Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. II: It's A Magical Thread

[Tyndmyr]

I find it a bit odd that they seem to keep making bringing Coulson back to be some ethical quandry. Yeah, I'm sure it hurt. But, yknow, we do surgery without anesthetics right now when we need to save someone.

In fact, given that the brain lacks pain receptors, that rebuilding part would be like, yknow, laser eye surgery. Which is done pretty much constantly without anesthetics, and nobody has some big ethical hubbub about that.

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Even worse, while pain is apparently a good reason to let someone die, it's more than acceptable to break into someone's place and kill some random guards who know nothing to save them.

It's...kind of a moral whiplash. How is the first such a BIG issue that it keeps being brought back up, and the latter is just, yknow, whatever. Kill 'em all.

(Not spoiled, because seriously, if you didn't realize Coulson had been brought back, you didn't even watch the trailer for the pilot or Avengers)

That said, the has...greatly improved. I would postulate that who has focus is a huge part of this. I'm not overly fond of the Skye centric stuff, but Coulson is pretty awesome, as are the scientists.

[Kitten Champion]

Skye's grown on me as a character. To the point that I don't want her to die and be removed from the show, but not to where I particularly look forward to her screen time. She works well enough off others, and feels a lot less the annoyingly snarky Mary Sue of the show she started out as. I like what they're doing with Coulson now as well. He's clearly not the same man as the beginning of the series and that change has made him more interesting and was developed well over the course of the last 6 episodes or so.

On the other hand, I agree with Palanan.

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They took this possibly interesting villain and really made her fit into a minor part of their internal drama rather than developing her into something interesting and threatening. I would have had her around for a few episodes, possibly approached by the Centipede/Clairvoyant's people and brought into the main plot. I would then have Jaime Alexander show up to help bring her down later, preferably without announcing she was coming first. Anyways, she certainly should have done more villainous things than start a barfight and rape Ward.

Also Jaime Alexander clearly needs good direction, an intimidating presence she is not. Compared to Ming Na's portrayal of May, it's so very underwhelming.

[Thrawn183]

I find it a bit odd that they seem to keep making bringing Coulson back to be some ethical quandry. Yeah, I'm sure it hurt. But, yknow, we do surgery without anesthetics right now when we need to save someone.

In fact, given that the brain lacks pain receptors, that rebuilding part would be like, yknow, laser eye surgery. Which is done pretty much constantly without anesthetics, and nobody has some big ethical hubbub about that.

The right to refuse medical treatment, which Coulson clearly did, is a very big deal.

[huttj509]

The right to refuse medical treatment, which Coulson clearly did, is a very big deal.

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Also, bringing someone back, using chemicals being produced by the body of a humanoid creature (implying capability of thought and rationality) can be a major ethical issue.

If the body's still producing all these chemicals, is it still alive? Preserved in stasis so that it can be harvested?

"Let me die." Was that Coulson talking? Or was it the alien through Coulson, via chemical connection with his at the time unliving body?

[BWR]

Another meh episode. Nothing really exciting or gripping, I'm just interested in seeing where the plot is headed. In this respect it really is a good comic story: I generally find reading about the events on Wikipedia/whatever far more interesting than reading the actual comics. Fun ideas, badly written.

[Chen]

That was a super contrived episode.

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Why would you send armed MEN after Lorelei after Sif told you her powers only work on men? You clearly have capable women (like May) in SHIELD, so why not send them?

And WHY did Ward just let Lorelei come up to him and touch him? I mean come on, they told you she needed to touch strong willed individual men to convert them. He had his night-night gun aimed RIGHT at her. Why not just shoot her repeatedly? It's not going to kill her. These aren't cops using less-lethal weapons where you're supposed to be showing restraint. We're talking super-villain evil beings and you're a black ops government agency with weapons that magically have no consequences. These guys would be shooting first ALL the time.

