"If people don't change, why should I be like people?"(Mythos Paragon)

[Amnoriath]

Mythic Changeling

"Laws change depending on who's making them," Odo, a mythic changeling

On the eve of creation there had existed an industrious peace. The Gods who were the viziers, mathematicians, architects adding detail after detail to the great worlds and creatures. Then there were the Proteans, a race that were never really created but ones that came into existence the same time the first Gods. This race though didn't have corporeal bodies to speak of, instead they were waves of semi-solid fluid that could morph themselves into all sorts of objects or beings. They worked with the Gods being the artists, caretakers, innovators of the plans. However, once they were finished the Proteans could never leave things be. They would act like what they created or even unmake them only to seemingly do the same thing again. The Gods demanded that they would go according to the plans and expand upon them. The Proteans though were determined to stay. While the heavenly beings may have been more powerful the myriad of forms and amorphous bodies of the Proteans proved to be relentless. As supernal beings were being engulfed by the tides the Gods did notice one thing. The Proteans power were dependent on each other as well as surroundings far more than just tools and strategy. It was their only way to communicate and develop. The Gods then scattered the planes of existence setting up rules and dominant races in each of them while isolating the straggling Proteans. Eventually they either died from being hunted or alone. The only echos of them are the kin of compassionate creatures that had sheltered them, the Dopplegangers.

Lost Protean Visage

Prerequisites: Doppleganger or Changeling, One Mythos known

Benefit: You may add the following mythos to your mythos class list. Additionally you add Disguise as a class skill to any class you take through out your career. If you already have Disguise as a class skill you act as if you had the Skill Focus(disguise) bonus feat. You also gain one hit point per racial feat you possess.
Exceptional Mythos

Spoiler

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Harkened Expedient Protos

You gain Quick Change as bonus feat. In addition you may make a quick cosmetic change on your body as a free action. This change cannot alter you enough to constitute a full body modification. However, you may try to make a Concentration check of 20+5 for every use after one in the day to make a normal minor shapechange as an immediate action.

Prismatic Textural Mimicry

You may instead use your Minor Shapechange ability to match the color and the texture of the surrounding area. When you do this you gain a circumstance bonus equal to 5+mythos class level to hide checks and you may attempt to hide without concealment so long as you weren't being observed when you used your minor shapechange this way. Additionally you must stay in an environment that does not have a drastic change in scenery or texture losing all benefits of this ability if it would happen. For example if you were hiding in an alley way with this ability and choose to move in an area of vegetation your would lose your bonus and ability to hide without cover. If you would obtain Hide in Plain Sight or use the distraction use for Bluff you may hide as a free action once a round.

Advanced Manifestation

Like a Tree: If you stand still in the round that you used this ability and remain unnoticed you can choose to make yourself into a mundane object of your equivalent size as an immediate action. This uses your Disguise check to determine whether or not people believe you are in fact the object. While in this state you can not move or take physical action otherwise it ends the effect automatically. You can remain in this state for rounds equal to your mythos class level+con. modifier after which you must wait an equivalent amount of time spent to use it again. This is otherwise considered a polymorph effect.

Adaptive Climatic Vagabond

You have learned to deal with prying eyes of strangers looking at you by acting like someone else. Now you can master an environment by taking up it creature's proclivities. You gain Endurace as a bonus feat. You can only take up one of these benefits at a time regardless of how many you know and change them using your Minor Shapechange ability.

Basic Manifestations

Desert: You gain fire resistance equal to 5+mythos class level and Heat Endurance as a bonus feat. Additionally you cannot become fatiqued unless it would normally exhaust you. If you obtain an immunity to fatigue elsewhere you become immune to exhaustion. You also gain a competence bonus equal to 2+one half mythos class level to Tumble checks.

Arctic: You gain cold resistance equal to 5+mythos class level. You also gain Diehard and Cold Endurace as bonus feats. You automatically make balance checks that deal with slippery ground. Additionally you gain a competence bonus to Survival checks equal to 2+half your mythos class level.

Forest: You gain Alertness as a bonus feat. Additionally you can make standing jumps without any penalty and your jumping distance per move action may be double that of your land speed. You also gain a competence bonus to Jump checks equal to 2+one half mythos class level.

Plains: You gain Run as a bonus feat and all forms of movement are increased by 10 feet. Also any sight based vision and range restricted damage or conditions has their range doubled as well as your range increments are increased by 20. You gain a competence bonus to Spot checks equal to 2+one half mythos class level.

Mountains: You gain natural armor of 2+one fourth mythos class level. Additionally when you climb or balance you do not become flat-footed and you can choose to use only two limbs while having a climb speed of 20. You gain a competence bonus to Climb checks equal to 2+one half mythos class level.

Cavernous: You gain acid resistance equal to 5+mythos class level. Additionally you gain darkvision 60 and Blind Fight as a bonus feat except that you can move normally in darkness. You may also reroll against any concealment with ranged attacks. If you have darkvision you can automatically make a search check in dim or dark areas. You gain a competence bonus to Search checks equal to 2+one half mythos class levels.

Urban: You gain Master Linguist as a bonus feat. Additionally you can mimic any kind of voice so long as you make a Speak Language check using the Knowledge skill rules to determine rarity. Creatures may make a Listen check to not be fooled by it. You gain competence bonuses to Diplomacy and Speak Language equal to 2+one half mythos class levels.

Aquatic: You gain electricity resistance equal to 5+mythos class level. Additionally you gain the Hold Breath quality and you do not suffer any penalties for attacking or using skills underwater. You gain a competence bonus to Swim checks equal to 2+one half mythos class levels.

