"Today is victory over yourself. Tomorrow is your victory over lesser men."

[VoodooPaladin]

And, yes, every one of the Teramach's Mythos falls into "do violence at the problem" or "threaten/prepare to do violence at the problem." The Bellator is filtering this through the lens of preternatural skill at arms. One can easily fit into the Monster's monomyth ("If it is a violent means, the Monster can accomplish it through me"), while the other must be written into the Bellator's ("If I can do it, I can excel at it, and thus my story is written").

The difference is more visible in practice, I'd imagine. Here's another way to look at it:

As the Teramach represents Violence, the Bellator represents War. War is not just Violence: it is competition and cooperation writ large. War is inherently contextualized in terms of its effects on those involved - victory, defeat, valor, skill: these things mean nothing to the puppets of the Monster. The Bellator sees trials and tribulations, victories and defeats, pain, confusion, and life, whereas the Teramach sees only blood spilled, and blood yet to be spilled.

[Draken]

...Gonna stop you here.

The Teramach has a Mythos that lets him kill people back to life.

Every bit of the Monster's monomyth is violence, pure and simple. The threat of violence is, itself, violence. Anger is impetus to act, the threat of violence which is, itself, violence. Every Mythos carries either the idea of using violence to solve whatever issue is at hand, or the threat of violence to do the same.

And, yes, every one of the Teramach's Mythos falls into "do violence at the problem" or "threaten/prepare to do violence at the problem." The Bellator is filtering this through the lens of preternatural skill at arms. One can easily fit into the Monster's monomyth ("If it is a violent means, the Monster can accomplish it through me"), while the other must be written into the Bellator's ("If I can do it, I can excel at it, and thus my story is written").

I said "just about".

The teramach is also about anger, it can't do its most violent miracles with a clear mind. It is also about fear, (which I guess is a psychological violence).

Just because you can reduce the understanding of a mythos set to a single phrase, doesn't mean that is the only phrase that fits.

[Salbazier]

Xrfas, did you divorce yourself from your earlier homebrew such as the Primordialist? I'm pretty sure it used to be in your homebrew signature.

[Tempestfury]

Talking of previous homebrew. Are we ever going to see the Exalted Mythos for Kathodos?

[Allnightmask]

Or more soulmelds of the dreamer?

[Winds]

The debate about Teramach's [Protaganism-Devouring Legend Singularity] against Bellator's [My Story Doesn't End Here] made me think of a possible subsystem to resolve this.


Fluff:

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But this isn't the only story. There are other legends, after all. What happens when they face each other? One must fall.

But that isn't necessarily the end.

The Abomination may have power over death and undeath, but so does the Monster, in equally horrifying measure. As well, the Monster may slay a hundred knights, but there will always be a Dragon-slayer or a Giant-Killer to bring an end to them, or a priest to bind them beneath the earth...


But that isn't the end to their Mythos, is it?


When multiple legendary beings fight, one loses. But loss is part of legend, and while that legend endures, those that embody it can fight on.

Crunch:

My thought is that, when Mythos conflict, the loses Mythos should be weakened, but not the same way as a 'mere' human would be. The loser would lose a number of Mythos points. I'm thinking a quarter to a half of the points needed to buy the Mythos that beat them. If they don't have enough, that may truly be the end...but while their story is strong so are they.

Example:

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Our example is a Teramach with [Protaganism-Devouring Legend Singularity] killing a Bellator with [My Story Doesn't End Here]. In this case, the Bellator is on the losing end, so they lose Mythos points. Let's assume 1/4 of the dominant Mythos is lost. [Protaganism-Devouring Legend Singularity] is a Legendary Mythos, costing the Teramach 10,000 Mythos points. 1/4 of that is 2,500. If out Bellator has that many points unspent, they lose that 2,500, and their soul-preserving Mythos kicks in as usual. Their story withstood the loss...this time. But losing often will damage their story. So let's say that the Bellator didn't have enough Mythos points to counteract [Protaganism Devouring Singularity]. In this case, the situation goes as described by Xefas above takes place: the Belators soul appears as described, but this time the Teramach's story proved too strong for them...

