Why does everyone love Planar Binding?

[Deophaun]

But the dimensional anchor is a separate spell, which means it can be dispelled.

If the dimensional anchor was cast inside the circle, sure. But it's cast on the circle, which means dispelling it would a) disturb the circle and b) cross the circle, so can't do that.

Really, it's meant to be the perfect trap for a host of creatures that tend to have (greater) dispel magic as an at-will SLA ability, provided the spellcaster prepares it correctly. The correct way to deal with abuse has already been stated: disruptive bindings attract unwanted attention.

[Particle_Man]

As far as I can tell, "If you roll a 1 on the Charisma check, the creature breaks free of the binding and can escape or attack you." means if you roll a 1 on the die, meaning the creature always has a 5% chance of breaking free regardless of how high your charisma score is.

So planar binding is always risky when I DM (although of course if the party is able to take out a creature that can break free, more power to the party).

[Rubik]

As far as I can tell, "If you roll a 1 on the Charisma check, the creature breaks free of the binding and can escape or attack you." means if you roll a 1 on the die, meaning the creature always has a 5% chance of breaking free regardless of how high your charisma score is.

So planar binding is always risky when I DM (although of course if the party is able to take out a creature that can break free, more power to the party).

Yay rerolls!

I like to invest in them for just this type of situation.

[ryu]

Yay rerolls!

I like to invest in them for just this type of situation.

Preferably arbitrarily large amounts of them if possible. I've lost 1/8,000 chance to fail situations before. We crushed that D20 in a vice afterwords, but the point of possibly severe unluck stands.

[Psyren]

Preferably arbitrarily large amounts of them if possible. I've lost 1/8,000 chance to fail situations before. We crushed that D20 in a vice afterwords, but the point of possibly severe unluck stands.

By any chance, did you play R2-D2 in a Star Wars campaign slash webcomic?

[ryu]

By any chance, did you play R2-D2 in a Star Wars campaign slash webcomic?

Nawp. I like power. I am inherently against the very concept of cheating though.

[Rubik]

By any chance, did you play R2-D2 in a Star Wars campaign slash webcomic?

>.>

Did someone say...slash?

<.<

[Psyren]

>.>

Did someone say...slash?

<.<

Lol! I meant the punctuation mark.

[Rubik]

Lol! I meant the punctuation mark.

Crud. I like slash.

Well, well-written slash, anyway.

Also, entirely unrelated. It just updated!

[ryu]

Crud. I like slash.

Well, well-written slash, anyway.

Also, entirely unrelated. It just updated!

I'm a methods of rationality man myself.

[Rubik]

I'm a methods of rationality man myself.

No reason you can't like both...

...AND slash. Though it's just as well that we can't mix and match.

[mangosta71]

Picking through spell descriptions yields some interesting tidbits.

When focused inward, the spell binds a nongood called creature (such as those called by the lesser planar binding, planar binding, and greater planar binding spells) for a maximum of 24 hours per caster level, provided that you cast the spell that calls the creature within 1 round of casting the magic circle.

A successful diagram allows you to cast a dimensional anchor spell on the magic circle during the round before casting any summoning spell.

So, by RAW, you cast the Magic Circle, then the next round you cast Dimensional Anchor, and then the next round you cast whatever summon spell. But by then you're outside the 1 round window that the Circle allows for summoning, especially given that preparing the diagram takes 10 minutes.

Also by RAW, the circle has a 3 foot diameter. This means that many outsiders/elementals are too large to fit inside.

If a creature too large to fit into the spell’s area is the subject of the spell, the spell acts as a normal protection from evil spell for that creature only.

And then we get into RP difficulties. Summoning a creature and forcing it to serve you or die is slavery (Evil), no matter the alignment of the creature summoned. Any Good-aligned party members will have ethical issues with you doing this. Any paladins will be obligated to stop you or fall.

But, ya know, if you haven't provoked your DM's wrath by abusing the spell, he might let a few RAW things slide. And as long as you aren't doing Evil things you won't have to fight the rest of your party.