Swamp: You become immune to the sickened condition and anything that would normally make nauseated makes you sickened instead. Additionally you may ignore difficult terrain so long as it isn't made of stone, metal, or because of darkness. You also gain a competence bonus to Escape Artist checks equal to 2+one half mythos class level.

Weightless: You do not suffer any penalties or restrictions while in the prone position. Additionally any damage that would result from falling or being knocked back is treated as being 5xmythos class level less feet. You also gain a competence bonus to Balance checks equal to your 2+one half mythos class level.

Advanced: You may select another basic manifestation and you may have 2 on at once. You may also temporarily learn any one manifestation above if you have meditated in the appropriate area for one hour.

Telepathic Stalking Pariah

You gain Persona Immersion as a bonus feat. Additionally you may use detect thoughts as a spell-like ability using your mythos class save DC and caster level. If you take up a prestige class that offers this as a spell-like ability or advances it in some way it stacks to determine the save DC and strength of this mythos as well as its manifestations.

Basic Manifestations

Persona Fortification: The level of the spell for Persona Immersion is now equal to half your mythos class level if it is better and it may also considered to be saved if they failed to make a caster level check against you.

Efficient Mind Reading: You can also duplicate the effects of the detect chaos/good/evil/law spells the same time you use your detect thoughts effect.

Harrier of the Weak Will: You gain a circumstance bonus equal to your charisma modifier to attack rolls or equal to 1+1/4 mythos class level, which ever is better whenever they fail the save against detect thoughts.

Advanced Manifestations

Relentless Probing: If an enemy made its will save against your detect thoughts effect if you maintain concentration you can force them to save again in the next round.

Spy in the Eye: If the creature fails its will save you automatically know its location and does not have any concealment for the round.

Cloud the Diviners: As an immediate action you can dispel any divination or enchantment effect in effect or being cast having an effective caster level equal to your mythos class level.

Fantastic Mythos

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Dependendable Rakish Facade

Prerequisite: One Changeling mythos known
You gain skill points equal to 4+mythos class level and you may choose two cross class skills to become class skills for this mythos class. Additionally you can change the appearance of your clothing as part of your Minor Shapeshift ability.

Basic Manifestations

Believe the Lie: You gain the Assume Quirk skill trick. You also can choose one cross-class skill to treat as being trained and a class skill gaining a bonus equal to 2+1/4 mythos class levels to the check while in a disquise. This skill though must be something in which someone whom you are imitating would readily be able to do.

With a Flick: You obtain the Mosquito Bite and Sudden Draw skill tricks. Additionally you gain 1d6 of sneak attack per 5 levels of mythos class.

Shifting Feint: You gain Improved Feint as a bonus feat and Timely Misdirection skill trick. Additionally you may make a bluff check once per round as a free action so long as it involves simple movements or two word phrases. Additionally you add your mythos class level to your bluff check when attempting to feint in combat.

Carbon Copy: You can use your Minor Shapeshift ability to disquise yourself as an actual person. You also gain a competence bonus equal to your mythos class level to bluff and forgery checks in order to convince people on who you are at the moment. Though you must have either engaged this person in conversation for 5 minutes or have at least studied them in some manner for a day in order to do this.

Muffled Step: You gain Dark Stalker as bonus feat. Additionally if you make a Move Silently check equal to 15+CR creatures are not entitled to an automatic Listen or the trap isn't set off check against you for the round. You gain a bonus to Move Silently equal to half your level.

Enveloping Palm: You gain the Hidden Blade skill trick. If you made a successful Sleight of Hand check you can choose to store it in your hand as a free action once a round. Additionally you may draw it out as a free action. The item in question cannot be larger than your forearm regardless of how good your Sleight of Hand check is and you cannot store more than one item larger than your hand or two smaller in each arm. You gain a bonus to Sleight of Hand checks equal to half your level.

Fluid Escape: You gain the Evasion class feature as a rogue. Additionally Escape Artist checks that usually take a minute only take a full-round action. Ones that take a full-round action now only take a move action. Finally, ones that take a standard action only take an immediate action that happens after a creature effectively binds or grapples them. You gain a bonus to Escape Artist checks equal to half your level.

Harassing Antics: You gain Disturbing Visage as a bonus feat. Additionally you gain extra effects to the appropriate maneuvers. Those who fall for Cringe become two steps more friendly towards you up to indifferent. You can taunt someone 30 feet away and must always take actions geared at you. Those whom you Unnerve lose their psionic focus or next concentration check. These conditions still carrying the same time alloted by the feat.

Advanced: You may select basic manifestations equal to one fifth your mythos class level. If you take any levels of rogue or factotum they stack with your mythos class level.

Malleable Opalescent Physique

Prerequisite: One Changeling Mythos Known
You gain Mutable Body as a bonus feat. You may also change your physical attributes on a one to one basis whenever you use your Minor Shapeshift ability. You cannot decrease an attribute score below half of its original score.
Additionally you learn to manipulate your body to imitate tools and other fine instruments. If you make it emulate a weapon, armor, or shield it possesses an enhancement bonus equal to 1+one fourth your level and may be treated as a metal of your choice. These bonuses may be traded in for equivalent enchantment properties. You can choose to supplant ammunition as a free action but you deal 1 point of damage to yourself that bypasses any DR you possess. These items in question cannot exceed the weight of one of your limbs nor may it be magical in any nature. When using this you lose any bonus to disguise or bluff checks in order to conceal your identity and opponents are automatically entitled to a spot check against you. This otherwise functions like the graft weapon power. These are treated as full uses of your Minor Shapeshift ability unless otherwise stated.