May also seems to be the super rational cold person, yet she decides to break up with Ward because he did bad things while completely mind controlled? Sif told her an Asgardian she was close to couldn't resist Lorelei's powers, so why would Ward be any different?

I'm also somewhat confused as to why Coulson is so freaked out over alien blood/juice/whatever being used to bring him back. Enough that he was willing to let Skye die to not have it in her. At least Skye brings him back to reality in saying "uh we're alive and nothing bad seems to be happening to you".

[huttj509]

That was a super contrived episode.

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May also seems to be the super rational cold person, yet she decides to break up with Ward because he did bad things while completely mind controlled? Sif told her an Asgardian she was close to couldn't resist Lorelei's powers, so why would Ward be any different?

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Or because Lorelei told her Ward was in love with someone else, and she knew it was true.

[LaZodiac]

Spoiler: Thor 2 Dark World speculation/spoiler

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So... did you think it was Odin/Odin or Loki/Odin who sent Sif to capture Lorelai... Eh? Eh?!

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100% Loki. Oh my goodness.

That was a super contrived episode.

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Why would you send armed MEN after Lorelei after Sif told you her powers only work on men? You clearly have capable women (like May) in SHIELD, so why not send them?

And WHY did Ward just let Lorelei come up to him and touch him? I mean come on, they told you she needed to touch strong willed individual men to convert them. He had his night-night gun aimed RIGHT at her. Why not just shoot her repeatedly? It's not going to kill her. These aren't cops using less-lethal weapons where you're supposed to be showing restraint. We're talking super-villain evil beings and you're a black ops government agency with weapons that magically have no consequences. These guys would be shooting first ALL the time.

May also seems to be the super rational cold person, yet she decides to break up with Ward because he did bad things while completely mind controlled? Sif told her an Asgardian she was close to couldn't resist Lorelei's powers, so why would Ward be any different?

I'm also somewhat confused as to why Coulson is so freaked out over alien blood/juice/whatever being used to bring him back. Enough that he was willing to let Skye die to not have it in her. At least Skye brings him back to reality in saying "uh we're alive and nothing bad seems to be happening to you".

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If you listen, all the nameless grunts they have with them are women. So there's that.

I think a part of Ward wanted her to touch him, to see if he could handle it. He also thought maybe it would get rid of the berserker staff stuff still inside of him. That's my head canon, anyway.

The problem Coulson has with the alien thing is that, one, it's an alien. We don't know what the **** is up with it. Especially since, even according to Siff, no aliens have contacted humanity since the Frost Giants, millenia ago. The second point is, when it was injected into Coulson, he started begging to be killed. He doesn't want something like that to happen to Skye.

Anyway, thoughts on the episode:

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Lorelei is coming back in a movie. Odin specifically wanted her alive, and Odin is Loki right now so...

Also, I like how it seems that May is a double agent. It's a nice twist that I did NOT see coming.

Finally, a theory. Skye was named Skye because "She's the sky child". The villagers that were taking care of her knew to some degree that she was of alien origin, and thus named her as such.

[Pex]

To Whom It May Concern In Hollywood,

As per the contract to have an action drama series exist on television, we hereby submit our obligatory male-bashing episode.

Sincerely,
Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D

[Clertar]

This episode had premium levels of Coulson anticlimax.

Also:

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[LordRahl6]

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There was an article up last week on Yahoo that asked who the blue alien was, and what repercussions the injection would have on Skye given her status as an 0-8-4. One of the theories involved the Carpithians(Skrull) and the Kree regarding the upcoming movie Guardians of the Galaxy. Specifically that Skye was of one species and that G.H. was the other. The resulting transfusion would produce Ms. Marvel.

[BRC]

General Episode thoughts

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S.H.I.E.L.D was pretty stupid here. You HAVE plenty of capable female agents, (The SWAT team they storm the Vegas room with was all-women), and yet they kept bringing Ward and Coulson along. Why?