[Particle_Man]

And then we get into RP difficulties. Summoning a creature and forcing it to serve you or die is slavery (Evil), no matter the alignment of the creature summoned. Any Good-aligned party members will have ethical issues with you doing this. Any paladins will be obligated to stop you or fall.

One way around that is to use the Malconvoker, who, if you play one, then "Starting at 6th level, you become exceptionally adept at convincing evil creatures you call that your intentions parallel their own". So basically you trick them into thinking this is a Planar Ally spell instead.

[Sam K]

Regarding "really good deals" ... we're talking about giving some reasonable discount for the attempted binding agreement that's about to be brokered by the spellcaster and the DM. With the DM expecting it to be played out appropriately. Expecting detailed binding dialogue and the caster using the successfully researched background knowledge that's being delivered with creative RP salesmanship interaction. Specifically taking into consideration the extraordinary effort that the spellcaster took in doing the extraneous background research and allocating/expending the appropriate character resources to find the specific creature who fits her customization needs (as mentioned in my prior post).

As far as the unlikelyness of the scenario you mentioned above. Of course. But we're talking about the spellcaster spending extraordinary time, effort and resources to locate the Outsider who is that statistical outlier who would fanatically jump at the opportunity to destroy hated ancestral foes ... and who are possibly in a current situation in their Outer Planes existence where they don't have access to accomplish those desires.

This specific angle has been written about in a number of fantasy novels over the years. Especially in Forgotten Realms novels during both the TSR and WotC years. So it's not without precedence.

Well, I've got nothing to argue with there :)

Actually, I just got a funny idea: if your enemy is known to have summoned eferets to gain wishes, and you can do your research, YOU can summon them and get wishes in exchange for killing him. Nothing prevents you bargining the same deed to several creatures, they would likely be quite willing, AND they may give you some hints of his capabilities based on the wishes they granted him.

[Rubik]

Well, I've got nothing to argue with there :)
Actually, I just got a funny idea: if your enemy is known to have summoned eferets to gain wishes, and you can do your research, YOU can summon them and get wishes in exchange for killing him. Nothing prevents you bargining the same deed to several creatures, they would likely be quite willing, AND they may give you some hints of his capabilities based on the wishes they granted him.

eFerrets? fluffy

[Psyren]

Someone earlier in the thread mentioned efreet intimidating commoners and thieves into making wishes on their behalf, and (if they felt especially charitable) rewarding them with trinkets. This further begs the question as to why they would be sitting around with their wishes unused just waiting to be trapped by upstart magi. Further, they (like all genies) can plane shift at will to the material; doing so prevents them from being caught by planar binding at all since they are no longer on another plane.

So an efreet with wishes can simply pop over to the material a few days in advance, loiter around until it finds a patsy to use them up, and once they are all gone, head home, being sure to repeat this process every year.

[Rubik]

Someone earlier in the thread mentioned efreet intimidating commoners and thieves into making wishes on their behalf, and (if they felt especially charitable) rewarding them with trinkets. This further begs the question as to why they would be sitting around with their wishes unused just waiting to be trapped by upstart magi. Further, they (like all genies) can plane shift at will to the material; doing so prevents them from being caught by planar binding at all since they are no longer on another plane.

So an efreet with wishes can simply pop over to the material a few days in advance, loiter around until it finds a patsy to use them up, and once they are all gone, head home, being sure to repeat this process every year.

Efreet gain 3 Wishes to bestow 1/day. How long does Planar Binding last, exactly?

[Psyren]

My bad, thought it was 1/year, guess I was thinking Zodar.

[TuggyNE]

So, by RAW, you cast the Magic Circle, then the next round you cast Dimensional Anchor, and then the next round you cast whatever summon spell. But by then you're outside the 1 round window that the Circle allows for summoning, especially given that preparing the diagram takes 10 minutes.

You prepare the diagram before casting any of the spells. That's not a problem.

Dimensional anchor is trickier, but I guess you should invest in Quickening it in some way, or just have an ally with a readied action.