Legendary Mythos

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Inexorable Altering Lineage

Prerequisites: Two Changeling mythos known
You gain Racial Emulation as a bonus feat. If you already have this feat you may select any other racial feat you qualify for. This feat may be exchanged if you changed your form to another race. You officially don the shapechanger subtype. This allows your Minor Shapechange ability to assume the form of any small or medium sized humanoid/monstrous humanoid race with a HD equal to one half your mythos class level round down.
Additionally you can choose to pay a cost of 100 xp per HD of creature you can adapt all of its racial physique, bonuses, and abilities in addition to your own using your own effective hit die while assuming its form. You do not take up its mental attribute bonuses or penalties. If a creature does not have an attribute bonus you instead take up its listed score if it is better. This effect does not transfer when you change form. This becomes a polymorph effect if you would take a form that is larger than your current size, smaller than small, or the body does not have a bipedal structure.

Basic Manifestations

Expand the Gene Pool: You can choose another creature type to be included in the Inexorable Altering Lineage.

Size Adaptation: You can choose to be Tiny or Large creatures in your available monster types. If you select this again it becomes Fine and Huge.

Abnormal Variance: You can select a single template that is only for a single creature to apply to your desired form adding its level adjustment to its HD for exp cost. If a template just has a ritual cost treat it as having a level adjustment of one. When you select this again you can choose another template to know.

Advanced Manifestations: You may select another basic manifestation or the one below.

Bane of the Stagnant Incarnate: You may use your Minor Shapechange ability to reflect that of a true Protean. You still use your normal physical and mental characteristics however all your items and weapons meld into your new form. You gain fast healing 10 and you become immune to critical hits, precision damage, flanking, and transmutation effects if you choose to. Additionally weapons deals only half damage to you. You gain a slam attack of 1d8(medium)+Str which can be used in iteratives. Your body is also fluid allowing to seep through cracks and fight in close quarters with no penalty can also modify your size according to what you selected for the above manifestations as a free action once a round. If an opponent is in the same space as you are they must make a fortitude save or become nauseated while suffering your slam damage once a round that bypasses any damage reduction or hardness. If a creature dies or item destroyed you can recover an amount of damage equal to the victims hit die+mythos class level allowing temporary health if it exceeds your own but doesn't stack with itself by staying in the space or on creature for rounds equal to 1+1/size category larger than you(minimum 1). Mundane items are considered to have one HD while magical items are considered have hit die equal to the effective bonus they possess(use effective wealth if to determine if it doesn't have one). Creatures disposed of this way cannot be resurrected other than by wish, miracle, or true resurrection. Items destroyed this don't lose any value.

[Primal Fury]

Hrm... I guess I'll need a new name other than "Changeling" for my next Mythic Race then...

[Amnoriath]

Hrm... I guess I'll need a new name other than "Changeling" for my next Mythic Race then...

Oops, sorry

[Primal Fury]

Well I guess I can offer more than that.

Where's the fluff?

[Kaje]

These mythos seem rather weak to me.

[qazzquimby]

Is there a Mythos compendium? If there is not I wouldn't mind running it.

[Kaje]

Please do.

[Primal Fury]

In addition to feeling kinda weak, they seem far to focused on a single thing, namely disguise, which isn't useful to everyone. For example, what use does a Teramach get out of this feat? There are a few useful things here, but why choose this over... the Mythic Reth Dekala when you'll just end up smashing stuff with Charisma of 1 in the end?

[Amnoriath]

In addition to feeling kinda weak, they seem far to focused on a single thing, namely disguise, which isn't useful to everyone. For example, what use does a Teramach get out of this feat? There are a few useful things here, but why choose this over... the Mythic Reth Dekala when you'll just end up smashing stuff with Charisma of 1 in the end?

1. Well the obvious of choice of starting to grow weapons and armor out of himself as well as redistribute physical stats(Malleable Opalescent Form).
2. This actually gets an effective Hide in Plain sight like ability at level 1 possibly(Prismatic Textural Mimicry).
3. Detect Thoughts requires no expertise to use with scaling DC.
4. Dependable Rakish Facade adds several nice skill like abilities along with sneak attack(Free action bluff check, reduce Escape Artist actions, Extraordinary ED space..etc).
5. Inexorable Altering Lineage is what Alter Self only wished it could be.
Is it the absolute battle Paragon, absolutely not. It is though very adaptable giving expertise in infiltration, hiding, escape, and spying. It gives uses outside of combat as well as some in.

[Primal Fury]

If you say so, but they still feel weak.

I feel like Hearkened Expedient Protos should be an Advanced Manifestation rather than an actual Mythos.

Dependable Rakish Facade feels more like an Exceptional Mythos than a Fantastic one.

And Inexorable Altering Lineage... is there a particular reason you limited them to half HD from the get-go?

[vasharanpaladin]

A helpful hint: Fluff is mandatory for Mythos material, that's why I haven't posted anything. You can't have something designed around a STORY without a STORY to design it from, savvy?

[Primal Fury]

And Inexorable Altering Lineage... is there a particular reason you limited them to half HD from the get-go?

Okay, this is REALLY bothering me, because I feel like I'm missing something. Do any of these Mythos give you access to the abilities of the creatures you turn in to?

[Amnoriath]

If you say so, but they still feel weak.

I feel like Hearkened Expedient Protos should be an Advanced Manifestation rather than an actual Mythos.

Dependable Rakish Facade feels more like an Exceptional Mythos than a Fantastic one.

