why whoever is speaking says "his prey" instead of "your prey" there, as the prophecy went originally.)

I dunno, it sounds like mourning to me.

[Morty]

I'm glad that Thunt managed to drag himself out of the depths of depression, or some other disorder he was diagnosed with. That said, I don't particularly like this page. It's chaotic unclear, especially the moment where Kore strikes down with his axe. Does Forgath grab his indestructible beard and use it as a shield?

[Winterwind]

I dunno, it sounds like mourning to me.

Regardless of whether it is or not - it's directed at Minmax, so he's not the person speaking, which pretty much doesn't leave anyone but Forgath (since I don't think there's anyone else who even knows the prophecy). And if it's not him, then the "his prey" pretty much must refer to him (it can't refer to Minmax, he's the one spoken to), and no serpent has become Forgath's prey up till this point.

Honestly, my main problem here is that it would seem as if Forgath is the most likely candidate for both the person speaking and the person referred to, but only one of the two can be true (since he wouldn't be saying "his" when speaking about himself).

[Murk]

I read it more as Minmax telling one of the goblins about the prophecy. Like, Big-ears being "Aw man don't worry Forgath will be OK", and Minmax saying "Nah, there's this prophecy about him dying.", so the goblin could respond with "A prophesy? Sheesh. I'm so sorry."
So, yeah, Forgath being the subject and pretty much dead.

Having said that, I don't think he'll die. I just don't see it yet.

[Winterwind]

I read it more as Minmax telling one of the goblins about the prophecy. Like, Big-ears being "Aw man don't worry Forgath will be OK", and Minmax saying "Nah, there's this prophecy about him dying.", so the goblin could respond with "A prophesy? Sheesh. I'm so sorry."
So, yeah, Forgath being the subject and pretty much dead.

Several problems with that. Firstly, it doesn't really fit the actual text in the bubbles - why would the goblin reiterate the entire prophecy word for word in that context? (And it's only one person speaking, not several)
Secondly, that would require for Minmax to actually have memorized the prophecy verbatim, something I just can't see him doing.
Thirdly, that still leaves the actual text of the prophecy utterly unaddressed. No serpent has become Forgath's prey, and this hasn't caused friends to become enemies and love to beget hate. If Forgath died here, it wouldn't have anything to do with the prophecy (other than the "dying in combat with another dwarf"-thing, which Young-And-Beautiful added on top of the prophecy, but which is not actually mentioned in that cryptic line anywhere).

I mean...
*Forgath killed by Kore*
Goblin: "Of course! When the serpent becomes his prey, friends will become enemies and love will fuel hate! It all makes sense now! Oh gods, Minmax, I'm so sorry!"
...is kind of a total non-sequitur.

[Neoriceisgood]

Oh hey, it's back. *fixes RSS feed*

[Douglas]

My guess for that line is that it's spoken by Kin. She learns about the prophecy somehow, figures out some of what really happened in the Maze of Many, and comes back to apologize and maybe rejoin him.

[Aquillion]

Several problems with that. Firstly, it doesn't really fit the actual text in the bubbles - why would the goblin reiterate the entire prophecy word for word in that context? (And it's only one person speaking, not several)
Secondly, that would require for Minmax to actually have memorized the prophecy verbatim, something I just can't see him doing.
Thirdly, that still leaves the actual text of the prophecy utterly unaddressed. No serpent has become Forgath's prey, and this hasn't caused friends to become enemies and love to beget hate. If Forgath died here, it wouldn't have anything to do with the prophecy (other than the "dying in combat with another dwarf"-thing, which Young-And-Beautiful added on top of the prophecy, but which is not actually mentioned in that cryptic line anywhere).

The "serpent" is the viper clan, which Minmax and Forgoth set out to stop from destroying the world based on coming across a fragment of their prophecies. Doing so directly led to everything that happened in the Maze of Many and everything happening now.

Friends became enemies when Kin forgot Minmax.
Love fueled hate when he grabbed for her leash.

I mean, there could be a twist, and those could be fakeouts, but as far as I can tell the entire prophecy has been satisfied.

(I wouldn't actually be surprised if Forgath survived, mind -- mostly because I am not sure that Kore is actually a dwarf anymore. Have we seen any indication that the Racist Axe is working for him? But the words also fit as Forgath's dying thoughts.)

[Lissou]

My guess for that line is that it's spoken by Kin. She learns about the prophecy somehow, figures out some of what really happened in the Maze of Many, and comes back to apologize and maybe rejoin him.

I also thought the sentence was said by Kin. But I see it as her talking to herself. And it's not quite clear how she would know the prophecy.

The "serpent" is the viper clan, which Minmax and Forgoth set out to stop from destroying the world based on coming across a fragment of their prophecies. Doing so directly led to everything that happened in the Maze of Many and everything happening now.

I interpreted the serpent to be Kin. Kin became Minmax's prey when he grabbed her leash. Love fueled hate and friends became enemies. Still, the prophecy is intentionally vague. It first seemed it was referring to Thaco's swords (which form a snake), but then there was the Viper clan (a snake) and finally Kin. It could refer to tons of things.

Either way, my current interpretation is that instead of joining them, she did not, and as a result they're in the current situation, which will lead to Forgath's death. To me, this sentence is spoken by a third party who feels guilty or responsible for what happened (and I can only see 2 people fitting that description: Kin, who now knows that she is bound to Minmax and might figure out what happened, or Big Ears, who is compassionate enough that he would feel sorry for Minmax for losing Forgath). Either way, to me that sentence comes after Forgath's death. Why else would people feel sorry for Minmax than after his best friend dies?

So to sum up, the way I see it, the options are:

- Kin somehow knew or learn the prophecy and realises that Forgath is going to die and that it could be linked to how she sent them off on their own. She feels sorry for the whole thing.