Also by RAW, the circle has a 3 foot diameter. This means that many outsiders/elementals are too large to fit inside.

Oddly, that's not the area, merely part of the (arcane) material component*; it is not entirely clear whether that's adjustable or even relevant for inward-focused circles, while the 10'-radius area certainly should be. Anything that can't even squeeze into a 20' circle is a different matter, of course.

* Which means that text is entirely irrelevant for anyone using Eschew Materials, or any divine caster.

[Telok]

In my campaigns most wish granting beings have dimensionally locked thier homes to prevent this sort of thing. Indeed, not only is 98% of the City of Brass not accessable via teleport, plane shift, and summon/calling, but there's a pretty big cross dimensional trade in magic Rings of Dimensional Lock.

There's no reason for an efreet to come to the prime material plane, there are plenty of non-genie inhabitants on the of fire for them to intimidate and enslave. Azer, mephit, rast, salamander, elementals.

[Psyren]

If they come to the material they can't be Bound anyway.

[TiaC]

The talk about binding Lantern Archons earlier made me want to bind one and install streetlights in a massive city. It doesn't sleep or get tired and can cast millions of Continual Flames with up to 60' of movement between each one. This should be enough to light a large city. It would likely reduce crime, so the Archon would be willing to do so.

[NichG]

Moderately related: in my current campaign, one of the PCs has a power that lets them summon things more or less at will and without prep. He does not have the power to bind them, however, and there is a roll associated with what he's trying to summon (something always shows up, but if he fails the roll its something similar but wrong).

He's keeping a running total of all the various favors he owes and has discharged, which include being reverse-summoned at some point to serve a spirit of water, obtaining revenge on another summoner on behalf of an efreet, feeding a relic that belonged to a king to a Fu dog, and a particularly complex order to provide tea during a particular astrological conjunction.

All in all, it's been a lot more interesting this way than 'apply foolproof way of compelling service, profit' or 'summoned creature refuses to cooperate no matter what'. He still uses summons extensively since they've never outright screwed him on the deals/service (well, once kinda, when he accidentally summoned a Bonnacon), but there's always some kind of price and it always involves some sort of effort to pay off.

[Miss Disaster]

I would recommend bypassing the Dimensional Anchor component and instead have the PB spellcaster be buffed-up with the ongoing spell Investiture of the Orthon (FC2) - which has a duration of 1 minute / CL.

The dimensional locking aura gives no save and no SR to the bound creature(s). It's a totally superior spell option to DA (because IotO also has a bunch of secondary and tertiary benefits), but it's 1 level higher (5th level).

[Graypairofsocks]

So, by RAW, you cast the Magic Circle, then the next round you cast Dimensional Anchor, and then the next round you cast whatever summon spell. But by then you're outside the 1 round window that the Circle allows for summoning, especially given that preparing the diagram takes 10 minutes.

Magic Circle against Evil allows you to add a special diagram to the trap version of the spell which allows you to use Dimensional Anchor on the Magic Circle before you cast the summoning spell:

You can add a special diagram (a two-dimensional bounded figure with no gaps along its circumference, augmented with various magical sigils) to make the magic circle more secure. Drawing the diagram by hand takes 10 minutes and requires a DC 20 Spellcraft check. You do not know the result of this check. If the check fails, the diagram is ineffective. You can take 10 when drawing the diagram if you are under no particular time pressure to complete the task. This task also takes 10 full minutes. If time is no factor at all, and you devote 3 hours and 20 minutes to the task, you can take 20.

A successful diagram allows you to cast a dimensional anchor spell on the magic circle during the round before casting any summoning spell. The anchor holds any called creatures in the magic circle for 24 hours per caster level. A creature cannot use its spell resistance against a magic circle prepared with a diagram, and none of its abilities or attacks can cross the diagram. If the creature tries a Charisma check to break free of the trap (see the lesser planar binding spell), the DC increases by 5. The creature is immediately released if anything disturbs the diagram—even a straw laid across it. However, the creature itself cannot disturb the diagram either directly or indirectly, as noted above.