And Inexorable Altering Lineage... is there a particular reason you limited them to half HD from the get-go?

1. Does it feel weak against say the Mythic Humans?
2. Of what though? That is the problem. The feat itself is easy to get but otherwise doesn't do much itself. So I added those other things to make it more economical when it uses other mythos that alter your Minor Shapechange
3. You get lots of free skill tricks and some feats along with other nice useful abilities. That is just the manifestations. I think it is just fine. It also gives some breathing room for the original rogue not to be stepped on too quickly.
4. It is so that you couldn't spam wishes and the like once you unlocked things like Outsiders pre-epic.

[Amnoriath]

Okay, this is REALLY bothering me, because I feel like I'm missing something. Do any of these Mythos give you access to the abilities of the creatures you turn in to?

Yes, read the second paragraph of the final Mythos.

[Amnoriath]

A helpful hint: Fluff is mandatory for Mythos material, that's why I haven't posted anything. You can't have something designed around a STORY without a STORY to design it from, savvy?

It isn't that I didn't I just wanted to get the crunch critiqued first.

[Primal Fury]

Yes, read the second paragraph of the final Mythos.

Could you make that a bit clearer? I'm not sure what "All racial characteristics" means on the face of it.

Does it feel weak against say the Mythic Humans?

Well yeah. You get to ignore alignment entirely sometimes, bonuses against divine magic, a constantly changing Feat and Skill Trick slot, and the ability to become a first level... ANYTHING so longs as it's a base class.

Compare also to the Reth Dekala. You get a stat boost, resistance to damage, fly, shoot lasers, and an Exalted Mythos when you're almost dead. That last one is REALLY good, no matter what class you're playing.

Of what though? That is the problem. The feat itself is easy to get but otherwise doesn't do much itself. So I added those other things to make it more economical when it uses other mythos that alter your Minor Shapechange

But it still doesn't do enough though. I'd really rather just buy the feat, or take a class mythos.

You get lots of free skill tricks and some feats along with other nice useful abilities. That is just the manifestations. I think it is just fine. It also gives some breathing room for the original rogue not to be stepped on too quickly.

They're nice abilities, but Mythos become more than bonus feats and skill tricks as they get higher in level. Besides, they're not free; you have to pay for each one beyond the first.

Also, about the fluff... I see the same problem here that I saw with the Fovian: It doesn't appear to build upon the cosmology that we're creating here. Which gods are these? Are these the Primordials? Are these the Lawgivers? Are these the gods the Lawgivers created? I'm not saying change everything, but maybe give a little nod to the fluff others have created.

[Amnoriath]

Could you make that a bit clearer? I'm not sure what "All racial characteristics" means on the face of it.


Well yeah. You get to ignore alignment entirely sometimes, bonuses against divine magic, a constantly changing Feat and Skill Trick slot, and the ability to become a first level... ANYTHING so longs as it's a base class.

Compare also to the Reth Dekala. You get a stat boost, resistance to damage, fly, shoot lasers, and an Exalted Mythos when you're almost dead. That last one is REALLY good, no matter what class you're playing.


But it still doesn't do enough though. I'd really rather just buy the feat, or take a class mythos.


They're nice abilities, but Mythos become more than bonus feats and skill tricks as they get higher in level. Besides, they're not free; you have to pay for each one beyond the first.

Also, about the fluff... I see the same problem here that I saw with the Fovian: It doesn't appear to build upon the cosmology that we're creating here. Which gods are these? Are these the Primordials? Are these the Lawgivers? Are these the gods the Lawgivers created? I'm not saying change everything, but maybe give a little nod to the fluff others have created.

1. It means everything the race has to offer.
2. a. You ignore alignment for Vile feats
b. You also must save against any Divine spell
c. Yes, nice but it still just one of each in which you still must meet the requirements.
d. At level 13, I can be any playable race with a racial feat of my choice right now.
3. a. A stat boost that gets knocked out after being hit with a small amount of damage.
b. a small amount in which actually you get more and differents one from an exceptional one of mine.
c. Yes, fly is good but isn't out of this one's capability
d. You make ranged unarmed attacks that are half fire.
e. Yes, ressurecting is cool and with a contingent exalted mythos is very powerful. However I don't think that is the standard in which to fully judge power in creating mythos. This though still only happens once a day.
(P.S. I am not here to bash them but the fact is the Reth Dekala were made to be strong flying blaster warriors like the Saiyans. You would never make one to do the things I pointed out mine to do. So, I really don't understand why you are comparing this to that.)
4. You would really rather waste one of your 7 feat slots rather than spend at most 1 out of your 12 mythos for something the same plus?
5. In which there are additional abilities with them as well. No, you don't pay for them as you get them from the mythos.
6. I will have to look I didn't realize everyone was keeping track of everyone else. Sorry

[Adam1949]

If I may make a few suggestions...

The Mythic Changeling: Would it be possible, instead, to call it 'The Mythic Doppelgänger'? That way, it could fit any sort of shapechanger of that lineage, including: Shifters, Doppelgangers, Changelings, Hengeyokai, and many others. So far, out of the mythic races made by Xefas, only one actually requires you to be a single race (The Kobold); each other covers many more (the Human covers anything with the [Human] tag, which is surprisingly high, while Reth Dekala could be practically anyone that isn't an [Outsider], really, and even THEN.)

Fluff: I've no room to talk about the fluff, since I'm not completely certain about it either. But, I agree in that it should look similar to the rest of it (or else you get stuck with my Vampire problem of describing something utterly wrong).