Sif told them directly "Lorelai can control any man she talks to, some she needs to touch".
In what world is "Send our most capable Male agent to guard the back door alone" a good idea? Especially since they're not worrying about Lorelai's goons escaping, just Her.
He is literally serving no purpose there, unless they think he can take down an asgardian before she can touch him.
Send May to guard the back door, send Sif in the front. If Lorelai makes a run for it then May has a better chance of buying time until Sif shows up?

That said, I DID like that this episode remembered that the Team is part of a big organization that can spare commandos when they need additional firepower.

I actually liked Skye here, she did basically nothing, which helped, but her reaction to Coulson was rational and in-character. "Who cares about the side-effects or where this stuff came from, I WAS GOING TO DIE. Anything besides "Dead" is a step up"

They're hitting the "Nick Fury is central to this plot but we can't afford Samuel L. Jackson" button a little hard. I bet they're really regretting wasting him on a thirty second cameo after the second episode.

May breaking up with Ward I get. May was never emotionally invested in the relationship, Ward was. Learning that Ward had feelings for somebody else on the team means that their relationship is likely to get more complicated, so May ends things. She's a professional, and I respect that.
That said, I know that it's going to be Special Snowflake Skye, but I would like it better if it was Simmons, or we learn that Ward is bi and only has eyes for Fitz.
Just something to establish that Skye is just a talented Hacker, good friend, and pet project of Coulson's, rather than THE GREATEST PERSON TO EVER LOOK CUTE WHILE USING A LAPTOP WHO EVERYBODY LOVES DESPITE THAT TIME SHE BETRAYED THEM!

May being a spy I get as well. Probably for Fury (Although he's likely to be represented by the more-affordable Maria Hill). They've done too much work making May a good character to have her have been Evil All This Time.
Things seem to be building to a confrontation of some sort with SHIELD. Ideally this would be with Fury, but they probably can't afford Samuel L. Jackson, so we're more likely to see Hill or some other stand-in representing Fury's Agenda.

Speaking of Skye, remember the Rising Tide? That cool hook about a pseudoanarchist hacker collective dedicated to telling the world about all the aliens and superheroes that SHIELD is trying to cover up? That was a REALLY cool idea.

PLEASE tell me the Rising Tide was not just Skye in her van? Because they haven't come up since (Except for Skye's Hackerboyfriend), and they are an excellent plot hook.

The early part of the season was demonstrating that SHIELD was the good guys, now they're making SHIELD increasingly shady and questionable (at least as it concerns Coulson's Resurrection). Bringing back the Rising Tide would work well as a contrast. The Shady order of SHIELD vs the well-intentioned anarchy of the Rising Tide.

That said, this episode demonstrated why the two guards at the Guest House got characterization, to drive home how invested somebody was to keeping the place a secret.

Sure, in-universe it's the same as using two random mooks, but letting the guards banter drives home that these are real people, willing to kill and die to keep this place a secret.

[Reverent-One]

General Episode thoughts

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They're hitting the "Nick Fury is central to this plot but we can't afford Samuel L. Jackson" button a little hard. I bet they're really regretting wasting him on a thirty second cameo after the second episode.

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I doubt it's a money issue. Coulson being able to find Fury easily would bring the plot to a head immediately rather than letting them use it a side/main plot and keep the mystery for the next several episodes.

[BRC]

One more thing

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So, Coulson goes to let Sif out of the box, Fitz blocks him.

Mind controlled Fitz is basically a puppy, which makes sense for how he would react to Lorelei's style of mind control, he's not especially deceptive or cunning.
Coulson fakes being under mind control as well and goes back to help the girls, later knocking out Fitz.

My question is, why didn't Coulson just take out Fitz then and there? Coulson's combat trained, not at Ward or May's level, but he could do it. He drops a distracted-Fitz with a Comic Book Style 1-hit KO later. I'm pretty sure he could incapacitate him pretty easily.
Just take out Fitz, and let Sif out of the box?

[LaZodiac]

One more thing

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So, Coulson goes to let Sif out of the box, Fitz blocks him.