- Someone, maybe Kin, maybe someone else, learns that Forgath is dead and also learn the prophecy, and is trying to comfort Minmax.

It could be a red herring. It could be "someone assume Forgath is about to die/has died and is trying to comfort Minmax, but Forgath is actually fine". But I certainly don't read the dialogue as proof that Forgath makes it by any means.

About dialogue, the only recurring problem I've had with Thunt's dialogue is that I've always been taught "one balloon = one breath" and so it always reads to me like his characters are speaking really fast without breathing or pausing. A lot of it would be fixed by having 2 or 3 balloons (or more) in a given panel, even when it's just the one character speaking, like most other comics do it.

I also think Thunt has a bad case of "it sounded great in my head". You know how it can seem difficult or near-impossible to transcribe something that works perfectly when you're thinking about it, but somehow doesn't sound quite right once it's on the page? Thunt has had a few of those moments. He knows what needs to be said, and he knows it sounds awkward or weird (like the "hurts like a sickness" episode) but he's having trouble figuring out another way to communicate the necessary information that would seem more natural.
I didn't find that specific thing to be an issue in the current update, though. I have sometimes noticed it (and usually it was changed later on) but here, I'm just struggling a little bit with the pacing of it.

[Gift Jeraff]

The curse/possessing being/parasite controlling Kore will transfer to Forgath to continue its quest. Eventually Kin will become its prey.

[Holy_Knight]

We knew that when he killed the kid. At least, I sincerely hope we did.

Yes, but I think he seems even more so now. Before, he was using flimsy evidence to "justify" slaughtering people he'd actually encountered. Now he's using even flimsier evidence to "justify" slaughtering people he's never even met. He's gone from "you are tainted by evil so I have to kill you" to "you are tainted by evil so I have to kill everyone in your hometown." They're both horrific, but the latter is even worse.

[Elystan]

Fingers crossed for an update tomorrow. I know we're not supposed to be commenting on that stuff but..

You have to hope he drew more than one page in seven months, and that the updates are going to be at least 1 per week.

[Neoriceisgood]

An actual buffer for Goblins would be nice, yeah.

[Bird]

I'll note that apart from the initial messages about the previous update coming "soon," Thunt seems to have avoided making any promises about update frequency or timing this time around. Which seems like a good thing, to me. 1/week would be great, but I have no idea what he actually has in mind.

[Eerie]

Any idea how Kin can rejoin the party (assuming for a moment that she will)? They only fast way is for her to use the teapot, but that means she will be leaving it behind.

[Draconi Redfir]

its possible she could just "walk", get the locaition of the goblin camp from say, one-eye or someone form a simmiler universe, then win the game, wich will drop her out of the maze just secconds after she went in (so in a sense, she's already back) and from there she might be able to find a shortcut or two to get back there in time to meet up with minmax and the gang.

[Vinyadan]

I'll note that apart from the initial messages about the previous update coming "soon," Thunt seems to have avoided making any promises about update frequency or timing this time around. Which seems like a good thing, to me.

Yes, I agree that it's a great thing. It means that he's got over extreme anxiety about other people expectations and that this doesn't coerce him anymore to make promises he can't/can only with excessive stress keep. Which brings him to be more honest and direct, to live relationship and communication better and to appear (and be) more trustworthy.

[BannedInSchool]

then win the game, wich will drop her out of the maze just secconds after she went in

I don't know that's a given. The maze resets to the beginning for you when you lose, just as if the losing run never happened, but I don't think it was said that the winning run takes no time at all relative to the outside world. Not all of the possibly thousands of years spent running through the maze pass on the outside, but it'd make some sense to say everything behaves as if the winning run were the only one that happened. Then it'd seem like you go in, spend however long it takes to win, and then come out with that much time having passed, just like a normal dungeon with no missing memories or misplaced time.

[Anteros]

I don't know that's a given. The maze resets to the beginning for you when you lose, just as if the losing run never happened, but I don't think it was said that the winning run takes no time at all relative to the outside world. Not all of the possibly thousands of years spent running through the maze pass on the outside, but it'd make some sense to say everything behaves as if the winning run were the only one that happened. Then it'd seem like you go in, spend however long it takes to win, and then come out with that much time having passed, just like a normal dungeon with no missing memories or misplaced time.

Even so, that would only be a few days at most.

[Douglas]

Even so, that would only be a few days at most.

Plus, the time to win would be measured from when the group entered, and "current time" already has a gap from that moment for the time it took to do the Maze the first time. If that's how the Maze of Many works, Kin could actually come out before Minmax and Forgath did by having her final run be an ultra-fast one.

[BannedInSchool]

If that's how the Maze of Many works, Kin could actually come out before Minmax and Forgath did by having her final run be an ultra-fast one.

Depends on what their plan is. Kinda gruesome to think about it, but if they're going to get to the tower room and just kill all their alts for XP then they'll still be waiting for the alts to show up and that wouldn't be any faster. Edit: Ah, a little faster as "our" FKM group loitered around a while after getting to the end.

[Draconi Redfir]

well don't forget, they have the ability to alter the maze, they can pull a psimax and keep their memmories, and thus experiance from run to run, so there would be no need to kill everyone on their "final" run unless they wanted to waste time. plus there are other ways of earning xp, such as solving puzzles, overcoming obsticals, and defeating things and people without killing them.

not to mention the plan seems to be to grow a small army of Kins to make a super intelligent force to be reckoned with before finding a universe to settle down in. should this plot ever be touched on again, we could potentually even see the return of Skorpikin, who, while a dunse admittedly, was still a capable fighter, and could be a valuble asset to the team.