Lost Protean Visage: Generally speaking, the Mythic Feats are named "The X Legacy" or "The Legacy of X". Not saying that the name isn't bad, just that it doesn't fit with the running theme.
I already mentioned the racial thingy.
I like that it gives you a skill for free, actually. Very nice, although I will agree that the classes most likely to take it would already have it on the list (which is why they get Skill Focus instead, which is fair).
What exactly constitutes a 'racial feat'? Is it one that has the [Racial] tag? Anything you gain from a mythos from this feat? Clarity isn't my forte, is all.

The Names in General: It isn't strictly necessary to Mythos by the formula of [Adjective] [Adjective] [Noun]; trust me, you'll get less bored thinking of names that sound similar if you get more creative and/or start referencing outside sources (See: The Teramach's I WILL KILL YOUR DEATH and my own Grinding Bones To Make My Bread)

Prismatic Textural Mimicry: Why can't they have multicolored-or-textured locales? If they really are a mythic shapeshifter, than surely they can defeat the dreaded foes known as polkadots, yes?

Adaptive Climatic Vagabond: Granting Endurance as a feat... eeeehhh... In additon, why couldn't they gain all of the basic manifestations at once? Yes, it makes sense that they have to have been there first; no, it does not make sense that they have to spend an action of any kind using Minor Shapeshifting in order to do something that a legend could do automatically (as a free action).

Dependendable Rakish Facade: Two class skills and a feat. For a level 7 ability. I dunno, if I was, say, an Olethrofex... I'd rather just take Night of the Living Dead. Let me put it in perspective; that Mythos grants you, immediately, 14 zombies or skeletons to swamp a foe. Another comparison: Death-Mourning Phylactery Fission makes you Sauron or Voldemort at level 7 if you put 4 ranks into a Craft skill.
Now, granted, you DO gain basic manifestations on each of them... but again, you only gain a feat and what equates to a Rogue Talent.

Malleable Opalescent Physique: OK, now that is cool. THAT is a Fantastic Mythos; be your own Swiss Army Knife! Keep that.

Inexorable Altering Lineage: I'm gonna be honest, it needs buffed. Yes, someone COULD, technically, change into a Sarrukh and grant themselves infinite everything forever... at Level 13. By which point Pun-Pun won the game 12 and a half levels ago. In addition, an easy way to prevent that is to simply state that "Whenever you would alter for any reason, all changes that you have previously made to yourself are revoked". In this way, you could at maximum double any one ability score as a Sarrukh (or a Pun-Pun, if they GM decided that's in his Monster Manual). Since you're already limiting it to Humanoids and Monstrous Humanoids, and can only gain more by spending dos- I mean XP and MP on it one type at a time, it hardly seems unbalancing, especially when compared to the Teramach's "No, the Tarrasque is DEAD; D-E-A-D, DEAD" Mythos.

Overall, it's a good idea in need of a make-over. Granting a single feat isn't enough to be called a Mythos, and working it into the Grand Tapestry of the Mythic Legend would make it much easier to help improve it.

Also, as a suggestion (which I need to follow myself), when you have an idea, post it in the Mythos Discussion Thread! People there can help with ideas, balancing, and making sure that someone didn't already claim the idea first.

[Primal Fury]

1. It means everything the race has to offer.

Are you going to change the Mythos to reflect that? More information is better than less information.

2. a. You ignore alignment for Vile feats
b. You also must save against any Divine spell
c. Yes, nice but it still just one of each in which you still must meet the requirements.
d. At level 13, I can be any playable race with a racial feat of my choice right now.

Huh... I could swear it let you ignore your own alignment for the purposes of doing horrible things to people. Still really useful though.

It also applies to the spell-like abilities of Outsiders.

I still consider it very useful.

At level 13, the Mythic Lamia can tear souls to pieces and use them to fuel her powers. At level 13, the Illumian gets a big bonus to their lowest attribute, becomes an Outsider, can use Major Creation a bunch of times per day, AND force people to tell the truth by making their guts bleed, or something. Or the aforementioned "EVERYTHING I KILL STAYS DEAD" mythos from the Teramach.

However I don't think that is the standard in which to fully judge power in creating mythos.

Why?

(P.S. I am not here to bash them but the fact is the Reth Dekala were made to be strong flying blaster warriors like the Saiyans. You would never make one to do the things I pointed out mine to do. So, I really don't understand why you are comparing this to that.)

Again, why not? Why wouldn't you make a face-stealing Reth Dekala? The bloodline is more of a bonus, the class is where the meat comes from. I'd totally make an Ophidian Reth Dekala... if the Ophidian were available.

4. You would really rather waste one of your 7 feat slots rather than spend at most 1 out of your 12 mythos for something the same plus?

Yes, or simply not buy it at all. I want any Mythos I buy to feel BIG. This one doesn't feel big.

5. In which there are additional abilities with them as well. No, you don't pay for them as you get them from the mythos.

Yes you do. You have to pay for them with Mythos points and XP beyond the first.

[Amnoriath]

Are you going to change the Mythos to reflect that? More information is better than less information.

It also applies to the spell-like abilities of Outsiders.

I still consider it very useful.

At level 13, the Mythic Lamia can tear souls to pieces and use them to fuel her powers. At level 13, the Illumian gets a big bonus to their lowest attribute, becomes an Outsider, can use Major Creation a bunch of times per day, AND force people to tell the truth by making their guts bleed, or something. Or the aforementioned "EVERYTHING I KILL STAYS DEAD" mythos from the Teramach.


Why?


Again, why not? Why wouldn't you make a face-stealing Reth Dekala? The bloodline is more of a bonus, the class is where the meat comes from. I'd totally make an Ophidian Reth Dekala... if the Ophidian were available.