This works for several purposes: it gives a submechanic to resolve conflicting Mythos abilities, a new tactical component to when you use those points, and something to use that currency on if you've already got all the Mythos power and Exellence powers you want or qualify for.

(Though I'm guessing it would take some refining.)

[Adam1949]

Winds: I like your method and idea, as it makes a lot of sense, especially since by around 14~ level and an 'average' amount of downtime (which is to say, you aren't CONSTANTLY going after the plot with no time to rest for the rest of your life and have at least a little bit of platinum to splurge) your average character will simply be swimming in Mythos Points. However, 1/4 seems a little low, considering that 2500 MP is literally equivalent to 2500 gp; a 7th level adventurer could cover that cost. Therefore, I think that it should instead be 1/2 of the Mythos Cost, in order to make sure that a Mythic character who wants to face another Myth can't simply take an afternoon's paycheck out of his wallet to avoid certain doom.

[Winds]

True. 1/2 is probably better.


EDIT: In any case, I will add this to the Mythos Discussion Thread.

[Xefas]

Xrfas, did you divorce yourself from your earlier homebrew such as the Primordialist? I'm pretty sure it used to be in your homebrew signature.

Define "divorce".

Or more soulmelds of the dreamer?

Aw mans, those were the best. Definitely gotta do something with them some day. Hmmm.

To the Cosmic Brewforge!

[Salbazier]

Define "divorce".

Well, 'abandon'? Just figure of speech, I was merely wander why you remove non-mythos homebrew from your homebrewer signature.

[Allnightmask]

Are we to act like they never happened? Because I have had much fun plugging them in my group's games.

[Xefas]

Well, 'abandon'? Just figure of speech, I was merely wander why you remove non-mythos homebrew from your homebrewer signature.

Are we to act like they never happened? Because I have had much fun plugging them in my group's games.

They're still out there, for people that want to use them. Most aren't getting any new content, most aren't intended to exist simultaneously in the same game with Mythos stuff (Teramach and Infernal Monster style, for example), and most I think are inferior in quality to my Mythos classes. When the forum table-codes change, I doubt I'll bother with going back and fixing the tables for all my old stuff.

But, I do have bookmarks for most homebrew I've made. I might put them in my extended signature, just with a disclaimer.

[Tempestfury]

So... does that mean the Kathodos might be finished some day?

[dragonjek]

Wind-And-Lightning Execution = Schrodinger's Murder?

Anyways, I wanted to know why the Showing Tons of Cleavage enhancement of Tavern-Clearing Cleave bit only gives the feat Cleave as a benefit... even though it's supposed to be an advanced upgrade. Even basics give at least two feats, or a feat and some special ability that accompanies it. It seems a little... off.

Love the class.

[Allnightmask]

I vote you put in all your oldies in your sig with a disclaimer. Do Eet

[Xefas]

So... does that mean the Kathodos might be finished some day?

Sure!

Wind-And-Lightning Execution = Schrodinger's Murder?

"You see, until the warrior sheathes his sword, the room full of mooks is simultaneously goresploded and ungoresploded." ~Dr. Bloodstab Fleshmangler, Professor of Slashonomics, Sigil Prep

Anyways, I wanted to know why the Showing Tons of Cleavage enhancement of Tavern-Clearing Cleave bit only gives the feat Cleave as a benefit... even though it's supposed to be an advanced upgrade. Even basics give at least two feats, or a feat and some special ability that accompanies it. It seems a little... off.

Feats are not equal benefits. Toughness and Improved Initiative, for instance, are not equal in value. Context matters. For a class with no abilities that synergize with Power Attack, the Power Attack feat is worth very little. For a class with lots of abilities that synergize with Power Attack, the Power Attack feat is worth a lot.