Mind controlled Fitz is basically a puppy, which makes sense for how he would react to Lorelei's style of mind control, he's not especially deceptive or cunning.
Coulson fakes being under mind control as well and goes back to help the girls, later knocking out Fitz.

My question is, why didn't Coulson just take out Fitz then and there? Coulson's combat trained, not at Ward or May's level, but he could do it. He drops a distracted-Fitz with a Comic Book Style 1-hit KO later. I'm pretty sure he could incapacitate him pretty easily.
Just take out Fitz, and let Sif out of the box?

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Coulson wanted to cover his bases. Get them out, THEN deal with Fitz.

Also it's entirely possible he had the plan to trap Sif and Lorelei in the Cage.

[RoboChap]

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Coulson wanted to cover his bases. Get them out, THEN deal with Fitz.

Also it's entirely possible he had the plan to trap Sif and Lorelei in the Cage.

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I saw it more as a "Coulson has just realised that Ward is on the flying-boat, making a scene now will bring him running". Getting away and releasing allies first before Ward gets a chance to stop him is the smarter play in my book.

[The New Bruceski]

The best line in this episode was more a punchline to a running gag.

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"I haven't had a chance to ask, how was Tahiti?"

"It sucked."

[The New Bruceski]

And for anyone keeping track, next week isn't another SHIELD episode. Instead it's a Marvel behind-the-scenes with extended looks at Winter Soldier, Guardians of the Galaxy, the rest of the season of SHIELD, and world premiere look at Avengers 2: Age of Ultron.

[LaZodiac]

And for anyone keeping track, next week isn't another SHIELD episode. Instead it's a Marvel behind-the-scenes with extended looks at Winter Soldier, Guardians of the Galaxy, the rest of the season of SHIELD, and world premiere look at Avengers 2: Age of Ultron.

Yay, more things not to watch because I have a Zero Trailers policy

[HamHam]

The right to refuse medical treatment, which Coulson clearly did, is a very big deal.

Eh. That generally presupposes that the patient is in some general sense in a right state of mind.

I agree with Skye on this. The risk of Space Cancer or whatever is better than dead. In fact, basically anything is better than dead.

As for the latest episode:

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That scene with Ward getting controlled was terrible. There are literally dozens of other ways you could have done it to not make Ward look like an incompetent moron, but instead they went with this. Whoever made that decision should be embarrassed at how bad a writer they are.

[Eldan]

To Whom It May Concern In Hollywood,

As per the contract to have an action drama series exist on television, we hereby submit our obligatory male-bashing episode.

Sincerely,
Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D

And now I do wonder why no one ever does an Incubus.

Well, not Incubus as in violent rapist. As in male creature using the Succubus MO in mind controlling women by seduction.

[Pex]

And now I do wonder why no one ever does an Incubus.

Well, not Incubus as in violent rapist. As in male creature using the Succubus MO in mind controlling women by seduction.

I don't object to Lorelai. It's her superpower. For sake of the show and universe, it's fine. Sif's initial comment was fine. She was being sincere. May's reaction wasn't, but I let it go. They could have left it at that, just be a joke, but no, they had to tag it at the end with FitzSimmons. That was the sucker punch that ruined the entire episode.

[Jallorn]

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That scene with Ward getting controlled was terrible. There are literally dozens of other ways you could have done it to not make Ward look like an incompetent moron, but instead they went with this. Whoever made that decision should be embarrassed at how bad a writer they are.

That actually would've been the Director, rather than the writer. The writer would just have the lines and something along the lines of, "Lorelei touches Ward." The Director decides how that looks exactly.

[Flickerdart]

To be fair to Ward, we don't know that Lorelei's power is binary. Her voice could have had some measure of effect on him - not enough to make him turn, but enough to make him hesitate.

Until he got whisked away to Vegas, I was hoping that the team had thought ahead and maybe given him earplugs or something, so he was only pretending to be mind-controlled. Because there was literally no other reason for him to confront her alone, or at all.