Yes, or simply not buy it at all. I want any Mythos I buy to feel BIG. This one doesn't feel big.


Yes you do. You have to pay for them with Mythos points and XP beyond the first.

1. Yes, I will
2. So, that is one group of enemies in which still is based of spell DC's. I would rather be able to benefit from divine casting than have to roll against one all the time with a bonus like that. So, unless you are running an anti or lax-divine campaign it is more of a detriment.
3. Compared to various skill like abilities and Swiss army tool blender.
4. a. In which it still has to kill them. Siphoning spells are easier. Yes, the advanced techniques are good but it really is just all battle supremacy.
b. They are allowed a will save to ignore rather minor damage. A fifth level crusader can ignore it even it fails the save. Major creation is good but they are still temporary and non-magical.
c. Again battle supremacy which just makes sure when people are defeated they stay that way.
4. Because it is a mythos to summon a contingent higher grade mythos after you died once. According to that than all Legendary mythos must have power equivalent to Exalted ones.
5. Because the Reth Dekala can't even come close to the skill sets mine has unless of course you take both feats.
6. It is exceptional, first or second level. I have seen higher mythos in which only grant up to non-hindering armor with an intimidation bonus. I see it is a low grade mythos that helps with the action economy of all of my mythos here.
7. Payment is an option you get 12 automatically not including manifestations which could be any one of those 12. You could get 22.

[Primal Fury]

2. So, that is one group of enemies in which still is based of spell DC's. I would rather be able to benefit from divine casting than have to roll against one all the time with a bonus like that. So, unless you are running an anti or lax-divine campaign it is more of a detriment.

Fair enough.

3. Compared to various skill like abilities and Swiss army tool blender.

Most of which require purchases of some sort. True, you can only have one skill trick in that slot at a time, but it can be ANY skill trick you want.

4. a. In which it still has to kill them. Siphoning spells are easier. Yes, the advanced techniques are good but it really is just all battle supremacy.

It doesn't actually have to kill them, you get smaller shards if you don't. These can be used to fuel your shapeshifting (to a points) or mind-controlling abilities as well. Though... I do tend to have many of my Mythos focused on combat; I should fix that with the next one.

7. Payment is an option you get 12 automatically not including manifestations which could be any one of those 12. You could get 22.

I'm referring to Manifestations. I wouldn't mind paying 500 Mythos points and 175 xp for some skill tricks, but I really wouldn't want to pay 2500 and 250 for them.

[Amnoriath]

If I may make a few suggestions...

The Mythic Changeling: Would it be possible, instead, to call it 'The Mythic Doppelgänger'? That way, it could fit any sort of shapechanger of that lineage, including: Shifters, Doppelgangers, Changelings, Hengeyokai, and many others. So far, out of the mythic races made by Xefas, only one actually requires you to be a single race (The Kobold); each other covers many more (the Human covers anything with the [Human] tag, which is surprisingly high, while Reth Dekala could be practically anyone that isn't an [Outsider], really, and even THEN.)

Fluff: I've no room to talk about the fluff, since I'm not completely certain about it either. But, I agree in that it should look similar to the rest of it (or else you get stuck with my Vampire problem of describing something utterly wrong).

Lost Protean Visage: Generally speaking, the Mythic Feats are named "The X Legacy" or "The Legacy of X". Not saying that the name isn't bad, just that it doesn't fit with the running theme.
I already mentioned the racial thingy.
I like that it gives you a skill for free, actually. Very nice, although I will agree that the classes most likely to take it would already have it on the list (which is why they get Skill Focus instead, which is fair).
What exactly constitutes a 'racial feat'? Is it one that has the [Racial] tag? Anything you gain from a mythos from this feat? Clarity isn't my forte, is all.

The Names in General: It isn't strictly necessary to Mythos by the formula of [Adjective] [Adjective] [Noun]; trust me, you'll get less bored thinking of names that sound similar if you get more creative and/or start referencing outside sources (See: The Teramach's I WILL KILL YOUR DEATH and my own Grinding Bones To Make My Bread)

Prismatic Textural Mimicry: Why can't they have multicolored-or-textured locales? If they really are a mythic shapeshifter, than surely they can defeat the dreaded foes known as polkadots, yes?

Adaptive Climatic Vagabond: Granting Endurance as a feat... eeeehhh... In additon, why couldn't they gain all of the basic manifestations at once? Yes, it makes sense that they have to have been there first; no, it does not make sense that they have to spend an action of any kind using Minor Shapeshifting in order to do something that a legend could do automatically (as a free action).

Dependendable Rakish Facade: Two class skills and a feat. For a level 7 ability. I dunno, if I was, say, an Olethrofex... I'd rather just take Night of the Living Dead. Let me put it in perspective; that Mythos grants you, immediately, 14 zombies or skeletons to swamp a foe. Another comparison: Death-Mourning Phylactery Fission makes you Sauron or Voldemort at level 7 if you put 4 ranks into a Craft skill.
Now, granted, you DO gain basic manifestations on each of them... but again, you only gain a feat and what equates to a Rogue Talent.



Inexorable Altering Lineage: I'm gonna be honest, it needs buffed. Yes, someone COULD, technically, change into a Sarrukh and grant themselves infinite everything forever... at Level 13. By which point Pun-Pun won the game 12 and a half levels ago. In addition, an easy way to prevent that is to simply state that "Whenever you would alter for any reason, all changes that you have previously made to yourself are revoked". In this way, you could at maximum double any one ability score as a Sarrukh (or a Pun-Pun, if they GM decided that's in his Monster Manual). Since you're already limiting it to Humanoids and Monstrous Humanoids, and can only gain more by spending dos- I mean XP and MP on it one type at a time, it hardly seems unbalancing, especially when compared to the Teramach's "No, the Tarrasque is DEAD; D-E-A-D, DEAD" Mythos.