In the context of that specific Mythos, given the class it's in, given all the other abilities the Bellator has access to, assuming a basic aptitude in character construction, I have deemed the base Mythos plus the potential to gain an ability that grants an extra attack (and potentially a free 5ft step) when felling an opponent, to be sufficiently mechanically useful, and sufficiently indicative of the desired expression of the class's narrative, at the Fantastic level.

The fact that the ability to gain an extra attack (and potentially a free 5ft step) when felling an opponent is expressed as a "feat" is absolutely irrelevant to my judgment, save that it could potentially be used as a prerequisite for the Great Cleave and Three Mountains feats, which I have considered.

edit:

I vote you put in all your oldies in your sig with a disclaimer. Do Eet

Tomorrow, maybe. Going to bed.

[Durazno]

I vote you put in all your oldies in your sig with a disclaimer. Do Eet

Even the Spiral Warrior, so we can see how you've grown!

[Xefas]

Even the Spiral Warrior, so we can see how you've grown!

I think you've confused me with The Mage King?

[Durazno]

I am embarrassed to admit that I have done just that. I guess I got your stuff and his mixed up because he had disowned the Spiral Warrior, much like you were talking about leaving behind old homebrew.

Your description of the Wind and Lightning Execution as a goresplosion suggests that a Teremach could make fantastic use of the mythos if s/he could ever get his/her blood-soaked mitts on it. Imagine the scenes of horror that could explode around them at a split-second's notice!

[Tempestfury]

Can't wait to see them being finished.

[Winds]

I am embarrassed to admit that I have done just that. I guess I got your stuff and his mixed up because he had disowned the Spiral Warrior, much like you were talking about leaving behind old homebrew.

Your description of the Wind and Lightning Execution as a goresplosion suggests that a Teremach could make fantastic use of the mythos if s/he could ever get his/her blood-soaked mitts on it. Imagine the scenes of horror that could explode around them at a split-second's notice!

They already do that. It's called being a Teramach.

With [Joyful Cessation of Restraint] and [Nothing This Big Should Be So Fast] it becomes very similar. Minus the Schrodinger's Murder thing-but let's be honest, no Teramach worth his salt would *not* be killing with it. Particularly while raging. (Again, being a Teramach.)

[Salbazier]

But, I do have bookmarks for most homebrew I've made. I might put them in my extended signature, just with a disclaimer.

Thanks. I still like looking at them for ideas every now and then and bookmarking people's extended signature are more efficient than bookmarking each entries. There's also the difficulty of searching them without in-forum search feature.

[Durazno]

@Winds: I was picturing a character walking down a castle corridor at a steady pace, apparently calm, but all of the guards and attendants around him are inexplicably exploding into terrible flowers of gore and giblets. Nobody can raise a hand against him or escape because he triggers the quantum execution charges the moment anyone who sees him gets too far away or tries to attack - and then he's got a whole new set to mete out. The Calm Eye of a Storm of Carnage or something.

Come to think of it, a straight Bellator could pull that scene off just fine, but the terror sown and gore spattered seems like an effect that a more theatrically-minded Teremach would enjoy. (Surely they must exist - they have poets, after all.)

It sort of seems like an idea for my Teremach/Bellator "cage the beast within" PrC notion. My homebrew-fu is not strong, but it might be worth wading in for.

[Xefas]

Thanks. I still like looking at them for ideas every now and then and bookmarking people's extended signature are more efficient than bookmarking each entries. There's also the difficulty of searching them without in-forum search feature.

So, I started doing this (compiling them all in a word document before posting), but putting little thought-blurbs after each entry as I glance back over them, for those curious folk who enjoy watching DVD commentary tracks.