What I'm really curious about is if Lorelei's magic is more powerful than Coulson's love for Lola.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Flickerdart
To be fair to Ward, we don't know that Lorelei's power is binary. Her voice could have had some measure of effect on him - not enough to make him turn, but enough to make him hesitate.

I had the impression that Lorelei could influence men just by her voice and proximity, with complete domination established by the touch. So I'm assuming that's part of what was going on--Lorelei was able to affect him enough to make him hesitate, waver, second-guess himself.

I'm also assuming Ward is still believing he's the one-man solution, and he was probably telling himself, "I got this...I got this...damn she's fine...I got this...."

Originally Posted by Flickerdart
What I'm really curious about is if Lorelei's magic is more powerful than Coulson's love for Lola.

Now that's dangerous territory. Asgard hath no fury like a hovercar scorned.

[Cheesegear]

Now that's dangerous territory. Asgard hath no fury like a hovercar scorned.

Actually, 'Hel' still works. Since we're talking Marvel U though, 'Hela' is correct in this instance. Hel/a is also a very angry lady.

[Pex]

What would have been interesting if there was a male agent who actually was immune to Lorelai. The reason: he's gay. Could even have a one-liner that was how homosexuality started, a human defense mechanism against Lorelai in the past. Leave it to the viewer to decide whether that was a joke or in-universe truth.

It wouldn't be Coulson because he already has a story arc and is the show's McGuffin for existing. They've decided to sex up Ward with shirtless scenes "for the ladies", typical, but for it to be Ward would mean a bold statement the show doesn't need. It would fall to Fitz which fits the stereotype and retcon his previous shyness towards women as more reluctance and confusion. However, the most likely scenario would be a guest agent relevant for the episode. It wouldn't be Agent Extra but rather someone we already know. Enter Bill Paxton.

This isn't my idea. It's taken from "Elementary" where an F.B.I agent guarding an imprisoned Moriarty was purposely assigned for being gay so that she can't charm her way to escape.

[Hytheter]

Seconding "It sucked" as a highlight of the episode.

And now I do wonder why no one ever does an Incubus.

That would definitely provoke some controversy I think...

Personally I didn't think the episode was so bad, from a "male bashing" perspective.

[Cheesegear]

It wouldn't be Agent Extra but rather someone we already know. Enter Bill Paxton [as a gay agent].

His antagonism towards Ward makes so much more sense now.

[TheOldCrow]

Eh. That generally presupposes that the patient is in some general sense in a right state of mind.

I agree with Skye on this. The risk of Space Cancer or whatever is better than dead. In fact, basically anything is better than dead.

I dunno.

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When it comes to what happened to Coulson, there is a lot in the way of ethical quandaries. A lot of Coulson's fears seem to come from the unknowns about his situation. His memory was altered, the memories he does have are sketchy, his file that was supposed to explain everything is fabricated to make it look like it took place in a legitimate medical facility when it was anything but, the actual "medical facility" seems to be using alien dna to make drugs, and the people who can answer his questions have disappeared, and the two people with medical knowledge who Coulson talked to (Streiten and Simmons) were both aghast at what had been done to him.

Has Skye even been told yet what happened to Coulson? May, Simmons and Fitz all read the file, and Ward was told, but I had the feeling that Skye was being kept in the dark while she recovered.

I had the impression that Lorelei could influence men just by her voice and proximity, with complete domination established by the touch. So I'm assuming that's part of what was going on--Lorelei was able to affect him enough to make him hesitate, waver, second-guess himself.

I'm also assuming Ward is still believing he's the one-man solution, and he was probably telling himself, "I got this...I got this...damn she's fine...I got this...."

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I read the scene the same way. Sif said something about Lorelei being able to influence men with her voice. I just figured that's what happened to Ward.

I hope the show deals with the effect on Ward of being mind controlled and forced to do those things. It is a pretty awful thing to happen to someone.