Overall, it's a good idea in need of a make-over. Granting a single feat isn't enough to be called a Mythos, and working it into the Grand Tapestry of the Mythic Legend would make it much easier to help improve it.

Also, as a suggestion (which I need to follow myself), when you have an idea, post it in the Mythos Discussion Thread! People there can help with ideas, balancing, and making sure that someone didn't already claim the idea first.

1. Well I don't see Hengeyokai and Shifters as the same kind as they only have one shape or modification without feats. Shifters are also clearly Lycanthrope derived which seem to be force of nature. I also would find it very difficult to incorporate without outright giving them the namesake Changeling ability. In which at that point you are still only focusing on that ability and not the others.
2. Yes
3. Sure, alright
4. Yes, you can already make yourself polka-dotted it is just that you lose the benefit if you walk into earthen colored alleyway if you don't shift to match the alleyway.
5. It is an exceptional mythos though so I didn't want to out do what many other original prc's did 5+ levels earlier. I could add a clause to the Advanced Manifestations to have two at once, maybe?
6. I upped the skill points the abilities are fine at the level(14 weaklings and a couple thousand gold item that you count on being there or at least know where it is). I could do advanced ones though contingent on the former though to scale a bit more
7. Actually Pun Pun is level 5 and a Sarrukh is 14 HD. Honestly I don't see this as underpowered at all. You can dabble in any racial strategy or fully benefit from monsters that are still considered useful in the high levels with summon monster while still benefiting from your own. I could modify to humanoid and other type of choice. I will though add an advanced manifestation for a Protean form.

[Amnoriath]

Most of which require purchases of some sort. True, you can only have one skill trick in that slot at a time, but it can be ANY skill trick you want.


It doesn't actually have to kill them, you get smaller shards if you don't. These can be used to fuel your shapeshifting (to a points) or mind-controlling abilities as well. Though... I do tend to have many of my Mythos focused on combat; I should fix that with the next one.


I'm referring to Manifestations. I wouldn't mind paying 500 Mythos points and 175 xp for some skill tricks, but I really wouldn't want to pay 2500 and 250 for them.

1. You only pay for them if they are in addition to your basic and advanced manifestations. However I will change the structures a bit to reflect my intentions.
2. Minor Shapechange uses Disguise Self as a base. Do note that this class increases it to full replicate the spell and is able to act like specific not including the last mythos.
3. You still have two burn at least 2 standard actions to get the minimum needed for your crystal.
4. Again you don't pay if you use the slots on the chart. It is 1000 mythos points by the way.

[Primal Fury]

Again you don't pay if you use the slots on the chart.

True, but it is your intention that they buy more, correct? That's a lot of Basic Manifestations, and it seems difficult to choose just two and never look at the others again.

It is 1000 mythos points by the way.

By spending 1,000 Mythos Points, and 250xp, an Olethrofex may learn an Exceptional Mythos. A Fantastic Mythos requires 5,000 Mythos Points and 500xp. A Legendary Mythos takes 10,000 Mythos Points, and 1,000xp. And an Exalted Mythos takes 20,000 Mythos Points and 2,000xp.

For half the listed price for a given Tier, an Olethrofex may learn a Basic or Advanced manifestation of a Mythos they already know of that Tier.

[Amnoriath]

True, but it is your intention that they buy more, correct? That's a lot of Basic Manifestations, and it seems difficult to choose just two and never look at the others again.

1. You forgot the analogy I brought up. It is still more mythos than you have you feats available for yourself so it invalidates your first point in just taking the feat. Also is it really that horrible to sacrifice a masterwork weapon in the mid-high levels if you didn't take it at 1, 2, or 4?
2. I changed the lay out on some to bend the rules a bit. I at first thought you get one manifestation per new grade of mythos but I fixed it to reflect that.
3. You said 2500 before.

[Adam1949]

1. Well I don't see Hengeyokai and Shifters as the same kind as they only have one shape or modification without feats. Shifters are also clearly Lycanthrope derived which seem to be force of nature. I also would find it very difficult to incorporate without outright giving them the namesake Changeling ability. In which at that point you are still only focusing on that ability and not the others.

Fair enough. Still, I'd allow Doppelgangers to take the feat too.

4. Yes, you can already make yourself polka-dotted it is just that you lose the benefit if you walk into earthen colored alleyway if you don't shift to match the alleyway.

Is there any reason why a Mythic character couldn't mix-and-match their pattern? Answer: Not really. By simply taking a level in a Mythos class a character is already made of greater stuff than their compatriots; honestly, something as simple as 'quick, throw random backdrops behind the guy so he wastes his swift actions' shouldn't be able to beat them. In My Opinion, a Mythic Changeling should be able to change on reflex, like a superpowered Chameleon.

5. It is an exceptional mythos though so I didn't want to out do what many other original prc's did 5+ levels earlier. I could add a clause to the Advanced Manifestations to have two at once, maybe?

Literally, the only difference is that yours is currently 'Only One at a Time (although you have to pay for them still)' while my suggested change is 'Automatic change (you still have to buy them)'.