All I can say is that I brewed a lot more stuff than I remember. I keep finding new stuff and being like "Wait... what? OH I REMEMBER THIS. Man, I'm an idiot/genius." Also, it turns out that in the Summer of 2009, I did nothing but make a slew of Baator-themed Prestige Classes. O_o

[commander panda]

I think these are decent enough to post here, for now. Here are a ton of new excellencies. Enough to make the Bellator playable in its current form.


Excellencies

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"Stop Running Away, You Bloody Dandy!!!"
Prerequisite:-
You gain throw anything (CW) and brutal throw (CAd) as bonus feats.

In addition, the Bellator's throwing range is 30 feet+(5 feet/strength modifier) and two handed weapons can be thrown at the same rate as a light weapon. Power attack can be used as normal with a thrown weapon.

All Seeing Sentinel Eyes
prerequisites:-

The Bellator is a guard when she needs to be, and when she undertakes such a task none can pass her un-noticed.
Any time when the Bellator is standing still and not taking any actions, she may choose to benefit from dark-vision, tremor-sense and see invisibility out to a range of 100ft+10ft/wisdom modifier. The Bellator may not focus on anything other than her watching while using this ability, and will tune out any inconsequential distraction (such as the babbling of her comrades) as if it wasn't there.
Using this ability in combat takes a full round action and disallows swift or free actions. Obviously this provokes attacks of opportunity.
The Bellator may choose to ready an action one round, then activate her All Seeing Sentinel Eyes in the following round and keep it active while holding the action, but she will lose the excellencie's benefits when she releases the action.

"It's not the fall that kills you. It's the sudden stop at the end."
prerequisites: Improved Bullrush or Improved Grappling

When the Bellator tackles or drags an enemy off of a high drop, she has the option of holding on to him and using him to cushion her fall.
The enemy will protect the Bellator from falling damage equal to triple it's max hit point total (the maximum damage the body can take before simply breaking apart.) After that, damage is delt to the Bellator normally.

Ungental Man-Breaking Chastisement
prerequisites:-

The Bellator no longer takes a -4 penalty for dealing non lethal damage with a lethal weapon.
In edition, anyone she has non-lethally beat to half their total hit points, within the past 24 hours, can be cowed just with the threat of further punishment. The Bellator gains +10 on intimidate checks against such individuals.

"What's Mine Is Mine, And Now What's Yours Is Also Mine."
prerequisites:-

Whenever the Bellator downs an enemy, she may immediately loot a loose item from him as he falls in the dirt, as a free action. This is impossible unless the Bellator has at least one free hand.
The item can be a weapon, (held or sheathed, it doesn't matter. But items fixed to the enemy's body are impossible.) visible potions, wands, ammunition, holy symbols, money purses and anything else the DM deems reasonable.
The Bellator cannot loot her enemy's entire available inventory at once, but can only take one item at a time.

Heartless General's Aura
prerequisites:-
gain imperious command feat (DotU)

The Bellator is a warrior and a general; an unflinching killer and an unsmiling paragon of authority. When she gives an order, the soldiers she leads are driven by their twin notions of fear and unshakable respect to heights of skill and strength even they would have never conceived.

Whenever the Bellator issues an order to a subordinate (meaning a cohort, follower, hireling, or really anyone who considers her "the boss.") they benefit from a moral bonus to skill checks equal to half the Bellator's class level, and a +4 moral bonus to either str/dex/con or int/wis/cha, depending on whether the task assigned is fundamentally physical or mental in nature.
These benefits are only available only as long as the subordinate is actively working to carry out the Bellator's orders.

'Elementary' Battle Discernment
Prerequisites: 5 ranks in spot, int 13

For the Bellator, war is like the written tongue. It's meanings are hinted in the scars of crippled veterans and the ashes of burnt out wheat fields, but where the words are most clearly read is on field of battle, where whole stories are written of their own accord.
When the Bellator comes across a place where at least 2 creatures have been fighting she can spend 1d6 minutes inspecting the area, and discern the following details:
-The creature types of the combatants. This works on all creature types but outsiders and intelligent undead, since they usually have similar bodies and mannerisms to other, more common, creature types.
-Who won. This can be on either a personal scale between a few people, or on the scale of a full battle.
-A vague guess at the skill of the combatants. the Bellator is only able to discern the levels of the combatants within these categories.

Combatant Level/hit dice

Level 1-5

Level 6-10

Level 11-15

Level 16-20

Riding Lightning
Prerequisites: *insert future mounted mythos here. for now its mounted combat.*
Gain ride-by attack and spirited charge as bonus feats.

The Bellator is an expert rider, and knows better than most how to push a mount too, and beyond, it's limits. Whenever the Bellator is in the saddle, her mount gains a boost to it's base land speed (and flight/swim/climb speed, if it has any of those) equal to 10ft/Bellator level. The Bellator's mount also knows how to use its speed to pass by danger unmolested. The mount gains a bonus to AC and reflex saves equal to +1/10ft moved in it's previous turn, and gains the evasion class feature in any round that it has moved at least 40ft.

Adrenaline Fuelled Battle Sustenance
Prerequisites:-

The Bellator is fully aware of the simple truth that she who lives by the blade, must inevitably die by the blade. She understands it and accepts it, but by no means is she resigned to it. When she and her foes trade blow for blow, her will to thrive for one more day drives her beyond the reach of most mortal swords.

Whenever the Bellator downs an enemy in combat with a number of hit dice equal to or greater than her's she gains her class level in temporary hit points. When she down an enemy below with hit dice below her's, she gains half her level in temporary hit points.
These temporary hit points will stack on each other up to a limit of 10 applications. the hit points will remain until ten minutes after the encounter ends, at which point the Bellator comes down from her massive adrenaline rush and all the damage dealt comes rushing back to her.
This excellency will not trigger unless the combined hit dice of all enemies involved are at least equal to her own.

Perhaps You've Heard Of Me?
Prerequisites: Bellator level 5

Wherever the Bellator goes, her reputation precedes her. All NPC's she interacts with who could realistically have heard of her are moved one category up or down the attitude scale (it should usually be up, but there may be places where the Bellator is seen unfavourably.) If the Bellator has been especially helpful or active in a certain area, the people there may be moved up or down two categories, instead of one.
This effect can be negated by concealing the Bellator's identity, for instance by using a bluff or disguise check.

Also a new mythos. Because the fact that grapple submissions aren't in RAW makes me sad. It is of questionable balance, though. If anyone wants to wade in on that, I'd appreciate it.

Exceptional Mythos

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Ignore this. There is an updated version on pg 4.

"This isn't a mud hole. It's an operating table."
prerequisites: Improved Grappling

The Bellator has learned new and gruesome ways to manipulate, and deconstruct, her enemy's body in the midst of a grapple.
Whenever the Bellator has an opponent pinned, she has the option of A)choking them, or B) snapping their limbs.

If the Bellator wants to suffocate someone she needs to preform an opposed grapple check against her pinned opponent, then make successive grapple checks for a number of rounds equal to her opponents constitution modifier. After this point her opponent goes unconscious and begins drowning. If the Bellator wants to kill her opponent in this way, she must hold the choke until he dies.

If the Bellator wants to break a limb she must name a specific limb to break and make an opposed grapple check against her pinned opponent, then an opposed strength check. If she succeeds on both checks the limb is broken. The consequences vary, depending on what is broken.

limb/appendage	consequences
Arm	Arm cannot be used. Opponent take a -6 on all grapple checks, -4 on physical skill checks, and cannot wield any kind of equipment with that arm. These penalties stack.
Leg	Assuming a bipedal creature, they are reduced to crawling at a rate of 5 ft/round. If the damaged creature has four legs or more, their movement speed is reduced to an amount based on the percentage of legs left. So a spider with a 40ft move speed and a broken leg loses 5ft from their move speed (40ft/8 legs= 5ft reduction/leg)
Wing	Creature is unable to fly.