6. I upped the skill points the abilities are fine at the level(14 weaklings and a couple thousand gold item that you count on being there or at least know where it is). I could do advanced ones though contingent on the former though to scale a bit more

Gaining class skills does not a Mythos make. Also, I think you're looking at it from the wrong perspective: you aren't making 14 weaklings, you're rising up 14 undead minions and can do so every round until there's no more dead things to raise. You aren't making a paycheck-trinket, you're creating an evil (usually) artifact that will keep you permanently 'alive' and can later on start mind-controlling people. Essentially, both cause you to become a walking Quest. That is what a Mythos character is, after all; a questline, a myth, a legend.

7. Actually Pun Pun is level 5 and a Sarrukh is 14 HD. Honestly I don't see this as underpowered at all. You can dabble in any racial strategy or fully benefit from monsters that are still considered useful in the high levels with summon monster while still benefiting from your own. I could modify to humanoid and other type of choice. I will though add an advanced manifestation for a Protean form.

Spoiler

Show

Wizard 1, Dragonwrought, be old enough and put your stats into such a way that a Knowledge (the Planes) check will let you know that you can summon Pazuzu by going all Beetlejuice on him on a 9 or more. Starting as Lawful Good, ask him for a Lawful Evil Candle of Invocation (Your alignment is now LN). Summon an Efreeti with the candle. Use the 3 wishes. Wish 1: plane shift to the astral plane. Wish 2: Another candle of invocation and wish 3: another candle. Use one to summon a Sarruhk and have it manipulate your form to have manipulate form. Ascend.

OK, technically he'll be ECL 6 by the time you're done. My point still stands, though; the Mythos just seems too gimped to be any fun, as well as not strong enough in comparison to other Legendary Mythos.

[Primal Fury]

1. You forgot the analogy I brought up. It is still more mythos than you have you feats available for yourself so it invalidates your first point in just taking the feat.

Um... What? Are we talking about two different Mythos now? Because I'm talking about Dependable Rakish Facade, not Hearkened Expedient Protos. I'm not sure what you're saying here.

Also is it really that horrible to sacrifice a masterwork weapon in the mid-high levels if you didn't take it at 1, 2, or 4?

I guess not, but I'd really rather take a Mythos or Manifestation that gave me a bit more bang for my buck.

3. You said 2500 before.

Which is... half of 5000?

[Amnoriath]

Fair enough. Still, I'd allow Doppelgangers to take the feat too.


Is there any reason why a Mythic character couldn't mix-and-match their pattern? Answer: Not really. By simply taking a level in a Mythos class a character is already made of greater stuff than their compatriots; honestly, something as simple as 'quick, throw random backdrops behind the guy so he wastes his swift actions' shouldn't be able to beat them. In My Opinion, a Mythic Changeling should be able to change on reflex, like a superpowered Chameleon.



Gaining class skills does not a Mythos make. Also, I think you're looking at it from the wrong perspective: you aren't making 14 weaklings, you're rising up 14 undead minions and can do so every round until there's no more dead things to raise. You aren't making a paycheck-trinket, you're creating an evil (usually) artifact that will keep you permanently 'alive' and can later on start mind-controlling people. Essentially, both cause you to become a walking Quest. That is what a Mythos character is, after all; a questline, a myth, a legend.

Spoiler

Show

Wizard 1, Dragonwrought, be old enough and put your stats into such a way that a Knowledge (the Planes) check will let you know that you can summon Pazuzu by going all Beetlejuice on him on a 9 or more. Starting as Lawful Good, ask him for a Lawful Evil Candle of Invocation (Your alignment is now LN). Summon an Efreeti with the candle. Use the 3 wishes. Wish 1: plane shift to the astral plane. Wish 2: Another candle of invocation and wish 3: another candle. Use one to summon a Sarruhk and have it manipulate your form to have manipulate form. Ascend.

OK, technically he'll be ECL 6 by the time you're done. My point still stands, though; the Mythos just seems too gimped to be any fun, as well as not strong enough in comparison to other Legendary Mythos.

1. But who would honestly be a Doppleganger?
2. Mythic characters don't change the composition of their surroundings at level 1 for free. Even wizards outside of extraplanar help don't
3. a. The hit die is capped at 2xlevel, so yes 14 weaklings.
b. The flavor suggests that but it actually says nothing about a contingent resurrection or fully containing your soul to another body.
c. See my message
4. Except no one would ever be playing that. Compared to what other ones? Humans just gives a free modular class level. Kobolds just gain a size category and are just considered "True Blood". Others give you bonuses to Knowledge, Craft, Profession bonuses and Commune. Being able to become a full creature without losing any of your abilities or items along with a racial feat of your choice is quite powerful.

[Amnoriath]

Um... What? Are we talking about two different Mythos now? Because I'm talking about Dependable Rakish Facade, not Hearkened Expedient Protos. I'm not sure what you're saying here.


I guess not, but I'd really rather take a Mythos or Manifestation that gave me a bit more bang for my buck.

1. It got lost between quotes over the replies. Anyway I changed how you select Dependable Rakish Facade.
2. But if you choose at least 3 here it comes in handy. Some times you just need something to make an integral feature easy to use rather manage another. Is it flashy no, but if you are a dedicated Mythic Changeling it is far easier.

[Primal Fury]

1. It got lost between quotes over the replies. Anyway I changed how you select Dependable Rakish Facade.

Okay, that does feel a little better, but it still only grants you one unless you take it again later.

2. But if you choose at least 3 here it comes in handy. Some times you just need something to make an integral feature easy to use rather manage another. Is it flashy no, but if you are a dedicated Mythic Changeling it is far easier.

I understand that, but they're still really expensive considering what they do.