[ben-zayb]

Heh. First in a long while to manually head over to the brew section, and this is the awesomeness that I see!

I agree with the complement that this class is significantly more flexible in terms of character concepts than the other three, but it's no slack either in terms of mechanical versatility.

I especially like the Underdog-Training Montage, but I have some clarifications. Firstly, is the intent to not restrict it to Fighter Bonus Feats? Related to the previous question, is the intent to teach ANY feat, ignoring prerequisites by the students? I could make a case that the montage was itself the specifically way to bypass, but I had to check.

If that was indeed the intent, I'll be keeping an eye on this to stat up Captain Li Shang and teach level 1 commoners how to Be a Man.

EDIT: Another question, this time about the Adroit Hand-Slapping Consternation. Was the intent of this Mythos to work on Wraithstrike-d attacks as well as specific touch attack maneuvers?

[Xefas]

I especially like the Underdog-Training Montage, but I have some clarifications. Firstly, is the intent to not restrict it to Fighter Bonus Feats? Related to the previous question, is the intent to teach ANY feat, ignoring prerequisites by the students? I could make a case that the montage was itself the specifically way to bypass, but I had to check.

If that was indeed the intent, I'll be keeping an eye on this to stat up Captain Li Shang and teach level 1 commoners how to Be a Man.

Until I have an idea of the extent to which being able to teach a feat that bypasses all prerequisites could be abused, I'm going to stick with the idea that your students do need to meet the prerequisites of the feat they're trying to learn, as normal. That may well change, though - if it does, I'll add in a line about bypassing prerequisites into the Mythos' text. Doing research now. On the plus side, the more broken feats seem to tend towards spellcasting, but a Bellator is unlikely to have, say, Craft Contingent Spell, and thus be able to distribute it at will to low level mooks. I feel like the various Leadership feats might be a problem, but putting in a proviso about "You can't teach characters feats that give them more characters" is simple enough.

EDIT: Another question, this time about the Adroit Hand-Slapping Consternation. Was the intent of this Mythos to work on Wraithstrike-d attacks as well as specific touch attack maneuvers?

Well, the first part of the feat allows you to make attacks of opportunity against touch-attacks utilizing an unarmed limb. This would function against, say, a Monk using Wraithstrike'd punches. The second part lets you redirect spells being delivered via touch attack (like Shocking Grasp, Shivering Touch, etc). Wrathstrike, in this case, is enhancing the attack, but is not being delivered by it, so this part would not function.

[WhatsWithCanada]

I think this is a great system and a wonderful class!

There is one small detail I noticed about Tavern-Clearing Cleave though that no one has pointed out:

"When you make a melee attack modified by your Power Attack feat, you may choose one creature adjacent to your original target that is also within your threatened area (if your Reach is only 5ft, you may also target creatures that are in diagonally adjacent spaces to you, even though you don't technically threaten them)."

Characters already threaten all adjacent squares including diagonals.

Per SRD AoO rules:

Attacks Of Opportunity
Sometimes a combatant in a melee lets her guard down. In this case, combatants near her can take advantage of her lapse in defense to attack her for free. These free attacks are called attacks of opportunity.

Threatened Squares
You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack, even when it is not your action. Generally, that means everything in all squares adjacent to your space (including diagonally). An enemy that takes certain actions while in a threatened square provokes an attack of opportunity from you.

Thus, you can remove that bit entirely and make a much more concise ability.

[Avalon®]

Hey Xef,

Mind if I attempt to make an epic progression for the Bellator as well as perhaps some new exalted and sempiternal mythos?

[Xefas]

Thus, you can remove that bit entirely and make a much more concise ability.

Thanks for the catch. Should be fixed now.

Mind if I attempt to make an epic progression for the Bellator as well as perhaps some new exalted and sempiternal mythos?

I don't mind at all. Do as you please.